Heat #33 retired, i'm crying watching this

[Matthew]

Will you cry if Wade leaves Miami for Chicago or New York?

[diddy]

i doubt he leave, but if this happens, so be it! i wouldn't cry i would cheer for B-Easy and Mario, cuz i'm not a Player fan, i'm a team fan!

[rob_tc]

it's scary how time flies by so fast - and moments like this remind you of this. take a few seconds to go back down memory lane, and it would seem like last week he was playing alongside tim, those classic games against the knicks. a true professional and legend, he deserves this. the memories.

[shadowgrin]

^ Makes me contemplate about sig limits.

no, i made a mistake it that word, are you both happy?

It would have been better if you went with the bewbs reasoning.

Half Bulls, half wizards.

The banner is still ugly as hell. I think I watched that event. I don't know whether Riley was appreciative of Jordan with the gesture or mocking him with such an ugly banner.

[Kenny]

I don't think there's a more fitting playing to be Heat's first retired jersey. He was an integral part of their championship success, one of the greatest defenders of all time and a true inspiration to many people. In a nutshell, just a great player and great bloke.

[Andrew]

Tim Hardaway has been campaigning for his number to be retired as well.

With Alonzo Mourning's Heat number retired, Tim Hardaway said, ''I deserve to be up there'' too. Hardaway attributes his inability to get an NBA job to his 2007 ''I don't like gay people'' comment -- despite his apologies. ''I thought we were supposed to forgive and forget but it's not happening.''

Taken from here (under the Chatter section).

I'm not sure if openly campaigning for it and playing the victim card is the best way to win the public over and convince the organisation but he was a significant player alongside Zo as the Heat entered what was their most successful era until the time Wade and Shaq teamed up so I would have to agree that he deserves it.

[diddy]

i saw Tim's face when Zo give him some props, and he was like

[NovU]

I agree with Andrew. I think Tim's comment on gays played a major role against it. Nevertheless, he was one great PG to watch. Killer cross over, 3 pointers... those were the fun days.

[benji]

Why would Hardaway assume that comment is what's keeping him from a job? What about his throwing a TV on the floor and other jerkass moves over the years? Maybe his lack of insight in his commentary beyond "[winning team] wanted it more" during his short worthless stint?

As for retiring his number, at least wait a few years. Zo is the most important player in Heat history, Hardaway isn't even close. Personally, I'd wait until after Wade's was retired, but due to the time difference you could probably retire Hardaway in the next couple years. It'd be insulting to Zo's legacy to consider Hardaway anywhere near as important to the Heat's history.

[Andrew]

I agree with Andrew. I think Tim's comment on gays played a major role against it.

I didn't actually say that but it certainly might have played some role. Even two years on it would be a bit of a difficult PR situation but as Ben said there are other factors that could - and probably are - contributing just as much (if not more) towards his inability to get a job in broadcasting or with an NBA team.

As for retiring his number, at least wait a few years. Zo is the most important player in Heat history, Hardaway isn't even close. Personally, I'd wait until after Wade's was retired, but due to the time difference you could probably retire Hardaway in the next couple years. It'd be insulting to Zo's legacy to consider Hardaway anywhere near as important to the Heat's history.

Agreed. Of course it was a snippet in the article that could have been a quote taken out of context, it might have been in response to a question. As it stands it kind of makes him look like he's campaigning for it which doesn't seem very classy but it might not have been like that.

[benji]

Oh, I'm sure he wasn't saying he deserves to go up with Zo, but just eventually. And while, I'm not sure he entirely deserves it and will probably wind up like those other players who get pushed down further and further as the team gets beyond its first 20 years in the league from guys like Beasley, it wouldn't be completely boneheaded. I'm personally not a fan of retiring every great player or member of great teams. Like for the Bulls, Jordan is obvious, I'd relent to Pippen since he dominated his position, but I'm sure there's people who'd want to do Grant and Rodman and Paxson and etc. I think that's just getting silly and trivilizing it.

I was replying less to comments on here, and Hardaway's, than some elsewhere who were advocating for Hardaway to also go up with Zo since they were the "duo" of those dominant teams in the late 90s. I don't consider this a Stockton/Malone situation.

[diddy]

i can't understand why boston retired 21 jerseys?? i think each team should be more selective, like Heat, i don't think miami would retire Shaq's number or Posey's, so far truly deserved it only Zo and D-Wade!

[benji]

Yeah, Boston retired a lot of bench guys who probably should not have gotten it despite their key roles on great teams.

Shaq is an interesting case. I'd say both Orlando and Miami should not retire his jersey. Yeah, he led both of them to 60 wins and Conf Finals, as well as a Finals trip (and title for the Heat) while being a dominant player and probably one of the three best in franchise history for both teams. But he was in Orlando for only four seasons and Miami for basically three.

There's a similar question for Barkley in Phoenix and Houston. Drexler in Houston. As a couple examples. Where do we put these guys who won titles or helped teams to Finals but were only there for three or four years, or at the end of their careers instead of their primes? I personally think only the team where they did their best body of work should be that team. O'Neal in Los Angeles, Barkley in Philly, Drexler in Portland.

Then there's even tougher questions like McGrady or Vince Carter among others. Nash? Or guys on teams like the 2004 Pistons. Do Wallace and Billups deserve it? Rip?

It's an interesting question to ponder. I'd imagine most NBA teams don't even consider it that deeply.

[diddy]

i agree with you, on t-mac i can say that iwouldn't retire his num unless he wins the title, carter not even worse it! nash deserve it in Phoenix, andas a detroit - i would retire Billups, Ben and Rip and Sheed

[Andrew]

i can't understand why boston retired 21 jerseys?? i think each team should be more selective, like Heat, i don't think miami would retire Shaq's number or Posey's, so far truly deserved it only Zo and D-Wade!

I see where you're coming from but consider that the Celtics have been around three times as long as the Heat have, so they've had a lot more players come and ago with their fair share of players now in the Hall of Fame and who made contributions to at least one of their seventeen titles (I almost said sixteen, that particular trivia note has stood for so long it's almost an automatic response). That's not to say we can't examine some of those retired numbers and suggest some might be overkill, but it's certainly an honour for a player and if the club feels they're worthy then so be it, it's not for me to take that honour away from them (even hypothetically).

Raising another question I find interesting, what about Kobe Bryant? I would suggest it's a given the Lakers will retire his jersey when his career is done, but the question is, which one?

[diddy]

Andrew, great on Kobe yeah i agree with you, i know that Celts history is much longer than Heat's, but if we speak about titles, Heat won't retire Shaq's number (99% sure), Posey's, J-Will's and UH's! Kobe is a number 8 for me forever, tho i'm not his fan, but i think 24 is what they will retire!

[Andrew]

Agreed, but Shaq's tenure is short (and I would suggest there's still a possibility they might) and none of the other players you mentioned are Hall of Famers while several former Celtics have gotten that nod and are recognised as more significant players than James Posey, Jason Williams or Udonis Haslem. The Bulls won't be retiring Dickie Simpkins' #8, Jud Buechler's #30 or James Edwards' #53 anytime soon for the same reason.

[Oznogrd]

I would think teams would decide on seperate critera set by the front office based on the memory the player left on the team. Just because you werent the #1 or #2 go to guy doesnt mean you didnt bring something to the table. But it is interesting as to who deserves it on teams as you mentioned like the 2004 pistons. Billups if they hadnt traded him i would've said definitely but at this point who knows? Or last year's Celtics: i believe KG Ray Allen and Paul Pierce all belong as retired numbers somewhere in the NBA: but do KG and Allen deserve it on their former teams more? Or what about strange teams like the Hornets? they've retired Maravich's number despite him not playing for them and Bobby Phills for what appears to be nothing more than driving badly. Would you retire a Mugsy jersey for them? a baron Davis? hell even Glen Rice could be discussed based on some team's critera....

Its a weird thing to think about.

[diddy]

i would retire Mugsy's for sure!

[Alejandrov011]

Why not Miami should retire Shaq's number, he brought the only trophy that Miami has

REMEMBER that number 23 is retired due to a Jordan tribute



Ball-lickers

[Andrew]

I would think teams would decide on seperate critera set by the front office based on the memory the player left on the team. Just because you werent the #1 or #2 go to guy doesnt mean you didnt bring something to the table. But it is interesting as to who deserves it on teams as you mentioned like the 2004 pistons. Billups if they hadnt traded him i would've said definitely but at this point who knows? Or last year's Celtics: i believe KG Ray Allen and Paul Pierce all belong as retired numbers somewhere in the NBA: but do KG and Allen deserve it on their former teams more? Or what about strange teams like the Hornets? they've retired Maravich's number despite him not playing for them and Bobby Phills for what appears to be nothing more than driving badly. Would you retire a Mugsy jersey for them? a baron Davis? hell even Glen Rice could be discussed based on some team's critera....

Its a weird thing to think about.

Absolutely, there's lots of different reasons (some more positive than others) a team could elect a retire a team's jerseys. I do think it was an appropriate gesture to retire the numbers of Bobby Phills and Malik Sealy though.

[benji]

I don't know about that. Neither one had even been on the team for an extended period of time, let alone have any kind of impact on the franchise. Were Reggie Lewis and Jason Collier shafted? Eddie Griffin and Bison Dele?

Joe Smith probably has a better case than Malik Sealy. He helped deny the Wolves more shots at a title.

[Andrew]

Possibly, though I wouldn't go that far. Even though I feel that it was an appropriate gesture to retire their numbers, I don't think it would've been inappropriate if their numbers hadn't been retired. It was the gesture they decided to make, it's not the usual standard for retiring a player's number but so be it.

[The X]

I don't know about that. Neither one had even been on the team for an extended period of time, let alone have any kind of impact on the franchise. Were Reggie Lewis and Jason Collier shafted? Eddie Griffin and Bison Dele?

Joe Smith probably has a better case than Malik Sealy. He helped deny the Wolves more shots at a title.

I don't get that question as both players had their numbers retired by their respective teams

[Andrew]

So they did. There you go.