Michael Jordan: "I would beat Kobe in my prime"

[Jackal]

Well thanks for making my point, I guess?

[shadowgrin]

It’s kind of like the boxing slang, “pound for pound”. On a head to head match-up, a lightweight can’t beat a heavyweight but in general, the lightweight can be “pound for pound” the best boxer in the world. In this case, Michael Jordan is “pound for pound” the best basketball player ever.

How is it remotely anything like that? We're talking about two players of similar sizes, playing styles and skill levels. It's hardly apples and oranges in that regard.

Admit it Andrew, Itsalottafun is right...

See, it makes sense.

[NovU]

damn... only if it wasn't for that cartoon, mj could have been better than kb

[Andrew]

I've got to admit I never looked at it that way. To quote Mr Burns, visual aids help so much.

[Sauru]

.

2nd of all, nobody in the history of the NBA has hit hot streaks like Kobe Bryant has. That being said, Jordan is WAYYYYY more consistent. Especially when it matters most, in the playoffs.

gotta disagree with this, its true that kobe can go on some amazing streaks i dont think he can do so more than jordan. then you say especially in the playoffs yet i have seen kobe play an endless amount of piss poor playoff games, this years nba finals being a great example. when it matters most is when jordan has always been at his best 6-0 for jordan where kobe is what 3-2?

[GuCcI08]

im a lakers fan but be4 i was also a bulls fan. bynum and ariza (only play in the nba finals and not even 80 %) was not on team in playoffs and lakers made it to nba finals. was kobe's pinky not 100 % during tha playoffs? and thats why he doesnt play aggressive like he usually do. he still doesnt play aggressive in tha olympics dont yall notice. but if kobe play mj 1on 1 7 game serie to be honest i dont kno who would win. sometimes it depends on luck and who makes tha most mistakes and who has more confidence in winning. but i think tha outcome would be 4-3 but that still wont tell who's the better player. but i still think kobe still has more to improve. wait til kobe gets surgery on his pinky and tha new lakers team. if kobe does win 3 or 4 more titles wit this new lakers team. everyone will be like...oh thats not fair kobe's team was better than the mj's team. so then we still wont kno who's the better player. but wat about kobe's 81 point no has mention it yet and the 62 point game in 3 quarter versus mavericks which was the former western conference champion. he outscored them 62-61 at end of 3 quarter and outscore the raptors in the 2nd half. so i would say kobe is the better player, but we won't kno who would win the 7 game series 1 on 1. because they are both as good as one another. at least kobe wins 2 or more titles if he doesn't then i guess we can say mj is the better player. but yall kno wat today is the hardest ever to make it into playoffs in the west. and kobe's team was in 1st place. and gasol juz only join the team in february. but for now lets see how kobe do the rest of his career then it will be better to compare than now.

[NovU]

im a lakers fan but be4 i was also a bulls fan.

then u should have seen jordan playing. highlights of both players might look similar, but the way mj played the game was totally different. kobe can be said 1vs1 type of player, but mj was more of team player(making things easier for teammate on both end of floor), and had better moves without the ball.

but wat about kobe's 81 point no has mention it yet and the 62 point game in 3 quarter versus mavericks which was the former western conference champion. he outscored them 62-61 at end of 3 quarter and outscore the raptors in the 2nd half. so i would say kobe is the better player,.

read entire posts ffs. andrew already made a good point on it.

btw, in ur theory, single game high defines who's better. that's just absurd and stupid.

at least kobe wins 2 or more titles if he doesn't then i guess we can say mj is the better player.

things aren't that simple. it wasn't the number of titles that made mj the greatest.

[GuCcI08]

who has broken more records? kobe or mj? but that won't tell who's the better player right? it just tell who's the better player in statistic. but we're talking bout who's better in basketball. i think the reason why most people says mj is better than kobe is because mj has more rings.

[Air Zoom Kobe I]

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2nd of all, nobody in the history of the NBA has hit hot streaks like Kobe Bryant has. That being said, Jordan is WAYYYYY more consistent. Especially when it matters most, in the playoffs.

gotta disagree with this, its true that kobe can go on some amazing streaks i dont think he can do so more than jordan. then you say especially in the playoffs yet i have seen kobe play an endless amount of piss poor playoff games, this years nba finals being a great example. when it matters most is when jordan has always been at his best 6-0 for jordan where kobe is what 3-2?

With the playoffs, I meant Jordan, not Kobe. We all know who the better playoff performer is between them.

[benji]

i think the reason why most people says mj is better than kobe is because mj has more rings.

But we don't listen to irrational people who equate team success entirely with personal success.

Jordan has the best statistics for any post-merger NBA player (and only Wilt and Kareem can make legitimate claims), and statistics are a recording of what a player has done on the court. And when we look at the most important statistics, Jordan makes a mockery of claims that Kobe is on his level. And if we want to pick one lone season, McGrady's 2002-03 is the Jordanesque season of the post-Jordan decade.

[Jackal]

i think the reason why most people says mj is better than kobe is because mj has more rings.

Or because he simply was better? That could be a wild, far fetched possibility too.

[GuCcI08]

i found this post on 2ksports.com:

on the court wise they are damn near the so.
if you need a stop. Both
if you need a rebound. Both
if you need a shot. Both
if you need someone to make something happen. Both
if you need a come back. Both
last but not least if you need that game winner. Both

i think people say jordan is the greatest of all time is b/c
he came in to the L at the right time.
yea it was more physical. but who did he have to guard and who guarded him.
the player like him were either at the end or were to young.

when Jordan started dominating here's the list
zek (near the end)
dumars (near end)
clyde (near the end)
grant hill ( young)
Penny (young )
Iverson (young)
payton (young)

it was a good time for him.
he didn't have to go against:
Ron Artest 6'8
AK47 6'9
melo 6'8
LBJ 6'8
bowen 6'6
T. Prince 6'9
T-mac 6'8
Peirce 6'8
night in and night out

he as guarded buy
mullen (slow
miller (skinny
kettles ( who
patyon (6'3
Starks (6'4
thunder dan (good D)
grant hill ( young)
Penny (young )
Iverson (young)

but what puts MJ in as the greatest
is the public
you really can't say rings cuz bill russell has 11
you can't sayscoring b/c he'ss not all time and didn't score 100
if you wanna go by stats the dream is in the top 10 of just about everthing.

so on the court kobe is the equal to jordan
off the court and in public eye jordan kills kobe

right now the nba is harder than it is in the 90's. anyone agree? like i said its the hardest ever now to get in playoffs in the west.

[benji]

so on the court kobe is the equal to jordan

Except for the whole part where he's worse.

[Jackal]

he as guarded buy
mullen (slow
miller (skinny
kettles ( who
patyon (6'3
Starks (6'4
thunder dan (good D)
grant hill ( young)
Penny (young )
Iverson (young)

You're an idiot. Seriously.

Jordan was guarded by whole teams, not individuals. The game of today is made in such a way that the guard can score.

Anyways, back to my point...

You're an idiot.

[Elbeen]

if you need a stop. Both
if you need a rebound. Both
if you need a shot. Both
if you need someone to make something happen. Both
if you need a come back. Both
last but not least if you need that game winner. Both

except Jordan does these better.

edit: didn't notice benji's post was similar to mine

[GuCcI08]

i think i need to watch mj play again cuz bak then i was lyke 8-16 years old. so i didnt really pay attention to basketball only mj xD. the only nba finals i watched was jazz and bulls that happen two times, but i only watch a few games. mj came to nba the year i was born now that sucks.

[Andrew]

but i still think kobe still has more to improve. wait til kobe gets surgery on his pinky and tha new lakers team.

You think that Kobe still has unrealised potential and surgery on his pinky will allow him to unleash it? Perhaps mentally Kobe will improve but aside from that, there's not much room for improvement. Are you suggesting he's a pinky injury away from averaging a triple double or something?

but wat about kobe's 81 point no has mention it yet and the 62 point game in 3 quarter versus mavericks which was the former western conference champion. he outscored them 62-61 at end of 3 quarter and outscore the raptors in the 2nd half.

Actually, it has been brought up. They are amazing feats but they don't prove he's the better player. Michael Jordan also has a long list of similar accomplishments that could be recited here.

who has broken more records? kobe or mj? but that won't tell who's the better player right? it just tell who's the better player in statistic. but we're talking bout who's better in basketball. i think the reason why most people says mj is better than kobe is because mj has more rings.

List of career achievements by Michael Jordan
Kobe Bryant Awards and Achievements

It's Michael Jordan. In fact, he holds more records in the NBA Finals alone than Kobe holds or shares in total, and five of Kobe's are "youngest player" records which while noteworthy are also a reflection of the fact he entered the NBA while he was still 17.

Records alone do not necessarily tell whom the best player was but statistics are certainly relevant in judging how good a player is or was since it's a measure of what they've actually done on the court.

but who did he have to guard and who guarded him.
the player like him were either at the end or were to young.

when Jordan started dominating here's the list
zek (near the end)
dumars (near end)
clyde (near the end)
grant hill ( young)
Penny (young )
Iverson (young)
payton (young)

This is one of the most absurd and laughably incorrect arguments I've ever seen. Michael Jordan really started dominating his third season (1986/87), at which point Joe Dumars was in his second season, Clyde Drexler in his fourth and Isiah Thomas was in his sixth season; all of them 25 or younger at the time, so I'm not sure where this "near the end" nonsense is coming from. Even if you want to classify the Bulls' championship years as Jordan's dominance, Drexler and Dumars were in their prime, not at the end.

he as guarded buy
mullen (slow
miller (skinny
kettles ( who
patyon (6'3
Starks (6'4
thunder dan (good D)
grant hill ( young)
Penny (young )
Iverson (young)

Not to mention the likes of Sidney Moncrief, Joe Dumars, Dennis Rodman, Michael Cooper and constant double teams...or a greater number of legit big men who could block and alter shots instead of flopping in the lane.

but what puts MJ in as the greatest
is the public
you really can't say rings cuz bill russell has 11
you can't sayscoring b/c he'ss not all time and didn't score 100
if you wanna go by stats the dream is in the top 10 of just about everthing.

Except that he has still has six rings, with only Robert Horry and a couple of Celtics ahead of him with Bill Russell. And of those players, only Bill Russell is also a candidate for being the greatest of all-time. He doesn't have the record for most points in the regular season, but his third all-time (ahead of Wilt) with the highest scoring average in the regular season as well as the highest scoring average in the Playoffs and the most total points in Playoff history as well. As for his other statistical accomplishments, they're listed in the link I posted earlier.

You might want to find someone else to copy and paste your arguments from in future.

right now the nba is harder than it is in the 90's. anyone agree? like i said its the hardest ever now to get in playoffs in the west.

No, because to say that is just ridiculous. I grant that it may be just as hard but harder? Not with all the soft players flopping all over the place, touch fouls on the perimeter that put players on the free throw line without even having to work for it and a league that has taken steps to speed up the game and ensure more scoring, something they did not have to do back in the day. The dominance of the West is a sign of imbalance, not a harder league. Back in the 80s and 90s there were legit contenders in both conferences in addition to teams that would simply give you one hell of a fight.

Also, if we're to believe that the expansion in 1995 that brought the Grizzlies and Raptors into the league watered it down and facilitated the 72 win season the Bulls had - a common cry by the oldtimers from the 60s and 70s - then the current league is even more dilluted with the addition of the Bobcats back in 2004.

[cyanide]

i think i need to watch mj play again cuz bak then i was lyke 8-16 years old. so i didnt really pay attention to basketball only mj xD. the only nba finals i watched was jazz and bulls that happen two times, but i only watch a few games. mj came to nba the year i was born now that sucks.

You should watch epic games from the 80's and 90's then you'll find that Larry Bird > Kobe.

[benji]

Also, if we're to believe that the expansion in 1995 that brought the Grizzlies and Raptors into the league watered it down and facilitated the 72 win season the Bulls had - a common cry by the oldtimers from the 60s and 70s - then the current league is even more dilluted with the addition of the Bobcats back in 2004.

That's only if you believe the quality of the league's players stays constant. I don't want to give away another thesis, but take a look at some of those drafts from 1986-1991, and don't ignore the four teams added at the turn of the decade.

[Matthew]

But how does it apply to anything I said?

How many games did Jordan play in 1994?

Make sense now? Maybe? No?

You missed the question.

At first I thought you were just playing ignorant to try and get under my skin but the more you post the more I'm starting to come to the conclusion that you're just not very bright. You need me to point out everything for you. The latest example is this where you're quoting a question Ben posed and something I've already addressed but then you quote a response I had for your good buddy Cyanide.

[BigKaboom2]

So you do understand that all of the games in the 1994-1995 season were not played in 1994? And you are just playing dumb?

[ThaLiveKing]

LOL. . .I'm sure it would be a great 1 on 1 match, That game would go on for hours.

Michael Jordan saying he would come on top. . .If he wins it would be by 1 point and vise versa. . . Kobe has more offensive weapons than Jordan. All Jordan really had was the fade away. Kobe Dropped 81 points in a game lol. Kobe can score at will, doesn't matter what the defense gives him.

Who ever wins that game ain't winnin by a blow out. . .both have HUGE ASS Egos, and both are VERY COMPETITIVE!!!

[Elbeen]

Kobe Dropped 81 points in a game lol.

Kobe did that against the 27-win Toronto Raptors (who had an opponent fg% of 49) in 2005-2006 season.

[ThaLiveKing]

The Raptors were blowing out the Lakers that game, Go back and watch it

[benji]

You're right! One game is definitive proof of something or other!

Kobe can score at will, doesn't matter what the defense gives him.

So, he just didn't want to score against the Celtics, Pistons and Pacers? What a jerk.