Wed Jul 11, 2007 2:12 pm
I can't believe you would rather have Sean May then Ike Diogu...
I also think Gerald Green is too low.
I also think Gerald Green is too low.
Wed Jul 11, 2007 2:13 pm
What what what? That's soo wrong.
Wed Jul 11, 2007 2:49 pm
I'll give 2005 a shot:
1.) Milwaukee- Chris Paul (PG, Wake Forest)
I see your reasoning for the Bucks taking Bogut still making sense, and they can't be faulted for that pick. However, since we are able to use hindsight, right now they have a frontcourt that features Magloire, Bogut, Yi, Vilanueva, Skinner etc. TJ Ford is gone, and Mo Williams is a free agent. They have a glaring need for backcourt help and depth. Chris Paul and Michael Redd would make one of the best backcourts in the NBA.
2.) Atlanta- Deron Williams (PG, Illinois)
Obvious reasons.
3.) Utah- Marvin Williams (F, NC)
This would have been a devastating spot for Utah, considering they had a glaring need for a point guard, and the 2 stars are off the board 1-2. Probably if this had gone down they would have traded the pick, but Marvin Williams is still good value here. He's a guy that Jerry Sloan would work wonders with. He'd also be free to slash and finish with 2 polar opposite big men in Carlos Boozer and Mehmet Okur. He'd never have to adapt his game like he does in Atlanta because of the lack of a low post scoring threat. In fact, if Marvin had gone to Utah, I think we'd have already seen him break out.
4.) New Orleans- Danny Granger (SF, New Mexico)
Tough break for New Orleans also to see the 2 point guards gone. This pick would make less sense with the way their team is constructed now, and with all the money they through at Peja. Danny is simply the best player here not named Bogut. Seeing how Tyson Chandler ended up breaking out in New Orleans, you can't argue that they should have taken the slower less athletic Bogut. Also, taking Danny probably would have kept them from overpaying for Peja and getting stuck with that contract.
5.) Charlotte- Raymond Felton (PG, NC)
He's turning out very good for the hometown Bobcats. Can't fault them here.
6.) Portland- Gerald Green (F, High School)
Imagine what Portland would look like if they had taken Gerald Green. They would have a young perimiter team with Jarret Jack/Brandon Roy and Green. Through in Oden and Aldridge and you have a young club with multiple championships in the future.
7.) Toronto- Andrew Bogut (C, Utah)
I know I'm going to get a lot of shit for Bogut falling this far. However, I think the first 2 picks are no brainers. Utah didn't really need a low post guy and picking Bogut would have probably prevented Boozer from having the All-Star year he had last season. Charlotte needed backcourt help, and Portland would have kept themselves from getting Oden by making this pick, and you can't argue that they should have done that. He fits in great in Toronto though, imagine if that team really had a Bosh/Bogut frontcourt. What a force that would be.
8.) New York Knicks- Charlie Vilanueva (F, UConn)
I really thought that the Knicks would probably reach for Charlie in this spot, and when he shockingly went one pick earlier I was disappointed that I didn't get to see if they'd pass on him or not. Isiah was a big fan of Mr.Nohair, and he would have been a nice compliment to Curry. Still will be a good player, even though the fanfair really died down after he got traded and wore a suit to work every day in Milwaukee.
9.) Golden State Warriors- Monta Ellis (G, High School)
Works out nicely no? Monta is the best guy available here, and you know if they re-did this draft they aren't getting him in the second round. Since Monta is a friend of mine, I was watching this draft getting more and more upset to see him slip. I almost lost it when Daniel Ewing and Von Wafer were drafted before my boy, but he wound up in a good place for himself.
10.) LA- Andrew Bynum (C-High School)
Quite a prospect, even though no matter what we re-do he'd still just be their most tradable asset to appease Kobe right now.
11.) Orlando- Ike Diogu (PF, ASU)
Ike next to Dwight Howard would be very scary. I'm quite happy this didn't happen, because then our trade with Golden State would have probably been for Dunleavy, Murphy and Foyle. Hehe...
12.) L.A. Clippers- David Lee (PF, Florida)
Lee was the steal of the first round, he's definitley a bright lights player so going to the Clippers would still be nice for him. He's a rich mans garbage player, if that makes any sense.
13.) Charlotte- Channing Frye (F, Arizona)
If we had done this re-do last year Frye would have been much higher. However, he is soft and one place that could definitley hide that is Charlotte. You can't make too many mistakes defensively next to Okafor, because he can guard 10 people at once. Hell, even Primoz Brezec looks good defensively sometimes thanks to Emeka.
14.) Minnesota- Jarrett Jack (PG, GT)
I like Randy Foye, but maybe if they had taken Jack, they would have kept Brandon Roy the next season. Jack and Roy is a pretty great young backcourt.
1.) Milwaukee- Chris Paul (PG, Wake Forest)
I see your reasoning for the Bucks taking Bogut still making sense, and they can't be faulted for that pick. However, since we are able to use hindsight, right now they have a frontcourt that features Magloire, Bogut, Yi, Vilanueva, Skinner etc. TJ Ford is gone, and Mo Williams is a free agent. They have a glaring need for backcourt help and depth. Chris Paul and Michael Redd would make one of the best backcourts in the NBA.
2.) Atlanta- Deron Williams (PG, Illinois)
Obvious reasons.
3.) Utah- Marvin Williams (F, NC)
This would have been a devastating spot for Utah, considering they had a glaring need for a point guard, and the 2 stars are off the board 1-2. Probably if this had gone down they would have traded the pick, but Marvin Williams is still good value here. He's a guy that Jerry Sloan would work wonders with. He'd also be free to slash and finish with 2 polar opposite big men in Carlos Boozer and Mehmet Okur. He'd never have to adapt his game like he does in Atlanta because of the lack of a low post scoring threat. In fact, if Marvin had gone to Utah, I think we'd have already seen him break out.
4.) New Orleans- Danny Granger (SF, New Mexico)
Tough break for New Orleans also to see the 2 point guards gone. This pick would make less sense with the way their team is constructed now, and with all the money they through at Peja. Danny is simply the best player here not named Bogut. Seeing how Tyson Chandler ended up breaking out in New Orleans, you can't argue that they should have taken the slower less athletic Bogut. Also, taking Danny probably would have kept them from overpaying for Peja and getting stuck with that contract.
5.) Charlotte- Raymond Felton (PG, NC)
He's turning out very good for the hometown Bobcats. Can't fault them here.
6.) Portland- Gerald Green (F, High School)
Imagine what Portland would look like if they had taken Gerald Green. They would have a young perimiter team with Jarret Jack/Brandon Roy and Green. Through in Oden and Aldridge and you have a young club with multiple championships in the future.
7.) Toronto- Andrew Bogut (C, Utah)
I know I'm going to get a lot of shit for Bogut falling this far. However, I think the first 2 picks are no brainers. Utah didn't really need a low post guy and picking Bogut would have probably prevented Boozer from having the All-Star year he had last season. Charlotte needed backcourt help, and Portland would have kept themselves from getting Oden by making this pick, and you can't argue that they should have done that. He fits in great in Toronto though, imagine if that team really had a Bosh/Bogut frontcourt. What a force that would be.
8.) New York Knicks- Charlie Vilanueva (F, UConn)
I really thought that the Knicks would probably reach for Charlie in this spot, and when he shockingly went one pick earlier I was disappointed that I didn't get to see if they'd pass on him or not. Isiah was a big fan of Mr.Nohair, and he would have been a nice compliment to Curry. Still will be a good player, even though the fanfair really died down after he got traded and wore a suit to work every day in Milwaukee.
9.) Golden State Warriors- Monta Ellis (G, High School)
Works out nicely no? Monta is the best guy available here, and you know if they re-did this draft they aren't getting him in the second round. Since Monta is a friend of mine, I was watching this draft getting more and more upset to see him slip. I almost lost it when Daniel Ewing and Von Wafer were drafted before my boy, but he wound up in a good place for himself.
10.) LA- Andrew Bynum (C-High School)
Quite a prospect, even though no matter what we re-do he'd still just be their most tradable asset to appease Kobe right now.
11.) Orlando- Ike Diogu (PF, ASU)
Ike next to Dwight Howard would be very scary. I'm quite happy this didn't happen, because then our trade with Golden State would have probably been for Dunleavy, Murphy and Foyle. Hehe...
12.) L.A. Clippers- David Lee (PF, Florida)
Lee was the steal of the first round, he's definitley a bright lights player so going to the Clippers would still be nice for him. He's a rich mans garbage player, if that makes any sense.
13.) Charlotte- Channing Frye (F, Arizona)
If we had done this re-do last year Frye would have been much higher. However, he is soft and one place that could definitley hide that is Charlotte. You can't make too many mistakes defensively next to Okafor, because he can guard 10 people at once. Hell, even Primoz Brezec looks good defensively sometimes thanks to Emeka.
14.) Minnesota- Jarrett Jack (PG, GT)
I like Randy Foye, but maybe if they had taken Jack, they would have kept Brandon Roy the next season. Jack and Roy is a pretty great young backcourt.
Wed Jul 11, 2007 3:01 pm
Yeah, at this point, it looks like Felton, Villanueva, Lee, Granger and Ellis are definitely going to be better pros than Marvin Williams. And I'd even go as far to say that Gerald Green and Andrew Bynum are better prospects than Marvin, as things now stand.
I wouldn't take any of those guys over Marvin. Felton/Ellis are close, but I will still take Marvin ahead of them, even right now knowing how their careers have gone so far.
I really think Marvin will have a 25/6/4 type season eventually.
Before the draft lottery I thought next year would be Marvin's breakout year, but now I don't know. Unless Horford plays center, Marvin will be coming off the bench.
I'd like to see Atlanta make a move to let the kid flourish as a top option and starter, but unless they move Josh Smith or Joe Johnson, it isn't happening and moving either of those guys is a bad thing.
He needs a great coach and to be put in a good position. Having Mike Woodson running the show and having a logjam at SF doesn't help him at all.
EDIT:
right now they have a frontcourt that features Magloire
Magloire plays for the Blazers.
Wed Jul 11, 2007 3:14 pm
Shannon wrote:Yeah, at this point, it looks like Felton, Villanueva, Lee, Granger and Ellis are definitely going to be better pros than Marvin Williams. And I'd even go as far to say that Gerald Green and Andrew Bynum are better prospects than Marvin, as things now stand.
I wouldn't take any of those guys over Marvin. Felton/Ellis are close, but I will still take Marvin ahead of them, even right now knowing how their careers have gone so far.
I just went back and looked at the numbers...I didn't realize Marvin put up 13, 5 and 2 which are pretty decent numbers. I'd still rather take Felton (14, 3 and 7) or Ellis (16.5, 3 and 4).
I really don't understand what Atlanta plans to do with Marvin. No way they can start him over JJ or JSmith, and Horford will probably start at the 4 and Zaza (?) at the 5. And don't forget they also have Childress. Marvin is too good of a talent to bring off the bench. They should consider trading him for a talented young point guard (would be ideal) or a center whose a defensive presence and an upgrade over Zaza.
Then again...maybe they should just stand pat. My Suns do have their first rounder this year, after all
Wed Jul 11, 2007 3:34 pm
jonthefon, I think you're right, but I only had access to Insider for a limited time years ago, maybe that's where I saw it....would be good to have access to it all the time....
Benji, you're probably right, in hindsight doing 2006 & 2007 was probably a little silly, it's a little bit too much conjecture, & after I did them, I obviously wasn't happy with them....2005 was probably a better starting point, but I've already done it, so it's all good....
Indy, not a bad re-draft, although my thought process of the re-draft is if the GM knew what type of player that they would or would not become, would they draft him higher or lower....I am factoring in team's rosters & to a lesser extent the team's mentality as they were when they were drafted....that is why I have Bogut going No. 1....clearly he isn't a top 3 or maybe even top 5 talent in this draft, relative to position, but he fitted a big need of the Bucks who already had a healthy TJ Ford who I'm guessing they never planned on trading & a young, improving Mo Williams....your draft, based on complete hindsight, not just hindsight on the player, is good....can't believe I forgot about Jarrett Jack....I will put him in my top 5 just missed....
Benji, you're probably right, in hindsight doing 2006 & 2007 was probably a little silly, it's a little bit too much conjecture, & after I did them, I obviously wasn't happy with them....2005 was probably a better starting point, but I've already done it, so it's all good....
Indy, not a bad re-draft, although my thought process of the re-draft is if the GM knew what type of player that they would or would not become, would they draft him higher or lower....I am factoring in team's rosters & to a lesser extent the team's mentality as they were when they were drafted....that is why I have Bogut going No. 1....clearly he isn't a top 3 or maybe even top 5 talent in this draft, relative to position, but he fitted a big need of the Bucks who already had a healthy TJ Ford who I'm guessing they never planned on trading & a young, improving Mo Williams....your draft, based on complete hindsight, not just hindsight on the player, is good....can't believe I forgot about Jarrett Jack....I will put him in my top 5 just missed....
Wed Jul 11, 2007 3:42 pm
The X wrote:I see where you are coming from on the Granger pick & they could possibly be switched....I still see Marvin Williams as having more star potential than Granger & that's why I have him at #4, although it should be interesting to see where he ends up....
I can see where you're coming from but right now I'd still have to pick Granger. Even if he doesn't realise much in the way of further potential, he's already a good player (I'd say good enough to go fourth in that draft as it stands today) whereas with Marvin Williams the jury is still out. That could change in a couple of years of course but right now I reckon Granger is the safer pick.
Wed Jul 11, 2007 10:37 pm
2004 NBA DRAFT RE-DONE (per The X)
1. Orlando: C/PF- Dwight Howard (picked #1)
Heading into this draft, I thought the Magic should take the experienced Okafor over this high school Christian kid. Boy was I wrong. Meka is nice, but Howard is a whole level above him & everyone else in this draft class. Magic did well.
2. Charlotte: PF- Emeka Okafor (picked #2)
I was tempted to go with Iguodala, but the Bobcats were a new expansion franchise that needed a more experienced player. This was a tough one, but I'll take the easy road & stick with Meka & hope he can stay healthy. I think if he's healthy, he's a very good PF. Not a superstar, but enough to be a fringe All-Star his entire career. Probably a gutless pick from me, if so please let me have it.
3. Chicago: SF/SG- Andre Iguodala (picked #9)
Andrew might not like this pick, passing on Gordon & Deng, both of whom I strongly considered. However I kept asking if I was a team GM, who would I want for the next 5-10 years, & the answer was a resounding Iguodala. I'm sure you wouldn't be complaining if this had happened Andrew, you would now own an Iggy jersey instead of Gordon jersey
4. LA Clippers: SG/PG- Ben Gordon (picked #3)
The Clippers needed a PG in the worst kind of way as they were starting Marko Jaric at PG & he was backed up by Rick Brunson I believe. I just didn't have the heart to put either Devin Harris or Jameer Nelson this high. I think the Clippers would have looked at Gordon & tried to envision him playing both guard positions. Eventually he would've settled in no doubt as the team's 6th man to start with, but they would've added a dynamite scoring guard to their team.
5. Washington: PF- Al Jefferson (picked #13)
I'm going to have the Wizards keeping this pick & not trading for Jamison. At the time the Wiz had an all-star backcourt in Arenas & Hughes, but no frontcourt at all. Al Jefferson would've developed into that low post option that the team needs going into the future.
6. Atlanta: PG- Jameer Nelson (picked #20)
The Hawks were running with Tyronn Lue & Kenny Anderson so either Harris or Nelson would've helped. I tip my hat to Nelson, not because he is better than Deng for that matter, but due to the fact he was ready to come in & play straight away at the PG spot.
7. Chicago: SF- Luol Deng (picked #7)
This would've caused a logjam at SF, but considering how he's turned out, I'm sure the Bulls wouldn't be complaining one bit. I'm sure the Bulls wouldn't be complaining about a current core of Hinrich, Iggy, Deng, Nocioni, Ben Wallace & more.
8. Toronto: PF/C- Anderson Varejao (picked #30)
The Raptors badly needed height with this pick. Varejao would've been able to step in & give this team energy & heart straight away.
9. Philadelphia: PG- Devin Harris (picked #5)
This pick would've allowed Iverson to play more SG that year as Harris would play off the bench as a combo guard.
10. Cleveland: SG- Kevin Martin (picked #26)
The Cavs get an absolute steal at 10 (maybe he should be at 9) & have drafted someone who will become Lebron's running mate for years to come.
11. Golden State: C/PF- Andris Biedrins (picked #11)
The Warriors got this pick absolutely correct. He's the perfect big man for the way they play.
12. Seattle: SG/PG- Delonte West (picked #24)
Coming off a playoff appearance, West would've strengthened the bench's backup guard spots. There are no good big men available at this juncture to go that way..
13. Portland: SF/PF- Josh Smith (picked #17)
The Jailblazers were an issue & this pick wasn't going to resolve it, so they can just grab the best available player in Josh Smith. If he could've stayed out of the way of the troubled characters, he might have been alright here. Then again, probably not. JR Smith at Blazers was much too risky for the Jailblazers.
14. Utah: SG- JR Smith (picked #18)
I was tempted to drop Chris Duhon in this spot, that's how much of a drop off there is after this pick, but Jazz needed a PG and a SG. Sloan could've kicked Smith into gear, perhaps. Either way, it would've been a solid pick at this spot.
Three toughest omissions: Dorrell Wright (#19), Chris Duhon (#38) & Trevor Ariza (picked #43).
Three biggest flops: Rafael Araujo (picked #8), Luke Jackson (picked #10), Sebastian Telfair (#13)
Shite, what a crap draft after the best 15, most of the rest of them didn't make the NBA or amounted to sweet, bugger all. Ahh well, next up is the 2003 do-over draft. I'll probably post it in the next day or two.
1. Orlando: C/PF- Dwight Howard (picked #1)
Heading into this draft, I thought the Magic should take the experienced Okafor over this high school Christian kid. Boy was I wrong. Meka is nice, but Howard is a whole level above him & everyone else in this draft class. Magic did well.
2. Charlotte: PF- Emeka Okafor (picked #2)
I was tempted to go with Iguodala, but the Bobcats were a new expansion franchise that needed a more experienced player. This was a tough one, but I'll take the easy road & stick with Meka & hope he can stay healthy. I think if he's healthy, he's a very good PF. Not a superstar, but enough to be a fringe All-Star his entire career. Probably a gutless pick from me, if so please let me have it.
3. Chicago: SF/SG- Andre Iguodala (picked #9)
Andrew might not like this pick, passing on Gordon & Deng, both of whom I strongly considered. However I kept asking if I was a team GM, who would I want for the next 5-10 years, & the answer was a resounding Iguodala. I'm sure you wouldn't be complaining if this had happened Andrew, you would now own an Iggy jersey instead of Gordon jersey
4. LA Clippers: SG/PG- Ben Gordon (picked #3)
The Clippers needed a PG in the worst kind of way as they were starting Marko Jaric at PG & he was backed up by Rick Brunson I believe. I just didn't have the heart to put either Devin Harris or Jameer Nelson this high. I think the Clippers would have looked at Gordon & tried to envision him playing both guard positions. Eventually he would've settled in no doubt as the team's 6th man to start with, but they would've added a dynamite scoring guard to their team.
5. Washington: PF- Al Jefferson (picked #13)
I'm going to have the Wizards keeping this pick & not trading for Jamison. At the time the Wiz had an all-star backcourt in Arenas & Hughes, but no frontcourt at all. Al Jefferson would've developed into that low post option that the team needs going into the future.
6. Atlanta: PG- Jameer Nelson (picked #20)
The Hawks were running with Tyronn Lue & Kenny Anderson so either Harris or Nelson would've helped. I tip my hat to Nelson, not because he is better than Deng for that matter, but due to the fact he was ready to come in & play straight away at the PG spot.
7. Chicago: SF- Luol Deng (picked #7)
This would've caused a logjam at SF, but considering how he's turned out, I'm sure the Bulls wouldn't be complaining one bit. I'm sure the Bulls wouldn't be complaining about a current core of Hinrich, Iggy, Deng, Nocioni, Ben Wallace & more.
8. Toronto: PF/C- Anderson Varejao (picked #30)
The Raptors badly needed height with this pick. Varejao would've been able to step in & give this team energy & heart straight away.
9. Philadelphia: PG- Devin Harris (picked #5)
This pick would've allowed Iverson to play more SG that year as Harris would play off the bench as a combo guard.
10. Cleveland: SG- Kevin Martin (picked #26)
The Cavs get an absolute steal at 10 (maybe he should be at 9) & have drafted someone who will become Lebron's running mate for years to come.
11. Golden State: C/PF- Andris Biedrins (picked #11)
The Warriors got this pick absolutely correct. He's the perfect big man for the way they play.
12. Seattle: SG/PG- Delonte West (picked #24)
Coming off a playoff appearance, West would've strengthened the bench's backup guard spots. There are no good big men available at this juncture to go that way..
13. Portland: SF/PF- Josh Smith (picked #17)
The Jailblazers were an issue & this pick wasn't going to resolve it, so they can just grab the best available player in Josh Smith. If he could've stayed out of the way of the troubled characters, he might have been alright here. Then again, probably not. JR Smith at Blazers was much too risky for the Jailblazers.
14. Utah: SG- JR Smith (picked #18)
I was tempted to drop Chris Duhon in this spot, that's how much of a drop off there is after this pick, but Jazz needed a PG and a SG. Sloan could've kicked Smith into gear, perhaps. Either way, it would've been a solid pick at this spot.
Three toughest omissions: Dorrell Wright (#19), Chris Duhon (#38) & Trevor Ariza (picked #43).
Three biggest flops: Rafael Araujo (picked #8), Luke Jackson (picked #10), Sebastian Telfair (#13)
Shite, what a crap draft after the best 15, most of the rest of them didn't make the NBA or amounted to sweet, bugger all. Ahh well, next up is the 2003 do-over draft. I'll probably post it in the next day or two.
Last edited by The X on Thu Jul 12, 2007 8:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Thu Jul 12, 2007 12:18 am
No Shaun Livingston? Or am i in the wrong draft?
Thu Jul 12, 2007 12:39 am
Only thing I disagree with is Josh Smith, who would've easily justified a top 5 pick. He's going to be better than Nelson, Varejao, Harris, Kevin Martin, Biedrins and West when it's all said and done.
Thu Jul 12, 2007 3:22 am
Varejao and Nelson should be a bit lower. Harris, Kevin Martin, Biedrins, Josh Smith... those are all guys that are more valuable than Varejao or Nelson.
Thu Jul 12, 2007 4:52 am
Joakim_Noah13 wrote:No Shaun Livingston? Or am i in the wrong draft?
If we are doing drafts with hindsight allowed, why the hell would you want to draft Shaun Livingston?
Thu Jul 12, 2007 4:58 am
Looking forward to the 2003 draft. Want to see where you'd draft Milicic (if at all).
Yeah, I agree. If I was the Raptors GM I'd take Biedrins instead of Varejao (of course, not counting the hair factor
).
Silas wrote:Varejao and Nelson should be a bit lower. Harris, Kevin Martin, Biedrins, Josh Smith... those are all guys that are more valuable than Varejao or Nelson.
Yeah, I agree. If I was the Raptors GM I'd take Biedrins instead of Varejao (of course, not counting the hair factor
).
Thu Jul 12, 2007 8:37 am
Dro wrote:Only thing I disagree with is Josh Smith, who would've easily justified a top 5 pick. He's going to be better than Nelson, Varejao, Harris, Kevin Martin, Biedrins and West when it's all said and done.
honestly, after the top 4 or 5 or so, I really had a tough time....there was a lot of switching around....
so Josh Smith was a top 5?!? above Okafor or Iguodala or Al Jefferson?!? I honestly doubt that....I wouldn't have him above Deng either....the earliest you could have him in this mock is at 6 to Atlanta, but I don't think it's the best fit, so he slid a little based on team needs, that's all....I think the Nelson & Varejao picks are both stretches, & I know there was better on offer, but it came down to where the team was at....
Silas wrote:Varejao and Nelson should be a bit lower. Harris, Kevin Martin, Biedrins, Josh Smith... those are all guys that are more valuable than Varejao or Nelson.
yep, I know those two should probably be slight lower in the lottery & that I prefer Harris & the others over them, but for me, it just came down to where the team was at....maybe switch Harris & Nelson if you like, I probably did a couple of times....
Indy wrote:Joakim_Noah13 wrote:No Shaun Livingston? Or am i in the wrong draft?
If we are doing drafts with hindsight allowed, why the hell would you want to draft Shaun Livingston?
Indy's right, would anyone really spend draft him with a lottery pick knowing that he would have injury after injury....
as you will probably see in my 1986 re-draft, there won't be any Len Bias, not because he wasn't super talented, but due to his death 2 days after the draft....
JT_55 wrote:Looking forward to the 2003 draft. Want to see where you'd draft Milicic (if at all).Silas wrote:Varejao and Nelson should be a bit lower. Harris, Kevin Martin, Biedrins, Josh Smith... those are all guys that are more valuable than Varejao or Nelson.
Yeah, I agree. If I was the Raptors GM I'd take Biedrins instead of Varejao (of course, not counting the hair factor
I know how the top 5 is going to go in the 2003 draft, but after that, I'm not really sure....Darko will definitely be in lottery I'd say, perhaps in top 10, but I've got to look at the draft & the teams drafting & work from there....
as for Biedrins, I don't know if Toronto would have been a good situation for him as Golden State was....I'm factoring in potential destinations & team needs & culture into the equation....Biedrins has more upside, but put him on Toronto, I don't think he does better than Varejao....Toronto just needed a big guy at the time who could rebound, defend & provide energy which Sideshow Bob does....either way, both would've made better picks than Araujo
Thu Jul 12, 2007 8:51 am
The X wrote:Dro wrote:Only thing I disagree with is Josh Smith, who would've easily justified a top 5 pick. He's going to be better than Nelson, Varejao, Harris, Kevin Martin, Biedrins and West when it's all said and done.
honestly, after the top 4 or 5 or so, I really had a tough time....there was a lot of switching around....
so Josh Smith was a top 5?!? above Okafor or Iguodala or Al Jefferson?!? I honestly doubt that....I wouldn't have him above Deng either....the earliest you could have him in this mock is at 6 to Atlanta, but I don't think it's the best fit, so he slid a little based on team needs, that's all....I think the Nelson & Varejao picks are both stretches, & I know there was better on offer, but it came down to where the team was at....
What I meant was that Josh Smith is *arguably* worthy of a top-5 pick. Look at the numbers: 18ppg, 9rpg, 3apg and 3bpg...and he's only 22 years old. I'd take him over Al Jefferson (16, 11, 1 and 1.5bpg). He's on par with Iguodala (18, 6 6 and 2spg) and Okafor (14, 11, 1 and 3bpg). I'd take him over West, Biedrins, KMart, Harris, Nelson and ESPECIALLY Varejao in a heartbeat. Deng and Howard are the only two players in that draft who are ahead of Josh Smith at this point, IMO.
Also, keep in mind, when Josh Smith was drafted the Hawks didn't have the logjam at PF and SF that they do now. Joe Johnson, Marvin Williams, Shelden Williams, and Al Horford were all doing their thangs elsewhere, so a SF/PF hybrid was a perfect fit for them.
Now that I look back...Kevin Martin was the steal of the draft at #26, but Josh Smith was a HUGE steal at #17.
Thu Jul 12, 2007 1:24 pm
Dro wrote:What I meant was that Josh Smith is *arguably* worthy of a top-5 pick. Look at the numbers: 18ppg, 9rpg, 3apg and 3bpg...and he's only 22 years old. I'd take him over Al Jefferson (16, 11, 1 and 1.5bpg). He's on par with Iguodala (18, 6 6 and 2spg) and Okafor (14, 11, 1 and 3bpg). I'd take him over West, Biedrins, KMart, Harris, Nelson and ESPECIALLY Varejao in a heartbeat. Deng and Howard are the only two players in that draft who are ahead of Josh Smith at this point, IMO.
I didn't realise he averaged 16.5ppg, 8.5rpg, 3apg & 3bpg until I looked just then....although he did take about 37 minutes per game to do that, & only shot around 44% from the field & around 25% from the 3pt line & 68% from FT line....also around 3 turnovers per game....so when I factor in all that, the numbers don't look as good....it's hard to tell with him because he's on a bad team, but granted I probably put him a few picks too low....
on a rethink & taking differing opinions into account, maybe it should look like:
1. Orl - Howard
2. Cha - Okafor
3. Chi - Iguodala
4. LAC - Gordon
5. Was - Jefferson
6. Atl - Deng
7. Chi - Jo. Smith
8. Tor - Harris
9. Phi - Nelson
10. Cle - Martin
11. GSW - Biedrins
12. Sea - Varejao
13. Por - Ariza/West
14. Uta - JR Smith
what does everyone think of that order, a little more appropriate?!?
Last edited by The X on Thu Jul 12, 2007 7:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Thu Jul 12, 2007 1:34 pm
Looks good, except I'd probably switch Martin and Nelson. At the time, Philadelphia had Allen Iverson, and now they've got Andre Miller. They didn't have Iguodala yet, so I think Martin would be a better fit.
Thu Jul 12, 2007 4:43 pm
Yeah, a bit more appropriate, but still doesn't solve Toronto's problem. Why would they need Harris?
Thu Jul 12, 2007 7:56 pm
Silas wrote:Looks good, except I'd probably switch Martin and Nelson. At the time, Philadelphia had Allen Iverson, and now they've got Andre Miller. They didn't have Iguodala yet, so I think Martin would be a better fit.
Allen Iverson was always more of a SG. The team I felt needed a PG, more than SG. If you deemed the team needed a SG, then Martin is your man. If it's a PG, then it's Philadelphia native Nelson....
JT_55 wrote:Yeah, a bit more appropriate, but still doesn't solve Toronto's problem. Why would they need Harris?
They had Rafer Alston as their starting PG, which was always never a long term solution....I couldn't have them grabbing a SG like Martin as they had Jalen Rose (team's leading scorer that season I believe), Vince Carter & Morris Peterson, meaning they were stocked....that's originally why I had them taking Varejao, because a big man was their biggest need....from my perspective, it's either Harris or Varejao....still better than Araujo....
Thu Jul 12, 2007 8:46 pm
2003 NBA DRAFT RE-DONE (per The X)
1. Cleveland: SF- Lebron James (picked #1)
It was a lock back then, it's a lock now & it will be a lock in 10 years time.
2. Detroit: PF- Chris Bosh (picked #4)
Dwayne Wade might be considered the number 2 prospect in this class, but it doesn't mean he goes number 2. The Pistons were one of the best teams in the East & had Hamilton at SG & Prince at SF (nullifying the need for Wade & Melo to some degree) & didn't need an immediate impact player, they were after a big man with potential to become a superstar. The problem is Joe Dumars took the wrong one, he should've drafted Bosh, who I believe when all is said & done, will be the number 2 player overall in this draft. The interesting thing about this pick is that if the Pistons had of taken Bosh, would they have still made the mid-season trade for Rasheed Wallace?!? I think they still would have, but it's not a certainty.
3. Denver: SF- Carmelo Anthony (picked #3)
Melo was a perfect fit for the high octane Nuggets & he remains that way. I wouldn't change this pick for anything.
4. Toronto: SG- Dwayne Wade (picked #5)
Don't worry Raptors' fans, missing out on Bosh doesn't seem so bad when Dwayne Wade falls into your laps. Wade is the best player available & a gimme at this pick.
5. Miami: PG- Kirk Hinrich (picked #7)
The Heat were stacked at the forward position with Odom, Caron Butler & Brian Grant. They did not need Josh Howard at this stage. They needed a PG to bring everyone together. Hinrich was the best PG on the clock & I think they would've snapped him up had Wade & Bosh been off the board.
6. LA Clippers: C- Chris Kaman (picked #6)
Maybe not the right pick, but they needed a centre or PG. They already had guys like Maggette & Q & Simmons, so Howard seems off again.
7. Chicago: SF- Josh Howard (picked #29)
The Bulls needed a lot of help, even at SF, so this pick would've been a great coup for the Bulls in turning the franchise around.
8. Milwaukee: PG- TJ Ford (picked #8)
The Bucks needed a PG, this works. Can't fault this pick now or then.
9. New York: SG/PG- Leandrinho Barbosa (picked #28)
At the time, the Knicks did not have Marbury, they had Charlie Ward & Howard Eisley splitting the starting PG duties. At this pick, they can choose between SG's in PG's bodies in either Mo Williams or Barbosa, but the ageing Knicks probably needed speed & athleticism a little bit more at this stage, so this pick could fly.
10. Washington: SF/PF- Boris Diaw (picked #21)
The Wizards had Arenas, Hughes & Stackhouse in the backcourt, probably didn't want to take a big man project like Darko due to also having Kwame Brown, so a versatile swing forward who can do a bit of everything & doesn't need to score to be effective sounds like a good fit. Boris Diaw is the man.
11. Golden State: C/PF- Darko Milicic (picked #2)
The Warriors are a perfect spot for Darko, as they play more uptempo, trigger happy basketball. This pick would've meanted Darko's career started on a good note. It would've also meant that the Warriors likely would've passed on Biedrins too. I like this pick & glad he scraped into the lottery. If he didn't go here, he probably falls out of the lottery.
12. Seattle: PF- David West (picked #18)
A Sonics team led by gunners like Ray Allen, Rashard Lewis, Ronald Murray, Vladimir Radmanovic & Brent Barry needed someone to get it done inside. David West would be a steal at this pick for the Sonics & a good foundation for their future.
13. Memphis: PG- Maurice Williams (picked #47)
The Grizzlies take the best available player in Mo Williams, who will be groomed as the PG of their future, & a much better pick than Marcus Banks as the did IRL.
Five toughest omissions: Aleksandar Pavlovic (#19), Luke Walton (#32), Steve Blake (#38), Zaur Pachulia (#42) & Marquis Daniels (undrafted).
Five biggest flops: Reece Gaines (picked #15), Troy Bell (picked #16), Zarko Cabarkapa (#17), Zoran Planinic (#22) & Ndudi Ebi (#26).
A strong draft indeed, especially the top 4 all being superstars. Very deep as well. I didn't even mention other role players like Luke Ridnour, Kyle Korver, Jason Kapono, James Jones Nick Collison, Mickael Pietrus, Jarvis Hayes, Travis Outlaw, Willie Green, Michael Sweetney, Kendrick Perkins & Brian Cook I'll probably post the 2002 re-draft in the next day or two.
1. Cleveland: SF- Lebron James (picked #1)
It was a lock back then, it's a lock now & it will be a lock in 10 years time.
2. Detroit: PF- Chris Bosh (picked #4)
Dwayne Wade might be considered the number 2 prospect in this class, but it doesn't mean he goes number 2. The Pistons were one of the best teams in the East & had Hamilton at SG & Prince at SF (nullifying the need for Wade & Melo to some degree) & didn't need an immediate impact player, they were after a big man with potential to become a superstar. The problem is Joe Dumars took the wrong one, he should've drafted Bosh, who I believe when all is said & done, will be the number 2 player overall in this draft. The interesting thing about this pick is that if the Pistons had of taken Bosh, would they have still made the mid-season trade for Rasheed Wallace?!? I think they still would have, but it's not a certainty.
3. Denver: SF- Carmelo Anthony (picked #3)
Melo was a perfect fit for the high octane Nuggets & he remains that way. I wouldn't change this pick for anything.
4. Toronto: SG- Dwayne Wade (picked #5)
Don't worry Raptors' fans, missing out on Bosh doesn't seem so bad when Dwayne Wade falls into your laps. Wade is the best player available & a gimme at this pick.
5. Miami: PG- Kirk Hinrich (picked #7)
The Heat were stacked at the forward position with Odom, Caron Butler & Brian Grant. They did not need Josh Howard at this stage. They needed a PG to bring everyone together. Hinrich was the best PG on the clock & I think they would've snapped him up had Wade & Bosh been off the board.
6. LA Clippers: C- Chris Kaman (picked #6)
Maybe not the right pick, but they needed a centre or PG. They already had guys like Maggette & Q & Simmons, so Howard seems off again.
7. Chicago: SF- Josh Howard (picked #29)
The Bulls needed a lot of help, even at SF, so this pick would've been a great coup for the Bulls in turning the franchise around.
8. Milwaukee: PG- TJ Ford (picked #8)
The Bucks needed a PG, this works. Can't fault this pick now or then.
9. New York: SG/PG- Leandrinho Barbosa (picked #28)
At the time, the Knicks did not have Marbury, they had Charlie Ward & Howard Eisley splitting the starting PG duties. At this pick, they can choose between SG's in PG's bodies in either Mo Williams or Barbosa, but the ageing Knicks probably needed speed & athleticism a little bit more at this stage, so this pick could fly.
10. Washington: SF/PF- Boris Diaw (picked #21)
The Wizards had Arenas, Hughes & Stackhouse in the backcourt, probably didn't want to take a big man project like Darko due to also having Kwame Brown, so a versatile swing forward who can do a bit of everything & doesn't need to score to be effective sounds like a good fit. Boris Diaw is the man.
11. Golden State: C/PF- Darko Milicic (picked #2)
The Warriors are a perfect spot for Darko, as they play more uptempo, trigger happy basketball. This pick would've meanted Darko's career started on a good note. It would've also meant that the Warriors likely would've passed on Biedrins too. I like this pick & glad he scraped into the lottery. If he didn't go here, he probably falls out of the lottery.
12. Seattle: PF- David West (picked #18)
A Sonics team led by gunners like Ray Allen, Rashard Lewis, Ronald Murray, Vladimir Radmanovic & Brent Barry needed someone to get it done inside. David West would be a steal at this pick for the Sonics & a good foundation for their future.
13. Memphis: PG- Maurice Williams (picked #47)
The Grizzlies take the best available player in Mo Williams, who will be groomed as the PG of their future, & a much better pick than Marcus Banks as the did IRL.
Five toughest omissions: Aleksandar Pavlovic (#19), Luke Walton (#32), Steve Blake (#38), Zaur Pachulia (#42) & Marquis Daniels (undrafted).
Five biggest flops: Reece Gaines (picked #15), Troy Bell (picked #16), Zarko Cabarkapa (#17), Zoran Planinic (#22) & Ndudi Ebi (#26).
A strong draft indeed, especially the top 4 all being superstars. Very deep as well. I didn't even mention other role players like Luke Ridnour, Kyle Korver, Jason Kapono, James Jones Nick Collison, Mickael Pietrus, Jarvis Hayes, Travis Outlaw, Willie Green, Michael Sweetney, Kendrick Perkins & Brian Cook I'll probably post the 2002 re-draft in the next day or two.
Last edited by The X on Fri Jul 13, 2007 8:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Thu Jul 12, 2007 8:53 pm
you said Martin was a #10 pick, but he was 26th
Thu Jul 12, 2007 8:59 pm
Qballer wrote:you said Martin was a #10 pick, but he was 26th
cheers, adjusted that....I know he went 26th, I must have forgot to change it when I copied the previous template....
Thu Jul 12, 2007 9:30 pm
I think David West should go before Darko and TJ Ford/Chris Kaman should switch places. IMO West is a hell of alot better than Darko. Remember, West dropped almost 20/10 this season (18/8) and had a 17/8 season the year before. Darko's best season was 8/5. I know David West is something like 4 years older, but at least he has proven he is a good player. Not many 20/10 guys in this league, David West should be one soon enough - Darko on the other hand, well he has potential. 4 years of "potential" and done nothing.
I think the Clippers take TJ Ford, he's quite alot better than Kaman who doesn't seem to be improving and also fills a need.
I think the Clippers take TJ Ford, he's quite alot better than Kaman who doesn't seem to be improving and also fills a need.
Thu Jul 12, 2007 10:36 pm
man.. shannon is making good points all over the forum
just my thoughts exactly... except the ones in my famous controversial nash-kidd overrated thread
just my thoughts exactly... except the ones in my famous controversial nash-kidd overrated thread
Fri Jul 13, 2007 12:22 am
u listed both Josh Howard and Leandro Barbosa picked at # 29