Professional Wrestling (WWE, TNA, ROH, etc)

[Christian.]

1. For me Cena is overrated.

2. I agree with you Andrew, Hogan got the biggest push in the history. Whatcha gonna do brother?

I forgot, here's the third question:

3. Who is the most underrated wrestler in WWE history?

I think it's Shelton Benjamin.

[Al Ka Pwn]

is superstars wwe's way of admitting that tna is improving?
it's a more action oriented show compared to their other ones. and it's on thursday.

I am enjoying what's going on in tna more these days than the wwe. although the matches in the wwe are usually good quality,
tna is more fun.

[Andrew]

I doubt it, if anything it might be a way to secure an alternate timeslot in case things don't work out with MyNetworkTV and they need to move Smackdown again. TNA's ratings at best equal or beat ECW's ratings by a slim margin and their PPV buyrates are much lower so they're still a way off from being real competition to the WWE and all their resources, even with the big names they've signed and the product they're putting out there. I don't watch a lot of TNA but like I said a lot of their booking reminds me of some of the worst stuff WCW was doing leading up to Vince McMahon buying it, which isn't surprising with Russo in charge but they are steadily growing. Foley as their champion wasn't a great idea in my opinion, though I certainly respect him and what he's done in and for the business.

For me Cena is overrated.

I see where you're coming from but I wouldn't call him overrated because most people trash him. If there were a lot of smarks calling him one of the all-time great workers or whatever then I'd agree he's overrated but I tend to think he's slightly underrated as there are much worse workers (a couple of whom have been champion) and he's a legit draw. His gimmick is pretty corny and stale though. I just think he'd need to be more hyped up by the smarks to truly be overrated but again I see where you're coming from on that one.

I'd say overpushed/overbooked moreso than underrated.

Who is the most underrated wrestler in WWE history?

Shelton Benjamin is a good pick here but again I'd be inclined to say underpushed/underbooked because most smarks seem to have an appreciation for him and want him to get a push. I think it's mostly gimmick/mike skills that are holding him back, he's got the talent to get over in the ring but he needs a hook to really draw heat or get a crowd behind him. He's already got that to a certain extent but not to the point of being a main eventer. Hopefully it'll come together for him one day.

I'd say Owen Hart might be a candidate, again a little iffy because most people have talked about how great he was but he's someone else who never got the true main event push outside a couple of title shots in his feud with brother Bret back in 1994.

[Al Ka Pwn]

you can use the mynetworktv might go belly up arguement, but even the camera work of superstars is similar to tna's.

I loved the foley video's of him showing off his belt to the busdriver and at the store. or him walking through the metal detector with it on his shoulder.
wwe lacks personality. it's so paint by numbers. although I am liking shane o'mac as a wrestler all of a sudden. he should stop doing the coast to coast, but
otherwise, he's pretty solid.

I liked the shelton is a momma's boy gimmick.

[Andrew]

Well, admittedly I think moving Smackdown to Thursday nights again is a long shot and probably not the main reason for establishing that timeslot but I can see it being a possible backup plan in the worst case scenario. I don't think the WWE sees TNA as serious competition just yet, they probably don't mind having some programming up against Impact but I doubt it's out of fear or worry about TNA at the moment. If they were worried they'd probably move Smackdown over immediately to compete.

I don't think WWE lacks personality but the PG approach isn't helping endear it to anyone over the age of 13 right now. TNA isn't completely fresh either, the Main Event Mafia gimmick reminded me greatly of the nWo and the less said about Stone Cold Shark Boy the better. I think they'd be better off pushing the people they've established like Samoa Joe and AJ Styles rather than the former WWE guys but I understand that too since they're big names and have had that exposure. Both companies seem to have their own problems right now.

Of course, Ring of Honor is supposed to be second to none when it comes to in-ring work though I haven't seen it myself. They've got a TV deal now but I doubt it'll get picked up on Foxtel here in Australia as Impact did.

[Null17]

Ring of Honor could be different right now since Gabe Sapolsky, their booker from the start has been canned last year I think. But I haven't seen any of their new stuff though.

[Al Ka Pwn]

I've seen 5 episodes of ring of honor and I am not impressed.

[Null17]

I think the older shows are the ones that got some hype. I think ROH hasn't been doing that good lately.

[Lean]

Alright, Backlash 2009 is history.

All "world titles" changed hands: Christian is now ECW Champion, Edge is again World Heavyweight Champion (for fuck's sake, it's his 9th world title), and Orton is now WWE Champion; Steamboat lost to Y2J, Matt lost to Jeff, CM Punk lost to Kane.

And as the website says: "Right after Backlash, the new rosters made by the 2009 Draft will be in full effect."

Smackdown.

[Andrew]

Love that Christian's getting a run. I'd still like to see him on RAW or Smackdown but ECW needs an established name from time to time to give it some credibility as a C brand and it's a title reign nevertheless. Still, hopefully bigger and better things will be coming in this stint.

I'm sure a lot of people are happy with Cena dropping the belt but Edge getting his ninth reign in three years is utterly ridiculous. It really devalues the titles to have them switch hands like this and it makes multiple title reigns less impressive. I'm bored of Edge too, he's about three reigns and six months past being fresh at least. Great heel, great worker, but he's getting stale. Of course, since he's a heel any heat he can draw for any reason works so a stale heel is probably better than a stale face (like Cena) but it's still not ideal.

In retrospect I guess they had to have Jericho go over because he's the active talent, but considering he went over three legends at Wrestlemania 25 it wouldn't have hurt too much for Steamboat to go over. I suppose it's just the nature of the business though and it's not really about winning and losing because it's all scripted, but on the other hand it is. I heard Steamboat looked great again, it's impressive how he can still go.

Matt/Jeff has been a bit of a disappointment, I liked their WM match but they rushed the gimmicks into it. It hasn't come close to Bret/Owen levels, which was a high standard to reach anyway but for such a natural feud it hasn't come off that way the more it's progressed.

Orton was certainly ready for a title run. Read that they botched the ending though, I imagine that employee got some grief backstage.

[Christian.]

Since Backlash is over and the 2009 draft will finally take effect, I wonder what's next for Triple H? I doubt that he'll be out of the picture and Cena as well.

Will it be a Hunter-Cena-Orton storyline?

And for Smackdown, Edge won the title back and since the draft took effect already, there will be no Vickie Guerrero to back him up.

Will it be a Y2J-Edge-CM Punk feud?

Y2J deserves a push for the WHC.

[buzzy]

Lmao at the bell ringing too early.
Yeah Orton's definitely deserving that run, it was the match he should have won at Mania though. Too bad there was neither a 'Tista or Shane heel turn, I think this would give them some fresh air, especially Batista. But since it was him who cost HHH the title this might still be coming.

The Last Man Standing match was alright, but I realised how you really see the effects of the PG aproach. I really looked forward to the match because I thought it'd be a bit more brutal. Just remember the LMS between Cena and Umaga three years ago at the Rumble. There was blood, much blood, and choking with the ring rope. I don't know, maybe it's just me, but I think that there has to be something that let's you remember it. The most brutal thing in the match was a chockeslam into the lamp followed by a random explosion, and that says a lot.

I'm guessing Cena will take some time off follwing this 'incident', only to come back this fall to get another run ...

The ECW Title match was the most fun match, to me anyways. Quick paced and finally Jack Swagger doing a good impression at a PPV.

Love that Christian's getting a run. I'd still like to see him on RAW or Smackdown but ECW needs an established name from time to time to give it some credibility as a C brand and it's a title reign nevertheless. Still, hopefully bigger and better things will be coming in this stint.

Yep, but finally they took the step and confront him with Edge.

I was right with my predicitions except for the Steamboat one, so the scores are (would've wished some more people would have placed predicitons ..):

buzzy: 5/6
christian cage: 5/6
Andrew: 4/6

Andrew, you probably didn't want Edge to win it, with this being his 4th world title reign since Survivor series, but this was pretty much lock from the beginning. It's just ridiculous how Cena had to win it at Mania only to lose it again at Backlash.

[Al Ka Pwn]

damn. I've been laughing about christian going to ecw, but his match with the all american american was awesome.

ricky the dragon steamboat is the freaking man. just imagine that was your dad. kicking ass at that age.

oh no, santino isn't getting any nookie anymore. I would do rosa mendez over the glamazon any day of the week, but that's just me.

haven't cared about kane since he lost his mask. and cm punk. I don't know. he used to be promising, now he's gay.
glad kane won.

jeff hardy sucks. matt rules. really? duct tape? fuck what an ending. matt going, I'm sorry was icing.
what a match.

I laughed throughout the whole kiss cam segment. cole went: I like the tattoos. lol. "his little slobberknocker"?
"sauce man"? hahahahahaha. he has to kiss jr. lol. my sides are going to give out. god, rosa is a hot b*tch.
santina wins again. omg, I just wet myself.

only thing I like about batista is his music. regarding the match, yawn.
but orton wins so I'm happy. nice punt.

the cena-edge match was good for making dinner with.
woohoo edge wins. cool ppv.

oh and this aren't the 70ties or 80ties. you won't see any 7 year championship reigns anymore.

[buzzy]

oh and this aren't the 70ties or 80ties. you won't see any 7 year championship reigns anymore.

No, but I don't think we ask for too much if we'd like to see a title being hold on for at least one PPV.

[Al Ka Pwn]

do you even care about the wrestling?

[Andrew]

Well, yeah, we do. And the major belts are a big part of that. If they're made to look worthless then what appeal do they have in a main event angle? Great in-ring work is easy to appreciate and a title doesn't need to be on the line but within the wrestling world they're still supposed to be significant and without an interesting story it's essentially just a couple of guys pretending to fight, no matter how well they work. It just builds anticipation for the title changing hands and helps get someone over even more, both the person who holds the title for a few months and the person who finally beats them.

I wouldn't want people holding onto the major belts for years at a time unless they could get a really good angle out of it but I'd prefer fewer changes overall and less jobbing the title back and forth between the same few main eventers for extended stretches. Maybe it's just a case of whatever's in vogue becomes stale eventually, I'd probably feel the same way if we went too long between the title changing hands but I'd prefer the midground.

[Lean]

I won't be surprised to see another Edge-'Taker angle at Smackdown. I mean, what's left of the roster? I think this is the perfect time for guys like Morrisson to get a push.

[Andrew]

It seems likely and they work pretty well together but they could really do with something new. I'd like to see Taker finally get a lengthy run where's he taking on all challengers, kind of like his run in 1997 though preferably a little longer.

[Null17]

oh and this aren't the 70ties or 80ties. you won't see any 7 year championship reigns anymore.

Seven Titties? Eight Titties?

Wanting more credibility to the championships isn't caring about wrestling? One month reigns make the belts look like crap and the champions as well. Think boxing, if a champion can't defend his belt even once. People will say he was never that good. His win was a fluke. All that stuff.

[Al Ka Pwn]

eight titties. guess that shows what I had on my mind at the time.

I am not saying I prefer short title reigns, but pro wrestling is about stories. and as long as the stories are entertaining, I don't mind if they switch around who the champ is. what's more important? stats or watching a good fued with entertaining matches? times change. everything is faster these days. not saying it's better, but it is what it is.

wanting a fixed sport to appear more credible might be caring about the wrong thing. I agree with you though, that it would be better for a champ to at least defend it once, but it's wrestling. soap for men. the way the do it these days, with how many people are on the roster doesn't lend itself to lenghty title reigns. I would rather only see the big stars face off against each other on ppv's and beat up jobbers during the weekdays, but that's the good old days.

[Lean]

Nah it's not the way they do it these days. That's what the WWE wants these days. It's called booking.

We never got used to it because like Edge, though I'm not saying that he's not a good competitor (it's just that he lost his old moves, like that good old Missile Drop Kick), but having him lose and gain world titles every now and then makes the belt lose its "honor" or as what Andrew said, the belt's credibility.

[Al Ka Pwn]

I agree they dumbed it down. just like everything else.
disease of the times we live in.

[Andrew]

That's the only reason the stats really matter, they're a symptom of a bigger problem; treating the major belts like too much of a prop (even if that's what they are in reality) and having the same guys in the main event scene exchanging the belts back and forth. I think they've got to give Orton a lengthy reign to keep the heat on him and Legacy and make it a big deal when someone finally takes the belt from him. He's also earned it.

[deihatein]

Is the WWE match at Backlash the first match that the title has been on the line despite being a six-man tag match. I haven't been able to follow wrestling this days. The last wrestling I have watch is No way out

Will tommy dreamer EVER get the ECW title?

[Lean]

I do hope Tommy will get a reign.