Freedom of speech? Yeah, whatever.

Now, this is not a movie thread.

As you might have known already, the movie "The Golden Compass", based on the book by Phillip Pullman is coming out soon, and for some reason or another, Catholic schools around parts of Canada are reviewing (and temporarily pulling) the book:

SOURCE

Calgary's Catholic School Board is pulling "The Golden Compass" from school shelves -- a children's fantasy novel that criticizes strict religious dogma and encourages readers to keep an open mind.

A board spokesperson said the book has not been banned, but will be placed under review after the Christmas break.

"At this point, as a precaution, we've removed it from the shelves out of respect for the parents who have expressed concern," Judy MacKay told CTV Calgary.

The book's author, Philip Pullman, is an atheist.

The award-winning book was first published in 1995 and is part of a trilogy, but a movie version starring Nicole Kidman and Daniel Craig is opening this Friday.

"The Golden Compass" had apparently been available at the board's school libraries for several years, but no parents had complained until recently.

Ontario's Halton Catholic District School Board yanked the novel from its library shelves about two weeks ago.

...and another quote from another forum from another thread that didn't state it's source...

SORUCE 2

LOS ANGELES (AFP) - Christian groups are up in arms here over a new children's film starring Nicole Kidman and based on an award-winning novel by British author Philip Pullman, accusing it of being anti-religious.
"The Golden Compass" which opens here Friday is the film version of "The Northern Lights," the first book in Pullman's "Dark Materials" fantasy trilogy aimed at teenage readers.

The books by confirmed agnostic Pullman trace the fate of a young girl, Lyra, as she becomes drawn into an apocalyptic battle of good against evil, meeting a host of strange characters along the way including a polar bear, voiced in the film by Ian McKellan.

Evil in Pullman's books is represented by the church, called the Magisterium, whose acolytes kidnap orphans across England to subject them to horrible experiments in the frozen northern wastelands.

"The Northern Lights" won Pullman the 1995 Carnegie Medal for children's fiction in Britain, and the final volume in his trilogy, "The Amber Spyglass" was the first ever children's novel to be awarded the prestigious British Whitbread Book of the Year award in 2002.

With its 180-million-dollar big budget movie, New Line studios is hoping to repeat the box-office success of its "Lord of the Rings" series.

And it aims to tap into the young audiences of cinema-goers who flocked to the five "Harry Potter" films making them big earners for Warner Bros.

But already "The Golden Compass" is whipping up the same controversy which saw the "Harry Potter" series based on the novels by British author J. K Rowling, accused by some on the religious right of promoting witchcraft.

The author's attack on organized religion has been toned down for the film, in a bid to attract as wide as audience as possible, something director Chris Weitz has acknowledged.

"In the books the Magisterium is a version of the Catholic Church gone wildly astray from its roots," Weitz wrote in the British Daily Telegraph.

But "if that's what you want in the film, you'll be disappointed," he warned.

However, the sanitized version of Pullman's book has failed to appease the Catholic League, which gathers some 350,000 members, and which has already been sending out leaflets denouncing the film.

"The Catholic League wants Christians to stay away from this movie precisely because it knows that the film is bait for the books," said president William Donohue.

"Unsuspecting parents who take their children to see the movie may be impelled to buy the three books as a Christmas present. And no parent who wants to bring their children up in the faith will want any part of these books," he added.

The League already took on the movie world in 2006 to denounce the blockbuster "The Da Vinci Code" and its central tenant that Jesus Christ had a child by Mary Magdalene whose descendants still survive today.

The US Conference of Catholic Bishops however has been more nuanced in its approach warning in a review of "The Golden Compass" of its "anti-clerical subtext, standard genre occult elements, character born out of wedlock, a whiskey-guzzling bear."

But it adds that "taken purely on its own cinematic terms, (it) can be viewed as an exciting adventure story with a traditional struggle between good and evil, and a generalized rejection of authoritarianism."

"The Golden Compass" will be released in some 3,000 cinemas and only 60 have so far refused to screen it, according to the industry daily Variety.

"It's this undisguised anti-religious theme that has numerous groups in a lather, but perhaps more of an issue for some ... will be the film's lack of exciting uplift and the almost unrelievedly nasty treatment of the young characters by a host of aggressively unpleasant elders," Variety added.

I read this book back Grade 8 or 9 (I forget), and well, I don't even seem to see where this is coming from. Yeah, the book has some references to the Catholic Church, but it doesn't directly attack it or anything like that.

So the Catholic Church is scared that children will question their faith after reading this book? Well, shouldn't children be allowed to be exposed to anything that is not against the law? I'm probably opening up a can of worms here, but there are certain things society agrees to not expose children to, like porn. Not the best example in the world, but no one wants a whole gang of perverted 5 year olds (although we are getting closer and closer to that already). Getting off-track here, but with this happening, are we all going backwards in terms of human rights?

Well, someone has a lousy/perverted understanding of the concept of "freedom of speech" and "human rights".

didn't state it's source...

LOS ANGELES (AFP)

Agence France-Presse

i heard alot of churches were angered about the movie saying it promote the death of god(in a chain email sent to me). personally i think the country is fucked up anyway and this book, which i never read nor will i see the movie, wont change it much

personally i think the country is fucked up anyway and this book, which i never read nor will i see the movie, wont change it much

You got that right. What a load of crap that fucking religious groups are once again going on a pathetic crusade against a work of fiction. I did see on the news that they're afraid this is gonna drive kids away from God...So what if it fucking does? Let people, even children, think for themselves and believe what they wanna believe.
And these people are the first ones to call Islamists "extremists", way to be hypocritical...

Let people ... believe what they wanna believe.

What a load of crap that fucking religious groups are once again going on a pathetic crusade against a work of fiction.

way to be hypocritical...

Yet again your smartass quoting fails miserably since you misinterprete my comments.
I'm saying here that religious groups should be ashamed of always trying to control things like these and impose their beliefs as the universal truth. They can certainly feel free to believe whatever they want, I really couldn't care less, but going on this kind of mediatic crusade and requesting boycott or censorship would probably be laughable if it was not simply fascism.

*awaiting your next misplaced tirade*

I'm saying here that religious groups should be ashamed of always trying to control things like these and impose their beliefs as the universal truth. They can certainly feel free to believe whatever they want, I really couldn't care less

Then why whine about it? Why not let them believe and do what they want?

requesting boycott or censorship would probably be laughable if it was not simply fascism.

It may be different where you're from originally, and in Canada, but the Catholic Church is not the state here. Removing books from their own shelves, and telling members they probably don't want to see the movie is well within their freedoms.

Not allowing them to do this, as JT implies he would want, that...that would be fascism.

Then why whine about it? Why not let them believe and do what they want?

Again, there's a difference between keeping your beliefs inside a group that shares the same ideas and trying to impose them on the rest of the world with such aburdities.

It may be different where you're from originally, and in Canada, but the Catholic Church is not the state here. Removing books from their own shelves, and telling members they probably don't want to see the movie is well within their freedoms.

Yes, only they're not just communicating to their "members" since they're trying to provoke a more radical action, just like what happened with "The Da Vinci Code" (which was also a fiction). Don't you think that what they're pursuing would affect people who absolutely don't care about these things and just want to see a movie? In my book, contributing to this kind of attack on freedom of speech is definitely close to a fascist concept.

Not allowing them to do this, as JT implies he would want, that...that would be fascism.

You're becoming predictable, I knew this would come up...
So the bottomline is, allowing specific groups to dictate their beliefs on the rest of the population is okay for you, right? (as long as it's Christians I guess...)

Well, someone has a lousy/perverted understanding of the concept of "freedom of speech" and "human rights".

Right. That's why I post in this forum. So I can LEARN.

didn't state it's source...

Oh, pardon me. I meant to say link it's source. Of course, it really helps with a person jumping on every mistake you make. What kind of pleasure do you get from that?

Not allowing them to do this, as JT implies he would want, that...that would be fascism.

Nah. When did I ever imply that? Was it when I misued the words human rights? I merely was saying how overreactive the Chruch is becoming in these situations.

Again, there's a difference between keeping your beliefs inside a group that shares the same ideas and trying to impose them on the rest of the world with such aburdities.

They aren't trying to impose their beliefs on the rest of the world. In one instance the books were pulled from one of their own school districts. In the other, it is just a couple groups saying "hey, we don't know if you really want to see this movie if you're concerned about anti-christian messages, despite it being possibly good".

Yes, only they're not just communicating to their "members" since they're trying to provoke a more radical action, just like what happened with "The Da Vinci Code" (which was also a fiction). Don't you think that what they're pursuing would affect people who absolutely don't care about these things and just want to see a movie? In my book, contributing to this kind of attack on freedom of speech is definitely close to a fascist concept.

So, criticizing a movie, and telling people who might be concerned and unaware, that the movie may hold "anti-Christian" themes is eliminating freedom of speech? If people don't care about it, and just want to see the movie, how is criticism from a handful of groups stopping them from doing that?

You may attribute rightly or wrongly, whatever motives you think they have, but that does not make it true. Telling people to not see a movie, or not buy something is not a restriction on freedom of speech.

The US Conference of Catholic Bishops however has been more nuanced in its approach warning in a review of "The Golden Compass" of its "anti-clerical subtext, standard genre occult elements, character born out of wedlock, a whiskey-guzzling bear."

But it adds that "taken purely on its own cinematic terms, (it) can be viewed as an exciting adventure story with a traditional struggle between good and evil, and a generalized rejection of authoritarianism."

What a vicious attack on freedom of speech!

Yeah, they really ruined that DaVicini Code, the movie only had the third biggest opening weekend ever, was the second biggest movie of 2006 and made $700+ million. And the book has only sold over 50 million copies.

So the bottomline is, allowing specific groups to dictate their beliefs on the rest of the population is okay for you, right? (as long as it's Christians I guess...)

What? Where would you get that from anything I have said? Because I think it is fine for a group to use their freedom of speech to criticize something they don't like?

Oh, pardon me. I meant to say link it's source. Of course, it really helps with a person jumping on every mistake you make. What kind of pleasure do you get from that?

None? How was I supposed to know you meant "link it's source"? I didn't know informing someone of something is "[deriving pleasure from] jumping on every mistake".

Nah. When did I ever imply that?

You were ranting about how they're taking away "freedom of speech" and "human rights". Clearly, you think something should be done to stop them. Or else, why would you even bring it up?

You may attribute rightly or wrongly, whatever motives you think they have, but that does not make it true. Telling people to not see a movie, or not buy something is not a restriction on freedom of speech.

Yeah, except it's not exactly like a review on amazon.com recommending not to see this movie in this case. You know very well that it got much more extreme than that, don't try to diminish the controversy by saying "they're just expressing their opinion on this movie", that's not what's going here. I'm pretty sure you'd be the first to make a new thread if a group had tried to keep "The Passion of Christ" to be released, or even just to "criticize" it publicly (which probably did happen)...

What a vicious attack on freedom of speech!

Where I used to live, these idiots were actually demonstrating outside the theater and keeping paying customers from entering the parking lot so they wouldn't see the Da Vinci Code...I'm pretty sure it happened in other places too, and that's an attack on freedom of speech.

You know very well that it got much more extreme than that, don't try to diminish the controversy by saying "they're just expressing their opinion on this movie", that's not what's going here.

They don't like the movie. They're telling people they don't like the movie and don't think people should see it. What else are they doing? I don't see any murdering of the filmmakers.

I'm pretty sure you'd be the first to make a new thread if a group had tried to keep "The Passion of Christ" to be released, or even just to "criticize" it publicly (which probably did happen)...

Now, why would you think that?

Where I used to live, these idiots were actually demonstrating outside the theater and keeping paying customers from entering the parking lot so they wouldn't see the Da Vinci Code...I'm pretty sure it happened in other places too, and that's an attack on freedom of speech.

That's not an attack on free speech, that's using their freedom of speech to protest. They should not have been blocking the parking lot clearly, and the theatre could've had them easily removed for obstructing private property, but that is not "attacking" free speech.

I completely misread the first post. I thought that some christian activists were going around ordering to have the book taken from shelves (ie: All bookstores, libraries, schools, etc in their area), but then I saw it was just from the Catholic schools around them. Whats the big deal?

I remember being at a friends house and seeing a book on "how to answer to a Jehovah's witness". I was bought up a Jehovah's Witness (mum let me decide when I was 14, I left it) and I'm sure as hell JW's would pull the book from shelves of places they own as well.

This thread is full of faithless heathens.