Chicago Bulls Thread

[Matt]

If they draft Rose then they still have the assets to get a decent big man. 2 or 3 of Thomas, Hinrich, Gordon, Nocioni, Hughes, Noah and Deng could fetch an impact player and still leave enough depth for the team to be +500.

[The X]

I think Bulls should pick for frontcourt & pick up a potential 20/10 rookie in Beasley. It might be shutting the door on Tyrus Thomas to some extent, but I think they should take the best available player, and that is Michael Beasley. If the Bulls indeed make it back to the playoffs next season as everybody already suspected, then they need some scoring from their frontcourt & not just rely on a perimeter game.

[GaZuN]

I think Derik Rose Will fit more good to Bulls roster.. But i don't know.. We will see.. Hope this year we will see First round pick playing in the Regular sesson.. Not like G. Oden

[Skills]

Right now, it could go either way. IMO Rose is the better option, but no team has a selected a guard at #1 since Allen Iverson back in 1994.
Also this would work out if the Bulls plan to re-sign Deng.
If the Bulls plan to re-sign Gordon, then Beasley would be the better option. So at the same time, whoever the Bulls draft also determines which one is staying: Deng or Gordon? (since they can only afford to keep one)

[Martti.]

I think they'll pick Rose and won't resign Gordon. They'll have more money to give to Deng and a promising star in Rose. Plus Rose is a Chicago native, so Chicago's scouts have probably seen him more.

[Dan's Brain]

but no team has a selected a guard at #1 since Allen Iverson back in 1994.

It was 1996, but that's still a hell of a stat. Ties in somewhat with what I was saying, though. It's a lot tougher for a rookie guard to make an immediate impact.


EDIT: And the last guard to be the number 1 pick before Allen Iverson. Anyone?


Too late.

One Earvin "Magic" Johnson in 1979.

I hope Derrick Rose doesnt read history books.

[Andrew]

I think they'll pick Rose and won't resign Gordon. They'll have more money to give to Deng and a promising star in Rose. Plus Rose is a Chicago native, so Chicago's scouts have probably seen him more.

If they're going to get rid of Gordon, trying to get something for him would be far preferable to letting him walk for nothing. I'd still rather they keep Gordon and trade Hinrich instead, especially since they have the opportunity to replace him with top prospect in the Draft. If the Bulls pick Rose then I'd rather have someone who can score 18-22 ppg at shooting guard.

Of course, if Beasley can be an effective scorer in the frontcourt then they could go that way and elect not to make any drastic changes in the near future.

[benji]

Who would want Hinrich and his contract after this last season? Unless they bring a worse contract back in return, I mean. Similar to the Wallace for Hughes swap.

[Andrew]

That does present a certain difficulty.

[Ashman23]

Who would want Hinrich and his contract after this last season? Unless they bring a worse contract back in return, I mean. Similar to the Wallace for Hughes swap.

And that is exactly why Gooden/Thomas will be gone and Beasley will be the pick. (I'd prefer to go for Rose, btw) But, from what I've been reading the Hinrich contract is a stumbling block in moving him and going for Rose.

It's a wonderful position for Pax to find himself in anyway. If he does it right it will set us up for the next five to ten years.

Don't let the Brand thing happen again.

[magius]

If they go with Rose, it is basically a rebuild... I don't think a team based on three perimeter/wing players (deng, gordon, rose) is going to work. That is, unless Thomas becomes a star.... which I still don't see happening with three young star players all demanding the ball. Actually, I don't see it happenning... at best Thomas is a smaller Jermaine O'neal reincarnation, and I never liked O'neal. Beasly is obviously a better pick for what they have. Even though I like Rose better, if I'm in Pax's position I'd go for Beas then try and trade for Camby.

But if I can package gordon and hinrich for, say, Brand, I'd go Rose. Why the Clips would do that, I don't know, but I'd have faith that, after all, they are the Clips, and ask anyway. Rose, Deng, Brand sounds good. Hughes could probably fill at the 2, but he sucks big time without consistent ball possession.....so I'd bring him off the bench in a manu role (I'd trade him, but no one wants him). I would then maybe dangle Thomas in search for a 2, or maybe sign a fg.... then I'd try to steal Smith and Nene from Denver, but I wouldn't have very many attractive assets left, so I doubt anything would come of that. I think Noah would do well playing next to a star pf like brand.

[kinokong]

I would say trade Hinrich, Gordon, and Thomas for Brand. Or Jermaine O'Neal. Draft Rose with the 1st pick and get a solid big man like Thompson or Anderson or a high reward pick like Tomic in the 2nd round. Keep Duhon around and Chicago all of a sudden has a great future again.

[Andrew]

Apparently Avery Johnson could be a candidate again now that the Bulls have the top pick. Still, I guess we have to take anything that cites "a source" with a grain of salt. The article also mentions Dwayne Casey as well as a whole lot of other former NBA players as possible candidates too: Jeff Hornacek, Chuck Person, Tyrone Corbin, Brian Shaw and Kurt Rambis. Even Eric Snow has been mentioned as possibly jumping straight from the court to the coaching ranks, which I'm not sure about. I know that's making assumptions about Snow's abilities but a coach with more experience, even if it's just as an assistant coach, seems preferable.

A footnote in this article mentions that:

Even before Chicago won the NBA draft lottery Tuesday (and the chance to draft Memphis point guard and Chicago native Derrick Rose if it chooses), an Eastern Conference executive said the Bulls appeared willing to consider dealing point guard Kirk Hinrich.

Hinrich now becomes a possible Heat trade option if the Bulls take Rose first and leave Kansas State power forward Michael Beasley for the Heat at No. 2.

If that's true, then maybe trading Hinrich isn't such an unrealistic option after all. It begs the question who the Bulls would be getting in return though. Looking at the players who will still be under contract for the Heat next season, Blount and Banks would be the easiest package to put together. If that comes with a pick, maybe it's not so bad but far from being a shrewd deal.

If the Bulls do pick Rose then it wouldn't be a bad idea to keep Hinrich around in the short term so they've got a Plan B in case Rose doesn't adapt to the NBA immediately, though they could do the same with Duhon if they re-sign him. I'd still rather they kept Gordon so they've got that 18-22 ppg player. I don't fancy Hinrich moving over to shooting guard fulltime as I don't think he's capable of being as potent a scorer.

[magius]

Avery Johnson could be okay. That said, if I'm being a superficial racist, it does seem that the way to go is white. Looks to me like 3 out of the 4 teams vying for the championship have white coaches. Furthermore, you think about the greatest coaches in nba history... Pop, Auerbach Jackson, Daly, Riley, Nelson, Ramsay come to mind... its hard not to think theirs got to be something to it. Then I think back on the Celts-Cavs series, which to me was atrocious coaching really, and I have to wonder. Their must be some kind of subconscious thing going on here, because god knows white people aren't smarter than any other kind! So if it's me hornacek looks like the best bet. Actually, no I would try to inspire change and hire a mexican-caucasian-japanese-african female named Ohama Wang.

[Lakeshow109]

Avery Johnson could be okay. That said, if I'm being a superficial racist, it does seem that the way to go is white. Looks to me like 3 out of the 4 teams vying for the championship have white coaches. Furthermore, you think about the greatest coaches in nba history... Pop, Auerbach Jackson, Daly, Riley, Nelson, Ramsay come to mind... its hard not to think theirs got to be something to it. Then I think back on the Celts-Cavs series, which to me was atrocious coaching really, and I have to wonder. Their must be some kind of subconscious thing going on here, because god knows white people aren't smarter than any other kind! So if it's me hornacek looks like the best bet. Actually, no I would try to inspire change and hire a mexican-caucasian-japanese-african female named Ohama Wang.

WOW Race has no impact wut so ever on coaching either u know the game or u dont

but ne way i like derick rose with the bulls this could b a big step up for them in my opinion already had a decent team and they still have plenty of pieces to make other moves so im looking 4 the bulls to make a good push next season

[Martti.]

Johnson's good. He's had some experience as a coach. I don't like Snow and Jackson for the Bulls. They've had no experience as a coach.

If the Bulls bring in Avery and either Beasley or Rose, they'll have the success experts predicted them to have this season.

Check this. Five guys picked Bulls to come out of the East. Even Hollinger thought so.

[magius]

Avery Johnson could be okay. That said, if I'm being a superficial racist, it does seem that the way to go is white. Looks to me like 3 out of the 4 teams vying for the championship have white coaches. Furthermore, you think about the greatest coaches in nba history... Pop, Auerbach Jackson, Daly, Riley, Nelson, Ramsay come to mind... its hard not to think theirs got to be something to it. Then I think back on the Celts-Cavs series, which to me was atrocious coaching really, and I have to wonder. Their must be some kind of subconscious thing going on here, because god knows white people aren't smarter than any other kind! So if it's me hornacek looks like the best bet. Actually, no I would try to inspire change and hire a mexican-caucasian-japanese-african female named Ohama Wang.

WOW Race has no impact wut so ever on coaching either u know the game or u dont

but ne way i like derick rose with the bulls this could b a big step up for them in my opinion already had a decent team and they still have plenty of pieces to make other moves so im looking 4 the bulls to make a good push next season

I agree, technically race makes absolutely zero difference.

But explain to me why a non-white coach has not won a championship since 1986... that is almost 2 decades! Actually the only championship non-white coaches I can think of at the moment are K.C. Jones and Lenny Wilkens. Correct me if I am wrong. Either way, you would think in an African American dominated sport, their would be one African American coach who has achieved success in the modern era... but surprisingly no. You can call me a racist for pointing it out, but it's not my fault that it is true.

[Matthew]

I think its coincidence. There has been only 6 championship coaches since 1986 as far as I can remember (Riley, Daley, Jackson, Rudy T, Pop and Larry Brown) and I just think its coincidence that they were white. Avery Johnson got to the NBA finals and he's black. Is it racist that the finals mvp has been awarded to black's since Larry Bird? Of course not.

[magius]

I wouldn't consider it coincidence that the finals mvp has gone to a black player the majority of time, considering the majority of star players are black. The truth is, black people, in general, are given a natural physical advantage in terms of physical skills necessary to be good at this sport.

I would argue that white people are given a natural sociological and psychological advantage in regards to what it takes to be a proficient nba coach (i do not think they are born with it, but rather it has been constructed through various means, historical [colonization] and modern [media]). I do not think they were hired primarily BECAUSE they were white, but I do not think it is a coincidence that the majority of great nba coaches, throughout history, have been white. That said, I do think things are changing, albeit somewhat slowly.

[Matthew]

Or maybe they, the white coaches, were role players and there is a shared belief that role players become better coaches. Larry Bird never won a championship as a coach.

[air gordon]

the bulls have a lot of holes to fill that's for sure and both players fill a need

I'm on the pick Rose side. i'm no scout but from what i've read this Rose kid possesses the much needed pure point guard & leadership skills the team sorely lacks. along with that apparently he has off the charts athleticism and plays defense. that sounds almost too good to be true

one of the biggest frustrations this season was the PG play of the Bulls. routinely they couldn't guard opposing PG's, Hirnich is overdribbling, misses a few shots then gets scared to shoot the rest of the way and on top of that he would get in foul trouble.

the team needs someone to settle down the team when they suck ass, which they had been doing a lot last season. Hinrich is on another planet and despite the work ethic of Deng & Gordon, they aren't vocal enough

of course there are other factors to their respective teams doing well but after watching Deron Williams & Chris Paul instantly improve their ballclubs (nevermind the nba playoffs this year so far), i'm convinced the Bulls need a PG of that mold. if Rose is anything like those 2, Tyrus Thomas instantly becomes a 12/12/2 player like Chandler and drops the label as Paxson's biggest mistake

I think Rose's ability to get into the lane/create shots for himself and others/ and defend PG's makes him the better pick for this bulls team

you almost have to keep both Hirnich and Gordon if indeed Rose is drafted. their trade value right now is low after the terrible year the team had. in fact the whole team's trade value is shot other then perhaps Sefolosha. i say wait until next season starts then start making moves once Gordon/Hinrich start playing well. Forget about Duhon. Paxson can always dust off some veteran to come and play 15 minutes at the point

i'm not sure what 's going on with the coaching situation but my guess is that Paxson will pick a defense minded ooach. maybe avery Johnson, who's more or less black Scott Skiles (thats for you magius). lol i heard the mavericks were holding players only practices during the playoffs. lmao i've heard of players only meetings but that is ridiculous

last year was a nightmare but perhaps the whole contract situation with deng, gordon, hinrich/bryant trade talk/ben wallace turning into a cancer was too much for the team to overcome. maybe this kid Rose is good as advertised and the "core" players respond and pretend they are playing the Heat of Pistons every game

[The X]

Or maybe they, the white coaches, were role players and there is a shared belief that role players become better coaches. Larry Bird never won a championship as a coach.

Good point, & to add to that, the current wave of black coaches coming through the ranks seem to be role players, e.g. Avery Johnson, Mario Elie, Eric Snow. We have seen the likes of Thomas & Bird fall short, maybe it's because by being former star players, they can't relate as much to the non-star players. I don't know, food for thought though.

[shadowgrin]

I think both Larry Bird, when he said that he wasn't going to coach again after three years with the Pacers, and Michael Jordan on why he wouldn't consider a coaching job, were right with regard to most superstars not being able to make the transition into championship-winning coaches.

They said that as players they always demand the best from themselves, even if it means pushing themselves to a punishing physical/mental practice or regimen. They will eventually carry that kind of attitude to the game even as a coach and also demand the same thing from their players. That kind of approach doesn't work well for a coach because you need to understand the players on what is best to bring out their talent and not gauge them on the same standards they set for themselves as players.

Some players may respond positively to harsh prodding but it can also have negative effects and break down a player. Kwame Brown and Tyson Chandler are just a few examples that come to mind.

I hope Derrick Rose doesnt read history books.

I hope he does.
I don't want players to be dumb as rocks, especially point guards.

[Cartar]

Who would want Hinrich and his contract after this last season? Unless they bring a worse contract back in return, I mean. Similar to the Wallace for Hughes swap.

Actually there is interest in Hinrich according to realgm, don´t know how true are these, Knicks, Nuggets, Supersonics, Suns and Magic are interested getting him, I don´t know why do the Suns need him, but other teams could use him.

LINK

On another news, Noah was arrested for marijuana possesions, this looks pretty stupid for him, he could get up to 6 months in jail and a fine. Probably not that much, but still if he gets the max he would be back end of November, when season has already started, but I think he won´t get much from that, probably fine only.

LINK

[---]

When Charlotte was called as the 9th pick, I went absolutely crazy. I had been up all night and was planning on going to bed, but I decided to stay up and watch the lottery. Man was it worth it. I was imagining OJ Mayo in a Bulls uniform when we moved up, but the first overall pick was beyond anything I could imagine.

The Bulls got a huge, huge lucky break. This is not just a number one overall pick. This is a chance to break a cycle.

Think - next year, with the number nine, the Bulls would have had a minimal impact either through draft or trading the pick for a veteran. Probably net a decent player, but nothing special. Probably not even a starter.

They would of improved (let's face it, they couldn't play worse than last year), probably made the playoffs as a low seed. Get knocked out in round one or two. Be rewarded with a mid first rounder. Repeat.

Unless a superstar tried to force their way to Chicago, the Bulls would of been mediocre for the next 5 years. Never being anything more than a decent team. A big time trade, if it presentd itself, would of left the team gutted and rebuilding.

Here's our chance to net a superstar type player. A guy we can count on every single night.

Before the lottery I thought OJ Mayo was the best player in the draft. I still kind of feel that way, but now that the Bulls are in the draft slot their in, I can see why people have him as the third overall pick. He's very good - but he didn't show enough at USC. He has a good chance to become the best player in this draft, but there really isn't enough there to warrant a number one overall selection.

With the Bulls at number one and probably not looking at trading the pick or trading down, Derrick Rose is my guy.

Michael Beasley would make the Bulls better faster, I have no doubts. But he is not the right pick for the team. Let me break down my thoughts on Beasley.

He's going to be a very good scorer on the next level and create alot of mismatches. He rebounds like a freak (though wont on the next level in my opinion), he shoots the ball well, he has a complete scoring game. In my opinion he's a Carmelo Anthony type with NBA post skills. Incredibly versatile offensively, it will be very hard for anyone in the league to guard him. He will turn alot of heads quickly.

However I don't feel he is the right pick. Many people cite Beasley as the saviour for Chicago's low post scoring problems. Beasley is not and will never be a low post scorer. Placing him downlow with his back to the basket game after game only magnifies his weakness - height, and negates his strengths - ball handling, first step, explosiveness, athleticism, speed, jumpshot. So please, don't think of Michael Beasley as a back to the basket low post scorer. He is not the answer to the Bulls problems there. I also have lot's of questions about his defence. How great is it to have a guy that will score 25 in many different ways every game when he's giving up 30 on the other end? Offensively, he's great. But his defence ability really lowers his overall impact on a team.

Derrick Rose is the guy for this team. The only cons I can think of for drafting Derrick Rose are these:

A) Will lead to the trade of Kirk Hinrich, who is at an all time low trade value

B) Will not be the answer for the teams problems regarding that go-to scorer

These problems really aren't all that big. Rose will exceed Kirk on the next level rather quickly, and point guard play has been a problem for some time now. We can still net a decent package for Kirk anyway, there is no point passing on the better player for your team for the sake of another players trade value. Also, the scoring problem will not be as bad with a very good point guard running the team (who can also a good scorer) and scorers are alot easier to find than point guard talents like Rose.

The pro's for Derrick far outweight the cons.

Think of what he could do for players like Tyrus Thomas and Joakim Noah. Think of Ben Gordon's shooting ability matched with Derrick's ability to drive and dish or find open teammates out of double teams. Think about what he could do for the Bulls awful transition game. Think about what putting a very dynamic slashing point guard into a dull jumpshooting offence could do.

The guy is an elite athlete with very good size for his position. There are very, very few point guards in the league with his athleticism, strength and speed. I said a year ago that Derrick Rose was the fastest player with the ball I had ever seen on any level. I stand by that. His physical attributes are nothing short of incredible.

I cannot name a point guard with his athletic ability that also has his level of skill.

If he pans out, can you imagine a 6'4 Chris Paul with a 45 inch vertical?

He has very few weaknesses. His jumpshot needs work. He needs to be more aggressive scoring his own points.

But his game is so incredibly complete for a 19 year old kid. Save the physical ability, his range of skills are amazing. He is a very good passer. Elite ballhandler. Good defender with potential to be a lockdown defender (big wingspan, quick, very good lateral quickness). Gets to the rim like no other college point guard of the last 10 years. An elite rebounder at his position. The list goes on.

He'll make the offence run alot smoother in Chicago and in turn make his teammates better. They'll get more open shots, more easy layups, more alley oops, more time away from double teams.

Derrick Rose is my pick.

As for the coaching situation, I don't know. It's impossible to be disappointed by a coach as much as I was by Boylan. It can only get better from here. That said, I do not want Avery Johnson. Going by what Paxson has said in recent interviews, we will draft Derrick Rose. I don't want Avery to control Rose like he did Kidd while coaching Dallas. I want a coach who wont be overbearing, preach good defence and bring a more dynamic offence. I'll be happy with anyone who can do that, be it a big name coach or a small name coach.

Also, on the impending contract situations of Luol and Ben - they both need to stay. If there's a star post player available and the team asks for Hinrich plus Ben/Luol and fillers, obviously you do it. However I don't think that will happen and for that I think they both need to be resigned. Luol is our best player at the moment and Ben works his ass of and would be a very good player to match with Rose.