Top 10 Centres 2000-2009

[Andrew]

Link

1. Tim Duncan
2. Shaquille O'Neal
3. Dwight Howard
4. Ben Wallace
5. Jermaine O'Neal
6. Zydrunas Ilgauskas
7. Amar'e Stoudemire
8. Yao Ming
9. David Robinson
10. Alonzo Mourning

Even putting aside the fact there's players on there that really should be in the Power Forward list, that's a pretty messed up list. Ben Wallace over Ama're and Yao?

My alternate list (excluding Duncan and Amar'e, who I had on my alternate power forwards list):

1. Shaquille O'Neal
2. Yao Ming
3. Dwight Howard
4. Jermaine O'Neal
5. David Robinson
6. Alonzo Mourning
7. Dikembe Mutombo
8. Ben Wallace
9. Zydrunas Ilgauskas
10. Marcus Camby

However, I'm not set in the order outside the top three and you could probably make a case of Jermaine O'Neal being on the power forward list instead.

[kevC]

I think Ben Wallace and Jermaine O'Neal should definitely not be over Yao. Dwight also arguably. I would throw in Brad Miller somewhere in there too.

[Lamrock]

Jermaine "The Drain" shouldn't even make the list. Was the whole point of him having players at their "bigger" positions to make the Center list less brief?

[Modifly]

I saw this coming. I was expecting Yao to be low on this list, but not as low as #8 and also below Ben Wallace.

[NovU]

Andrew's list makes more sense and yeah, especially out of that list I don't know what made him think Tim Duncan is a natural center.

[Fresh8]

I don't know how you could rank Jermaine O'Neal and/or Zydranus Ilgauskas over Yao Ming and Amare Stoudamire...

[Null17]

Andrew's list makes more sense and yeah, especially out of that list I don't know what made him think Tim Duncan is a natural center.

Duncan's position is a perrenial debate on the spurs forums. One side argues that he plays center and that Timmy just likes to be called a PF since he feels he can do more than what a usually center is expected to do. Another side just agrees with what Timmy wants plus that he's listed as PF despite having a natural PF listed at the C ever since Robinson retired.

[NovU]

I am very well aware of that. The thing is he's been a PF on the first day as a rookie and throughout most of his career. Not only he's been listed as a PF all his career long but has been an All-Star as PF all his career. More importantly he's more known as a PF by most people. Whoever wrote this list obviously has a different standard from most of us here and I just don't like people making it an issue.

[Andrew]

Both sides of the debate have a point, but given that he's consistently listed as a power forward/centre in assorted profiles, as a power forward in the boxscores and on the All-Star ballot and played power forward alongside a few legitimate centres on the Spurs is enough to warrant him being labelled a power forward for the purpose of lists such as these.

It's also a bit more flattering to him when placing him amongst the all-time greats. He runs a close race with Karl Malone for being the best power forward in NBA history, but as great as Duncan is the all-time competition at centre is a bit tougher.

[benji]

This shows why the whole PG/SG/SF/PF/C crap is stupid as hell. Duncan plays help defender if the Spurs have another player to guard a post up player (they did this a lot with Rasho, and often wanted Robinson closer to the basket to rebound as he aged) but for the last few years Duncan, yes has still been listed as forward, but has actually been the "center" as they almost always matched him against the other teams starting center since Oberto could play higher and help, same thing with Matt Bonner being the "center" last two years, and Duncan could be defender of last chance.

Jermaine O'Neal has pretty much always played "center" in reality outside of his time alongside Brad Miller. When playing with Foster, he stayed at home on the big down low, and Foster was the high big defender and help defender.

That said, even if you're counting Duncan as a center, I really can't, despite having had sex with him three times, pick Duncan over Shaq. Shaq was the best player in the league to start the decade at a Jordanesque level of not just being the best player in the league but completely dominating a position that was weakened during his time of domination and racked up titles taking advantage of this. He's slipped as he's aged and stopped keeping any kind of shape but he's still be all-star quality since then, stayed a starter and key player, got another title and has a good shot at one this year. Duncan's a god, and the 2003 liberation of the NBA was incredible, but Shaq alone basically dictated the championship for a while. (And nearly did it in 2004 except the rest of team was horseshit, Malone and Payton fell apart, and Tayshaun Prince eliminated Kobe in yet another Finals collapse.))

My two minute method, using who B-R lists as a center.

Rank	Player	P/36	R/36	B/36	PER	ORtg	WS
1.	Shaquille O'Neal	24.0	11.0	2.2	26.5	113	101.6
2.	Yao Ming	21.1	10.2	2.1	23.0	112	64.2
3.	Brad Miller	14.3	9.3	0.9	18.0	115	68.3
4.	Marcus Camby	11.9	12.4	3.1	18.5	108	60.3
5.	Dwight Howard	17.3	12.6	2.0	21.2	111	52.3
6.	Zydrunas Ilgauskas	17.9	9.6	2.2	19.2	107	50.7
7.	David Robinson	16.5	10.6	2.6	21.9	112	40.2
8.	Dikembe Mutombo	9.7	12.5	2.7	16.2	113	47.0
9.	Tyson Chandler	10.5	11.6	1.8	15.3	111	42.5
10.	Alonzo Mourning	17.7	9.3	3.7	20.2	107	31.3

With Vlade Divac, Erick Dampier and Rasho Nesterovic bringing up the rear.

Ben Wallace is listed as forward on B-R so I left him there, he'd effectively tie Miller for third. (One, the best offensive center of the decade, the other the best defensive is my reasoning for this. (The quick measure I use puts Ben ahead by an amount smaller than Lamrock's penis.)

At least one person mentioned Brad Miller here. He plays very well in college, goes undrafted. Is regularly a top five, often top three center, year in year out, near gets killed by Shaq, and he's still left off lists like these.

[Valor]

How is Tim Duncan a better Center then Shaq?
and as everyone said, BEN FRIGGIN WALLACE OVER AMARE AND YAO?
The guy making these lists must be on dope, putting people in the wrong positions and getting the order mixed up like that...

[Martti.]

I think Wallace deserves to up so high. 4 defensive player of the year awards + 1 championship ring. (Also 4-time All-Star) So in terms of achievements, he's above Yao and Amare. His average of 15.4 rebounds per game looks almost unachievable now.

I'd take Duncan and Amare off this list, as both prefer the PF spot.

[Andrew]

I've certainly overlooked Brad Miller. If we're counting Ben Wallace as a power forward, I'll definitely strike him from my list and put Miller in there somewhere.

[benji]

Everyone overlooks Brad Miller, it's why a 17/9 on 63% shooting guy went undrafted out of college.

For Wallace, I just went with the B-R position.

[jettdaking!]

no Mutombo? Amare and Ilgauskas should deserve higher. and they should remove Robinson in that list for Marcus Camby or Erick Dampier

[The X]

Everyone overlooks Brad Miller, it's why a 17/9 on 63% shooting guy went undrafted out of college.

For Wallace, I just went with the B-R position.

It's because he didn't have the athleticism & upside of a guy like Jerome Moiso

[Andrew]

no Mutombo? Amare and Ilgauskas should deserve higher. and they should remove Robinson in that list for Marcus Camby or Erick Dampier

The Admiral deserves to be there. I'd remove the players who are more widely classified as power forwards before anyone else.

[jettdaking!]

hmm david only played three seasons that decade, with none of them reaching 15ppg. but if team leadership is a category, yep, admiral could be there.

[benji]

His minutes and possessions were cut to give to other players, but he never declined like a Ewing, Olajuwon or others since he knew when to bail. His last year was the only one when he couldn't be an All-Star and he still, especially in the playoffs, when he needed to, like Steve Kerr, tapped in his old self and delivered. His last game was 13 points (75% from the field) and 17 rebounds with two blocks in just 31 minutes. Few players end their careers with such performances.

[jettdaking!]

yeah, like Reggie Miller's. i hope Kelly Dwyer could make a "Top 10 Best Last Games of the Decade". i'll sure wait for that.

[benji]

That would be a lot of research, and most of them would not be good games. You have things like Jordan's 15 points on 40% shooting.

Reggie did have a great last final game but sucked otherwise for most of that series. 27 points on 69% FG%, 50% from three.

I have a feeling the "best last final games" would be a couple of great finishes and a bunch of "should have retried earlier" games. Reggie and Robinson are exceptions.

[air gordon]

His minutes and possessions were cut to give to other players, but he never declined like a Ewing, Olajuwon or others since he knew when to bail. His last year was the only one when he couldn't be an All-Star and he still, especially in the playoffs, when he needed to, like Steve Kerr, tapped in his old self and delivered. His last game was 13 points (75% from the field) and 17 rebounds with two blocks in just 31 minutes. Few players end their careers with such performances.

it was a nice hurrah even if it was against a poor Nets frontcourt

what's to overlook about Brad Miller? once he left the bulls (and started to get in shape) people started to find out he's a very skilled player on offense. he's not a great defender or rebounder. maybe there's this myth he does both well because he plays physical 8 gives hard fouls

[Kenny]

I personally think Ben Wallace deserves to be ahead of Yao on that list. Earlier in the decade the pistons were a force and a big part of that was Big Ben's defense, where as Yao has been a first round playoffs casualty until last year. Plus he's been extremely injury prone himself. In his prime, Big Ben > Yao

[Andrew]

Big Ben is/was almost completely lacking at the offensive end though whereas Yao has been capable of having an impact at both ends of the floor. Yao has also appeared in 77 games or more in four of his seven NBA seasons, though in those other three years he did admittedly see action in less than 60 regular season games in each campaign.

[Rip32]

You know, people always say Jermaine O'neal is so terrible, but when that dude had two knees that weren't jello he was a very very good player.

* NBA All-Star:[26] 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007
* All-NBA:[26]

* Second Team: 2004
* Third Team: 2002, 2003

* NBA Most Improved Player Award:[26] 2002
* NBA Magic Johnson Award: 2004