Eastern Conference Finals Match-up: (1) Cavs vs. (3) Magic

[Andrew]

That's because me and Killer Crossover aka OG isn't the same person .
We have different opinions .

I realise that. That's why I quoted and responded to you both seperately.

[C-77]

Cleveland are now on a must-win situation right now but i feel that if they win game 4 they'll also win game 5 and possibly finish it in 6

[MikeMan™]

Conspiracy Theory :

The NBA wants the Lakers-Cleveland Match-up to gain more profit .
NBA officiating makes me sick .

Dwight Clearly Blocked LeBron's 3pt Attempt , NBA refs reviewed it but they just reviewed it just to know if it's a 3pt attempt or not . On the Replay Howard clearly blocked it , why didn't they changed it !? They're hoping the Cavs would come back !
I know this sounds crazy but really I'm feeling this .
The NBA wants the Kobe-LeBron Match-up in the Finals .

[Andrew]

I haven't seen the clip yet, but the replays currently can't overturn a block that's been ruled a foul as far as I'm aware. Thus, they can't go back on a foul call (right or wrong), so they have to live with it. They can onyl review whether it was a three, whether a player stepped out of bounds, whether a shot came before the clock expired etc but they're not overturning fouls or out of bounds calls or anything like that...yet.

But having said that, if the NBA truly is trying to rig the Playoffs to get a Cavs/Lakers Finals, they're doing a pretty lousy job by letting the Magic go up 2-1.

[MikeMan™]

I haven't seen the clip yet, but the replays currently can't overturn a block that's been ruled a foul as far as I'm aware. Thus, they can't go back on a foul call (right or wrong), so they have to live with it. They can onyl review whether it was a three, whether a player stepped out of bounds, whether a shot came before the clock expired etc but they're not overturning fouls or out of bounds calls or anything like that...yet.

But having said that, if the NBA truly is trying to rig the Playoffs to get a Cavs/Lakers Finals, they're doing a pretty lousy job by letting the Magic go up 2-1.

Joey Crawford's Crew did a lousy job .
The NBA is overhyping LeBron . . . Did you watch SportsCenter !? They didn't even show LeBron's Shot being blocked !
They're doing this to make the people forget about the Controversial Call .

[Lean]

Seen the game, bad game for Hedo. And that LeBron three shouldn't be ruled as a foul. When the camera focused of the referees discussing, I thought they would reverse the call.

[Killer Crossover aka OG]

Duh !? one is in Iso and the other one is in a catch and shoot situation

Like the Chewbacca defense, this does not make sense.

You know Andrew the last sec. shots are always lucky hits in my opinion, but still love those lucky hits and give the team more moral for the next game King versus 4th Quarter-Player

Hedo Turkoglu has made a few last second shots in his career to win games as well. Are those lucky shots too? By your reasoning they would be, yet the "LeBron is lucky, Hedo is clutch" argument is inconsistent with that.

Andrew you say clutch (skillful) and I call lucky, two various opinions so and I think they needs in every game luck and lucky hits. Where is the problem ?
I know Hedo´s two last sec. shots in his career he is good from the 3Points-Line, it was skillful-lucky hits for me

That's because me and Killer Crossover aka OG isn't the same person .
We have different opinions .
Could've been 3-0 Guys , Cleveland ( LeBron ) was just lucky ( Game 2 ) .

Haha yes we have different opinions but in Baketball counts one "Brotherhood"

Cool 2-1 for my Magic-Team Hedo was very bad from the field therefore very good from the freethrowline and makes his double double with 10 rebounds

[Maaarf]

i didn't understand a word you just said. please remove hedo's dick from your mouth and try again

[MikeMan™]

i didn't understand a word you just said. please remove hedo's dick from your mouth and try again

Poor , Poor Maaarf , you've been brainwashed by the NBA .
Look around you . After the game I went to NBA.com , the first image I saw was LeBron spotting up against Pietrus . why !?
Dwight or any Magic player should've been in that cover . They won right !? ( Well they changed it about 10 mins . but still why James !? )
and you'll never see the Gortat blocking James highlight or Courtney Lee dunking over him .
All that you'll see is the pretty highlights of Bron .
Poor Orlando , David Stern wants the Cavs in the Finals for more profit .
It's Orlando vs Cleveland and the NBA .

Haha yes we have different opinions but in Basketball counts one "Brotherhood"

Peace Up Bro ! Our Orlando Magic should've been up 3-0 by now . Even though it's 5 vs 8 in court the Magic still manages to be up 2-1 .

[Oakrhum]

Should have been 3-0 if not for the magical, miraculous and far-fetched heave of LeBron.

[MikeMan™]

Should have been 3-0 if not for the magical, miraculous and far-fetched heave of LeBron.

That " Lucky Shot " against Orlando was compared to MJ's " The Shot " against Cleveland in the 80's .
Shame . . .
Brainwashing Continues . . .

[Andrew]

Andrew you say clutch (skillful) and I call lucky, two various opinions so and I think they needs in every game luck and lucky hits. Where is the problem ?
I know Hedo´s two last sec. shots in his career he is good from the 3Points-Line, it was skillful-lucky hits for me

There's no problem, but I still don't see how when Hedo hits a cluch shot it means he's a great clutch performer, and when LeBron does the same he's lucky. To me, they both demonstrated poise under pressure and knocked down big shots they are capable of hitting. If there's luck involved with one, then there's certainly luck involved in the other. Personally, I see it as they both got the job done when called upon. Unfortunately for the Magic, LeBron did it last in that game which meant the Cavs won.

As far as lucky shots go, Ralph Sampson's shot in the 1986 Western Conference Finals and Devin Harris' half-court heave against the Sixers come to mind. Whatever "luck" you want to ascribe to LeBron's game winner, he still got a good look and a decent attempt up, within his range. Sampson's overheard shot or Harris' heave are pretty much hope-for-the-best shots. For me that's what constitutes a lucky shot, but I guess on that we may have to agree to disagree.

[MikeMan™]

Ok here's a demo for you Mr. Andrew :

Let's take MJ as an example :
1 . Last 10 seconds MJ wants to have the ball ( that means he's clutch 'coz he wants the ball in the last seconds ) he sets up for an Isolation , last 5 seconds he makes a move ( a two-dribble spot-up move ) he makes it . That's not a lucky shot .

2. Last 1 second , coach designs an inbound play and MJ wants to take the last shot ( again , that means he's clutch 'coz he wants the ball in the last seconds ). The Coach sets up a Shuffle Play , MJ got the ball , heaves it up with the defender all over him , but still makes it . Now that's a lucky shot . ( Clutch-Lucky )


What I Mean is :

Clutch Players makes his own play at the last seconds and wants to take the last shot . ( MJ , Kobe , LJ sometimes )
Clutch-Lucky Players are made by Coaches via Set Plays . ( Robert Horry , Jerry West . . . etc . )

Some Clutch players just get lucky sometimes and that what makes them Clutch-Lucky Players ( LeBron in Game 2 )
LeBron - He's a Clutch Player definitely no arguement about that but in Game 2 he was a Clutch-Lucky Player .
( Just in Game 2 )

[Oakrhum]

Clutch-Lucky Players are made by Coaches via Set Plays . ( Robert Horry , Jerry West . . . etc . )

Robert Horry is just a Clutch-Lucky player? I beg to disagree. He did it not just once, not twice but all throughout the course of his career.

and your "Clutch-Lucky Player"..

and Andrew, don't forget Derek Fisher's 0.04 shot. That's also a hope-for-the-best throw or what MikeMan™ call them, clutch-lucky player.

[Andrew]

What I Mean is :

Clutch Players makes his own play at the last seconds and wants to take the last shot . ( MJ , Kobe , LJ sometimes )
Clutch-Lucky Players are made by Coaches via Set Plays . ( Robert Horry , Jerry West . . . etc . )

Some Clutch players just get lucky sometimes and that what makes them Clutch-Lucky Players ( LeBron in Game 2 )
LeBron - He's a Clutch Player definitely no arguement about that but in Game 2 he was a Clutch-Lucky Player .
( Just in Game 2 )

I still don't see how players are "clutch lucky" if the play is drawn up for them. They still have to go out and get the job done and make the shot that's presumably within their range; more to the point, the play is being drawn up for them because they've proven an ability to knock down shots at crucial times, which is pretty much the definition of clutch (or certainly a part of being clutch). As for your first example using Michael Jordan, your definition of "lucky" is certainly more what I have in mind where the shot has an extremely high degree of difficulty, though the examples I cited are more the kind of ones that come to mind when I think of lucky game winners.

In any case, thanks for elaborating on your point of view, I do see what you mean now even if I see it a different way.

[MikeMan™]

Clutch-Lucky Players are made by Coaches via Set Plays . ( Robert Horry , Jerry West . . . etc . )

Robert Horry is just a Clutch-Lucky player? I beg to disagree. He did it not just once, not twice but all throughout the course of his career.

and your "Clutch-Lucky Player"..

and Andrew, don't forget Derek Fisher's 0.04 shot. That's also a hope-for-the-best throw or what MikeMan™ call them, clutch-lucky player.

Did he made his own shot !?
Nope , he was just always at the right time and at the right place . ( Portland v Lakers )
Well , he may be an exception due to his performance in the 94 ( Houston v New York ) and
05 Finals( Detroit v San Antonio ) .
Like what I said , Clutch Players sometimes becomes clutch lucky players .

LeBron - He's a Clutch Player definitely no arguement about that but in Game 2 he was a Clutch-Lucky Player .

But that Derek Fisher Catch-n-Shoot with 0.4 seconds left Shot is definitely a lucky shot !

[Maaarf]

i didn't understand a word you just said. please remove hedo's dick from your mouth and try again

Poor , Poor Maaarf , you've been brainwashed by the NBA .
Look around you . After the game I went to NBA.com , the first image I saw was LeBron spotting up against Pietrus . why !?
Dwight or any Magic player should've been in that cover . They won right !? ( Well they changed it about 10 mins . but still why James !? )
and you'll never see the Gortat blocking James highlight or Courtney Lee dunking over him .
All that you'll see is the pretty highlights of Bron .
Poor Orlando , David Stern wants the Cavs in the Finals for more profit .
It's Orlando vs Cleveland and the NBA .

ooookay thanks for the lecture that no one asked you to give, what does this have to do with anything i said? lol

[MikeMan™]

Maaarf - Drunk Or Just Plain Stupid !?

[Oakrhum]

Actually, I agree with Maaarf. Your point is right, Mike but it does not have any connection with what Maaaf has said.

[Maaarf]

finally someone with some sense, i can tell you have good taste since you agree with me

[Moz]

1 . Last 10 seconds MJ wants to have the ball ( that means he's clutch 'coz he wants the ball in the last seconds ) he sets up for an Isolation , last 5 seconds he makes a move ( a two-dribble spot-up move ) he makes it . That's not a lucky shot .

2. Last 1 second , coach designs an inbound play and MJ wants to take the last shot . The Coach sets up a Shuffle Play , MJ got the ball , heaves it up with the defender all over him , but still makes it . Now that's a lucky shot .

What if MJ got the ball, 10 secs left, last 5 secs he makes a move then the ball was stripped off of him then there's a loose ball scramble and he regain the possession with a second left and he hit the game winner over two defenders almost at half court. On that play, is he a clutch player or a "Clutch-Lucky" (are you sure this is not a Darryl Dawkins dunk name?)player?

And also,I don't get it why some people nowadays refer the word "clutch" as the player not as the situation. Or maybe they're just synchronizing their vocabulary to that of the electronics evolution (more compact, more handy[?])

[benji]

For once, I'm not going to bother to actually read what's going on in this thread instead of skimming.

A clutch player is one who you can count on to get a shot off. They may or may not be great at making it depending on it's location, but they will get the shot off which is most important. (If there is no shot, you can't make it.) Carmelo is currently the best clutch player in the league (look at the numbers folks) but there is usually only one "clutch" player per team. (In most instances. A few teams have two or three guys you wouldn't mind taking the last shot. Denver for example has Carmelo and Chauncey who you won't mind taking a last shot.) If you're the Lakers you're counting on Kobe, if you're the Heat it is Wade, etc. If you're the Bulls in the 1990s it's Jordan first, but you can live with Pippen taking it (and can actually live with a Horace Grant jumper or Kukoc/Kerr/Paxson shot as well since everyone is focused on Jordan and Pippen. This is why Horry is considered so great even though he's hardly a special player he stepped into gaps since everyone was focused elsewhere.) These are the players you know will get some kind of look, and that's what matters most. Sure, Kerr may be your best three point shooter, but he cannot create a shot as well as Jordan even though Jordan is the inferior three point shooter. You need the shot, perfect or not.

Then there are lucky shots. Fishers' 0.4 shot was lucky. LeBron's shot WAS lucky. And on and on. Yes, he's the guy you want taking that kind of shot, but it was still a lucky shot, there was no special ability of his that put it in. He's the guy you want taking that shot simply because, as he did, he could get it off, he got lucky and it went in. What you want in that situation, as stated before, is simply the guy who CAN get the shot off. LeBron is one of the best at getting a last second shot, as he showed in game two, and also in game one, when he managed to get a shot for Mo Williams. (Not to mention his entire career basically, LeBron is simply one of the all time freaks of nature in the NBA.) Mo was unlucky, LeBron was lucky. You cannot kill yourself over one shot. Make or miss, you still need to win the next game. As I said, people don't remember the "perfect" shots that didn't go in, they remember the shots, desperation heaves (Chapman, Rex) or not, that do go in.

You cannot count on last second shots, this is why you put the game away early instead of depending on a last shot win. The best teams are not those in last second situations unless faced with a team that can compare to them. (Which we have in these fantastic Conference Finals.) A last second shot is the one instance where you throw out the four factors, the one instance you throw out everything that wins "games" and bet on the guys who can create shots, efficient or not because the most important thing is getting it up.

[MikeMan™]

My Fellow Orlando Magic Fan Said :

Haha yes we have different opinions but in Baketball counts one "Brotherhood"

Cool 2-1 for my Magic-Team Hedo was very bad from the field therefore very good from the freethrowline and makes his double double with 10 rebounds

Then this guy said :

i didn't understand a word you just said. please remove hedo's dick from your mouth and try again

He insulted this guy , just tryin' to save my friend's ass by changing the conversation and trying to promote the :

DAVID STERN WANTS KOBE-LEBRON MATCH-UP CONSPIRACY THEORY :
NBA OVERHYPING LEBRON

Sorry , Maaarf I used you , but it all started when you insulted my fellow Magic fan .

[dopeboy]

DAVID STERN WANTS KOBE-LEBRON MATCH-UP CONSPIRACY THEORY :
NBA OVERHYPING LEBRON

That's a bit exaggerated, imo. I watched the last Magic - Cavs game, so I know that Howard's foul on LeBron wasn't deserved. From one angle it really looked like a foul, just because LeBron pulled his arm down as there would be a contact. That's the most logical reason why ref whistled it, although from any other angle it clearly was a block without any contact with LeBron's arm. There are bunch of wrong calls, but they don't go to Cavs or Lakers only. But these calls are starting to be more and more common lately, and not only in NBA. I don't know what's the problem with officiating, but it is nowhere near perfect or even good.
But when you wrote that Lee dunked over LeBron, that's a bit ridiculous. LeBron was way back, and he nearly managed to catch Lee and block him as in the other episode earlier in the game. I don't know if Stern really wants Cavs - Lakers final that much. Any outcome in these Conference finals and Finals will be damn fun to watch. But I still think LeBron was the star of game 3, just everyone else on their team stinked, but they still kept themselves in the game.

[MikeMan™]

Anthony Johnson Flagrant 2 : What about that !?
It shouldn't had been a Flagrant 2 , he's going for a lay-up it's normal that you'd wave your elbow .
The NBA knows he provides good production off the bench that's why they called it a flagrant 2 .