I have spent alot of time both here at the forum (it's a great place) and also away from the forum. I have alot of thoughts on this issue. It's very complicated and I will try to make it as short post as possible, but forgive me if it turns out to be a long one.
About 4 years ago in a different game, I made an F1 3d model and skin and put it into a game/racing simulator that didn't have F1 cars. Many people enjoyed it, but one person took that car and made 20 new skins so that there was 20 cars instead of 2, so that more people could race each other online. He gave me credits but didn't ask for permission. Similar to this topic, the rule was ask for permission. I PM'd him back and forth and we argued alot and I wasn't happy. Now after a few years I realise how stupid I was being. Patchers have no rights, we hack into games and change things and other people download it. It's not our property, it's EA Sports or 2K Sports intellectual property. The only reason we get away with it is because we don't charge money for it, and we don't cost the original company any money for it. The community benefitted from that patch that guy made, and I couldn't see that because I was too concentrated on the rule about permission and my own patch being in the spotlight.
To me, the goal should always be to improve the game for the community. Not for individual patchers to make a name for themself. This is why I now always say that everyone can use my patch. When everyone works as a team it helps everybody, because high res pictures, and advice is shared. When people are only for themselves, they withhold tools (like the Chinese stuff, but more on that later), advice and only care about being the best patcher. This rule further encourages them and this is why I don't like it.
It's common courtesy to ask for permission, but it's also common courtesy to allow everyone to use your patches. If someone says no, the whole community suffers because we aren't fulltime game makers, we do this for a hobby. If you say "no you can't use my roster or courts" then people have to make those from scratch. That means they will either be rushed, poor quality or not finished at all. Which means less big patches, and less quality. For me, I think if you give credits, you have acknowledged that you didn't do the work, and that's showing respect. I know this isn't the rule, so I have to follow what the rule is, I am just stating my dislike for it.
In Live 06, I didn't even release patches. It wasn't for any major reason, I just forgot to. I made them for myself and didn't think that anyone else would care much if I released them or not. In Live 08, I felt bad about not releasing anything and released everything I could and even made some very big patches like a big roster patch including GTM's and sigshots or a full coaches pack. These wouldn't have been possible without the community, because I used IRPT roster as a base and if I had to make it from scratch I would never have bothered. And without this community I wouldn't have had high res coaches pics. The problem with Live 08, is it doesn't matter how much you try to polish a poo, it's still a poo. We don't have that problem anymore. The best thing about now and the future, is even without any patches, 2K9 or 2K10 is a quality product. Any patches are just the cherry on top of an already very tasty cake.
Since returning after at least 12 months, or 18 months.. I've noticed a few things that boggle my mind. One is this whole China vs NLSC thing. Where tools are withheld for months and then finally shared on their "terms". Is there a topic where it is explained in full so I can read the full story? And there is also a big trend where when people need something they will want to be your best friend, but if they don't need anything they ignore you. But that's getting offtopic. Why is it that some people know how to edit stadium files and others don't and it's a secret to find the tool? If I was one of those Chinese guys that made the tool, I would release as soon as possible because 500 patchers is better then 50 patchers. It means more patches and better quality to have a bigger "team" in the community. But back to the point..
I don't understand the patchers where the sole motivation is the to the best patcher. Who cares if people think you are the best or the worst patcher. The only thing that should matter is that the version of 2K9 on your PC is the best that it can be. If that means using other peoples work, or "stealing" then so be it. We don't all have time to make everything from scratch. Yes, it's nice to ask permission but I think the people that say "no" are worse for the community, then the people that "steal" but give credits. If someone "steals" and gives no credits at all, of course that is very bad. I agree that this is a banning offense because it is pretending that you made everything.
Since the rule is the rule, of course I have to follow it. I just wish some people could see the bigger picture, and not just themself. It's like there life revolves around being seen as the best patcher. Who cares. Just enjoy the game. Make the best patches that can be created.
Most likely I won't be able to release some patches, because if Migo makes a perfect Kobe and I want to give him a goatee, I won't bother spending the time make a new one, just to have a new beard. I don't care who makes it, I just want the best Kobe. But also I won't release it. Why spend 20 hours on a headshape and CF if there is already a perfect one already made? It's not about a lack of respect it's about time management. I have the greatest respect for Migo for example, who is unbelievably talented, that's why I use his patch. So that patch can't be released. I will release a bit of scratch built stuff probably, because I feel bad if I don't share (after Live 06). If no one shared their patches, we wouldn't have anything to download! It's just a bit frustrating. Because some care about their patches, more then the community. I will give an example.
Person X is a court specialist and creates some perfect FIBA international courts. Group Y of patchers work to create a FIBA Olympics patch. Person X says NO to permission for the courts. Group Y have to create a whole new set of courts, when already they have great stress and time problems trying to create the best roster and jerseys they can create. And they have no experience in court editting. End result, delayed release by a few months, or poor quality courts, or no courts release at all. Because Person X cared too much about themselves and the community suffers because the patch isn't as good as what it could have been. This has already happened on NSLC in the past. How often is there a release of a retro roster or a FIBA or NBL patch that isn't the same quality as current NBA roster?
I have respect for the admins here, and the tough job they have to police these things. I will follow the rules, but hopefully some people can understand my frustration. Also, I have to say it's great that the maker of the patch gets the final say.
Apologies for the long post, it's just a really complicated issue. Alzaga attitude is the attitude I like.
now, what did we all learn here today?
PS. I LEARN A LESSION!!!!
knowing that they need to ask permission is somewhat of a comfort.