better defensive guard in their prime ..

kinda need this question answered, as i've only really watched one of them play. the question here is who was the better defensive guard in their prime - gary payton or joe dumars? i've seen payton in his prime and the guy was an absolute ballhawk. quick hands, quick feet, and an underrated shotblocker at the guard spot.

i've seen highlight tapes of dumars, mostly of him going up against MJ. i haven't seen him defending anyone else, but he did hold his own to the best shooting guard i've ever seen. anyone want to help me out here?

Individually i thought Payton was better, and he was known for his fierce competitiveness on both ends of the floor.

Dumars was a very good defender but part of an overall team defense, which is the only really effective way to guard superstars.

Depends on what context you mean defense, Payton was a great personal defender but overall Seattle wasn't a good defensive team, kinda like Shawn Marion in Phoenix. Dumars was part of a team defense that was far more effective than Seattle's.

Gary Payton pwns all.

(in his prime.) these last few years have been painful to watch

^

Exactly the type of response I was expecting from you.

As for the question, I can't really give my own personal opinion. That era is basically filler with memories of MJ and Pippen and not much else. Plus I was too young to understand the game enough. From what I remember, Payton was a monster defensively, individually speaking.

^^u ever heard of potel?

You mean Pontel? Yes I have, but I'm too broke to be buying old school NBA DVD's right now.

well, Dumars was one of the best MJ defenders to ever play.....not only that, but he could also score on him too!

speakin of good guard defenders, reminds me of mitch richmond

even mj mentioned hez purty tough to play against

not on same lvl wid pay/dum but was ok i believe...

Im going to play safe and say Gary.

I'm going to research into this a bit later.

Well, I hear about Gary Payton associated with "defensive guard" a lot, but I'd like to know about others as well. I don't hear about it much, since defense and guards are not heard of as much, not to mention that lock-down defenders are tough to measure in terms of stats.

solo defender and team defender are too different things. payton stand as one of the best solo defenders to ever play the game. many have surpassed him in terms of team defense

That reminds me... how was Nate McMillan in terms of a defender?

if my memory serves me correctly, he was a decent one-on-one defender, but a better team defender.

Yeah, he was an awesome help defender and an absolute ballhawk, even better than Payton (one of the rare players that got 3spg or over in a season, if I remember correctly). Damn, those Supersonics teams were so fun to watch. Why the hell did Kemp have to get fat ?

McMillan was sort of like Larry Hughes if he'd worked out for the cavs without Injuries. He could play the point spot very well, and he also picked the passing lanes excellently, and he of course was a great on ball defender as well.

I think overall Payton was a better defender than Dumars. He obviously got less credit for being "the best jordan defender" because, as previous posters have said, he played on a weaker team defensive unit. When the team defensive unit is strong, it makes it easier to defender a superstar like jordan, so a good defender like dumars becomes more effective.

Payton had an extra competitiveness that I think Dumars didn't have, or at least need, as much. He'd hustle harder than any player on the floor the entire time he was out there. There'd be times where he'd be hustling after a play or dead ball and walk back breathing through his nose so he didn't appear tired. He also never employed any cheap, "bowen-like" defensive tactics.

Yeah, he was an awesome help defender and an absolute ballhawk, even better than Payton (one of the rare players that got 3spg or over in a season, if I remember correctly). Damn, those Supersonics teams were so fun to watch. Why the hell did Kemp have to get fat ?

He didn'tget fat until he started playing for Cleveland. Apparently the kitchen there is better or something.

I believe scottie pippen and Gary payton are 2 of the best defenders to ever play. No disrespect to the other Greats, but Pippen had those long arms and could come out of nowhere and swat shots with ease. He lost some of it with age but it was still there to an extent. Gary payton was one hell of a BALLHAWK. Jason kidd plays kind of like him but he lacks his aggressiveness. Tayshaun Prince plays kinda like pippen. The best Defender now is Bruce Bowen, despite his sneakiness. Then Ron Artest, then Kobe Bryant.

Yes but this thread is for best defensive guards not forwards. Pippen, Bowen, and Artest are all forwards. As for guards I gotta go with GP as the best, no one could consistently play good against him. Also I had his sneakers, the ones with the different skin cover things.

Yes but this thread is for best defensive guards not forwards. Pippen, Bowen, and Artest are all forwards. As for guards I gotta go with GP as the best, no one could consistently play good against him. Also I had his sneakers, the ones with the different skin cover things.

I meant to really say that Pip is versatile because he could go against guards AND forwards. I agree with you on gary payton. But right now the best defensive guard is either Dwyane Wade, Larry Hughes, or Jason Kidd. All of those guys are talented defenders.

Yes but this thread is for best defensive guards not forwards. Pippen, Bowen, and Artest are all forwards. As for guards I gotta go with GP as the best, no one could consistently play good against him. Also I had his sneakers, the ones with the different skin cover things.

dude, a few weeks ago, I bought some Nike Air Son Of Gloves from ebay... white/navy... it's pure sexiness in shoe form.

He didn'tget fat until he started playing for Cleveland. Apparently the kitchen there is better or something.

He got fat during the lockout, then he was traded to Cleveland and Seattle got Vin Baker. Too bad both went downhill from there.