Chicago Bulls Thread

[maes]

John Hollinger thinks Hawes is a major bust on the Titanic level...even if the Bulls don't draft Hawes i'll be curious to see how he turns out.

[---]

Anyone listen to Pax's interview?

http://www.670thescore.com/pages/153118 ... entId=1800

Sounds lke he's taking Hawes or Noah to me, probably leaning towards Hawes. I think Noah will be gone before 9, so I'm happy with Hawes.

Can't wait till the draft.

[air gordon]

still? that's all I was ever saying. no, you can't just pair any average player next to a star, there are certain players that are just more effective in said situation - for the star and for themselves. For example, rafer alston is not a preferred "average player" to pair with a star.

make up your mind-you contradicted yourself. you said earlier he would be a solid 2nd guard if you put him next to a star player.

i wouldn't call hinrich a great defensive player, more like a good one. gordon can only handle the pg, and even then not spectacularly to say the least.

lol am i debating with "matt" or "flop" or whatever he/she goes by now? hinrich not a great defensive player? fine then explain why. otherwise i think you're just saying that to disagree with me. and btw i'm probably the biggest hinrich critic of the bulls fan here but i have to give his due respect. and it's about time he made all defensive team

as for gordon it's obvious he's the poorer defender between him and hinrich. why mention again? and have you even watched their games to see he's improved from being highway 7 his rookie year to at least an average defender?? or that he does in fact guard SG's? probably not

anyway, if you're fine with the bulls backcourt that is fine. i guess time will tell, but i personally think it is a safe bet that building around a core of gordon, hinrich, deng will garner zero championships.

no shit sherlock. if they can't get at the least a competent scorer in the post, it's not happening lol

you really want me to say 0.310 or whatever the number, hypothetically could be? i think its reasonable to say a third.

lol what's the motive in mentioning all this in the first place? it seems like you're just looking for anything to rip on regarding the Bulls franchise. go right ahead lol. btw what's your fav team? i'd like to return the favor

Wallace will make $15.5 mil. they have a small backcourt. Paxson settles. despite these horrific negatives, the team is in a pretty good situation.

Draft
I read the Bulls worked out Spencer Hawes again. I can't tell if this is a good or bad thing for Hawes...does this mean they like him? Or does this mean there is some concern/division about drafting him so they brought him back in for a 2nd look?

Anyone listen to Pax's interview?

other then "i'm going to find a player that will improve the team", i don't believe a word Pax says. the draft is less then a day away, there's no way he's going to reveal his cards. the Bulls have worked out or seen at workouts ~40 prospects. lol wtf.

as for hawes- how many unathletic centers have succeed in the NBA the last few years? or at the least been good post scorers? i know there's Ilgauskas but the dude was pretty agile pre-injury and is 7'3. There's Brad Miller but he's more perimeter oriented. I guess you can say Kaman but that's nothing to get excited over and he did that for just one year

last year i thought they were going with Tyrus but this year, i have no clue, especially since it's still an unkown who's going no.3-8. my guess is Pax will trade the pick/trade up to pick if doesn't have the choice to pick from Yi. Noah & Hawes

[magius]

first off, whats with all the sarcastics "lol, lol" and "no shit sherlock" bullshit? if you want to discuss something intelligently, i'll reply, but if you're gonna yap your mouth like some pubescent valley girl maybe you should shut it. also, i'm sick of all this crap going on whenever someone disagrees with anothers pov, it always inevitably leads to one or the other saying "omg you should go watch the games! you don't know basketball!" What the fuck makes you some goddamn omniscient, all mighty authority? i may not watch as many games as you, being as i'm not a diehard bulls fan, but it doesnt mean you automatically know better than me or anyone else you disagree with. thats fucking ridiculous. grow up.

make up your mind-you contradicted yourself. you said earlier he would be a solid 2nd guard if you put him next to a star player.

no, i didn't contradict myself. maybe you misinterpreted what I was saying, but I was always saying that I thought duhon could be a good backcourt partner next to a star player. I have no idea how you think i am contradicting myself.

lol am i debating with "matt" or "flop" or whatever he/she goes by now? hinrich not a great defensive player? fine then explain why. otherwise i think you're just saying that to disagree with me. and btw i'm probably the biggest hinrich critic of the bulls fan here but i have to give his due respect. and it's about time he made all defensive team

believe me, i'm not "just saying that to disagree with you." I think he is a good defensive player not a great one. Maybe your and mine's definition of what distinguishes good from great is different, but, to me, "great" = dpoy calibre defense.

as for gordon it's obvious he's the poorer defender between him and hinrich. why mention again? and have you even watched their games to see he's improved from being highway 7 his rookie year to at least an average defender?? or that he does in fact guard SG's? probably not

I never said he didn't improve. But, for example, if ben wallace improves, offensively, from 6 ppg to 7 ppg, am I going to applaud him because of his 'improved offense'? No. I mentioned him 'again' because you mentioned that he could only guard the pg, I reiterated it to agree with you, but also, in my mind, to point out that his deficiencies, to me, are not made up by hinrich's capabilities. When you're playing with such a small backcourt, imho i just think it is so much easier to create mismatches.

no shit sherlock. if they can't get at the least a competent scorer in the post, it's not happening lol

that is what i've been saying all along, in my mind, the sacrifice of one or two of them is worth it for a post presence.

lol what's the motive in mentioning all this in the first place? it seems like you're just looking for anything to rip on regarding the Bulls franchise. go right ahead lol. btw what's your fav team? i'd like to return the favor

not really, i actually like the bulls, I would like to see them win, that is why I'm putting out my opinion describing how I think they could win.

the motive in mentioning it was I was looking at how the salaries matched, and noticed ben wallace's salary. The figure jumped out at me, maybe you could trade him and gordon for garnett's contract i thought, but i really liked the idea of a wallace garnett frontcourt so I edited the latter part out.

my favorite team is san antonio.

Wallace will make $15.5 mil. they have a small backcourt. Paxson settles. despite these horrific negatives, the team is in a pretty good situation.

I never said it was a horrible situation. I would like to see chicago win a championship though, and I don't think this setup can do so in respect to the competition.

[Dan's Brain]

In an act of heart-warming solidarity or sickening premature bandwagoning, i have decided to change my display name to that of the Bulls' first round pick, and keep that up until the end of the season or until they are traded, whichever comes first. (Theoretically, this could only last 15 minutes)

[---]

In an act of heart-warming solidarity or sickening premature bandwagoning

I'm pumped for the draft, I made my mock but I know as soon as one of those high picks (Charlotte?) are traded its all gonna fall apart.

[Dan's Brain]

With about half an hour to go (Australian time - fuck it's early. i havent seen 9 a.m. for quite some time), my Bulls draft preferences go a little something like this:


1. Yi

2. Noah

3. Hawes

Unless, of course, Oden and Durant slip.


With all the attention that Yi has been getting over the last 72 hours, i dont think he's going to last beyond three. I do like him a lot now.

[---]

Joakim or Spencer?

Or someone else?

Aaaargh a moment to go.

EDIT: I dunno about this. Joakim is basically Tyrus right now. We need post scoring, not more rebounding and shot blocking.

Hopefully he turns out.

[Indy]

Hey Shannon, how many times did I tell you the Bulls would pass on Hawes??

[maes]

Excellent, we've used what will be our highest draft pick for possibly the next 10 years to draft Tyrus Thomas' bench sub.

[Sauru]

i smell a trade coming before the season starts

[---]

Well, you were right.

I still don't see how Hawes didn't fit this team better. I guess BPA was the way to go, because I do know Joakim is quite alot better than Hawes.

Noah better impress.

[maes]

Does anyone else feel that we
A. Traded Tyson Chandler for PJ, who we may not resign, and JR, who we waived...for nothing
B. Just drafted Tyson Chandler back again.

[Dan's Brain]

Well, i said what i said, and now i'm stuck with it. Hooray.


I'd been getting excited when we got to the 7th pick and i realised that Brandan Wright was still on the board. I'd been hoping that MJ would pass on him, before i knew about the Golden State trade.

I think Noah has the best personality in the draft, and a fantastic winning attitude, and it's that attitude that they've drafted. He's a great presence and has only strengthened the Bulls very imposing defensive front-court.

Hawes probably wasnt going to do anything for the Bulls this year, and neither would Al Thornton.

[Ashman23]

Can't wait until free agency starts. Still a chance we'll chase J O'Neal or Gasol or even Garnett (The T-Wolves like Noah apparently).

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com ... -headlines

[-Young Buck-]

isnt chris webber a FA? If he will sign for the MLE thats probably their best move to get some low post scoring.

[air gordon]

What’s up magius?

I’m glad we’re having this debate- you’re a good but not great poster here hehe

I’m not trying to be sarcastic or arrogant in this debate. When I say ‘lol’, it’s not mean-spirited…

Sure we’re disagreeing on a few points here. Have I seen more bulls games then you? Probably. That’s besides the point. But in your arguments- you haven’t listed any stats to back them up and have dodged my question of how many games you’ve actually seen.

This makes sense to me that your points have nothing to stand on… perhaps other then stereotypes…which is why I bring up the “matt” or ‘flop” or whatever he calls himself now. His m.o is “pistons are superior so they will win”. you have a strong opinion about something. Fine but go ahead and back it up with something. Get what I’m saying?

Duhon… if you take someone of his abilities- solid defensive PER, pretty poor offensive player and pair him next to a star a player/put him on a team that can cover his deficiencies, maybe he could be a that 2nd guard. And that’s being very optimistic

Snow working out in Philly was a unique situation. Snow could regulary guard SG’s but Duhon can’t and he’s not all 1st all defensive team worthy. Doesn’t add up to Duhon being a “core” player to me.

First you said duhon can fit next to star a player then you said not all ‘role’ players can fit with a star player. Whatever…

Pretty lofty standard you use with the word ‘great’. So with your philosophy- you believe that players like Prince, Garnett, Ben Wallace, and Kidd this year were considered only good defenders. Wow

Gordon’s defense did not improve like your hypothetical ben Wallace improvement. But if you still think otherwise, maybe you should take this up with Skiles, who’s reiterated on many occasions that Gordon’s improvement on defense is what gave him the starting job. Hinrich’s “goodness” on defense alone may not cover Gordon’s deficiencies however when you factor Deng and Big Ben…

The Bulls don’t have the Oompa Loompa sized backcourt so enough with the hyperbole. Hinirch’s goodness/bulls good/great defense has already been discussed. But if you’re still on the other boat, you’d have to give them a gold star for overcoming such a deficiency

You’d like to see them win, I’d like to see them win. It’s obvious they need the post scoring and ideally a bigger backcourt makes sense. Can we agree on that? lol

As they say, easier said then done. IMO Paxson would have already made the blockbuster trade if he felt it improved the team and not kill their salary situation for the next few years. Having 2 Wallace “ridiculous” type contracts wouldn’t be good


Joakim Noah? Ah well. I guess he’s the better fit then Hawes in the Bulls ‘uptempo’ style. What I’m not happy is about is that he has a slight tear in his rotator cuff so he can’t play in summer league/workout… which I’m guessing will lead him to the bench once the regular season starts.

Apparently Joe Smith, Chris Mihm, and Pj Brown are on the FA radar. Yeah!

[magius]

I’m glad we’re having this debate- you’re a good but not great poster here hehe

lol, finally we agree on something.

sorry if I overreacted, but what from I read it felt somewhat vindictive or at least provocative, if that is not the case I apologize.

Sure we’re disagreeing on a few points here. Have I seen more bulls games then you? Probably. That’s besides the point. But in your arguments- you haven’t listed any stats to back them up and have dodged my question of how many games you’ve actually seen.

i'm not sure how many games so i'll give an estimate - i did see the playoff games and perhaps 10 or so of the last season. Suffice to say I have seen the players i'm talking about play, and am giving my perspective of their play based on their play, not some farcical whim.

Snow working out in Philly was a unique situation. Snow could regulary guard SG’s but Duhon can’t and he’s not all 1st all defensive team worthy. Doesn’t add up to Duhon being a “core” player to me.

snow didn't start his career playing like the snow we know. when watching duhon i just see certain mechanics that lead me to believe he can become similar to snow. but, that said, if what you say about duhon's character is true, then you may be right.

First you said duhon can fit next to star a player then you said not all ‘role’ players can fit with a star player. Whatever…

the thing is i don't believe duhon qualifies as just any role player, and I never said that all role players could fit with all star players.

Gordon’s defense did not improve like your hypothetical ben Wallace improvement. But if you still think otherwise, maybe you should take this up with Skiles, who’s reiterated on many occasions that Gordon’s improvement on defense is what gave him the starting job. Hinrich’s “goodness” on defense alone may not cover Gordon’s deficiencies however when you factor Deng and Big Ben…

Hinrich-Gordon-Deng-Brown-Wallace = eFGA% of 52%! thats an eFGA of 52% for your most played starting 5... not good. not even close to comparable to the championship san antonio spur's eFGA of .454% for their most used starting 5. nor eastern conference champion cav's eFGA of .481 for their most used starting 5.

Now let's see the numbers when you take out one of either gordon or hinrich:
Duhon-Gordon-Deng-Nocioni-Wallace = eFGA of .475%
Duhon-Hinrich-Deng-Brown-Wallace = eFGA of .471%
Duhon-Hinrich-Deng-Nocioni-Wallace = eFGA of .498

the only anamoly is when you insert thomas into the lineup at which point a hinrich-gordon backcourt does seem viable. So perhaps thomas is the the better choice rather than trade away one of the big three. it is a gamble of course to rest championship hopes on a soph, but perhaps that is the right choice. Personally, I do not think it would be much of a loss to lose one of the guards for a known big, slowly filling wallace's minutes with thomas' over the year(s). As well, with the addition of a known post, it would change the culture of the team from perimiter oriented to perhaps more inside out - which inadvertently would help thomas as he develops.

Gordon’s defense did not improve like your hypothetical ben Wallace improvement. But if you still think otherwise, maybe you should take this up with Skiles, who’s reiterated on many occasions that Gordon’s improvement on defense is what gave him the starting job. Hinrich’s “goodness” on defense alone may not cover Gordon’s deficiencies however when you factor Deng and Big Ben…

gordon during the 07 season has an eFGA of .474
gordon during the 06 season has an eFGA of .459

gordon, defensively, points per 100 possesions on the court for 07 is 101.7. when he's off the court it is 98.2.
gordon, defensively, points per 100 posessions on the court for 06 is 105.5 vs off court 103.4.

it does not seem like a grand improvement judging from the stats, though I do admit he has improved, but not vastly as skyle's quote implies.

Pretty lofty standard you use with the word ‘great’. So with your philosophy- you believe that players like Prince, Garnett, Ben Wallace, and Kidd this year were considered only good defenders. Wow

irrelevant. hinrich was not even in the running for dpoy, their are still tiers below great at which point it would not be wrong to call a player, in my opinion, great. hinrich is a tier below that tier or more. and yes, i have high standards.

You’d like to see them win, I’d like to see them win. It’s obvious they need the post scoring and ideally a bigger backcourt makes sense. Can we agree on that? lol

As they say, easier said then done. IMO Paxson would have already made the blockbuster trade if he felt it improved the team and not kill their salary situation for the next few years. Having 2 Wallace “ridiculous” type contracts wouldn’t be good

this is all true, and I see your points. It would be hard to get what the bulls ideally need, as that need is pretty much synonymous with most teams needs. When I say "they should" do something, all I mean is "they should," though I do understand the realities of the situation. That said, again, I would not hesitate to trade one of the guards for a proven big.

[-Young Buck-]

new rumor is gasol going to the bulls for nocioni, duhon, and noah. but i dont see why memphis would trade gasol now. They still have Mike Miller, Gay, and now Conley. They would be trading their best player for 3 okay players? Only Noah would start.

[maes]

What would Conley really add to the Grizzlies? They go from worst to 5th worst in the NBA? Or even worse, just miss the playoffs and not get a decent draft pick?

The dreaded "best of the worst" area is a dead man zone for teams...either go far in the playoffs or hit rock bottom....and the Grizz are far closer to bottom than winning the Finals.

I think Gasol could be traded for the same reason Ray Allen was traded for a rookie and why Seattle will watch a 22 ppg scorer walk away, the team is rebuild mode. New GM, new coach...probably new team.

Whether Pax makes the best offer for Gasol, i don't know.

[-BHZMAFIA-]

Conley really adds alot to the Grizzlies actually. If Memphis can stay healthy this year and add either Darko, Varejao or Nocioni (maybe even 2 of the 3 via sign and trade), they will definitely be back in playoff contention. They aren't trading Gasol either so thats basically done with. If they were to trade Gasol, it would probably end up being before the deadline just to see where the team would be record wise.

Either Memphis can just offer Nocioni enough money to the point of where the Bulls would be dumb to match it (knowing that they have to give contracts to players like Deng) or the Bulls could maybe take Warrick or something in the deal and get a little something out of it. Memphis is really the only team with the cap space to offer Nocioni, Varejao and Darko mainly because the Bucks are trying to get their PG situation straighten out, Warriors don't need any of the 3, Magic just used all their money on Lewis and I don't know who else I'm leaving out. But, as far as I know, Memphis are looking at those three players and I would rather see them just sign Nocioni for enough money to where the Bulls wouldn't necessarily want to match it, then make a sign and trade deal for Varejao because I see no need for Darko when he doesn't bring toughness to the team like Noc and Varejao.

maes, Memphis really isn't as bad as the record says. If you look at the team they had last year compared to the team they had the past 3 years when they actually made the playoffs, its not too different except for the injuries and some of the veteran leadership. What they were missing last year was toughness and hustle type players kinda like when they had Battier, Posey and Wright on the team. They will definitely add those pieces back if they are able to sign Nocioni and possibly Varejao.

The Grizzlies' unleashed a full-scale recruitment of Chicago's restricted free agent Andres Nocioni. Not only did general manager Chris Wallace fly to Argentina to meet with Nocioni to sell Memphis and the Griz, head coach Marc Iavaroni joined the discussions via telephone. Pau Gasol even phoned Nocioni to present a convincing pitch.

The Griz still have not tendered an offer to Nocioni. Chicago would have seven days to match whenever Nocioni receives an offer.

http://www.commercialappeal.com/mca/gri ... 82,00.html

I don't think Gasol would be talking to Nocioni about coming to Memphis if he was involved in the deal. So it seems as if Memphis is basically trying to get Nocioni without a S&T. They are also looking at Derek Fisher.

[NovU]

i agree wid BHZMAFIA...
i don't think grizzlies is their 06-07 record bad
sure they miss bonzi, posey, battier, & very lil bit of eddie jones but the thing is they aren't very far from being a playoff team
health issue, free agent market(or trade), conley are the factors no doubt
on subject, high chance of nocioni in other uniform next season w/o doubt
would be nice if they could reach a deal wid grizz
good points by bhzmafia

[Ashman23]

I've just been reading that the Bulls may offer Noce, Noah, Duhon and money for Gasol, which would probably suit both teams, if not maybe they'll let Noce go and chase Darko.


Imagine what the team would be like if they didn't trade away Brand for the rights to Chandler.Hmmmmm.

[Dan's Brain]

Imagine what the team would be like if they didn't trade away Brand for the rights to Chandler.Hmmmmm.

No Gordon, no Deng, no Hinrich, no Ben Wallace.

Just Elton Brand and Eddy Curry eating up paint.


I knew the Gasol rumours wouldnt die. Although this package wouldnt come anywhere close to what the Griz would want. You cant make that deal without Ben Gordon in my opinion.

[maes]

Memphis rumored to have offered Noc $9M a year ($46M total) to pull him out of Chicago. Substantially greater than Paxson's $6M a year offer.

Bye bye Noc?