808's & Heartbreak = Fail (The Kanye Thread)

[Dramacydal]

Lol it's not ignorant is based upon reasons why some people oppose the album
The way he sings isn't as bad -__- [admitting he's no Trey Songz of course]

They way you put it was pretty ignorant. I don't think I heard anyone in this thread say he didn't like the album because of the beats and that he only listens to the beats anyway. It's just ridiculous to say that those who don't like an album that you like are too dumb to understand Kanye's simplistic lyrics and actually never care about contents and meanings. That's ignorant and if this wasn't the internet and someone who knew me said this in my face I'd also find it pretty offensive. Also not being able to accept the fact that many people can't stand an album that you like whithout them automatically being wrong is ignorant and kind of retarded too.

But there's a different tone set in each song "Paranoid," "Love Lockdown," "Street Lights," "Robocop," "Pinocchio Story" etc.
So the ways he sings isn't bad unless you're referring to "Bad News" which does sound like his voice is worn out

Because there's a different tone set in each song the way he sings is good? What? I don't see what the one thing has got to do with the other.

And apart from that there is nothing special or innovative to his new music so stop acting like he's the embodiment of creativity.

And trying something new is not meaning he originated in it,
Trying something brand new out of his section,
Show's how versatile one person can be because it's like this...
You're going to say a brand new producers beat is bad because it sounds like a Pharrel knockoff?
because he didn't originate in it and needs to be more creative?
ITS INNOVATIVE TO HIS TALENT/MUSIC

That's way off and nowhere near what I said. If you followed the thread carefully you would have noticed that the paragraph I quoted from one of my previous posts was a reply to some people trying to sell the album as innovative and something new. Now in your case if you just used common sense, you would notice that you could exchange "new"/"innovative" with the "different" that you mentioned and the point of my post would remain the same. Apart from that, whether it's new or just different doesn't even matter. My point is that he experimented and failed. And you just gotta accept the fact that a lot of people, who are not too dumb to judge properly, think that way.

Auto-Tune is a hell of a program... LOL
Point blank and simple not everyone who doesn't know how to sing uses it
But it still leaves a nice a effect on your vocals

That's what you think. There's like a million people out there thinking it simply sounds terrible and is used to cover up the lack of skills/talent/a beautiful voice/etc. And I bet that some of them even care about contents and meanings.

you think lil wayne is not a good rapper? who in your opinion is good these days then?

This is a joke, right? You can't be serious daring me to mention better rappers than Wayne.

[Al Ka Pwn]

I am asking you who you think is a good rapper these days. can you answer a simple question?

[Dramacydal]

^ Sure.

But I'll just name a few off the top of my head because mentioning everyone that's better than Wayne would take hours.

Cormega
Tragedy Khadafi
Black Thought (The Roots)
Talib Kweli
NAS
Slug (Atmosphere)
AZ
Vinnie Paz
Celph Titled
Immortal Technique
Deacon, Natti (CunninLynguists)
Bun B
MURS
Lupe Fiasco
Wu-Tang Clan (except U-God)
Common
Apathy
Freeway
Q-Tip
Mos Def
Jay-Z
Mr. Lif
Esoteric
Scarface
MF Doom
Devin The Dude
John Robinson
...

I think I need to stop right here before this gets out of hand and I waste too much of my time.

[Al Ka Pwn]

some of those are relevant these days. the others are mostly indepent artists.
only one I never heard before is john robinson.

[Dramacydal]

John Robinson is formerly known as Lil' Sci of Scienz Of Life, you might know him under that name...

Anyways, I don't get why you point out that some of them are "relevant" and that most of them are independent artists? What's that got to do with anything? And what's your definition of relevance? Commercial success and mass appeal? That's not what hip-hop is about.

All of the artists I mentioned are relevant. As long as you're skilled and talented and make a contribution to the rap genre with your music you're relevant. As long as hip-hop heads talk about you and your music you're relevant. As long as your lyrics are on point and you got something to say you're relevant.

[Al Ka Pwn]

all I wanted was to know why you don't like lil wayne and you answered that question.

I mentioned that only a few of the ones you named are relevant, because I asked who you think is a good rapper these days. if I had asked who are some good rappers, then I wouldn't have done that. most of your answer was irrelevant to the question.

I spoke of the rappers being independent artists to show that I have some basic knowledge on the subject at hand.

have you heard that song of apathy on the beat of the whites stripes' It Takes A Seven Nation Army To Hold Us Back? that is one of my favs by an indie artist.

[Dramacydal]

I mentioned that only a few of the ones you named are relevant, because I asked who you think is a good rapper these days. if I had asked who are some good rappers, then I wouldn't have done that. most of your answer was irrelevant to the question.

No it wasn't.

Cormega dropped a DVD and soundtrack in 2007 and is about to release another album very soon
Tragedy Khadafi dropped his last album in 2008 (I think, or late 2007)
Black Thought (The Roots) dropped their last album in 2008
Talib Kweli dropped his last album in 2007 and has been featured on various albums by other artists since then
NAS dropped his last album in 2008
Slug (Atmosphere) the same
AZ the same, and he's about to release another one soon
Vinnie Paz the same
Celph Titled has been on the AOTP album in 2007
Immortal Technique released a mixtape in 2008 and is about to release another album
Deacon, Natti (CunninLynguists) dropped their last album in 2007
Bun B dropped in 2008 and is now working on another UGK album
MURS dropped in 2008
Lupe Fiasco released an album in 2007 and will release on in 2009
Wu-Tang Clan (except U-God) dropped the last group album in 2007 and a lot of members dropped solo albums recently and are about to release more CDs soon
Common just released one at the end of 2008
Apathy AOTP album and last solo album in 2007 but steadily putting out new tracks on the net
Freeway just dropped Month Of Madness a minute ago
Q-Tip album of the year in 2008
Mos Def released his last album in 2006 (aight, I give you that one)
Jay-Z released his last album in 2007 I think, but he's always doing something constantly being on the news/tv/etc.
Mr. Lif last album in 2007 but also releasing another one in 2009
Esoteric last album in 2008 also releasing one in 2009
Scarface last album in 2008
MF Doom last album in 2005 I think, but releasing one in 2009 and been producing a lot of newer stuff
Devin The Dude last album in 2008
John Robinson 2008, 2009

How on earth are they irrelevant to the rap game these days?

I spoke of the rappers being independent artists to show that I have some basic knowledge on the subject at hand.

Aight, that's cool. I see.

have you heard that song of apathy on the beat of the whites stripes' It Takes A Seven Nation Army To Hold Us Back? that is one of my favs by an indie artist.

Hell yeah, it's really nice. Also gotta love his parody of Love Lockdown. ("mother fucker you ain't no robot!" )

[Al Ka Pwn]

ok they might be active, but how many people besides hardcore fans even know about a lot of those artists.
I mean I recorded a rap album myself, but only a few people know about it, so I am not relevant.

of those you are talking about I like black thought, nas, it, cunninglynguists, bun b, murs,
wu-tang, apathy, scarface.

mf doom is one of the best ever as far as I am concererned.
and I like lupe's songs, but he was rude to a friend of mine at a concert so I think he's an asshole.

[Doobie]

I don't see why there is an argument going on in this thread . Who people think is a good rapper or a bad rapper is all a matter of the opinion of who you like.

[Oznogrd]

I agree with dramacydal's evaluation:
If you have something to say, and you can still make bearable music to listen to: you're relevant.
The problem has become people worrying about who's legit, who's indie, who's mainstream. Who gives a shit? I dont care if the fucker recorded an album on his computer in a pirated version of Garageband if it sounds good.

Btw: I listened to 808's a few more times...it hasnt grown on me in the least. Fuck hype.

[shadowgrin]

Even Stephen Hawking is more entertaining to listen to than the shite Kanye released.

[Fresh8]

I know it's been out for a while... but who's heard Keri hilson rocking it with Ne-yo and Kanye? Love Knocks You Down is a pretty good track. Kanye sounds normal again in it too!

[jettdaking!]

have you heard that song of apathy on the beat of the whites stripes' It Takes A Seven Nation Army To Hold Us Back? that is one of my favs by an indie artist.

Hell yeah, it's really nice. Also gotta love his parody of Love Lockdown. ("mother fucker you ain't no robot!" )

your right, AOTP hates Kanye:

phpBB [video]

CHECK OUT VINNIE'S VERSE.

I know it's been out for a while... but who's heard Keri hilson rocking it with Ne-yo and Kanye? Love Knocks You Down is a pretty good track. Kanye sounds normal again in it too!

oh yeah, Kanye should leave Pop and stick to rap. that's the reason why he's so succesful

[TheOriginalCandyMan]

Kanye West has always been in pop rap
He's just a little more "real" than the average rapper these days

[jettdaking!]

kanye is good in making influential rap. he is like a modern day Tupac (Ghetto Gospel = Jesus Walks ?)

[Lamrock]

The only Kanye song that will ever be influential is Stronger, as its the best workout song, even if its about absolutely nothing. If you interpret Kanye's lyrics as inspirational, you're missing the point. I'm an atheist, but "Jesus Walks" is one of my favorite Kanye songs because its catchy as fuck.

[jettdaking!]

Lamrock, even if it's off-topic, and you could call me being nosy, but we should all have a God to believe in ... y don't u have one?

[Lamrock]

Well why should I believe in something that is completely unproven and illogical? To answer your question, it is because it makes no sense to me. Its difficult to believe in something that I find absurd. I'm not in 12 step, so I don't know why I would need to believe in a higher power.

[jettdaking!]

okay, i respect your decision... everyone has their on opinion about the way things go and that's nothing to object nor debate... but, if you change your mind... it's never too late to be with God.

[shadowgrin]

okay, i respect your decision... everyone has their on opinion about the way things go and that's nothing to object nor debate... but, if you change your mind... it's never too late to be with God.

Way to respect his decision with that last statement. As if you're giving him a deadline or ultimatum. Asshole.

[Dramacydal]

kanye is good in making influential rap. he is like a modern day Tupac (Ghetto Gospel = Jesus Walks ?)

Holy shit.

okay, i respect your decision... everyone has their on opinion about the way things go and that's nothing to object nor debate... but, if you change your mind... it's never too late to be with God.

Way to respect his decision with that last statement. As if you're giving him a deadline or ultimatum. Asshole.

[hova-]

kanye is good in making influential rap. he is like a modern day Tupac (Ghetto Gospel = Jesus Walks ?)

Holy shit.

If you ask me than Kanye really has influenced Hip Hop with his beats back in the days. Whilst never being a good rapper, he really was (and still has the skills to be) one of the sickest producers in the game. Sadly he decided to phase his music style more away from Hip Hop (although I really like tracks on Graduation as well as 808's & Heartbreak - call me a clueless fuck if you want ).

College Dropout and Late Registration have some of the best soul-influenced Hip Hop beats I have ever listened to and I totally love that. Other good example among thousands of Kanye-produced songs are Common's album "Be" as well as "Finding Forever".

[Fresh8]

College Dropout is my favorite album that he's ever released... it all went downhill from there...

And Hova, do you like Universal Mind Control?

[Lamrock]

I wouldn't say it went downhill from there. Late Registration refined the College Dropout sound and in my opinion was a better, more cohesive album. Graduation was probably the worst of the trilogy, but it had the best singles by far. 808s isn't part of the rap canon.

[Fresh8]

I liked that real soulful sound from College Dropout. I'm not saying Late Registration was bad, it was good but not as good as College Dropout. But kudos to Kanye for experimenting. I did like how he included horns and strings in his tracks. College Dropout was the best, Late Registration second, and Graduation third. I was anxiously waiting for that fourth and final album to complete his 'story' but too bad he did 808s instead... maybe one day he will release the 'fourth album'.