v1.10 released...

[sventhedog]

In the MIAMI HERALD, Barry Jackson writes that "when Shaquille O'Neal told Pat Riley he would be in great shape for his first season with the Heat, he obviously wasn't kidding." Just "days after O'Neal showed off his slimmer physique at the MTV Video Music Awards, Shaq offered numbers to quantify it." O'Neal "told reporters in Louisiana this week that he has lost 24 pounds since meeting with Riley in July and is now down to 331."

SUNS joe johnson sg/sf or sg/sg. he'll no longer have to play the point. they already have 3 pg's nash, barbosa, eisley.

[FanOfAll]

Chris Webber:
Lower his passing. He's rated at 69, while averaging 4.6 apg in real life. Antoine Walker, who averaged 4.5 apg, is only rated at 56. And with his injuries, does he still deserve a dunk rating of 90 and quickness and speed ratings of about 70?

i'm not a webber fan but i think his pass rating is fine. he's still one of the best passing big man in the league. you cant take everything away from an injured player, otherwise andrew's ratings would be bouncing up and down all the time with all player injuries. if this is the case, iverson probably will be slower now, lower fg, etc. he played injured last season but i think he will be better this season and so will webber.

I agree, his pass rating is fine. He is one of the best passing big men. Assists don't tell the whole story. I agree quick/speed should come down a little.

[Andrew]

Sounds good. Noted.

[FanOfAll]

I also agree that Christie's DAware should come to (low 90s)...forgot to post that in my other post.

Rodney Rogers:
SF/PF (why? primary reason is to free up play time for West, which will happen IRL)
Inside Scoring: Down to 45

David West:
FG: Up to 62
3 pt: Down to 7
FT: Down to 71
OReb: Up to 67
Strength: Up to 64
Quick, speed: Up to 56
Passing: 41
Dribbling: 48
OAware: 56
Primacy: 40
Overall: 57

NOH bench --> 6 - Armstrong, 7 - Smith, 8 - Anderson, 9 - Lynch, 10 - West, 11 - Rogers, 12 - Garcia

One more...Stromile Swift should have the ability to pro-hop (don't know which categories those are).

Vlad Radman (can't spell his full name):
Speed/Quick: Low 70s
Inside Scoring: Lower, down to 40s
Hardiness: Higher, dunno why he's so low
DAware: Up a lot higher, 60s, he's good vs 3's, but they always have played him out of position due to necessity (at the 4), where he's a bad defender.

[JimRaynor55]

Kobe and T-Mac: These two are as close as any two players get, but Kobe's defense sets them apart (multiple All-Defensive Team selections to none). Right now, Kobe has a slight edge in Steals, but his Defensive Awareness is lower than McGrady's. Both of their Defensive Awareness ratings should be adjusted so that Kobe's is higher even if only by a bit.

[sventhedog]

Kobe and T-Mac: These two are as close as any two players get, but Kobe's defense sets them apart (multiple All-Defensive Team selections to none). Right now, Kobe has a slight edge in Steals, but his Defensive Awareness is lower than McGrady's. Both of their Defensive Awareness ratings should be adjusted so that Kobe's is higher even if only by a bit.

i strongly agree. t-mac, even having the tools to be a very good defender, has a tendency to be lazy on defense. kobe is definitely a better defender.

HAWKS pedrag drobnjak lower def aware to high low 50's. at 57, he's better than olowakandi, whos definitely a better defender.

BULLS andres nocioni lower overall. he overrated.

ROCKETS dikembe mutombo. lower ins. scoring to low-mid 70's. at 78, hes higher than jamal magloire.

WARRIORS christian laetner lower def aware to high40s-low 50s. at 58, he's better than olowakandi, whos definitely a better defender.

HEAT michael doleac lower def aware to high 40s - low 50's. at 55, he's as high as olowkandi and higher than tony battie, a better defender.

BUCKS lonnie jones lower ins.scoring to low 60's. he scores mostly by offensive rebounds and putbacks.
higher blocking. he has gtoo timing. blocking and rebounding are his best skills.

SUNS steven hunter lower def aware to low-mid 50's. at 58, he's better than olowakandi, whos definitely a better defender.
--joe johnson sg/sf. he's projected as an starting sf when rumors about trading marion came out. he'll no longer have to play the point since the team already has 3 pg(nash,eisley,barbosa).
--howard eisley pg/pg. he'll no longer have to play sg as he did last season since they lacked sg's last season. this season, the team has already a lot of sg(richardson,jacobsen,j.johnson).
--jake voskhul higher speed(6'11 245 lbs), quickness and overall than hunter. u can maybe increase a little his speed(at 45, he's as fast as jake tskalidis, who is slower at 7'2 285 lbs). and quickness since his very active defensively.

BLAZERS damon stoudamire lower defensive rating to mid 60's. he,s overrated. he cant defend that well because he's too small and he's

KINGS doug christie sg/pg.

SPURS tony massenburg higher strength. at 61, hes as strong as robert horry.

[FanOfAll]

BULLS andres nocioni lower overall. he overrated.

Sorry I think this Nocioni thing is getting absolutely absurd. How low do you want him? 59? Ok, then I make a request to lower all the rookies (and just about most players). Deng, Iggy should be at 58. Gordon, Nelson, Okafor, LJax around 60, 61. Harris and Childress around 59. Howard around 57-58. No other rookie should be higher than Nocioni. I've seen Nocioni play far more than my fair share and I'll tell you he is better overall right now than very, and I emphasize very raw rookies like Deng and Iggy. People forget how quickly the lack of experience and polish in the games of Deng and Iggy because they're good all-around (at times, even me on occasion, people get this stereotype that if a player has solid all-around skills, a bit Pippen-esque, he's a polished player).

And please, don't come back saying that Deng might start or he might take over the starting job half way through the season. It doesn't mean he's better. I would love Nocioni and his endless energy off the bench. It would really boost Deng's confidence to start him too.

Also, let me restate: overall rating is overblown. Look at NVE (just off the top of my head, I know there are better examples). Should he really be a "67"? No, he IMO should be rated higher. But look at his rating. There's not much you do without making it unrealistic (and his speed/quick is too high, as I mentioned earlier). Why? He can't out of the gym. He can't dunk like JRich. It totally kills his rating. I have absolutely no idea why jumping, dunking, inside scoring, and at times 3 PT hurt ratings so much (I am not saying they should have no effect whatsoever, just not so drastic). It's not part of the player's game, so it should count against him? Things that are consistent, musts on the court, that would count into areas like OAware, DAware, passing, dribbling, rebounding, etc, should hurt/help players more. It's something they have to do. Being a post scorer isn't something a player must do. Shooting 3's isn't either.

[Andrew]

Thanks for the latest guys, I might have a new update out this weekend.

To add to what FanOfAll was saying, I really prefer not to increase or decrease ratings simply to change the overall. I understand that some players are overrated/underrated, but I'd like to make the appropriate changes to the individual ratings rather than simply making changes to increase or decrease the overall.

[sventhedog]

BULLS andres nocioni lower overall. he overrated.

Sorry I think this Nocioni thing is getting absolutely absurd. How low do you want him? 59? Ok, then I make a request to lower all the rookies (and just about most players). Deng, Iggy should be at 58. Gordon, Nelson, Okafor, LJax around 60, 61. Harris and Childress around 59. Howard around 57-58. No other rookie should be higher than Nocioni. I've seen Nocioni play far more than my fair share and I'll tell you he is better overall right now than very, and I emphasize very raw rookies like Deng and Iggy. People forget how quickly the lack of experience and polish in the games of Deng and Iggy because they're good all-around (at times, even me on occasion, people get this stereotype that if a player has solid all-around skills, a bit Pippen-esque, he's a polished player).

And please, don't come back saying that Deng might start or he might take over the starting job half way through the season. It doesn't mean he's better. I would love Nocioni and his endless energy off the bench. It would really boost Deng's confidence to start him too.

ok. but my point is he is not nba tested. if fiba is same as nba. the dream team would have definitely won the gold. they have diff rules. they play in a diffent way.
u might have seen him play pretty well. but he may or may not adjust to the nba. if all international players adjust to nba, why not sign all good fiba players to contracts by just seing them play in the olympics.
i have seen nocioni play, and i was impressed considering he's undersized but can still play well.
in short, nocioni has potential so you can rate him high. but he also has no nba experience yet so you can't rate him too high. you base your ratings mostly on his potential to be a good nba player. australia's shane heal is a very good shooter. something the spurs really needed last season. but heal struggled, not because hes a bad player. he may not have played enough minutes, he may not have given enough time to adjust, a good defender might have guarded him, or just circumstances all pointing against him. yet the spurs didnt see all that. they signed him knowing only that he's a good shooter.

[FanOfAll]

BULLS andres nocioni lower overall. he overrated.

Sorry I think this Nocioni thing is getting absolutely absurd. How low do you want him? 59? Ok, then I make a request to lower all the rookies (and just about most players). Deng, Iggy should be at 58. Gordon, Nelson, Okafor, LJax around 60, 61. Harris and Childress around 59. Howard around 57-58. No other rookie should be higher than Nocioni. I've seen Nocioni play far more than my fair share and I'll tell you he is better overall right now than very, and I emphasize very raw rookies like Deng and Iggy. People forget how quickly the lack of experience and polish in the games of Deng and Iggy because they're good all-around (at times, even me on occasion, people get this stereotype that if a player has solid all-around skills, a bit Pippen-esque, he's a polished player).

And please, don't come back saying that Deng might start or he might take over the starting job half way through the season. It doesn't mean he's better. I would love Nocioni and his endless energy off the bench. It would really boost Deng's confidence to start him too.

ok. but my point is he is not nba tested. if fiba is same as nba. the dream team would have definitely won the gold. they have diff rules. they play in a diffent way.
u might have seen him play pretty well. but he may or may not adjust to the nba. if all international players adjust to nba, why not sign all good fiba players to contracts by just seing them play in the olympics.
i have seen nocioni play, and i was impressed considering he's undersized but can still play well.
in short, nocioni has potential so you can rate him high. but he also has no nba experience yet so you can't rate him too high. you base your ratings mostly on his potential to be a good nba player. australia's shane heal is a very good shooter. something the spurs really needed last season. but heal struggled, not because hes a bad player. he may not have played enough minutes, he may not have given enough time to adjust, a good defender might have guarded him, or just circumstances all pointing against him. yet the spurs didnt see all that. they signed him knowing only that he's a good shooter.

You make a good point (except Chapu doesn't exactly have much potential), but what about college players? HS? Sure, the rules and tradition of the game isn't as different btwn that and the NBA as the NBA and FIBA is different, but in college and HS, these 1st rounders are quicker, bigger, faster, stronger, smarter than their opponents. Most specifically:
"but he also has no nba experience yet so you can't rate him too high."
None of those draft picks have NBA experience either. How come their ratings are also largely based on potential, but they can be rated "high" (which for this case, is a around a 65)?

Again, don't buy into this overall rating too much. I've played with Chapu quite a bit lately, and he's not easy to score with at all. It's hard to emulate the moves he uses in real life, hard to mimic that aggressiveness, the energy, etc...I've had more success with him at the 4 and in the post than at the 3 .

Andrew, if you don't take all my suggestions (and I understand because I'm in the minority here), in the very least, please change his inside scoring (suggestions above), jumping, dunking, blocking, DAware, and primacy.

[Andrew]

You mean, reduce all of those ratings?

[FanOfAll]

No, my apologies for the misunderstanding. What I meant is that if you don't take all my suggestions on Chapu from earlier:

FG: Up to 67
FT: Up to 68
Dunking: Up to 70
Inside Scoring: 62 (can't remember if I changed this or not)
OReb: 55 (see above comment)
Jumping: Up to 67
OAware: (same comment)
Passing Down to 49
DReb: (lol same comment)
Blocking: Up to 58
DAware: Up to 62
Primacy: Down to 44
SF/PF
Overall: 65

At least take inside scoring, jumping, dunking, blocking, and daware and primacy. Those are musts in my eyes. I realize how hard it is for you to compromise with everyone's ideas, but IMO those I listed have got to change. BTW, ignore OAware and DReb. I turned stupid and forgot to put the rating...will add that tomorrow.

[DTNTER2003]

Hello, I love your roster patches man. But, the only pet peeve I have is that the players that deserve three icons don't have them and some that are ok shooters just get trashed. I know this subject gets old, but you just can't ignore a players abilites;

Three Icon List:

Shane Battier- 77

Mike Miller-81

Kerry Kittles-78

Kyle Korver-83


Three Rated 70-74:

Chris Crawford-70

Marko Jaric-70

Manu Ginobili-74

Rasual Butler-71

Steve Blake-72

Antawn Jamison-71

Sheed-70


Also, to balance online play. Lower all guards inside scoring except for proven post guards like Payton, Wade, Mark Jackson, Cassell, Spree. It gets really insane when some guards shoot better inside than big men. Just my two cents worth, thanks for the great work.

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[sventhedog]

You make a good point (except Chapu doesn't exactly have much potential), but what about college players? HS? Sure, the rules and tradition of the game isn't as different btwn that and the NBA as the NBA and FIBA is different, but in college and HS, these 1st rounders are quicker, bigger, faster, stronger, smarter than their opponents. Most specifically:
"but he also has no nba experience yet so you can't rate him too high."
None of those draft picks have NBA experience either. How come their ratings are also largely based on potential, but they can be rated "high" (which for this case, is a around a 65)?

i agree but i think college usa basketball is closer to the nba than fiba. ncaa and nba both emphasize physical game. they want players who have skills but has a strong body to bang with other players. on the other hand. european basketball trains players to be shooters. my point is players from ncaa or high school have a higher probability to excel in the nba simply because they are trained to suit the nba style. these players have a common goal - to play in the nba. on the other hand, international players have lower probability to excel in the nba because they are trained to suit the fiba. they are trained to play in the olympics, etc. o, i still havent mentioned the rules. can you imagine growing up playing european basketball then to just enter the nba with different set of rules.
again, im not saying international players dont have the chance to be excel in the nba. im just saying it's harder.

Three Rated 70-74:

Chris Crawford-70

Marko Jaric-70

Manu Ginobili-74

Rasual Butler-71

Steve Blake-72

Antawn Jamison-71

Sheed-70
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sorry but i think these ratings are too high. they are not realistic. im a ginobilli fan but i dont think he has established himself as a 3 pt shooter. jamison can shoot the three but not that well because he plays more inside. sheed can knock down a three but not that consistently, plus he plays more in the low post now for detroit not like his days back in portlan where he took more 3 pt attempts than all players in the team.

HAWKS al harrington higher ins scoring to mid 60's. at 62, he ranks same with mark madsen (not a good low post scorer).

NUGGETS nikolov tsikitishvilli lower ins scoring to 62 or lower. at 64, he ranks same with lamar odom. ive seen tsikisvilli play. he has little chance to even be an average low post scorer.

CAVS robert traylor higher def aware to at least high 40's. at 40, he ranks same with vladimir radmanovic (an offensive player). he has improved his defense. he can steal, block, and clog up the lane. he has pretty wide body.

WOLVES kevin garnett higher ins scoring to 90. i think he should rank same with rasheed wallace.

KINGS doug christie higher off aware to low 50's. at 47, he ranks lower than kelvin cato(51) (a defensive player). i think he deserves the increase considering he can shoot and pass.

SPURS robert horry higher off aware to at least high 40's. at 40, he ranks lower than mark madsen(43)(not even a scorer).

[Andrew]

Thanks for the latest. I don't agree with all of the suggestions since my last post so I can't promise I'll make every change that has been suggested, but I'll put most of those suggestions to good use.

[FanOfAll]

i agree but i think college usa basketball is closer to the nba than fiba. ncaa and nba both emphasize physical game. they want players who have skills but has a strong body to bang with other players. on the other hand. european basketball trains players to be shooters. my point is players from ncaa or high school have a higher probability to excel in the nba simply because they are trained to suit the nba style. these players have a common goal - to play in the nba. on the other hand, international players have lower probability to excel in the nba because they are trained to suit the fiba. they are trained to play in the olympics, etc. o, i still havent mentioned the rules. can you imagine growing up playing european basketball then to just enter the nba with different set of rules.
again, im not saying international players dont have the chance to be excel in the nba. im just saying it's harder.

I disagree that it's harder to succeed in the NBA from the FIBA. It's impossible to measure/judge. Sure, the rules are different, the game is different, but there are factors towards the FIBA players that work for them as well. Anyways, that's besides the point...this isn't really where I haven't seen the player play (ie guys like Robert Swift and Andris Biedrins are off hearsay mostly), and Nocioni isn't really a guy who will suffer from the change of the game styles. The rectangular paint will probably help him more than anything as well as the no charge zone. Anyways, I digress...

Three Rated 70-74:

Chris Crawford-70

Marko Jaric-70

Manu Ginobili-74

Rasual Butler-71

Steve Blake-72

Antawn Jamison-71

Sheed-70

I like the Bulter (1 3pg, 46% actually could be a tad higher), Crawford, and Blake's rating, but Jaric (only 32%), Jamison (decent %, low # he made per game), and 'Sheed.

Three Icon List:

Shane Battier- 77

Mike Miller-81

Kerry Kittles-78

Kyle Korver-83

I like those, but not Battier's. If anyone deserves that 77, it's Posey (1.4 at 39% last year, very good). However, Battier should be around 74. He only hit 0.8 at a 35% clip last year...even though his career #'s are better than Posey's.

HAWKS al harrington higher ins scoring to mid 60's. at 62, he ranks same with mark madsen (not a good low post scorer).

I don't know other's inside scoring, but if Madsen is a 62, Harrington has got to be in the mid 70s. The post is his game.

[alexboom]

Andrew, just a small correction, there's a mistake on Shane Battier's birthplace that was already in the original roster : he was born in Birmingham, MI ; not Birmingham, AL

source : http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3516/

[sventhedog]

josh davis higher 3 pt rating.

"The 6-8 Davis averaged 18.7 points and shot 59 percent from the floor (41.1 on three-pointers) in 40 games for the Idaho Stampede." - www.philly.com

lebron james starting sf/sg
jeff mcinnis starting sg/pg
eric snow starting pg/sg

"Coach Paul Silas appears to be counting on Jeff McInnis and Eric Snow to start together in the backcourt. LeBron James would be the small forward, but he can switch to shooting guard when McInnis or Snow leave the game. Rookie Luke Jackson also can play some shooting guard. Snow and McInnis can both play the point." - akron beacon journal