Chicago Bulls Thread

[Unrestrict3D]

I believe Chicago will trade the #2 pick to either the Lakers (Odom) or elsewhere. I don't think they'll keep the pick.

[Andrew]

Don't know if it's been posted or not, but did you folks hear the rumor about Marion, the #21, the #27 to the Bulls for BG7 and the #2? What do you guys think of that deal for both teams?

I personally think the Bulls would be better off with that deal. I don't see anybody in this draft become a top 15 player, like Shawn Marion is. And Ben Gordon would be a 20ppg scorer in the Suns' system.

However, I don't see the deal going down. The point of trading Marion would be to get rid of the logjam at PF, and getting the pick to draft Tyrus Thomas would be pointless.

I like the idea of Ben Gordon remaining a Bull but that would be quite a deal, I'm not sure it's one the Suns would be too willing to make though. Gordon is already close to being a 20 ppg scorer in the Bulls' system...when he starts at least.

I believe Chicago will trade the #2 pick to either the Lakers (Odom) or elsewhere. I don't think they'll keep the pick.

I'm more enthused about a deal like the rumoured Suns swap, though both sound like pure speculation right now.

[air gordon]

I'm not saying he will be the next tyson chandler, but it seems he's coming into the league as an athletic and animated defender with less offensive skills, for some teams thats good but i think you'd agree the Bulls need a big man who can be productive on both ends of the floor, not just one.

less offensive skills then who? my scouting skills are not professional by any means but i have seen Thomas make jumpers from 12-15ft... even off the dribble during the NCAA tourney so he's not some guy who just dunks all the time

i'm not sure who the Bulls should pick as of yet (assuming Aldridge is off the board) but i'm guessing if Paxson were to draft Thomas, it would be because he belives he can be a "difference maker" on defense a la Ben Wallace and also become a decent scoring option on offense

They should probably try to still draft the best talent available, look at it this way.

Say you have a solid playoff team, such as the bulls, who landed a top pick via trade, and they have one obvious gaping hole, PF, but the remainder of their lineup is talented.
...

Now, say players like Kobe and KG and Tmac are in the draft, just because the obvious filler spot is gone, does that mean you should pass on players like potential kobe or Tmac to fill a hole? I say draft the best player and then perhaps they can arrange a trade involving their player or one of the palyers at a position like C, SG, SF, or PG to get the player they need at PF.
_________________

at least wait until the Bulls make it past the 1st round a few times before calling them a 'solid playoff team'. lol i don't think even think doing that will qualify them as that

According to most draft experts, there are no players of that potential that you mention. and none of those you players you mentioned were sure fire players- they weren't drafted in the top 3

but I'd rather take my chances with Thomas/Aldridge/Bargnani (all PFs), than someone who'll help me win 5 games for the next three years and then retire/become shit.

that's pretty much shoots down your Ben Wallace idea

[Fenix]

http://draftexpress.com/viewarticle.php?a=1324

Rumour has it that Tyrus Thomas is guaranteed to be picked by the Bulls. And stay away from Ben Wallace, he has become no better than a shorter version of Desagana Diop. Thomas is bigger, will be able to produce the same numbers on D and can do much more on offense with his ability to finish near the basket, run the court and shoot from the midrange.

Well, I'm becoming a die hard Bulls fan. Who would have thought that my days of bandwagonning are finaly over. And if Dirk somehow, someway decided to demand a trade, I'd kill to see a Chandler, Deng and 2nd for Nowitzki happen. Actually, when Live 07 comes out, I'll do exactly that.

[[L3]1101]

I would like to see the Bulls becoming more interested in Thomas. This gives the raptors more security to move down. Thomas could be what the Bulls need, if Aldridge is not available at #2. I still think it'll take him some time to develop, but shouldn't be any longer than what Chandler took. Man i can't imagine how good the Bulls is gonna be next season with the #2 and all that cap space.

[Fenix]

Another report:

LSU coach: Bulls will draft Thomas
By Mike McGraw
Daily Herald Sports Writer

Posted Saturday, June 03, 2006


LSU coach John Brady is convinced the Bulls will select former Tigers power forward Tyrus Thomas with the No. 2 selection in the NBA draft June 28.

Speaking at the Southeastern Conference Spring Meeting in Destin, Fla., Brady told the Baton Rouge Advocate that he hasn’t heard from Toronto, which owns the top pick, in regard to Thomas. But Brady believes the Bulls have strong interest.

“If he’s sitting at No. 2, I think Chicago will take him,” Brady said, echoing the sentiment of many NBA observers.

The LSU coach was also happy that Thomas might have the chance to join a team that made the playoffs last season. The Bulls finished 41-41, but they acquired the No. 2 pick from New York in the Eddy Curry trade.

“He’s coming out of maybe the closest college basketball team in the country,” Brady said. “He’s known those guys since he was 6 or 7 years old.

“With the Knicks, the players don’t like the coach (Larry Brown), the coach doesn’t like the players and the players don’t like each other. Tyrus doesn’t need that.

“I like that (the Bulls) are a young team, and (coach) Scott Skiles challenges his guys. Tyrus’ personality fits all of that. I think he’ll be an NBA all-star in four years.”

The 6-foot-9 Thomas, a redshirt freshman from Baton Rouge, averaged 12.3 points, 9.2 rebounds and 3.1 blocks while helping lead LSU to the Final Four.

Bulls get a breather: The Bulls will take a break from working out draft prospects at the Berto Center as NBA teams attend the Orlando predraft camp beginning Tuesday.

This is the event that was held in Chicago at the Moody Bible Institute for years before being switched to Disney’s Wide World of Sports Complex. Disney is the parent company of NBA broadcast partners ABC and ESPN.

As usual, most of the players who are convinced they’ll be first-round selections will not participate in the Orlando camp. Illinois guard Dee Brown is not expected to play, while forward James Augustine may pull out. Both players are projected as possible late first-round picks.

Ex-Bull tries comeback: Former Bulls guard Jay Williams may finally be ready to launch his NBA comeback, nearly three years after a devastating motorcycle accident caused severe injuries to his left leg. Williams worked out for the Toronto Raptors on Thursday.

“The opportunity here is tremendous,” Williams said in the Toronto Sun. “I feel great. I have no fear of playing basketball.”

Williams, a 6-2 guard, plans to work out for more NBA teams, but it’s unlikely the Bulls have any interest. The Bulls released Williams in 2004 after agreeing to a contract buyout.
http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/bulls.asp

I'm all for it. I love Bargnani, but he's a perimeter player and will always be one and considering the speed at which the Bulls play, Thomas is clearly the better fit. Can he score with his back to the basket as of right now? No, but he can score close to the basket, which is exactly what Bulls need. He gives them a Marion-like weapon to throw the lobs to, shoot from midrange and score on putbacks. Sure, he has a lot of potential, but he has the work ethic and mentality to achieve it and to gain that post skills that he currently lack and would make him trully unstoppable. But at the end of the day, his competivness/motor is what seperates him from Aldridge what will make him the better player. If Aldridge's upside is Jermaine O'Neal, Bargnani's Nowitzki, then Thomas is Shawn Kemp w/o eating disorder.

A lot has been written about Thomas being undersized, but I don't believe that. Official measurements will tell, but seing him in games, I think he's a legit 6'10 with shoes on - at least. Glen Davis is listed at 6'9 and looks to be around Shelden Williams' height (6'9 with shoes on) and Thomas absolutely towers over him if they both stand together (look at the pic). His wingspan is also way over 7 feet and has the frame to end up at 235-245 without losing much of the explosivness he has. Sure, he'll never be as strong as Amare, but he doesn't need to be. Everyone are talking about how NBA is changing, how the era of true Cs is over and how speed/athleticism>sheer power and if you look at Thomas, he fits right into the new, 'improved' NBA as a PF with all the necessary psychical and mental tools.

[Andrew]

Where's he going to find time though? It doesn't seem right to relegate Deng or Nocioni to the bench for anything less than a proven talent who's actually at a higher level than they are currently. If Thomas was coming into the league with LeBron-like hype and expectations then it wouldn't seem unreasonable but as it stands I'm not sure how he fits into the rotation without getting in the way so to speak.

[Fenix]

If Thomas is drafted, that would most probably mean that Tyson Chandler is going to be shipped out, as hard as that seems, considering that he's the only 7 footer Bulls have. But he is overpaid and couldn't offer much more than Tyrus can in his first season, so he's definitely the odd man out. His size would be most probably be replaced via free agency with a veteran C and via trade (Tyson for an expiring contract), so the Bulls would actually gain on size and athleticism and get even more flexibility down the road. And where would he fit in the rotation. Right now, the Bulls gave a decent amount of playing time to Chandler, Allen, Deng, Harrington, Nocioni, Songaila and Sweetney. They all got a noticable That's a lot of players to have in your rotation. If reports are true, Songaila is opting out of his contract and Bulls probably won't resign him, if they'll get new big men. Allen and Harrington are old men who you can afford to bench, so you're basically left with Thomas playing PF, Nocioni at SF, a new big man starting at C and Deng coming off the bench to play SF (with Nocioni moving to PF) and Sweetney playing PF/C. That's a whole better situation than they're in right now. More size, more athlecism, more interior defense.

Another scenario (and very likely) is that Chicago will ship their pick out for a experienced big man still in his prime, but I don't see anyone like that available, at least not someone worth of giving someone like Thomas. I seriously doubt that Indiana will trade O'Neal, same with Minessotta and KG.

[Andrew]

I guess that makes sense, though if that's the route they intend on going I would hope they'd secure some size to replace Chandler before pulling the trigger. For all his shortcomings, I'm still not too keen for Chandler to be shown the door especially since it's not a given they'll be able to acquire anyone decent to replace him.

[air gordon]

i don't think Paxson is dumb enough to paint himself into a corner... at least this early lol. they haven't even worked out/interview Thomas

and i seriously doubt Paxson would be content with Tyrus thomas (if he were to be drafted), Sweetney, malik Allen, etc as the frontcourt situation.

i don't think anyone will want Tyson Chandler and his bad contract unless someone like Deng, Gordon, or Hinrich, and/or the #2 pick is included. IMO i think Chandler will be sticking around... if anything to drive up his trade value and he's a decent insurance since none of us know how much Thomas can contribute (again assuming the Bulls select him). and maybe, just maybe Chandler commits himself this offseason and comes back a better player

There is still that ~$15 mil in cap space to use to find another 'proven' big man. but i don't think you can start negotiating with FA's until after the draft(?)
...

it hasn't been mentioned here yet- Paxson has said publicly if he is using the pick, he wants to add "length and athleticism" to the team. i think that all but eliminates the Bulls taking Morrison and still leaves to the door open to Aldridge, Bargani, Thomas, Gay, Roy

[Fenix]

Memphis and especially Golden State are in need of a tall defensive presence. I bet anyone of those two teams would take their chances with him.

[air gordon]

saying you'll bet doesn't prove your point any further

both teams do need a big man defender indeed. and both teams are going to want to dump off their bad contracts for a player like Chandler

i sure don't want someone like Cardinal or Stoudemire from Memphis

same with Foyle, Dunleavy, Murphy, or Fisher from GSW

[Fenix]

It very much proves my point that there are teams willing to accept Chandler's contract. Does that mean Bulls would accept one of their bad contracts? Not neccessary if a third party is involved which could send either an expiring contract or a resigned, young big man (a la Gooden). What would the Bulls get? Well, in a Golden State trade - expiring contract/big man and someone like Pietrus, a big defensive minded guard with nice athleticism. I'm sure there would be a lot of suitors willing to get Murphy. Your point: there is no trading Chandler without picks and Deng/Gordon involved. My point: yes, there very much is.

[air gordon]

yeh teams could be willing to Chandler and his contract. and there's going to be price to pay- you want to dump off a bad contract? then you're going to have to take one of their own.

yeh anything is possible if you want to look at it that way but are any of those scenarios even realistic??

would Cleveland want to sign and trade Gooden to get a shit contract like Chandler's, Murphy, etc? They already have Marshall who is more or less a cheaper and durable Murphy. And Varajeo is there as well. what would benefit this 3rd party team in the first place?

would GSW, who spent 3yrs developing Pietrus and is actually a better fit then Dunleavy, give up on him so easily?? nevermind does GSW even have an expiring contract player to throw in to make the salaries even?

other teams may want Murphy and his contract. the Bulls should not be one of them. his contract sucks, he's slow, bad defense, doesn't block shots, his natural jump shot is off balanced, shoots a poor % for big man, has no post game. they can easily get the same thing by resigning Songalia and he's a better passer


and if you want to get techinical- i'll rephrase:

the bulls aren't going to get a quality player(s) in return for Chandler unless they package Deng, Gordon, Hinrich or the pick

[Fenix]

Of course that Mullin would be willing to give up Pietrus. He already has Richardson at his his position and would be filling a need with getting Chandler. You seriously underestimate the stupidity of NBA GMs. A young, athletic 7 footer with a lot of potential? Don't mind that he has poor work ethic and a bloated contract. There will always be takers willing to take the risk and the point of the whole trade wouldn't be getting a quality player in return, but creating cap space. An expiring contract/veteran player and possibly a young one as well for a guy like Chandler? You can always make this happen. You went from saying that you can't trade Chandler to that you can't trade Chandler for a quality player, but that's completely off the point. Why would you want to trade Chandler? To create some cap space for next year's free agents and make room for your addition via draft/this years FA. What do you want for him? An expiring contract and possibly a young player. I mean, don't you know this is NBA? Look what Curry was traded for and he had a helluva more questions surrounding him than Chandler.

[air gordon]

stupidity= Isiah Thomas. Paxson has already raped him twice. not happening again

what have you heard about Mullin willing to trade Pietrus? it's no secret Pietrus can and does play SF

you're seriously overrating the stupidity of NBA GM's. keep on dreaming that some team is as dumb enough to give up some young player and expiring contract for Tyson Chandler. We're talking about Tyson Chandler. Go to any team board over at RealGM and propose you're appealing Chandler trade. i'll save you the time:

"why would we give up our cap for a player, let alone also include good developing player for someone like Chandler? Who's gives a shit that he's tall- he sucks ass right now. We could easily get a big man with the cap freed up from that expiring contract and we still get to keep that young player. so basically you're telling us to fuck ourselves up. the only way we even start listening is if you include one of your big guns in the deal"

[air gordon]

double post yeh but different subject matter...

some tidbits from espn's exclusive workout of Tyrus Thomas-
from everyone's Fav, Chad ford:

Thomas stands calmly at the free-throw line and swishes shot after shot. He's cool. He's been going for an hour and he's barely sweating. Every free throw is automatic.

Thomas' workout on Friday wasn't what I expected.

There were no post moves. No flying dunks. In fact, Thomas didn't dunk the ball once in his workout....

Thomas decided he would show me that his offensive skills are anything but raw.

Thomas spends the better part of an hour doing ball-handling and shooting drills.

It's clear that he was once a point guard. He handles the ball very well for a big man. He can dribble with his right and left, change directions and bring the ball up the floor. We didn't see much of that at LSU.

The shooting is a mixed bag. His jump-shooting form is very good. He's got a high, consistent release on his jumper with nice rotation. But on the day I saw him, the results were streaky.

He started off the workout missing just about everything, especially from 10 feet in. He did show a nice kiss off the glass from about eight feet in on the right side. Then, 20 minutes into the workout, his shot started to fall.

He stepped out to the college 3-point line and hit 22 of 33 during one catch-and-shoot drill. As he got tired toward the end of the workout, his shot started to come up short.

I didn't come out of the workout thinking Thomas was an amazing shooter. But he was clearly more skilled in that area than advertised. Given his shot mechanics, he looks like he'll be the type of guy who will be able to hit the 15-to-18 foot jumper."

Randy Livingston had some lines too but i'd take them with a grain of salt as well...

"I've never met a kid so driven," Livingston says. "He's an amazing guy to train. The hard part is keeping him out of the gym. We'll do a hard morning and afternoon session and a weightlifting session in between and Tyrus will call me up late at night and say, 'Randy, we got to go back to the gym tonight to get some shots up.' That's refreshing."

"I thought when I first got him that he'd be somewhere in between Amare Stoudemire and Shawn Marion," Livingston says. "But after working with him I think he's more a hybrid between Tracy McGrady and Kevin Garnett. He's not as skilled on the perimeter as Tracy, but he can do just about everything and do it with amazing athleticism. As for KG, the thing about that is that Tyrus plays with that energy and passion.

"He plays with a chip on his shoulder. That's what has made KG such an amazing player and I think it's what drives Tyrus. The kid is ultra-competitive. He's mature for his age. He's not obsessed with living the NBA lifestyle. I think all of that is going to make him successful in the league."

and From Thomas himself:

"I don't like when people say that I came out of nowhere," says Thomas. "I understand why they think that because the media or the NBA scouts didn't really know about me. But it doesn't reflect the hours I put in the gym trying to get my game to this point. Everything I'm getting right now I've worked hard for. Real hard."

Thomas said after the workout that he sees himself more as a three than a four in the pros.

"I really wasn't allowed to play the three at LSU so people don't understand that I've been either a guard or a small forward my whole life," Thomas explained. "This is the first year I've ever really played the four. I think I'll always be more comfortable on the perimeter."

the big thing here, aside from Thomas work ethic, is that Thomas said he feels more comfortable on the perimeter, sees himself more as a 3 then a 4.

i'm not sure how this would work out if he were to be a Bull but this is a shocker. For me I'm disapointed with this bit of news.

draf camp measurements tomorrow (yeah!)

[Andrew]

If the Raptors were willing to take #2 and #16 for the #1 giving the Bulls a guaranteed chance to take Aldridge, would you do it? Perhaps I'm placing too much stock in him but he would seem to be closer to the legit big man than Thomas is shaping up to be. Mind you, the latest mock draft at nbadraft.net has Aldridge going 5th with the Raptors taking Morrison. Stating the obvious here but if the Raptors do take Morrison that leaves Alridge on the board to be taken at #2...is it worth taking that risk and just doing the best they can with #2 and #16 if the Raptors do settle on Aldridge?

[Fenix]

If the Raptors were willing to take #2 and #16 for the #1 giving the Bulls a guaranteed chance to take Aldridge, would you do it? Perhaps I'm placing too much stock in him but he would seem to be closer to the legit big man than Thomas is shaping up to be. Mind you, the latest mock draft at nbadraft.net has Aldridge going 5th with the Raptors taking Morrison. Stating the obvious here but if the Raptors do take Morrison that leaves Alridge on the board to be taken at #2...is it worth taking that risk and just doing the best they can with #2 and #16 if the Raptors do settle on Aldridge?

I don't think that Aldridge is so good that he'd be worth trading #2 and a decent first round pick just for him. Even if the Raptors do select him (which I doubt that they will, especially if they keep the pick), I'm beginning to think that Bargnani and Thomas are no bigger risks than Aldridge is and that second pick allows you to get a player which fills a need of a tall guard and could very well become a very decent starter. This draft doesn't have a lot of star potential (that's why I consider #2 overall just as good as #1), but it does have a nice depth and that is where #16 comes in handy.

And yeah, draft measurements. My favourite part of the year, other than Finals and predraft combine . Thomas is still my favourite, but if measures anything less than a legit 6'10 (6'8 1/2-6'9 w/o shoes), I'll stop being a fan. Well, I'll still be a fan of him, but I wouldn't take him with 'our' pick. Bulls don't need another guy who can play PF with SF size/height, they already have that with Sweetney, Deng, Songaila and Nocioni. Legit size is what they need. And I don't think he said that he wants to be a three, that was taken out of the context. He just wanted to say and show that he he can do much more than just dunk the ball, block shots and run the court. Hell, even if he did say that, I wouldn't blame him. Bosh cried many times how he would like to play at the three more. I pray that he measures at 6'10, pray to God, devil and anyone worth praying to. Combine that with his skillset, mentality and potential, pick him at #2 and we'll get the next Shawn Kemp. (Yes, I'm going completely crazy.)

[air gordon]

IMO, just as long as Thomas doesn't measure out to something like 6'6 195lbs, it won't be a big deal

there are many articles about him being a late bloomer so it's very possible that he's still getting taller, just like Luol Deng.

yeh, Ford could have taken his quote out of context. but there's no other way to interpret: "I think I'll always be more comfortable on the perimeter" other then just that. if he's going to be drafted by the Bulls, he sure as hell start getting comfortable in the paint lol. though it was good to hear that this guy has some actual basketball skills, specifically shooting and ball handling, to go along with his meal ticket- his athleticism

as for Andrew's question- i'd like to at least wait until the draft measurements come out. lol that still may be too early to make a decision. i'll probably wait to make a decision on that after Paxson works them out/interview them. Hopefully these guys agents will let them workout against someone rather then some solo thing.

i think it's pretty funny that Aldridge hasn't done anything yet he's slippped to 5 at one site's mock draft. still 3 weeks until the draft, plenty can go on now until then

[Indy]

Hey gordon and Andrew, I have a trade proposal for you...

Tinsley/Jackson/Foster/#17 pick for Gordon/Duhon/Harrington

What do you think?

I don't know if the salaries match, but that would be the core of the deal.

[Fenix]

Holy shit, you are completely fucking crazy.

Bulls already have injury free PGs in Duhon and Hinrich, who are both in their respective roles (backup PG/starting PG) than Tinsley will ever be, Gordon has like three times the trade value of Jackson and isn't even crazy. The only one Bulls would want from that group is Foster and I don't see him so important to trade someone with All-Star future for. And a #17 pick? No need for that, Bulls will have more than enough young guys at the beginning at the season, veterans is what they need.

[Jugs]

I borrowed the Chicago Bulls - The 1990's DVD: the NBA Dynasty Series from a friend and i'm making a copy for myself. Is it worth spending one of my school holiday days watching it all?

[Andrew]

Hey gordon and Andrew, I have a trade proposal for you...

Tinsley/Jackson/Foster/#17 pick for Gordon/Duhon/Harrington

What do you think?

I don't know if the salaries match, but that would be the core of the deal.

I wouldn't take it if I were Paxson. I like Foster's hustle and intensity, Jackson's talented and Tinsley's a fine point guard when he's healthy but I don't like the idea of trading two players who have been successful in a Bulls system that has yielded two playoff appearances and seasons of .500 or better. I'd rather they hold onto them.

[Fenix]

Who do you see being traded? I think Gordon will be kept for another season or so, but problems with his size will come up sooner than later. Paxson said that he wants to move Hinrich back to PG, which probably means both on offense and defense and I can't really imagine Gordon being fine with coming off the bench for the whole season, not to mention rumours that he wants to play PG (just rumours - for now). Tyson is the odd man out, if they pick any of the skinny three (Thomas, Aldridge, Bargnani) and Duhon's status is also questionable, if another guard a la Brewer is drafted, especially now, after the back surgery.