Chicago Bulls Thread

[shadowgrin]

It would be replaced by a picture of Joakim Noah. Do you still want me to take it down?

I think you'll need to put the Noah avatar up before we can decide.

He's got a point Andrew.

JN13, How about if your avatar is just a jersey with the number of Noah?
No pics of Noah but you still show your love for Noah because it's his jersey.

[Sauru]

i cant wait til the season starts, and noah turns into the mega flop many have predicted just so this noah love will come to an end once and for all

[Dan's Brain]

i cant wait til the season starts, and noah turns into the mega flop many have predicted just so this noah love will come to an end once and for all

BAH! Not in this lifetime.

[inner monologue] I wish i'd never made that stupid agreement with myself to keep this name all season long. I miss Kirk Hinrich. Now there was man-love you could be proud of [/inner monologue]

How about if your avatar is just a jersey with the number of Noah?

Not a bad idea. TO THE NBA STORE!

[-Young Buck-]

Serviceable as Gatling was back in the day, I'll take the Smith signing.

Ahhh Chris Gatling..i forgot about him. He always seemed like he never missed a shot. lol

[Andrew]

There was some talk from Ben Gordon that didn't sound to good, but it was pretty minor. He said - "If management wants me to give up one year, then I expect them to pay for it". My guess is they'll both take a long time to officially get their extensions, just like how Pax works his deals with rookies each season - there's not really any problems, but he doesn't hurry to work with contracts.

Given that he's been working hard enough to earn praise from Scott Skiles, I wouldn't doubt he's feeling a bit frustrated that an extension is being delayed. It might not be a concern just yet but I'd like to see everything smoothed over and resolved before the season begins.

Meanwhile, Skiles wasn't so thrilled about the work Tyrus Thomas has put in over the offseason.

[---]

About Tyrus, one of the guys at RealGM had a pretty good explanation. Skiles did say that Tyrus is unquestionably better this season not long after the "supposed 700 shots a day" comment. Sham, on the Bull's podcast at RealGM said it may be a case of a certain type of treatment alot of coaches use - giving the opposite feedback to what the player would expect.

They talked about how going to the whip when a player is down doesn't always work, and most of the time will make the problem worse (see: Eddy Curry, Bulls). They then said that using the opposite of what is expected can sometimes get more out of a player, so giving praise when a player isn't working so hard can sometiems work (see: Eddy Curry, New York). I found that really interesting.

If you remember Ben Gordon back as a rookie, Skiles never really praised him despite the obvious hard work he was putting in. Ben kept chasing Skiles demands and worked even harder, and look at him today. Just looking at him you can see the amount of work he has put in to his body, without even looking at his game.

I don't know if it's exactly like this, but Skiles later comments make me think he's just pushing Tyrus to work harder by giving him the whip when he's actually working hard already. I just hope Tyrus does like Ben and chases those expectations.

[Andrew]

I don't doubt that's Skiles' objective with his comments about Thomas. It's not always an effective approach because we're in an era where a lot of players seem to pout and cry foul if things aren't handed to them on a silver plate along with glowing praise; I would suggest Darko and Kwame as prime examples of that. Gordon clearly has the right attitude about working on his physical conditioning and his game and given his starting role, increased minutes and scoring opportunities last season combined with Skiles' recent comments it's fair to say he's impressed his coach. I too hope that Thomas will show a similar work ethic.

[---]

Exactly. I just really hope Tyrus doesn't have the Darko/Kwame mindset.

[Andrew]

So far it seems as though he's got the right mindset, apart from those ill-advised remarks around All-Star Weekend this year. As long as he refuses to sulk then Skiles' approach should hopefully work for him as well.

[Dan's Brain]

I'd completely forgotten about the dunk contest remarks. Shame on you, Andrew. Besmirching Tyrus' new-found good name.


Anyway, PRE-SEASON! WOO! YEAH!

The Bulls were leading most of the way against the Bucks, but a 4th quarter lapse cost them the game, as worthless as it was.

Positives: My new best mate, Joakim Noah, had a pretty solid first outing. With his usual high energy, he was really getting after it on the defensive end, and added 6 points and 4 assists to go along with a block, a steal and 4 boards.

Aaron Gray also looked the goods with 10 points and 6 boards. I'm looking forward to seeing if he can get minutes this year. I'd like to think he will. Big body, and seems to have some offensive talent inside.

And Ben Wallace had 10 points!

I wont go into any negatives, because i dont yet know what guys are capable of. And there werent any stand-outs anyway.

EDIT: Spencer Hawes looks like he could be done for the year.... I never wanted to draft him anyway...

[J@3]

Aaron Gray also looked the goods with 10 points and 6 boards.

From what I read, he's ultra slow and has "stiff" written all over him.

[---]

apart from those ill-advised remarks around All-Star Weekend this year

Just a quick note on that - Tyrus had already pledged the money to a charity before he said what he said. It was blown way out of proportion and virtually no articles stated that the money was already pledged, and that is was a light hearted joke. Still, I like the "Free Money" nickname.

I missed the preseason game, slept in. Won't happen again. I read Noah was great, Yi was absolutely terrible, and Luol was virtually unstoppable, apparently showing much improved ballhandling (especially creating his own shot) and post play. Looks like he has been working extremely hard considering he's refined both his post and perimeter ability.

And Jae, he is ultra slow, but he's actually looking like a servicable backup right now. Pretty good looking player, especially for a 2nd rounder.

[Dan's Brain]

From what I read, he's ultra slow and has "stiff" written all over him.

For a big guy who can put the ball in the basket, I can overlook foot speed. Especially, like Shannon said, for a second-rounder.

He's got good hands, and can actually pass the ball as well. Best case scenario: Vlade Divac in 3 or 4 years.

Worst case scenario: We've spent a second-round pick on a young Will Perdue.

Luol was virtually unstoppable, apparently showing much improved ballhandling (especially creating his own shot) and post play. Looks like he has been working extremely hard considering he's refined both his post and perimeter ability.

I'm so pumped for this season. Last year was terrific, but if Deng, Gordon and Tyrus have improved as reported and Noah proves to be as God-like as I'm promising he will be, then the Bulls are in the market for 55-60 wins.

[J@3]

He's got good hands, and can actually pass the ball as well. Best case scenario: Vlade Divac in 3 or 4 years.

Oh come on Divac's probably going to end up in the basketball hall of fame, Aaron Gray is a big white guy the Bulls picked in the 2nd round. If any other team had picked him up you'd be saying he was the next Jake Voshkul or something.

[---]

Aaron Gray best case scenario I would say is a poor man's Jamaal Magloire or a Rasho Nesterovic type.

[Dan's Brain]

If any other team had picked him up you'd be saying he was the next Jake Voshkul or something.

Aaron Gray is the first Bulls big that they've drafted since Elton Brand that I've actually liked. Legitimately liked. Not this infantile man-crush that I've developed for Joakim Noah's hair. Eddy Curry and Tyson Chandler always shat me. And were always more trouble than their draft positions should have allowed. We could have had Pau Gasol then. We could have had Jason Richardson.

I love Pax when he's drafting small, (read: Gordon, Hinrich, Duhon) and Deng is phenomenal, but when it comes to big men, he never really gets it right.

Gray is a no-risk prospect, and therefore, is unlikely to let me down again.

I'll stand by my Divac prediction, and when we get our sigs back, I'll put it in there, too. With an Aaron Gray watch for the next 5 years.

[Andrew]

Just a quick note on that - Tyrus had already pledged the money to a charity before he said what he said. It was blown way out of proportion and virtually no articles stated that the money was already pledged, and that is was a light hearted joke. Still, I like the "Free Money" nickname.

I certainly don't hold it against him, other players have uttered much worse. I still think it was a little ill-advised though, if only because remarks like that do get blown out of proportion. In any event, it's in the past.

[shadowgrin]

Noah proves to be as God-like as I'm promising he will be

He will be god-like alright. He will be the second coming...

...of Mikki Moore.

[Andrew]

Still no progress on extensions for Gordon and Deng. I'm not too worried but I would still feel a lot better if deals were done by the beginning of the season.

EDIT: Just saw this. Signing Deng to an extension is obviously important and I certainly want him to stick around but ignoring Gordon's contract situation and the possibility of the relationship souring isn't an appealing approach in my book.

[Dan's Brain]

Would Gordon be your top priority out of the two of them Andrew?

[Andrew]

Tough to say. Obviously I'm partial to Gordon because I've become a big fan of his these last few years but one can't shake the feeling that Deng could be on the cusp of being a really special player. All the same, I can't help but feel that Gordon's somewhat underrated.

I would like to see the situation handled similar to the way San Antonio handled the extensions for Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili a few years back, acknowledging the importance of both players and signing both to deals that reflect their market value. It's not as though the Bulls are going to be major players in the free agency market anytime soon; there's no advantage in losing their heads and overpaying to some ridiculous extent but miserly penny pinching isn't going to place them at any kind of advantage.

[Dan's Brain]

You skirted that well.


This is the best Bulls team since 1998. They have improved every season since Kirk Hinrich was drafted, and they are on the verge of being a league powerhouse with what is still a very young nucleus. They are absolutely in an enviable position in that regard. Obviously its best to strike while the iron is hot, but the iron is still really only warming up.

Both players have the ability, the potential and now the recognition to be All-Stars this coming season. And i believe that Deng has the all-round game to be pushing ever-so-slightly for an All-NBA berth within the next 20 months.

But the thing is, they are still getting better. And as they keep improving, the higher it drives their value. That rumoured 70 million could sound completely reasonable this time next year.

To answer my own question, Deng would be my priority. He's much better defensively and athletically. And while Gordon has him beat offensively, its a narrower margin.

But I'd also given Aaron Gray a max deal over both of them.

[Indy]

Aaron Gray is going to get swallowed up on the Bulls bench before he is out of the league in a few years.

Whenever Pittsburgh played a team that ran the ball on them, Aaron got tired and 10 times less effective. Whenever a team played smashmouth with them and Aaron had to really bang in the post, he backed down.

Georgetown exposed him pretty bad last year, but they weren't the only ones. Roy Hibbert really made him his bitch.

Aaron has size and skills in the lowpost, but he is not an NBA rotation player.

[air gordon]

my guess is Gray will be picking splinters out of his ass this season

look at the bulls frontcourt- Wallace, Thomas, Smith, Noah, and there's Nocioni taking some minutes at PF. maybe even viktor krapper too if he ever gets out of the doghouse

there aren't that many true centers in the league anyway. when the Bulls play against other slow, plodding centers like Z or Rasho, he'll get some tick

[Andrew]

You skirted that well.

I know. Honestly though, I'm torn. I want to say Gordon because I believe he is still a bit underrated and I admire his work ethic, attitude and ability to exceed expectations. After all, before last season it was suggested he'd never be a player who could average 20+ ppg, which he not only achieved last year but did so while attempting a modest amount of free throws and shooting respectable percentages from the field and downtown. Overall, he had a fine 2006/2007 campaign (as did Deng).

However, as I said before you still get the feeling that Deng is on the cusp of being a really, really good player and he's definitely the Bulls need to hold onto as well. The fact he's bigger and has shown flashes of a post game make him an important player to a team that lacks options inside.

But at the end of the day, I don't think the Bulls should risk alienating other player by making one a priority and gambling on the other sticking around in the hopes that their loyalty will be rewarded if they continue to work hard. Both players have a great attitude but they also both deserve recognition and as such I think the Bulls' goal should be signing both to extensions this offseason rather than choosing between the two and making the other wait.