Greg Oden - NBA Ready?

Th McRoberts statement was sarcastic?

Did I stutter?

How is anyone meant to translate that into sacrism? And if they do, do they also think you're entire post is sarcastic? Becuase your posts in this thread have all had the same tone.

...because McRoberts is terrible. It was a sarcastic, tongue in cheek exaggeration. What do you know about tone? You're a moron and you've proved it many times...you don't know how to understand or comprehend tone, intent, or the overall purpose.

You're downplaying the hand injury the same way you're saying it was overhyped. He missed the first 5 games I think, but it was hurting him so bad he was shooting his ft's left handed. While that's not Willis Reed or even MJ in 97, it's still pretty gutsy to be out there.

Did I say it wasn't gutsy? It doesn't impress me...there's a difference.

It's proven I haven't seen them play? Please. Your proof is as solid as water. I have watched them play numerous times this season, we get more college basketball games on ESPN then NBA games here, and we get a good portion of tournament games.

Maybe 8 games, if the times were right. You get the NCAA tourney in Aussie on CBS? I didn't know they did that. Maybe you have seen them play. Or maybe you're making it up. But you wouldn't do that...

Regardless, I've still seen them play more than you...which was my main point.

But then again, its "proven" that "i havent seen them play". You idiot.

Not knowing that you get NCAA (something that isn't international like the NBA) hoops makes me an idiot? No, it makes me someone who doesn't travel...

An missed intentional call? Yeah reward somone jumping backwards after being fouled trying to milk a call. Yeah thats the way basketball should be played... it wasn't a fraglant foul and was called appropiately.

A flagrant foul and an intentional foul are slightly different. From the NCAA Rule Book:

Art. 4. Flagrant personal foul, live ball. A flagrant personal foul shall be a personal foul that involves severe or excessive contact with an opponent or involves contact that is extreme in nature while the ball is live.

His contact was not "extreme" or "excessive." The flop makes it NOT a flagrant foul. However....

Art. 6. Intentional personal foul. An intentional foul shall be a personal
foul that, on the basis of an official’s observation of the act, is not a legitimate
attempt to directly play the ball or a player. Determination of
whether a personal foul is intentional shall not be based on the severity
of the act. Examples include, but are not limited to:
a. Fouling a player who is away from the ball and not directly
involved with the play.
b. Contact with a player making a throw-in.
c. Holding or pushing an opponent in order to stop the game clock.
d. Pushing a player from behind to prevent a score.
e. Causing excessive contact with an opponent while playing the ball.

It was an INTENTIONAL...not a flagrant...foul. Two shots and the ball, the game is over. You can't criticize the officials, and the announcers can't say anything. It's not like the NBA; college coaches rarely say anything about the officials.

To say he won't live upto expectations is to call him a bust.

I suppose that's one way to look at it.

You say with such authority and conviction that he wont average 15 and 10 until 4 years into his NBA career. What exactly are you basing that on? The fact that he played half the season injured? Really, you try to dismiss what I say but you're the one who said that Lebron would be a bust in a similar type of thread a few years ago, so really what you're saying has no merit.

I expect him to average 15 and 10 about 4 years into his career. I may be wrong, and I hope I am, but I don't see it. Don't even bring up LeBron, I figured he'd fuck up off the court, not on court - big difference. He surprised everyone how well he did - I wasn't the only one.

Oden will be the defensive player we thought, but his offense won't come on for a long time...which is basically what everyone's saying. As for what I'm saying has no merit, why not? I don't even know how many NCAA and NBA games I've seen this season, live and on TV, but it's probably more than you even though you have ESPN.

You're the only one here bad mouthing me and calling me an idiot for my opinion, so really, by ways of arguments, yours have no merits because you rely on trying to make your argument by trying to make your "opponent" (I use the term loosely) look bad, which really, you're not. I'm not an idiot, and people are disagreeing with my opinion, which is their prerogative. I don't care. Disagreements cause discussions, and this discussion turned into an argument due to your malice towards me. I haven't been around for ages, yet you still harbor some sort of grudge. Grow up. I digress...

I'm still trying to figure out why you listed Hansbrough and Hibbert. What do they even have to do with this conversation?

The best post players in the NCAA that Oden hasn't played against. He's had no competition in the post...he's playing against 6'8 to 6'10 power fowards who play perimeter games. I thought I said that, or something to that effect, but I guess not.

I knew this thread would be coming, Greg isn't a stats guy. He's won championships at every level for a reason. He does all the things needed to win ballgames, period.

So you're saying he's a role player that does all the little things? Superstars and number one picks should have the stats, too, but that's just me.

Shane, stop bringing up the "intentional foul" issue. That's a bunch of bullshit, and its losers talk.

I picked OSU to win in my main bracket. It was bullshit, and it's not losers talk. See definition above...the game wasn't exactly handed to OSU, but pretty damn close. If the correct call had been made, Lewis' great shot might not have happened. If Xavier hadn't been 'tarded, Lewis' great shot wouldn't have happened. If OSU had won with the correct call being made, fine.

I don't care much that they won; I just don't like the fact that the media is ignoring half the people that are saying it was intentional and that the NCAA didn't even look into it. It's the same bias as when Bobby Knight is fined for slapping his own player on the cheek, yet Vandy's coach can hit the ball out of Noah's (Florida) hand and it's ignored. Just like the NBA, the NCAA favors certain players and teams, and, with OSU being this year's darlings, I can definitely see that.

f that had been an intentional foul, everyone would be whining that the refs took the game out of the hands of the players, and he really did do quite an acting job on the foul anyways.

The sports bar I was at when I was watching the game erupted, and not in a good way, when that happened. I heard (and said) "that's fucking bullshit" numerous times. Apparently, the 45-50 people that were watching the game thought it was intentional or flagrant. I'm sure that feeling wasn't only in one sports bar in Iowa. As for acting, yes he did. But Oden still pushed him with both hands.

That's what champions do.

Yes, because they've already won it. Didn't you guys do that before the Florida game too?

As for Patrick Ewing being winded, yes he was tired often during his college years. So you've basically just proven that getting winded in college will not have any effect on whether or not you deserve the number 1 pick, since Pat Ewing is only one of the greatest Centers to play the game.

Ewing was one of the greatest centers due to his skills, not his athletic ability. He couldn't run, jump, and the only reason he could dunk was because he was 7'0 tall. Oden's very, very athletic, yet he appears winded.

You also have Greg's substitution pattern wrong. Thad has done the spurts of playing time for Greg at times, but that was only for situational reasons, nothing to do with Greg getting tired. He often plays a majority of the first half, sits to finish it, and only takes one break in the second half.

I'm sure you've probably seen more OSU games than I, and you do know what you're talking about, so you're probably right here. It's just what it looks like to me...I'm just not used to seeing coaches pull their best players after brief stints on the court and then put them in a few minutes later. If it's me, they're playing between 30-40 minutes a game and would only sit for more than a minute at the end of the halves.

I don't like Oden as a first pick because he's far too raw and has few offensive abilities. Players like Durant only need to gain weight. If Oden sticks around for a year, maybe two at most, I probably wouldn't be saying a word because he would gain some post moves and not make as many dumb mistakes. This year? He's not even the MVP (Lewis is my fav. player on the team...kind of a tall version of Acie Law) of his team, let alone the best current (i.e. not drafting on pure potential) college player coming out.

its true, and i think when you look at him, you see a guy who isnt really aggressive, plays like a robot... i can see him getting dunked on alot in the nba..
but with that being said, he is still talented and will definitely end up being a lottery pick.

*sigh* Yes, because if Oden is in the NBA, he'd only be guarding centers like Dasagana Diop and Dikembe Mutumbo. If and when Oden goes to the NBA, he'd be expected to guard the other team's best post player...you know, Amare, Howard, Brand, Duncan, Garnett...players that aren't necessarily centers. Those players are much quicker than him. Tennessee's 6'10 white guy went around Oden last night...I'm talking lateral quickness and foot speed. The announcers even commented on it! Hell, Shaq's much quicker, even Yao. There's many players that are as quick or quicker...

That's a bad comparison. Oden's not even in the NBA yet and when he does, he'll be a rookie. Compare him to Yao, Stoudemire, and Howard as rookies, and you'll see that Oden has potential to go with the skill that he already has. To say that he's not good at lateral quickness and foot speed yet has the ability to run across the court like a cheetah says that he has the ability to work on his weaknesses.

dude give a guy a year or 2 before we got his conditioning/heart/physical abilities pegged down.


the guy's only a freshman anyway, a big guy no less. as matthew mentioned, big men are projects anyway. i can't remember a big man coming off of his freshman year and being truly "nba ready". perhaps Chris Webber (man i can still remember Billy Packer saying "look at the great hands of Chris Webber!) and there were a lot of question marks about him heading into the draft

I rescind some of my comments. Oden impressed me today and played well.

I still think his lateral quickness is lacking, he still fouls a lot, and I still wonder about his conditioning, but Indy might have explained that. I'm not sure if I totally buy the weird substitutions of Thad, but I'll go with it.

As for comparing him to Yao et al? Well, I wasn't comparing their rookie years to him, I was saying he'd have to guard them as a rookie, not just slow centers, so lateral quickness would be important as they have effective post moves.

Big men aren't always projects. Dwight Howard is/was, to a point, but he still averaged a 12 and 10 as a rookie. Amare 13 and 9 and 1, Yao 13 and 8. The next season those guys took significant jumps in stats, and Yao and Howard didn't go to college, Amare didn't go to college, and Yao's from another country. I don't see these guys as projects because their soph seasons they were pushing 20 ppg and 10 or more boards. Sure, they're exceptions, but all the big men who have been drafted recently aside from those three were high school aged kids who very, very slowly panned out or dropped into obscurity. Kwame Brown reminds me of Oden, as does Eddy Curry. They would have been similar to Oden in college and probably would have had better stats.

The past few years, project centers have not panned out. It just doesn't seem to be a position that develops well, probably due to the lack of good big men coaches. I'd love it if Oden would be the great center everyone's touting him as, but with past history, do you blame me for being pessimistic? We've all jocked big men that are supposed to be great - Eddy Curry (the next Shaq), Kwame Brown, etc. - and they've been nothing but disappointments. Why should we expect Oden to be different? Because he might win a national title? Because everyone says he is? Because he shows flashes of brilliance? Because he looks like a 40 year old man? To me, those are reasons to be more pessimistic - he's not consistently dominant.

Durant was consistently dominant. You can look at him and say "OK, he has great upside AND the stats to back it up." You look at Oden and say "OK, he has great upside and...occasionally you see how good he can be." Who would you pick? I'd pick Durant, unless I had no players that could be serviceable at center, in which case I'd take Oden and hope he pans out.

At best, Oden will be another Shaq type player. At very worst, Ben Wallace with FT shooting skill and less hair and heart. He'll be a good player to have on your team regardless, but whether or not he'll dominate is yet to be seen...and I don't see it, as he's not even dominating college.

I do remember Shane and I being the lone crusaders in the LeBron = bust argument, I am clearly renowned for my basketballing knowledge and talent scouting.

I do remember Shane and I being the lone crusaders in the LeBron = bust argument, I am clearly renowned for my basketballing knowledge and talent scouting.

It's because Oden looks like a taller, heavier, 45 year old LeBron

Has his hand healed yet or is he still playing one-handed?

This player reminds me Antonio McDyess..

How!?

His game is similar to McDyess..

because they both have great athleticism and they use it down low

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No offence, but have you ever seen him play?

i saw him play a number of times on Satellite and IMO they have identical sides

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The only thing I saw in McDyess that I see in Greg Oden is his great rebounding ability. Other than that, pretty much nothing except for having good quickness/athleticism for his height (however McDyess is what, 6'9 and Greg Oden is 7 foot).

oh? is that what you only saw? you should enhance your visibility.. that's true they both have great rebounding skills.. even though they have different heights it doesnt mean they can't have the same game.. take a look at magic johnson and steve nash.. different heights but same gameplay..

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Antonio was basically a super athletic, quick player that could score inside and mid range. From what I have seen over the years, his mid range game is actually quite impressive.

his midrange game developed these past few seasons because of his injury.. he had a shooting coach which helped him improve his perimeters.. before.. when he was uninjured.. most of his shots were from down low.. he only started shooting more after his major injuries..

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Oden is strictly a post player, nothing else. He blocks shots like crazy, Antonio's career high average is 2.3 in 98/99, impressive? - yes, but mainly due to his athleticism rather than his skill in the shot bloking department. I don't see how you compare the two.

not true! oden has the advantage at shot blocking mainly because he has the height and length.. while dice doesn't rely on athleticism only, he uses his timing too.. as you can see in the past few games, he can still reject shots ya know... i bet if dice had oden's height and dice oden got dice's it'd be the other way around huh?!

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His face looks the same too..

Is this the only reason you compared the two?

yeah.. that! and a bunch of other phases in their games

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But if he goes pro, he needs a good coach who can teach him how to score from jumpers on perimeters to post plays..

Wait.. Are you saying that Greg Oden needs to learn how to shoot from the perimeter? Why if he is so good down low? Why is he so valuable to NBA teams because he will be one of the only "true" centers when he hits the L?

even if he's so good down low, he would still need to improve his shooting skills in the perimeters after a few seasons coz he won't be able to rely on his post play throughout his career.. i can see that in his rookie year if ever he turns pro next year, he'll have a hard time playing against Yao, Shaq, Amare, and the other big guys in the league that has both his athleticism but can shoot perimeter shots.. well.. except for shaq.. coz he can't shoot.. but why does he need to learn how to shoot when he can hammer the ball down without even jumpin..

he won't be able to rely on his post play throughout his career..

Shaq did, Hakeem did, Kareem did, Robinson did...

yeah.. that! and a bunch of other phases in their games

Like...

not true! oden has the advantage at shot blocking mainly because he has the height and length.. while dice doesn't rely on athleticism only, he uses his timing too.. as you can see in the past few games, he can still reject shots ya know... i bet if dice had oden's height and dice oden got dice's it'd be the other way around huh?!

I'm not saying Oden has the advantage, I am saying he is the better shotblocker because he is a smarter shot blocker. He is just better at it, while I think Antonio relied more on athleticism than actual skill in the shot blocking department. Remember Tracy McGrady once averaged 1.9 blocks per, just 0.4 less than McDyess' best effort, and that was pretty much all on athleticism. The nubers don't show the full story.

his midrange game developed these past few seasons because of his injury.. he had a shooting coach which helped him improve his perimeters.. before.. when he was uninjured.. most of his shots were from down low.. he only started shooting more after his major injuries..

True, but I still don't think their games are very similar at all.

oh? is that what you only saw? you should enhance your visibility.. that's true they both have great rebounding skills.. even though they have different heights it doesnt mean they can't have the same game.. take a look at magic johnson and steve nash.. different heights but same gameplay..

Why don't you go ahead and give me an example of how they play similar, exluding their rebounding skill.

because they both have great athleticism and they use it down low

So I guess Greg Oden = Antonio McDyess = Keon Clark = Dwight Howard = Chris Bosh, etc. "because they both have great athleticism and they use it down low" is far to general.

There's no doubt in my mind Oden will be one of the most dominant big men in the NBA, if not the most dominant :-p

It's different going into the NBA as a center compared to a guard/SF like durant. A center like Oden is going against smaller guys now, but in the NBA he'll go against the biggest and strongest and wont be able to post up as easy.

Oden will be a great NBA player, so will durant. Durant will just sprout quicker than oden, oden will take a few years before becoming a good nba player. These guys are only 18 years old though :-p They are the best in college basketball right now, they will definitely make an impact on the NBA.

Oden IMO is NBA-ready, he needs a good teacher and trainer to get his skills/strength/speed/etc up. If he improves his mid-range shot/hook shot like he's shown improvement with all year he will be great.

this guy is a 7 foot animal. as the saying goes, you can't teach 7 feet.

i think at worse he'll be an Emeka Okafor in the league.


nice to see you back mr. hefty

The thing is Oden is all about championships from his hs career at lawrence north to his college career at ohio state (even though they will never win against florida in the final) you cannot deny him that. You just see it in him everytime he plays. He does not take games off (see vince carter in toronto and sometimes in nj and mcgrady in his last days at orlando). He looks deceiving but he really is a game changer inside and he really cares about his teammates more than anything else. I think he'll do the same when he is ready to step in the NBA. As told by Don Nelson to Bill Russell "There are two types of superstars. One makes himself look good at the expense of the other guys on the floor. But there's another type who makes the players around him look better than they are, and that's the type Russell was." The same could be said to Oden. His not about stats he is about championships period.

I wonder if being so close to a title will make him stay 1 more year.

If Oden is as good as the pre-injury McDyess that's still pretty good...not all-time great...but still all-star level...

I'm surpised no one said anything about this:

Just remembr this, 3.4 blocks per game using your off hand on most of them is one tough feat. I'm no center but to me, blocking shots with my left hand is damn hard (just so you know I am actually pretty good with my left hand with everything else, so its not like I'm still learning how to lay it up using my off hand).

Then you'll never be a great defensive player...the left hand is the key hand on defense because 90% of the time your opponent is shooting with his right hand, so your hand lines up with his and you aren't out of position.

All the great ones have blocked shots with the left hand, and control-blocked them. (See: Duncan and Russell...and Yao even...who don't swat shots, but tip them to teammates...although Yao isn't a definate one-hand shot blocker...he uses both hands which gets him into foul trouble and is another story...)





Notice, that if Russell misses on any of those blocks, he's still in position. Boone would be out of position. (I use that Boone picture because it turned up in my Russell search and it's a good enough example.)

There. That should erase any doubts. Nobody showed up for us today except for the big man.

One more year Greg, please.

I thought Conley did fairly well.

Of course, using a lot of the tortured logic people use. Oden's 25 and 12 PROVES that he isn't good enough to play in the NBA. If he's so great why didn't he carry his team to victory? And since his team didn't win, he clearly isn't the best. If he was the best, they would've won, and since they didn't win he isn't the best.

To be half serious though, I'm slightly dissapointed. I was half expecting him to unwrap his wrist and then drop a 40/20 game with 10 blocks. Grin into the camera for half a second leaving everyone with a "did I see an emotion?" moment as ESPN/CBS both fail to find it on the videotape.

To be honest, the stats say he's great, but I don't get Noah. He looks like a more mobile Mikki Moore most of the time.

there you go. oden couldn't win the national championship and carmelo did LOL

that means he's not ready for the nba and this show that Noah is better than him LOl

Lol, yup. That Natl Championship decides who's ready or not. If you never win one you might as well never declare for the draft.




Actually, I've historically been an Oden hater and was rooting for Florida(for my sis) but I gotta say he did impress me last night. He only looks lazy through his facial expression but I thought he worked hard. He blocked (4) and altered quite a few shots and showed good composure on his shots. Maybe his stamina isnt quite there all the time but he showed heart to me.

Now is where I admit I have never seen him play besides on highlights. I'll say this though, if they better utilized Oden early in the game (like eeeeeearly) instead of making that wierd shooting form kid throw up 3s I think we'd have been talking of a different national champ. There were a few time at that period Oden worked hard for position and guys decides to take jumpshots instead but I think you gotta give it to him. They couldnt stop him unless 'he' missed. As well, the Gators would run down the court and score to stretch the lead. If Ohio State kept it close early on the winner would definitely be up in the air.

Its funny though because when comparing bigs, Oden lost the Natl Championship but his stock rose while Noah's just slightly went down.

Noahs stock could only go down after last season. He probably would have went #1 (well maybe if someone other than the Raps were drafting). This season though, it's all about Durant & Oden and no matter what anyone else does those 2 will go #1 & 2 if they declare.

Of course, using a lot of the tortured logic people use. Oden's 25 and 12 PROVES that he isn't good enough to play in the NBA. If he's so great why didn't he carry his team to victory? And since his team didn't win, he clearly isn't the best. If he was the best, they would've won, and since they didn't win he isn't the best.

Which means Durant would be what, a second round pick? /sarcasm

I think Ohio State has underutilized Oden all year. I think there is a real divide between the upperclassmen and the freshmen. They just don't seem to quite have the chemistry of team like say, Florida who returned all five starters from last years national champ team. I think Oden is ready. As for the nitpicking about Oden's conditioning, the man played 38 minutes against a team with very active mobile bigs. I wouldn't worry too much about his conditioning.

I doubt Oden or Noah's stock changed much, most teams don't really care about the tournament as much as their individual performance when the player does a personal workout for them.

Last year's top 3: Andrea - no tournament, Alridge - early exit, Morrison - early exit. UCLA went to the Finals but Farmar was almost drafted 2nd round.

I don't think Noah was ever considered on the same tier as Oden/Durant, he's just probably the best pick outside of those two franchise changing guys. I can see him being a good roleplayer in the NBA, like Chandler.

........ I can see him being a good roleplayer in the NBA, like Chandler.

I do agree but I see him more like Marcus Camby

I'm no Oden fan but Oden is tougher and stronger than Camby and Chandler combined.

I believe he was refering to Noah with the Chandler comment.