The Celtics are unraveling...

[BIG GREEN]

Who said that they suck??

Nobody, but I get the feeling some people would say it if they lose another game. You said that they're not that great defensively because teams that are hot from 3-land or mid range give them problems, but who wouldn't be in problems with that? Shooting in the NBA sucks, if a team catches on fire from the outside they're almost sure to win. But how many good shooting teams are in the league? It's still a 3 headed race for the top spot in the NBA, even if Boston lost 3 times in a week, they're still ahead of the Cavs in the standings.

I'm not arguing whether or not they're ahead of the cavs in the standings...that's neither here nor there. Ofcourse if teams catch or fire they have a better chance to win but great defensive teams are able to atleast put a solid defender or two on them to slow down the hot shooting. I'm trying to say that boston doesn't seem to have that. Kobe and fisher for instance are considered great perimeter defenders, the spurs have bowen, the rockets brought on artest ...etc etc.

[Matthew]

You really don't know anything about basketball. You think Bowen and Artest are still "great" perimeter defenders, but Peirce, Ray and Tony Allen aren't solid? Seriously.

This has to be the most inane thread followed by equally senseless posts by you. Have you even brought up one point here?

[BigKaboom2]

Do you know what the Foe feature is?

[Matthew]

And people say I troll.

I know he has put me on foe like a schoolgirl, but that doesn't mean I can't respond to his posts. Hopefully someone will respond to mine and a discussion will take place. Imagine that...

[Drex]

I'm trying to say that boston doesn't seem to have that. Kobe and fisher for instance are considered great perimeter defenders, the spurs have bowen, the rockets brought on artest ...etc etc.

And Pierce is what? Average?

I'm not arguing whether or not they're ahead of the cavs in the standings...that's neither here nor there.

Then how can we measure which's the best team of the three? Heah-to-head stats? How they look in the past 5 games?

[BIG GREEN]

I didn't know we were doing that....I thought this discussion was about the celtics But hey...if you wanna compare teams go ahead...heh..I won't be joing you atleast.

...and yes I'd say pierce is an average defender...at best. Show me atleast 2 or 3 examples this season of him locking down anyone.

[shadowgrin]

Pierce has gotten a bit fat or slow. Even in some broadcasts he's being called "husky".

[Jackal]

...and yes I'd say pierce is an average defender...at best. Show me atleast 2 or 3 examples this season of him locking down anyone.

Would you care to do that for Bowen and Artest?

[el badman]

Pierce has gotten a bit fat or slow. Even in some broadcasts he's being called "husky".

I actually read that he had lost some weight during the summer and was a little less chunky these days...

Either way, ro reason to panic for the Celts in my opinion. Those 3 losses are concerning indeed, but I really don't see them continue with that trend, they're gonna be back on top. If they don't suffer any injury, I don't see the Big 3 going down like that.

[Drex]

I didn't know we were doing that....I thought this discussion was about the celtics

It is, and in the first post you said:

The cavaliers and the lakers both can kill you from the inside and outside...so I doubt we'll be seeing a repeat championship for this geriatric team. At this point..no one can say for sure who is better between the cavs/lakers/celtics ....but I doubt it's the celtics.

You're the one who's comparing teams in the first place.

...and yes I'd say pierce is an average defender...at best. Show me atleast 2 or 3 examples this season of him locking down anyone.

Don't need to. Show me 2 or 3 examples of Kobe, Fisher, Bowen and Artest first.

[Laxation]

lmao @ 6 players being on the court...

[Andrew]

Seems like something the officials should have taken notice of when the Celtics protested it.

[BIG GREEN]

I didn't know we were doing that....I thought this discussion was about the celtics

It is, and in the first post you said:

The cavaliers and the lakers both can kill you from the inside and outside...so I doubt we'll be seeing a repeat championship for this geriatric team. At this point..no one can say for sure who is better between the cavs/lakers/celtics ....but I doubt it's the celtics.

You're the one who's comparing teams in the first place.

...and yes I'd say pierce is an average defender...at best. Show me atleast 2 or 3 examples this season of him locking down anyone.

Don't need to. Show me 2 or 3 examples of Kobe, Fisher, Bowen and Artest first.

In other words...you can't prove peirce locking down anyone atleast 2 or 3 times this season? How about last season?...or any season? Nope? Ok then; point proven. At the end of the day, pierce does not defend the perimeter in the zone at the SF position... which is what Boston runs most of the time other than man-to-man. An effective zone needs quick point guards and shooting guards who can defend well... celtics don't have that. Don't get me wrong..they are a good defensive team...just not as good as they seemed.

[Jackal]

Thanks for completely ignoring a post which could've had some discussion. Your yearning to "discuss" is quite clear now.

[Drex]

In other words...you can't prove peirce locking down anyone atleast 2 or 3 times this season? How about last season?...or any season? Nope? Ok then; point proven. At the end of the day, pierce does not defend the perimeter in the zone at the SF position... which is what Boston runs most of the time other than man-to-man.

Is this good enough? It was 6 months ago. Or do you want more? Where are the examples of the players you mentioned "locking down" anyone? Besides, there's no such thing as a lock down defender. Players in the NBA will find a way to score no matter how good you defend them.
I know shit about statistics (maybe benji could help me here), but if you go to http://www.basketball-reference.com and look up those players mentioned above, Pierce has the lowest defensive rating (which is points allowed per 100 possesions) this season at 100, and Fisher hast the highest at 106. Again, I could be proving shit with this stats, but if there's just a small difference between those 5, I doubt there's 6 points between being a lockdown defender and "average at best".

An effective zone needs quick point guards and shooting guards who can defend well... celtics don't have that. Don't get me wrong..they are a good defensive team...just not as good as they seemed.

How about Rondo? He's pretty quick IIRC. Also, Celtics are 1st in the League in defensive rating. So they're probably better than what you think they are.

Thanks for completely ignoring a post which could've had some discussion. Your yearning to "discuss" is quite clear now.

Maybe you got foe'd.

[Jackal]

Maybe...

Maybe he's just a bitch.

[Lamrock]

Fire Doc Rivers.

[air gordon]

i'd agree w/drex here on most of his points

lock-down defender is a myth in the nba. probably originated from an agent trying to get his client some extra $ (or from some writer trying to get some attention )

btw- big green- what kind of standards are you suggesting that the Boston Celtics are being held to? they are highly ranked in several defensive categories but i don't think anyone is calling them untouchable. if the GSW game is still archived on league pass broadband- you'll see that GSW was hitting some ridiculous shots. give some credit to the W's

i think the boston zone defense works well because the players rotate so well to cover the open spots of the zone. in their nationally televised games last year and still even this year, it's been pointed out on many occasions on the telestrater "czar style". it does help too that Garnett and Rondo are lanky athletic freaks

big green- in regards to boston not having anyone to stop a hot player- in a few games Garnett has been used at the top of 1-2-2 zones to disrupt PG play. heck i specifically remember KG guarding Jose Calderon full court for most of the 4th quarter lol

[Andrew]

Well, both the Celtics and Cavaliers suffered embarrassing defeats to the Knicks and Wizards respectively. I don't think either team should push the proverbial panic button just yet but all that 70 win talk for the Celtics, Cavs and Lakers (who did win today) seems a distant memory.

[NovU]

East's Top 3 Teams Lost Today = Bron, KG, Dwite

[Andrew]

Which once again places the Lakers atop the league, albeit by a slim margin.

[Mandich]

Wow, they lost against the Knicks. Dunno whats happening with them, but they must straighten up fast, or else they'll give up the no.1 seed in the east to the Cavs

[hova-]

Well since the Cavs lost to the Wizs (who are even worse record-wise than the Knicks) I think nothing changed in case of loosing the nr. 1 seed.

Every team has slumps here and there. Loosing on the road is nothing special even for the "best" team in the league. People are overreacting ...

[Andrew]

As I said a couple of weeks back in the Lakers thread, it's probably better they drop a couple to teams they're unlikely to face in the Playoffs because that's always going to happen to good teams, it's when they can't hang with their fellow elite teams that it becomes a concern. Of all their losses, the one to the Lakers is probably the most concerning but even then they were playing in Los Angeles where they lost twice in the Finals last year. If they start racking up losses to the Cavs, Magic and the next rematch with the Lakers then it becomes worrisome. It will take a major collapse for the Celtics to miss the Playoffs but they ultimately need to be able to beat teams like that to win another championship.

Then again, all bets are off in the Playoffs. Even if the Lakers win the game in Boston it may end up meaning a lot more to the fans than it does the rest of the 2009 season. The Bulls lost to the Jazz twice in the 1998 season yet still won the championship and only once swept their eventual Finals opponent in the season series (the Blazers in the 1991/1992 season). That's not to say the regular season is meaningless but individual wins and losses tend to be overblown.

[BIG GREEN]

Welp...with another loss again this makes their 5th loss since facing the lakers with the 19 game winning streak. The trolls can try to flame me(waste of my time)....and the others can doubt me...but fact is fact. I've stated what I think of the celtics..and "unraveling" just might have been the correct words to use for them. Their faults become more and more obvious. Let's see what happens with them shall we? It should be entertaining.

Wow, they lost against the Knicks. Dunno whats happening with them, but they must straighten up fast, or else they'll give up the no.1 seed in the east to the Cavs

Too late.