I just got rejected last night

I did not mean to advertise liberalism as a religion, though I was pretty sure you would take it that way given the poor manner in which I worded it. Liberalism doesn't deal with anything transcendental, so it cannot be a religion.

That said - I don't believe civil marriage can exist under said liberalism, so invariably my defense of a subset of civil marriage is going to be hypocritical. Anyone trying to persuade the government to define the "purpose" of religion is a little out to lunch in my book - I don't see how that's relevant to the discussion. Likewise, socioeconomic analysis is not grounds for taking away someone's rights.

Looking back on it it wasn't really "religion to me," it just didn't seem to fit the context of the discussion.

Except, the Constitution is not vague. The religion referred to clearly is intended to be in the forms you denoted as "mainstream" and the writings would bear (how can that be?) that out. We in this instance can only accept religion as a belief in the sacred/holy/divine, usually with blatant voluntary acts of worship.

I don't agree with this at all. The Constitution is clearly vague, since there are as many interpretations of it as there are politically-minded Americans. How did you come to understand that "religion" in the Constitution refers to only theistic well-attended belief systems?

it would be establishing a state religion other than liberalism

You stated this:

I don't see how you can advocate banning gay marriage (seemingly always a religious belief) without also supporting your religion as a state religion, which would breach the First Amendment in my interpretation.

I asked:

What religion becomes the state religion if a federal law was passed against same-sex marriage?

You did not make clear how establishment of said law would be a violation of the Church-State Doctrine.

Likewise, socioeconomic analysis is not grounds for taking away someone's rights.

I did not say it was, you implied banning gay marriage was only a religious belief. I noted three "non-religious" arguments against the legalization.

I don't agree with this at all. The Constitution is clearly vague, since there are as many interpretations of it as there are politically-minded Americans.

That does not mean it is vague. There is a series of clear writings by the "father" and his copatriots.

What religion becomes the state religion if a federal law was passed against same-sex marriage?

You did not make clear how establishment of said law would be a violation of the Church-State Doctrine.

Ok, I'm addressing the two different approaches to suggesting a ban on gay marriage: the religious one fails because it is a belief of a religion being imposed by the government even on those who do not subscribe to that religion. The non-religious arguments fail because:

Likewise, socioeconomic analysis is not grounds for taking away someone's rights.

...and they simply don't make any sense when discussing it from a government standpoint.

I don't agree with this at all. The Constitution is clearly vague, since there are as many interpretations of it as there are politically-minded Americans.

That does not mean it is vague. There is a series of clear writings by the author and his copatriots.

Well I'm not familiar, so you'll have to educate me. Would you say these writings should be considered among the essential documents that define the nation? If not, I will happily to continue to interpret that Constitution as it makes the most sense to me applied to the 21st-century world.

i dont like buttfuckers

well i am straight as them come but i am going to say, you must hate me too then

I said I don't agree with the homosexuality lifestyle; I think it is immoral. However, I do have a homosexual friend and even though I don't agree with her lifestyle I don't let it get between our friendship. We simply don't talk about the morality of her preference.

I'm not saying Axel is a bad person for being gay because we know that isn't true. I just think being gay is a pretty big sin and I feel sorry for those who have to live with that ailment.

Carry on.

Do you think it's a choice?

Do you think it's a choice?

*color commentary with shadow and Shannon* And the "Cincinatti Kid" with one out of left field...Does the veteran Riot consider it an ailment or a choice? if its an ailment, how can god punish people for things he created? This could get exciting folks...

Dont forget...Joe's Italian Sausage...its not just for the brewers anymore!

Do you think it's a choice?

I honestly don't know because I haven't done much research or thought into it, but my gut tells me it's a choice and in the words of Stephen Colbert; "Trust your gut."

*color commentary with shadow and Shannon* And the "Cincinatti Kid" with one out of left field...Does the veteran Riot consider it an ailment or a choice? if its an ailment, how can god punish people for things he created? This could get exciting folks...

Dont forget...Joe's Italian Sausage...its not just for the brewers anymore!

Can't an ailment be something that becomes after birth? Therefore, man isn't always created with said ailment. So it could be a choice and an ailment...sort of like alcoholism.

Do you think it's a choice?

I honestly don't know because I haven't done much research or thought into it, but my gut tells me it's a choice and in the words of Stephen Colbert; "Trust your gut."

*color commentary with shadow and Shannon* And the "Cincinatti Kid" with one out of left field...Does the veteran Riot consider it an ailment or a choice? if its an ailment, how can god punish people for things he created? This could get exciting folks...

Dont forget...Joe's Italian Sausage...its not just for the brewers anymore!

Can't an ailment be something that becomes after birth? Therefore, man isn't always created with said ailment. So it could be a choice and an ailment...sort of like alcoholism.

The announcing will have to be passed off to someone else since i can no longer remain an unbiased party: or i could just gonzo it...Hunter Thompson ftw.

Anyway, all things on this earth were created by god, ailments are not manmade, bacteria or anything that causes ailments were all here with us when things were created. they are a part of the creation of the earth: therefore god made them. *shrugs* my logic is all

Can't an ailment be something that becomes after birth? Therefore, man isn't always created with said ailment. So it could be a choice and an ailment...sort of like alcoholism.

The announcing will have to be passed off to someone else since i can no longer remain an unbiased party: or i could just gonzo it...Hunter Thompson ftw.

Anyway, all things on this earth were created by god, ailments are not manmade, bacteria or anything that causes ailments were all here with us when things were created. they are a part of the creation of the earth: therefore god made them. *shrugs* my logic is all[/quote]

But those could also be controlled by the devil. Tempations from the darkside, no? God gives us the will to choose and live our lives freely. He gives us the oppertunity to stray from path of faithfulness. His planet has been overtaken with sin and hate...ailments are God made but are no longer under God's will. Does that make sense?

I'm really not one to talk about religion as in depth as this but it's my two cents. Take it or leave it, muthafucka.

Do you think it's a choice?

I honestly don't know because I haven't done much research or thought into it, but my gut tells me it's a choice and in the words of Stephen Colbert; "Trust your gut."

if thats true then why in the world would anyone pick a life where they are constantly ridiculed, looked down upon, and can't even marry over a normal life without that bullshit? i mean, people have enough problems as it is, why would i want to choose to take on more?

I'm not saying Axel is a bad person for being gay because we know that isn't true. I just think being gay is a pretty big sin and I feel sorry for those who have to live with that ailment.

How can one be a sinner without being a bad person?

if thats true then why in the world would anyone pick a life where they are constantly ridiculed, looked down upon, and can't even marry over a normal life without that bullshit? i mean, people have enough problems as it is, why would i want to choose to take on more?

Why would someone choose to be a pedophile? They get ridiculed and looked at as perverts but they do it because they love it. They think the benefit outweighs the risk. They obviously think what they are doing isn't bad and that they should be able to do it.

How can one be a sinner without being a bad person?

This is relatively speaking, because if we were going by sins then everyone on earth would be a bad person. However, as humans we have benchmarks as to what a good and bad person is. It's all opinion and everyone's is different. I'm not talking about in God's eyes, I'm talking about in my own two eyes. You aren't a bad person because you are gay, but I don't agree with it at all.

i see your logic to your argument, but the difference is that it's illegal to indulge in being a pedophile and it's not illegal to perform homosexual acts.

Anyway, all things on this earth were created by god, ailments are not manmade, bacteria or anything that causes ailments were all here with us when things were created. they are a part of the creation of the earth: therefore god made them. *shrugs* my logic is all

You scare me.

And benji, you did it again! Irregardless! Gaaaaaaa! Regardless of your opinion about the validity of the word, you've gotta admit that your using in the wrong context. "Irregardless" would have the opposite meaning of "regardless", yet you use it as a synonym.

/end thread jacking

Pedophilia involves an adult taking advantage of a child. Homosexuality involves two members of the same sex being attracted to eachother and engaging in consensual sex. They are completely different.

Anyway, all things on this earth were created by god, ailments are not manmade, bacteria or anything that causes ailments were all here with us when things were created. they are a part of the creation of the earth: therefore god made them. *shrugs* my logic is all

You scare me.

And benji, you did it again! Irregardless! Gaaaaaaa! Regardless of your opinion about the validity of the word, you've gotta admit that your using in the wrong context. "Irregardless" would have the opposite meaning of "regardless", yet you use it as a synonym.

/end thread jacking

Dont confuse me with riot, why is that scary? Its true isnt it?

And benji, you did it again!

Of all the words I use wrong on purpose, this is the one that keeps rankling you?

if thats true then why in the world would anyone pick a life where they are constantly ridiculed, looked down upon, and can't even marry over a normal life without that bullshit? i mean, people have enough problems as it is, why would i want to choose to take on more?

You would be surprised...I know a lot of gay people, and there a lot of kids doing it because it's "trendy", so they can complain about being "oppressed" and to get attention. For serious. The best ones, and likely truly gay at heart ones, are the ones who don't feel if I haven't mentioned they're gay in the last five minutes I probably forgot and need to be reminded.

They also agree gays should wear some kind of symbol on their clothing. And that maybe we should put them all in one location for their protection, maybe some kind of camp or something with other lesser groups like gypsies.

Pedophilia involves an adult taking advantage of a child. Homosexuality involves two members of the same sex being attracted to eachother and engaging in consensual sex. They are completely different.

Well, if the adult and the child are the same sex, they are completely the same. [/NAMBLA]

Anyway, all things on this earth were created by god, ailments are not manmade, bacteria or anything that causes ailments were all here with us when things were created. they are a part of the creation of the earth: therefore god made them. *shrugs* my logic is all

You scare me.

And benji, you did it again! Irregardless! Gaaaaaaa! Regardless of your opinion about the validity of the word, you've gotta admit that your using in the wrong context. "Irregardless" would have the opposite meaning of "regardless", yet you use it as a synonym.

/end thread jacking

Dont confuse me with riot, why is that scary? Its true isnt it?

My bad. I just skimmed through, and Riot's improper quoting in that instance confused me, I guess. It scares me because creationism scares me, and it can also imply a complete lack of societal or even individual responsibility if everything can just be chalked up to God. Many psychological ailments (not that I'm equating homosexuality with a psychological ailment) are caused or worsened by societal characteristics, for example, and therefor may not have been present at any given time in history, much less the beginning of the Earth. Things change and evolve. Not everything, in fact probably nothing except molecules and elements, that exists today would have existed at the dawn of time, if indeed there was such a thing. So no, I don't really think it's true.


And Benji, irregardless bugs me because even if it were a word, it implies the exact opposite meaning to the way you use it. And it doesn't always bug me, but sometimes I see it and something in my brain just snaps, and I need to vent my dislike of the word.

You would be surprised...I know a lot of gay people, and there a lot of kids doing it because it's "trendy", so they can complain about being "oppressed" and to get attention. For serious. The best ones, and likely truly gay at heart ones, are the ones who don't feel if I haven't mentioned they're gay in the last five minutes I probably forgot and need to be reminded.

Ugh, I hate those overly outspoken gays that walk round in woman-like clothing, bright colors, makeup, etc. that love screaming "Oh my god!! I'm so gay!". Definately attention seekers who will go to any length to get that attention. Wether or not they are actually gay, I don't care - just don't go running round annoying everyone else with your girly screams.

I was bought up a Jehovah's witness, but I'm not anymore. I was bought up to think being gay was wrong, so that's definately in my mind and still my mindset. However I haven't ever looked into it enough to form an opinion on it myself, and probably wont because it's just something I don't care about. There's way more important things in this world than wondering if/why someone is gay.

That being said - I hate overly outspkoen gays. Actually I hate overly outspoken people, so it's not really a gay thing. The whole "feminine" thing just makes it more annoying.

: benji and BigKaboom are going at it, toe to toe, shot after shot! The place is going crazy!
Throw it down big men! THROW IT DOWN!

: Just when you thought it couldn't get any more exciting, Riot comes off the bench and into the court! The place suddenly explodes with cheers and jeers!!!
The game is so important that even my co-commentators Shannon and illini are joining in! Gundy is also now playing in control!

: This benji kid is all over the court that MC5 is annoyed by benji's reckless play of the word "irregardless"!!!!

The network would like to apologize for showing you that naked person who ran across the court while shouting "i don't like buttfuckers". We regret for being unable to go into commercial break as we are broadcasting the game live.

What did I say that made it seem like I was going for something else?

Just a hunch I had I'd tell you but I don't want to end the thread or anything.

Axel this better not be another joke, I'm not wasting my time discussing your lust for men on here if it is.

Neither were jokes actually.

I'm amazed how much this thread has exploded in just a few days of not checking up on it.

I wonder how many players Axel will dickride this season. Get it? *pats self on the back*

More than you know.

Double post warning... cause I need to read it all as a whole.

Your sexuality is probably the biggest novelty on the forums at the moment, so enjoy it while it lasts I suppose lol. If it can be enjoyed that is.

You would be surprised...I know a lot of gay people, and there a lot of kids doing it because it's "trendy", so they can complain about being "oppressed" and to get attention. For serious. The best ones, and likely truly gay at heart ones, are the ones who don't feel if I haven't mentioned they're gay in the last five minutes I probably forgot and need to be reminded.

They also agree gays should wear some kind of symbol on their clothing. And that maybe we should put them all in one location for their protection, maybe some kind of camp or something with other lesser groups like gypsies.

I am not opposed to symbolic representation. In fact, I have a rainbow bracelet although I do not wear it all the time. I wear it simply to show that I will not allow the closed mindedness and hatred of others dictate the freedom with which I live my life. It's not to flaunt out that I'm gay, or to force it upon others. It's also for recognition, though not in the way you might think. Recognition among other LGBTQ people. I don't wear it with the heterosexual people in mind. It's to help identify and find similar people.

I have so many friends who are afraid of coming out because of the consequences it could have. They are afraid to have a real relationship because that would mean that those close to them would find out. So instead, they resort to having sex with multiple partners to try to fulfill their needs. I fear for them because that just means that they're putting themsleves at risk for STDs - and so much of this could be avoided if they were only free to express themselves as they would without hate.

Ugh, I hate those overly outspoken gays that walk round in woman-like clothing, bright colors, makeup, etc. that love screaming "Oh my god!! I'm so gay!". Definately attention seekers who will go to any length to get that attention. Wether or not they are actually gay, I don't care - just don't go running round annoying everyone else with your girly screams.

Don't be so presumptuous as to think that you're the reason they act this way. Most gay people I know try to take on the persona that straight people 'dont exist' so they can avoid being judged. If they are seeking recognition at all, I'm sure it has nothing to do with other straight people.

I was bought up a Jehovah's witness, but I'm not anymore. I was bought up to think being gay was wrong, so that's definately in my mind and still my mindset. However I haven't ever looked into it enough to form an opinion on it myself, and probably wont because it's just something I don't care about. There's way more important things in this world than wondering if/why someone is gay.

I could argue with you about how you obviously have formed opinions on gay people just by the way you talk, but I'm not even going to bother.