2019-2020 Season Daily Discussion

I'd put the Heat and Suns in the same basket. Their team ball could win season games but their best players are still Butler and Booker. Not bad but the some teams second best players like the Lakers and Clippers still can beat them. It's an uphill battle for team ball emphasized teams.

thats fair. i dont think either of those teams were pegged to start off this strong or considered even in the middle tier in the respective conference

im interested to see how miami is when winslow comes back. unlike the suns and ayton, winslow is a good fit with the starters.

Westbrook picked up four fouls in the first quarter against the Clippers. I can't remember seeing such a thing before, especially with a star player. Quite bizarre.

Have I brought up how much I hate the jersey choices? Tonight was Milwaukee green @ OKC orange... remember when colors used to contrast.

SMH Warriors wearing Yellow and Lakers wearing purple at Staples

Thank you Nike

That bothered me too. Also, the Warriors wearing an alternate celebrating The Bay Area, in front of a Los Angeles crowd. Makes a lot of sense.

Meanwhile, Austin Rivers calling for Doc to be T'd up and waving him off the court while making the "I'll call you" gesture was hilarious.

That was pretty funny because of my dislike for Doc. Apparently they don't have a great relationship because he was gone a lot working. Perhaps trading for Austin was Doc's way of trying to spend more time with his son and salvage the relationship

I also enjoyed JVG's joke that he'd cut his kids off if they did that, but you can't do it to Austin as he's earning $15 million a year on his own.

Melo is back. With Portland. They've definitely fallen on desperate times as most people expected them to be better than they are playing right now. They don't have Nurk but got Whiteside to fill in so I mean is the difference really the loss of Aminu & Harkless? I think Harkless played a big part in their success, as they've been looking to fill his spot with inferior options like Hezonja and Bazemore. Let's see if Melo will put on his cape and try to save this team by chucking up shots

I wonder if Crawford will get snapped up as well now that Melo is back in the league.

Melo and Whiteside on the same team lol 5 games until we hear locker room problems. Also Melo's supposedly filling the 4 spot. Good luck

Interesting, so he'll take the Aminu role of shooting 3s when left open on the weak side.

Still doesn't solve their hole at the 3

It's kinda funny how Melo's career is ending like AI's.

The Blazers offense has taken a big hit. Their shit load of above average role players are all replaced by shit players like Rodney and etceteras. Now they are adding Melo onto the pile of shit. That sounds like a shit idea to me. Nurkic might have been the best bet to fix the issues if he could co-exist with Hassan on the floor together but at this point, this season is looking more like a lost one.




LoL, Harden is almost averaging 40 ppg with excellent efficiency. But haven't watched the Rockets much so couldn't tell you guys if he's still been flopping.

It's Harden. He's been flopping.

LoL, Harden is almost averaging 40 ppg with excellent efficiency. But haven't watched the Rockets much so couldn't tell you guys if he's still been flopping.

Harden is shooting 42% this season, and is under the league average for 3P%, and has had 5 or 6 games already where he was dreadful from the field.

That is the opposite or EXCELLENT EFFICIENCY. If we are calling 42% from the floor excellent (promoting chucking), we have really, really lowered the bar. And if you did indeed watch any games, it's all the same ref baiting and theatrics.

His TS is over .600 and ORtg is 118.

FG% is not efficiency, is just a field goal percentage.

Please, kid.

What do you guys think of on going load management issue mainly revolving Kawhi’s what seems to be healthy sit outs even for a national marquee match ups.

Obviously it is bad for business but it has been proven to be a smart move. The Raptors kept Kawhi healthy by allowing him ample rest during the regular season, and he was able to play the most minutes in the entire league for the playoffs which worked out perfectly for the Raptors and their championship plan. Also fatigue and injury correlates. Would you rather have a player sit out for long period or allow resting time to time and reduce chance of injury risk.

The League fines the team for resting players without proper reasons but it is very unclear when and what types of rest is just.

I would be pissed if I paid money to see my favorite player only for him to manage his load.

I thought Jeff Van Gundy brought up a great point in regards to load management the other day. It's specious reasoning to credit load management for the Raptors' championship when they weren't the only team practising it. Obviously only one team can win the championship, but if load management is the magical ingredient and the key to success, it doesn't explain why it didn't work for anyone else instead; either by yielding a championship, or allowing them to go further in the Playoffs.

The 76ers practised it with Joel Embiid, but it didn't allow them to topple the Raptors, even though they arguably had more talent. Of course, if not for a lucky bounce, the 76ers might have defeated the Raptors in the second round. But for the bounce of the ball on a handful of plays in Game 3 of the Conference Finals, the Bucks might've been up 3-0 and gone on to the Finals instead. If not for the Warriors' injuries, they might've been victorious; they put up a good fight regardless. Had any of these feasible scenarios come to pass, nobody would be hailing load management as the secret to winning it all, because the Raptors would be in the same position as every other team that practised it and didn't win the championship.

It's like that old episode of The Simpsons where Homer reasons that the new Bear Patrol is working because he's not seeing any bears (after a lone bear made a rare appearance in Springfield). Lisa demonstrates specious reasoning by claiming that - according to the same logic - a random rock on the ground keeps tigers away.

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Load management is essentially the rock in this scenario, with winning the championship being keeping tigers away. To further the analogy, other teams had identical rocks on their front lawn, but the tigers came anyway, bringing into question how effective the rock actually was for the Raptors, or indeed, whether it had any impact at all. Dropping the metaphor, the fallacy here is that because the Raptors won the title and because they also practised load management, it's definitive proof that load management was a major factor or key strategy in their success; in other words, post hoc ergo propter hoc, or "after this, therefore because of this". By that reasoning, you could just as easily attribute their win to a pre-game ritual, or maybe Drake's enthusiastic support on the sidelines. It's something that happened and then they won.

Of course, another way to look at it is that even if it did help the Raptors, it's not for the reasons people think, or isn't applicable to other situations where the same strategy was employed (again, specious reasoning). Given that Kawhi Leonard has had some problems with injuries in recent years, keeping him out of certain games may have theoretically avoided re-injury, allowing him to be healthy and available during the Playoffs when the championship is more directly on the line. However, had he played those games and not been injured, the result could've feasibly been the same, as the worst case scenario wouldn't have presented itself. And, once again, it doesn't explain how other teams who practised load management didn't have the same success, if that is indeed the key ingredient. If the Raptors hadn't won the title, or Kawhi had played all 82 games and they'd still won, or if he'd suffered a serious injury in one of the 60 regular season games that he did play (since injuries often come down to misfortune), no one would be making implications that are a post hoc fallacy.

In short, it may be a sound strategy for Kawhi specifically given his injury history, but it's hardly a guarantee for success, and could've easily been moot due to other factors that played a role in determining the outcome of last year's Playoffs. To say that it's an approach that all teams should definitely follow if they want to win is, to break out the term of the day once again, specious reasoning.

As far as the choice of games if teams are going to employ load management strategies, it's obviously not a good look when big names are sitting out marquee matchups. It makes those games far less of an attraction, and it also makes the players themselves look uninterested in the challenge. To use a video game analogy, it's like the levelled up players in NBA 2K online who avoid fellow high level players and instead challenge weaker squads they know they can beat up on because they're severely outmatched; it says something about you if you're actively avoiding tougher competition. You'd think stars would sit out the games that their teams are able to win more comfortably and make sure they're up for the games against stronger opponents where their talents are needed, and their mettle is tested.

And look, you can say that "Oh, it's unlikely that they'll meet in the Playoffs anyway", but there's no guarantees there. Standings and seedings change, favourites are upset by underdogs, and the results of a single series can drastically alter the bracket. There's value in squaring off against top competition at full strength so that you can devise strategies and test yourself against them, because you may well end up facing them in a seven game series and you want to be prepared. Also, regular season records determine tiebreakers and seeding, and thus homecourt advantage in the postseason. Winning the season series against a potential Playoff opponent, getting as high a seeding as possible to ensure homecourt advantage, and developing effective strategies, is all pre-planning and putting yourself in the best possible position when you're playing for all the marbles.

There are situations where resting a player is advisable and potentially beneficial, and sometimes the timing isn't going to be great. That's just the way it is. There is a risk to it though as far as future implications, and while it may be rewarding - potentially, in theory - that success can also easily be attributed to factors that aren't affected by load management. As Jeff Van Gundy said, it worked out fine for the Raptors last year, but we can't focus on the one team it worked for and ignore all the others that it didn't, and declare that it's the most important factor or strategy of all. It's not accounting for anomalies, very specific situations, and everything else that led to victory.

I would be pissed if I paid money to see my favorite player only for him to manage his load.

His TS is over .600 and ORtg is 118.

FG% is not efficiency, is just a field goal percentage.

Please, kid.

Missed shots are turnovers if an OFF REB doesnt occur. So when he goes 2-18 from three, that's 16 turnovers if the other team takes possession on those misses. The ball is given to the other team without a score. They may not count as a TURNOVER on the stat sheet, but they are still turnovers

42% from the floor and under league average for 3P% is not excellent efficiency, period. If you watched him play (which basically you said you dont) you would see the absolutely terrible shot selection, the horrible flopping/flailing constantly, and the incredibly ridiculous ISO ball.

His shooting has been god awful in 5 or 6 games this year. You cant swing that as a positive, it's been dreadful.

TS% is flawed, and once again doesn't tell the whole story. It's a manufactured statistic which once again, misses a whole lot of context.

About load management, I believe it's terrible for the fans and the league itself. For the fans, whether its tickets that were bought for games to see their favorite player (or just watch your team complete with a full roster), or if you paid for league pass, it just those who pay for cable to watch their favorite team, Its a major letdown and disappointment.

Without the fans, no league exists. And 82 games has never been an issue in the past.

Play the games on the schedule if your healthy, I say.

I wonder if Crawford will get snapped up as well now that Melo is back in the league.

Many teams could use another bench scorer like Crawford, I would be shocked if he is not on an NBA team before seasons end. While he does fall flat on defense at times, not a lot of defense is being played in the NBA this season to begin with.

Andrew, I see your/their argument. But at the end of the day, you cannot deny that it's smart for the teams to put themselves in the best position to win final 16 games and healthy/well-rested players are one of the required component. I am unsure if load management doesn't work for 31 other teams is a sound argument there.

But I am on the same boat as you guys. Fans do not follow NBA to watch Kawhi to win championships. Bad for business.







As for Dee.

Harden's offense is efficient because he creates 1.18 points per possession. It's as simple as that. This is analysis 101, a very basic math principle because basketball is possession based sports. We don't need FG% or any crap you spew up there to see the truth.

Which of the following players do you think is more efficient?

Player A - 10 points
5/10 for 50 FG%

Player B - 10 points
1/5 for 25 FG%
8/8 Freethrows for 100% FT%

Even grade school children should realize the Player B has scored more efficiently because he only used 9 possessions while player A needed 10 possessions to create same 10 points.

This type of pointless discussion really tires me out and is the very reason I foe listed you in the past. Why in the world does anyone argue Harden's 40ppg is efficient is just beyond me just based on FG%. Please don't make me foe list you again.

Lebron continues to prove he's still Lebron with monster jams, magical 3s, impossible court vision (with no turnovers), and enthusiasm on the defensive end that's become contagious on the team.

[Dee4Three]

Even grade school children should realize

A reminder to me why I stay out of this section, and stay out of conversations with you specifically. Aside from your childish "kid" and "even grade school", you seldom talk real basketball, and show incredible bias (as I proved earlier). A lot of what you say is flawed, and the amount of times you pat yourself on the back when you are wrong is unbelievable.

Please, please add me back to the foe list. That would be awesome. If that was some sort of threat, I have to laugh. Talking basketball with you is almost like not talking basketball at all, and I could totally do without the child like insults and commentary.

As for Harden, you are not even watching the games (admittedly), and his efficiency is not EXCELLENT for anybody who is watching, and has seen where almost half the games he has been laughable shooting the ball, literally piss poor. His FT attempts are coming from being BAILED by the refs as a result of his head bobbing, flailing and flopping the majority of the time, and his shooting itself has been poor. Calling Harden excellent in efficiency this season shows that you have no idea what you are talking about.

Note: earlier in this thread you blamed the Rockets struggles on Westbrook, and he was playing MUCHHH better than Harden at that point. Which shows you all you need to know about your current season intellect and/or motives.

Some of James Hardens games this season

2-13 FG, 1-8 Threes, 7 Turnovers
8-29 FG, 2-18 threes, 8 Turnovers
8-21 FG, 3-14 threes, 5 Turnovers
10-31 FG, 2-16 threes, 5 Turnovers
16-41 FG, 8-22 Threes, 4 Turnovers

*all of those missed shots are Turnovers unless an offensive rebound happens, and the Rockets only average 10 OFF REB per game. Also, his FG% and 3P are lower than the Rockets team averages themselves, and lower than the league averages*

League FG%: .453%
Harden FG%: .417%

League 3P%: .349%
Harden 3P%: .332%

He is literally a BELOW AVERAGE scorer shooting the ball, outside of his FTAs (Mostly bailouts and BS). Its pure VOLUME most of the time.

The real stat, which I can manufacture stats as well, is TBS% (True BullShit Percentage). Which is a stat assigned to his free throws, and the refs. Harden leads the league in TBS%

Harden averages 14.8 FTA per game, which is only 2 less free throw attempts per game than the ENTIRE INDIANA PACERS TEAM, and only 5 less than the Sacramento Kings and Washington Wizards ENTIRE TEAMS.

Without the refs bailing him out constantly, and a league where you can't touch him, Harden is mostly just a volume shooter, a chucker, who takes his teammates out of the game. And your points per possession drops significantly. If you actually watched, and watched without being biased, you would actually see that he is bailed out constantly. It's embarrassing, honestly. And it's a bad look for the league and fans alike.

42% from the field and 33% from three if far from excellent, and to sugarcoat it by factoring in his TBS% free throws to equal a TS%, shows that you are pretty casual, and would probably fit in nicely with teen Twitter.

Again, yeah NovU, that damn chucker stat padding Westbrook was the problem in the first couple weeks of the season... (oh my).

So spare me with the "excellent efficiency".

Foe me, please. (Imagine being your age and threatening someone with a FOE list)

Last edited by Dee4Three on Tue Nov 19, 2019 5:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

Didn't read most of it but calling Harden an inefficient scorer is extremely a stupid thing while nut sagging extremely inefficient chuckers like Westy. What universe you live in?

Look at you, pitiful dumb being. You're blinded with extreme bias against some players that your argument holds no real ground at all in most conversations. Go finish your high school diploma and get some college education. Otherwise I have no real hope in you.

Welcome back to my foe list for the time being.

Didn't read most of it

Who could have seen that coming?(Couldnt have been me!)

Moving on.

Lebron continues to prove he's still Lebron with monster jams, magical 3s, impossible court vision (with no turnovers), and enthusiasm on the defensive end that's become contagious on the team.

He's certainly been amazing so far into the season but don't you feel he's slowed down quite a bit from his prime years? He's not as agile or fast but amazed to see his strength still overpowers the league.

Let's see if he can keep this level of playing.


Props to AD. He's mashing well with LBJ even though he plays off the ball a lot now.