Chicago Bulls Thread

[Indy]

Just imagine if they still had Elton Brand....

[Carmo]

It seems to me that Tyrus is the key to Bulls victory. Whenever he plays well, the Bulls play well. Missed layups aside, lol.

[Andrew]

If nothing else, the Bulls have turned in a couple of fine performances and won't have gone quietly into the night. History and homecourt advantage may be against them but they're still alive which is much better than most people - including most Bulls fans aside from a few Homers - would have predicted. Great to see there's still some fight in them after the first three games put them in such a precarious position. Shame Game 6 is unlikely to be shown on Foxtel.

[maes]

At least the Bulls put up a better fight than Dallas!

While a series victory is still very much a longshot, i really cant see anything stopping this Bulls team next year. With an extra year's experience and further development of their core, Chicago could be one of the scariest teams in the NBA.

I hope Reinsdorf will allow Pax to resign everybody. There are some extensions to be worked out and Kirk's $11M contract kicks in next year. It won't be a rookie roster anymore.

[air gordon]

wow- amazingly strange how this series has gone so far.

the first 2 games it looked like the bulls JV team was playing the pistons.
in the 3rd game it looked like the bulls finally showed up but only to suffer a demoralizing loss

in games 4 & 5 it looked like the pistons jv team was playing the bulls. pretty impressive that the bulls crushed the pistons at their home court in game 5. i never thought the bulls could get a win with ben wallace having a subpar game

it seems like it took 3 games for the bulls players to prove to themselves they can beat detroit. playing at home, i believe they will carry this confidence and continue to impose their will/playing style on the pistons

the key for rest of the series is stopping Billups- whether it be by foul trouble, putting Hinirch on him, or both...the bulls have to get him out of his game... or literally out of the game hehe

on lighter note but a little serious one as well, thunder thighs oprah winfrey better not be making yet another inspirational speech before the tipoff. another appearance by her spells certain doom for the bulls (wtf was the organization thinking having her out of all chicagoans appear on the big screen?!)

dude if the bulls could have cryogencially frozen jordan in his prime and then revive him for game 6

[beau_boy04]

At least the Bulls put up a better fight than Dallas!

While a series victory is still very much a longshot, i really cant see anything stopping this Bulls team next year. With an extra year's experience and further development of their core, Chicago could be one of the scariest teams in the NBA.

I hope Reinsdorf will allow Pax to resign everybody. There are some extensions to be worked out and Kirk's $11M contract kicks in next year. It won't be a rookie roster anymore.

there are some rumors runnning around saying Colangelo (Toronto GM) will offer Nocioni the MLE

[Dan's Brain]

there are some rumors runnning around saying Colangelo (Toronto GM) will offer Nocioni the MLE

I wouldnt be inclined to believe this. Noc can probably command more than the MLE. He is a starting-caliber player on a lot of teams. He's a great energy guy, defender and outside shooter.

The development of Tyrus will impact on Noc's future a lot. But his shooting would definitely be missed.

[---]

Personally I think Nocioni is gone, but I think Tyrus can make up for that loss quite well. It will give him a chance to really contribute and he is just as good a hustler and energy guy as Nocioni has been. Don't expect that to change as he begins getting ~30 minutes per because in college he was exactly the same, hustling non stop. As Hinrich 12 said his shooting would be missed, especially since not something Tyrus can bring to the table.

I would like to see Chicago kep Nocioni, but if he is asking to much like I think he will I have no problem with letting him go. The Bulls are going to get post scoring in the draft and Tyrus can come in and provide that hustle and energy.

I think if Nocioni does ask to much, the Bulls should make a sign and trade with a team that wants to get rid of an expiring contract and has a first round pick or backup point guard. Chris Duhon is a great backup but he seems to be in of Coach Skiles "doghouse" alot, I hate to say it but I think they may dump him off somewhere this offseason or during next season before they lose him to free agency anyway.

I would be extremely happy if they could get something for Duhon and Nocioni before they lose them to free agency anyway.

A trade like: Andres Nocioni (through sign and trade) and Chris Duhon for Antoine Walker, Michael Doleac and a 1st round pick (#20)

For Miami, they get a very good replacement for James Posey who becomes a free agent that brings hustle, defence and shooting. That shooting also helps for the loss of Antoine Walker through this trade. The Heat will need a steady point guard to back up the often injured Jason Williams with Gary Payton becoming a free agent, probably retiring or going to a very strong contender. They lose their first round pick, but get two players proven worthy of being picked before the #20 spot anyway.

For Chicago, they get Antoine Walker who brings some veteran presence and 3 point shooting, plus some decent rebounding from the SF position. Walker may have a fat contract ($8.5M next season), but that contract can be cut short by the teams option at the end of the 08/09 season, making it just 2 seasons keeping the declining Walker before they get a cool $9.2M in cap space. They also get Michael Doleac, who will become a free agent at the end of next season, freeing up over $3M. Finally, they get a mid to late 1st round pick. This is the most important part of this trade as there is a very promising player that would be available at this spot - Javaris Crittenton.

Crittenton is a very athletic, strong, 6-5 freshman Point Guard out of Georgia Tech. He's the 4th ranked PG behind Conley, Law and Stuckey (who is more of a SG anyway) by DraftExpress. Amazing unselfish and a great passer, great size, great attitude, incredibly quick... I love the guy. He can score too (14PPG as a freshman), but he's more of a set up guy. I read earlier in the year that some GM's were very high on Crittenton's potential. However, since there are only 3 teams ahead of this pick that will be really considering a PG at their respective spots, he should be available (ATL #11, LAC #14, LAL #19). Personally I love Crittenton's game and think he will be a very good player. He was the best freshman on his team, which included Thaddeus Young who will be a lottery pick.

I would love to see this trade go down if Nocioni has to go. Even though Miami has been a big time rival and there have been some heated contests over the past few years, I think Andres would go. He would be getting the money he wants and be the 2nd/3rd option behind Dwyane Wade and the declining Shaq. He would be starting easily and getting 30+ minutes for the first time in his career for a strong team.

[Andrew]

As much as I like him, if one player has to go I'd have to pick Nocioni at the moment. He's got great heart, he's a tough defender and he's the kind of player who's usually good for around 12-15 ppg but if it comes down to choose between him and Deng or Gordon, my preference would go to them. Hopefully the Bulls will look to keep them all if possible though.

As important as it may be for the Bulls not to pass up an opportunity to make the right move, with the team they've put together and the season they've had this year the smart thing to do would be to think long and hard whether or not a certain move would be for the best. Fortunately that would seem to be Pax's train of thought and as much as Bill Simmons may criticise it and say it lacks balls, I'm glad he's not wheeling and dealing just because a deal is on the table.

[maes]

I doubt Noc would take an MLE unless it was specifically for the Bulls. Rebounding, defense, long range shooting; it's a valuable package. Guys like Diaw & Josh Howard make $9M, Shane Battier averages $7M.

If the Bulls are jump shooting team, a thing to consider is that Noc makes a third of the Bulls 3 pointers (when he was healthy), and currently none of his replacements can hit a 3, including Deng.

Bulls need to work whatever financial voodoo to keep Noc, i believe he'll take less money to stay.

[magius]

i think gordon should be the only true untouchable. deng seems to be a pseudo post player, i think i'd prefer gasol over him..... also its looking like the wallace signing was a mistake, especially with chandler's season with the hornets. obviously he's still a better player, and defender, but he's definitely slowing down, to a point that he will be insignificant when and if the bulls have a realistic chance of winning a championship. i may be wrong though, and maybe they have one now. who knows? i'm rooting for them though.

[---]

That Tyrus Thomas offensive foul is one of the worst calls I have seen all post season, and I have missed probably only 5 or 6 games.

Tyrus was standing almost completely straight, and he didn't deck him with his shoulder like it seemed as it showed on the replay. He bare moved his shoulders and chest forward maybe an inch to brace for the contact, and Lindsay Hunter (I think) just milked the shit out of it.

They should get all the refs together and completely go over the rules again. That wasn't a tough call to make by any means.

[Matt]

All i can say is FINALLY!!!. At 3-0 this really should have been a sweep. Not that Chicago didn't earn it's two victories but given Detroit's play those games should have been more competetive.

The Pistons are tough to beat when they own the boards and have multiple guys going for 15 +. Even though Billups struggled shooting, he still had 21 pnts on 12 shots.

I guess nuetral fans found this series boring.....well, onto the 5th straight ECF

btw: my original 4-2 prediction stands!!....and thanks for signing Ben Wallace

[magius]

thank god. i would much prefer watching the pistons getting crushed in the finals by whoever wins the west.

[Andrew]

Well, I can't say I'm not disappointed because they were in with a shot to at least force a game seven and they didn't get the job done despite once again leading at halftime. Some costly turnovers and cold shooting did them in, I was surprised that PJ Brown didn't get more touches in the second half. Still, a week ago everyone was preparing the brooms and they managed to make Detroit work a bit for win number four so there's some good that came out of this series. Of course, I can't help but think that a game seven would be on the way had they not blown that lead in game three...

No doubt a lot of people will be calling for Deng or Gordon to be traded since the current trend seems to be deciding a player's fate according to the last game he played but I don't think Chicago should be in any rush to trade Deng, Gordon or Hinrich and I'd be very disappointed if they did unless a legitimate superstar was coming the other way (and even then, I'd be sorry to see them go). Yes, the lack of a post scorer has hurt them but they were a whisker away from 50 wins - and really could have had 55 if not for some games that were thrown away during the regular season - advanced to the second round for the first time in nearly a decade after sweeping the defending champions and stealing two games away from the team that is quite likely coming out of the East this year. It's disappointing to see their season come to end so soon but the result isn't too shabby at all.

I still feel Paxson made the right call on the rumoured Gasol move. Gasol would have strengthened the frontcourt but without Deng and Gordon or Gordon and Hinrich or Deng and Hinrich, I have my doubts that they would have come this far. Fingers crossed for the lottery next week; if the Bulls get a top three pick, Pax surely has to be in the running for Executive of the Year this time next year.

Congrats to the Pistons for getting the job done but congratulations also to the Bulls for what has easily been their finest season since 1998. It was a fun ride, hopefully next year will be even better.

[---]

I don't wanna jinx anything, but this morning when I woke up I was bored and went on to RealGM's lottery simulator and the Bulls got the first pick 3 times in a row.

If Chicago gets Oden or Durant -- or even Brandan Wright (or even Yi, he could provide some nice post scoring and size), I'm moving to Chicago ASAP. Seriously.

Only a few more days to go... I can't wait.

[Andrew]

I can't afford the move, but I'd probably be moved to invest in another Pontel subscription next year. Of course, one would hope that Foxtel continues to show four regular season games per week and that the Bulls would be featured fairly regularly but somehow I doubt I could rely on that happening, even with the increased coverage and surprising number of Bulls games shown this year.

[magius]

chicago was that post player away from competing. in a small way, they look strangely similar to detroit pre-rasheed in makeup. if they could get gasol for deng and a pick, that would be nice. wallace-gasol-nocioni-gordon-hinrich looks swell. players like gasol are rarely up for grabs, they should swing it while they can; imo deng is replacable. and finding a decent 3 or wing player later in the draft is far easier than any type of post player who can actually do more than one thing. i can't even think of another viable, more importantly, available 4 who can fit the bulls need. noc-gordon-hinrich on the wing, on paper, provide a pretty impressive inside-out game that can also run with big ben to funnel into on d. it just seems theirs not enough ball on the wing for deng-gordon-hinrich to be implemented to full potential - not neccessarily stastically, but more in terms of team success.

[Matt]

I think Gordon is the weak link....in fact, if he could D up this series could have turned out differently or at least would have been tougher. Apart from Game 5, i don't think he had any games to brag about. his shooting was about 6% off from reg season....from 45 to 39.

[Andrew]

Sure, if you want to sum up Gordon's abilities and season over the span of six games against one of the best defensive teams in the league, he's the weak link. Never mind he led the team with 21.4 ppg during the regular season after he was pegged as a player incapable of scoring over 20 ppg or the numerous 30+ and a few 40+ point performances or the fine performances in wins over the likes of Dallas, Miami, Phoenix, San Antonio and Detroit, not to mention his fine performance in the opening round against Miami.

It's true that his defense isn't stellar and his height does present some matchup problems but I wouldn't call him a weak link or expendable. Personally, I'd rather judge a player on his performance over the course of the season taking his highs as well as his lows into account, particularly when it comes to getting rid of him.

[Matt]

Sure, if you want to sum up Gordon's abilities and season over the span of six games against one of the best defensive teams in the league, he's the weak link. Never mind he led the team with 21.4 ppg during the regular season after he was pegged as a player incapable of scoring over 20 ppg or the numerous 30+ and a few 40+ point performances or the fine performances in wins over the likes of Dallas, Miami, Phoenix, San Antonio and Detroit, not to mention his fine performance in the opening round against Miami.

Personally i believe the playoffs are the best time to judge a player because teams get up to play (almost) every night. That's why regular season records are irrelevent (such as Chicago's 3-1 vs Detroit).

Back to my point on D......the Pistons relentlessly attacked Gordon. No matter who he guarded he was getting scored on with ease. Nothing raises confidence like easy buckets!

I would like to also note that when Gordon wasn't scoring he wasn't helping the team either. Some of his turnovers were just....frustrating. Such as a dbl dribble w/o any pressure (btw, he leads the league in dbl dribbles)

I'm not knocking Gordon.....but when you get this deep into the playoffs it's harder to win and i think the Bulls would be wise to consider moving him. That is unless he can upgrade his D.

[maes]

I agree w/ Matt, playoffs matter, but it's not Gordon's fault for being something he's not, he's a PG/combo guard.

3 teams relied heavily on a combo guard in the 2 position: Bulls, Dallas, Phoenix. Bulls just got guard abused by the Pistons. Dallas lost their series on guard play (Jax shot 48% from 3 point range vs Dallas). Phoenix is basically using Raja as their SG at 40+ mpg, Barbosa guards the PG, and has been trumped by Parker pretty badly. And both Barbosa & Devin Harris are more athletic than Gordon.

I know Skiles has a love affair with the Duhon-Hinrich-Gordon three way but 3 semi-athletic PGs will have trouble in the more physical playoffs....and this team is carried by its backcourt offensively.

If only the Bulls were in position to draft a 6'6" 230 lb SG who can cut to the basket at will and play solid D and rebound & dish as well, too bad there was nobody like that in the draft. (yes, i am a broken record).

But moving along, what about a move for Rashard Lewis? Trade some of our players for cap equalization, + our 9th pick to Seattle for Rashard? Seattle gets both the 5th & 9th and can jumpstart a rebuild in a new city, they avoid losing Rashard for nothing. (this assumes we don't win the lottery).

[Dean]

If only the Bulls were in position to draft a 6'6" 230 lb SG who can cut to the basket at will and play solid D and rebound & dish as well, too bad there was nobody like that in the draft. (yes, i am a broken record).

Brandon Roy?

[Andrew]

Personally i believe the playoffs are the best time to judge a player because teams get up to play (almost) every night. That's why regular season records are irrelevent (such as Chicago's 3-1 vs Detroit).

I don't disagree that Playoff performance matters but I wouldn't say the regular season is irrelevant. After all, a lot of people (myself included) threw the Warriors' 3-0 record against the Mavericks out the window, yet they pulled off the upset in the Playoffs. The pressure is increased when it becomes a matter of elimination but the matchups are the same and so is the talent at each team's disposal.

Gordon did have his share of frustrating plays but he wasn't alone. Kirk Hinrich wasn't that great in Game 6 either. His shot wasn't falling, his shot selection itself was a bit suspect and he made some bad turnovers as well. Deng had a couple of subpar games in the Detroit series as well. Gordon wasn't at his best in the Detroit series but I wouldn't go so far as calling him a weak link or labelling him expendable just yet.

The Bulls' lack of a post scorer was exposed, I think we can all agree on that. The presence of such a player would surely help the likes of Gordon, Hinrich and Deng by keeping the defense honest and opening up better looks on the perimeter. It would also help out when the perimeter attack goes cold, which even the best shooters are prone to suffer from time to time.

I'd still prefer to see the Bulls add to the mix without subtraction if possible, so that their current core can benefit from that post threat rather than being dismantled to acquire it. I know you have to overpay to get good post players but if you go from one weakness to another, is it really such a solid deal? Kevin Garnett is one of the finest frontcourt players in the league but it doesn't mean squat if his teammates can't deliver. Gordon's struggles against a team like Detroit wouldn't hurt the Bulls as much if they didn't have that deficiency in the post.

But moving along, what about a move for Rashard Lewis? Trade some of our players for cap equalization, + our 9th pick to Seattle for Rashard? Seattle gets both the 5th & 9th and can jumpstart a rebuild in a new city, they avoid losing Rashard for nothing. (this assumes we don't win the lottery).

Lewis in an interesting prospect and he does provide size and player capable of scoring inside, but he also likes to hang around on the perimeter as well. He's attempted an average of 341 three pointers per season since becoming a regular starter including 387 this season. I'm not sure about his attitude either. I still remember him trying to hold the Sonics to ransom a few years ago and his availability also seems to stem from selfish desires. I can't help but wonder if his talent is worth the possible headaches and whether he'll be keen to stick around if things don't pan out within a couple of years.

[air gordon]

it's always finger pointing time for the team that gets eliminated, isn't it?

i'd have to agree with the above posts mentioning on how it was the bulls backcourt play that cost them- each game they won, it was the bulls backcourt that outplayed detroit. vice versa when they lost

sure gordon has his deficiencies. against miami and the regular season, as andrew mentioned, he was good for the most part. and i agree whenever any team plays against an elite team like detroit, your weaknesses get magnified as well

i don't want to take credit away from the pistons, however, there were A LOT of open looks that gordon and hinrich missed in game 6. i don't know if it's mental or what, but the shots were there and they failed to knock them down. all this done without that post scorer...

what to do in the offseason? i think it's trading time -get that post scorer or at the least a player that will draw double teams. Gordon sometimes has that ability but the rest of the players thrive in that draw and kick scheme. Deng was awesome but seldom do you see him isolated on the wing, creating a shot for himself.

chris sheridan of espn had an interesting article mentioning stars such as garnett, jermaine o'neal, stoudemire, and gasol possibly being on the market. i'm sure it will cost one of their big 3- hinrich, deng, gordon, plus some other player (maybe nocioni or duhon) and a draft pick. maybe even more

but if it takes 2 of their big 3 to land one of those players, i think paxson should walk away. but pax has to be aggressive this offseason. i think any of those big guys would want to play for the team- they play in the weaker conference, most of the best post players are in the west & the team already has big ben in the middle, and city + fans are great.

the bulls already have a big guard who plays defense and can handle the ball- thabo sefolosha. as far as i'm concerned, he's surpassed duhon on the depth chart plus Skiles should have more faith in him since he's got 1 year of nba experience under his belt. i'm expecting big things from him next year. i hope he goes on the luol deng offseason program hehe. shoot all of the team needs to gon his offseason program...

btw- i think the highest the bulls can offer FA's will be the MLE so i'm not counting on landing an impact player via free agency.