Chicago Bulls Thread

[Andrew]

I agree, I never said they weren't a flawed team though, just that I'd like to see them make the playoffs. I realise it would be a token appearance and their chances of doing anything significant are slim to nil (and slim likely just left town) but I'd like to see it all the same. I'm not denying the problems with Del Negro etc, I guess I'm just stating the obvious in that the season continues to dwindle down and if they are to make the playoffs I like their chances a lot better if they can have a bit of a run - be it through overachieving or sheer luck - get into the top eight and then weather the storm the rest of the way. If it comes down to the last five games or whatever, I'm not too confident of their chances for the reasons you posted.

[NovU]

Finally, CHI is tied with MIL. I guess Deng isn't missed too much since Salmons can also provide and it seems like Brad Miller toughened up paint a bit.

[Andrew]

They missed him against the Bobcats, had they won that one they'd have moved ahead of the Bucks today. Still, today turned out quite well for them with the win over the Warriors and both the Nets and Bucks losing, no complaints other than the usual longterm issues which won't begin to get resolved until the offseason anyway.

[air gordon]

they are a terrible road team. deng would not have made a difference- esp they way he's been playing lately. speaking of deng- it's pretty funny what's going on with his injury. the team thinks he needs to play through it but he thinks otherwise. i think the team is calling his status"active rest". only the bulls...

something to be encouraged about- the bulls schedule is pretty soft down the stretch and 5 of their last 6 games are at home

[Andrew]

It doesn't inspire confidence in the amount of money they've invested in him. "Injury prone" is a tag too quickly assigned and not necessarily fair especially in the face of freak injuries but hopefully that's all it is, a rash of bad luck the last couple of years and not longterm durability issues.

[NovU]

I guess it can be seen as fading away after big contract type of thing. It's early but we haven't seen much development with Deng. I am starting to agree with Andrew, that they could have been better off signing Gordon. I mean Deng's got a huge contract to live up to at this point of stage and he's not even close to playing at that level so far, especially with attitude that Air Gordon mentioned.

[Andrew]

Pax says the door is still open for Gordon and even with everything that happened last offseason Gordon's expressed interest in returning. I'd like to see it, dollars of course are going to be a concern especially with a player who's not well-rounded but he's been playing pretty well as a starter and if the money Hinrich and Deng are getting is justified then Gordon being well-paid too doesn't seem too much of a stretch to me. Anyway, we'll see what happens come the offseason when figures start getting thrown around and the rest of the season - and possibly a playoff appearance - further seperate the players who are expendable from the ones the Bulls should try their best to keep.

For now, let's savour this:



After all, it's been nearly two years since they've been at least that respectable this late in the season and who knows how long it can last. If Golden State can pick up the win in Milwaukee tomorrow, it'll be a tremendous help...so hey, for one game, go Warriors!

[benji]

I don't think Charlie V's one man show is enough to stop that implosion.

Indy got jacked with both Granger and Dunleavy gone. Nets and Bobcats are probably the biggest threats if they can find some wins.

I think Phily is probably safe now. Bulls should be in a week or two. Their trade with Sacramento was brilliant, got them some actual offensive depth.

[Andrew]

Perhaps, though I had expected to drop a lot more quickly given all the injuries. They got the job done against the Warriors, now just half a game behind in the ninth spot.

[Andrew]

Gordon Leaning Towards Leaving

Ben Gordon, who was furious for being fined by Bulls' head coach Vinny Del Negro for arriving late to a team flight in December, has told confidantes he is inclined to likely sign elsewhere this summer when he becomes an unrestricted free agent.

In each of the past two summers, Gordon was offered contract extensions of better than $50 million. Gordon rejected those offers and the relationships between the Chicago front office and his agent Raymond Brothers is currently described by Tribune writer K.C. Johnson as 'rocky.'

Not the best news I've heard recently. I still think Gordon is much maligned and undervalued; losing him without getting anything in return would be a huge blow. Mind you, I don't think his agent is doing him many favours.

[NovU]

It's unfortunate for the Bulls for giving a wrong guy a contract and having to send away a contract worthy guy for literally nothing in return. I guess Gordon was really unhappy with whole contract situation and also the way he's treated by the team that really depended on his offensive outings this year. I don't know how Vinny Del Negro should have reacted to Gordon being late for a flight, but we know now that he's not returning a Bull next season. At least, Rose could turn out to be a franchise caliber player whom I don't think Gordon ever could have became. Loss is a loss, but I think the Bulls will be fine without Gordon if Rose develops around solid big men just like Chris Paul did. Sure, it would have been nice if the Bulls could have got anything out of Gordon though.

[Andrew]

I don't know if I'd call it a done deal, this could well be Gordon and his agent trying to get leverage for a big payday. The thing is, he might not have too much leverage because teams are looking ahead to 2010 so any offer the Bulls make might still be for the best. We'll just have to wait and see what happens, hopefully things get smoothed over and something that can be worked out that is agreeable on all sides but I do think that Gordon has been underrated and Deng grossly overrated in these proceedings, by the public and the Bulls' front office.

[NovU]

Do you think Gordon is needed in Bulls' long term plan? He's a stellar offensive player but I don't think the Bulls will sign him for the money he asks, especially with kind of season Gordon had so far, I doubt he will try to settle anything less than he asked during the offseason.

[Andrew]

Tough call. I think he's better than people give him credit for but he's not an elite player so in that respect his eventual replacement could conceivably be better. However, I don't think you can give up a 20 ppg scorer all that easily, especially when the other options you've made long term investments in aren't working out. Deng and Hinrich are not showing the form that got them those big deals, Deng has gone from future superstar to possible solid second or third player who seems to be constantly injured (and for $80 million, they need him to be more than that and healthy) and Rose has made Hinrich expendable as a starting point guard.

It depends how long "long term" is at this point. Right now, I still pick Rose and Gordon as the players to keep, with Tyrus Thomas starting to come into his own and possibly being the third player in that group. I understand the argument against paying Gordon that much money when he's not the most well-rounded player in the league, but I don't see the logic in paying Deng and Hinrich the money they're getting just have them be inconsistent, simply because they have one or two attributes over Gordon (in Deng's case height, in Hinrich's case his defense) and I don't see how that's really any better.

Gordon will likely never be more than an average defender but for the money he wants he'll probably continue to be an effective scorer and while we love to preach "defense wins championships", holding your opponent to 80 points doesn't mean much if as a team you can't score 81. I think a team with Gordon can be good enough defensively as a whole to get the job done while having someone who can pack a punch at the other end. I guess it depends on whether others can be moved and what the Bulls are willing to pay but he's a player I think they should keep out of the current squad and to that end I suppose I'd say yes, he's needed long term.

[Andrew]

So close and yet so far against the Heat, Wade hitting the big shots at the end of regulation to force the first OT and then hitting another at the end of the second OT to win the game after stripping John Salmons. Why the ball went to Salmons just because he'd hit a shot on the previous play despite Ben Gordon being 14/23 from the field (8/11 from downtown) is another matter altogether but I guess that's Vinny Del Negro for you.

[benji]

They should've considered playing more than seven players.

[Andrew]

Did they have more than seven available?

[air gordon]

Aaron Gray & Roberson.. why bother lol

i'm not going to bash VDN on the last play....

IIRC- Salmons had dequan cook guarding him for most of 4th qtr/OT's.. the matchup was clearly in his favor. the boxscore showed Gordon had a monster game but Salmons had some huge shots/ft's down the stretch as well

Salmons is a better isolation player then Gordon and he had Haslem on him to boot. Wade made a great play (or took a big gamble and won) and made a spectacular shot.

imo the game was played with a playoff type atmostphere. even if it was a loss.. i hope the team can build on this effort for their ROAD games
edit...
the story from realgm is silly(and this is just the start)- because he was fined for an incident back in december, he's "telling his confidants" he's going to leave.. lol

both sides have acted professionally. Paxson said they are open to signing him in the offseason. Gordon hasn't complained publicly and he's played well.

is Gordon really being undervalued? didn't Pax offer him the highest contract of any team in the summer? isn't he the one starting next to Rose and putting up #'s/staying healthy?

seems a little peculiar to compare hinrich and deng to Gordon when they don't play the same position. regardless- since you can't take away the contracts given to deng/hinrich- would it be wise to tie up that much $$ amongst those 3 players??? sorry to say this: i don't think any of these players would be a starter on a championship contending team. we have to think longterm here. i'm all for keeping Gordon.. if he's paid/plays as a 6th man

we shouldn't overrate him as a scorer: he's solid but he's more similar to a RIp Hamilton/Ray Allen type where you run him off/give him screens.. as opposed to someone who demands double teams/can create shots for themselves like Joe Johnson/Brandon Roy/etc...

btw Andrew- how much do you think Gordon should get?

[Andrew]

Well, I'm inclined to say whatever it takes to keep him but that could get ridiculous. Without getting too specific I think between $60-70 million wouldn't be completely unreasonable but then I'm not the one signing the cheques so that's easy for me to say. I also think giving him such a big contract hinges on the possibility of being able to move Deng or Hinrich and their bloated contracts so as to avoid the luxury tax and whatnot. Looking back on that article I must admit it was a bit tabloidesque though.

About the comparisons to Deng and Hinrich: it was more about the whole "Keep Deng, Gordon's a scrub" sentiment that was going around this past offseason and making a choice as to whom the Bulls should pay and who they should let go. Obviously they fulfil different roles and some comparisons are certainly oranges and apples, as always when you're talking about players of different positions.

Bulls/Magic will be shown here tomorrow. Glad to see it but it mighn't be pretty. I wouldn't expect my fellow Foxtel subscribers who aren't Bulls fans to be thrilled about the choice either but that's the nature of the beast when it comes to ESPN Australia.

[Dan's Brain]

They havent been terrible against good teams, so they might be able to put up a strongish fight. However, I'll be watching without a lot of hope.

[Andrew]

You hope they'll stay in it as long as possible. It sucks to see them fall apart late but is slightly more bearable than watching them get thrashed throughout.

[benji]

Looks like JN13 spoke too soon.

That game was atrocious to watch. Marcin Gortat is balls though.

[Dan's Brain]

Yuck. Just yuck. Look like I caught some of Andrew's jinxing ability.

[Andrew]

It was kind of what I expected. I must admit I couldn't watch the fourth quarter. Orlando destroyed them, plain and simple.

[NovU]

Milwaukee take 8th spot away from CHI, despite going 3-7 in last 10. This 8th seed fight is looking darn pitiful compared to West.