Chicago Bulls Thread

[Andrew]

But on the other hand ... why shouldn't the Wolves do it?

They probably wouldn't be interested in such a deal since they KG is worth more than that, he's not exactly in decline and they're making a run for a playoff spot this year. But as I said, it doesn't work under the salary cap so it can't be done regardless.

Eventually you can't just fire every guy that doesn't get along with Skiles. I'll ask this...would Jordan have gotten along with Skiles? Hell no.

That's what I was getting at before and I guess the same goes for Paxson. Paxson and Skiles seem to share a certain vision when it comes to ideal players and while I don't dislike or disagree entirely with their blueprint I do wonder if it's at times shortsighted or whether in some cases it's a matter of cutting off the nose to spite the face, even if it's just seeking more in return for these players who aren't deemed a good fit.

[air gordon]

andrew:
good question-is skiles a championship caliber coach? problem is- i don't think the roster is championship caliber. i think Skiles does get the most out of his players. if someone like Phil Jackson or Pat Riley was coaching this current roster, i don't think there would be significant difference in wins, probably more media coverage though hehe

yeh Skiles will have those brain cramps when he sticks with certain lineups too long but i was thinking- don't other coaches do that occasionally? i think we as bulls fans tend to over analyze Skiles tactics since we've been tortured with those Jannero Pargo led lineups in the 4th quarter in the past

Hinrich did get the new contract. iirc though i'm not sure of the exact terminology- Gordon and Deng did resign so they are on board through next year. however Nocioni contract is up this year and he's in for a sizeable raise. factor in Gordon/Deng will get big contracts and Ben Wallace's salary, that's a lot of $$ being paid.

my guess since hinrich got $11 mil (according to hoopshype- though i think that's wrong- though it was $7/8 mill annually?), Deng and Gordon will be asking for the same.

i am disappointed they didn't land Abdur-rahim. bulls beat writer KC johnson suggested the Bulls were weary of taking on the $18mil left on his contract but c'mon- its a 3yr contract. not a bad sacrifice for a player that fills a big need

big easy:
i think we agree Paxson made the right decision on those players
i guess i'm happy for Tyson that he's busting out but when i read in his Espn Mag feature back in the offseason that he for the first time really committed himself to getting stronger and working on his skills, i was pretty damned pissed....yes Tim Thomas did cause problems

maes- Memphis wouldn't want to take on Chandler's big contract in the first place. from what i gathered, West wanted a good young player and/or 1st round draft pick along with some expiring contracts

i don't care much for other teams wanting to get in a bidding war for garbage- which thomas is. the Bulls already have Nocioni for this coveted "10 & 5" role you speak of and he plays better defense, plays hard, and is a leader

would Jordan get along with Skiles? would it even matter?!!! Jordan had the heart and drive to be a champion. that's all that would matter to Skiles and Paxson

yes some championship teams do have risky type players playing key roles but those guys (Rasheed, Rodman, etc) were near or at all star levels

i don't care if Skiles/Paxson are "cutting their nose to spite their face" if they are doing it for players like Tim Thomas, Jr smith, etc... you can't get much for garbage in the first place (unless you're dealing with Zeke )

[raptor_eye]

sorry i still don't see Gasol as a true all-star, Ben Wallace i remind you was in lots of All-Star games as well, but he was certainly no Shaq or Yao Ming etc...

I just don't feel its worth it trading away good young players that WILL get better for a player that is on the bottom of the list of all-stars and more just a great player.

though this is all IMO, so take what you will from it...

And as other people have said if he does not get along with Skiles, where FUCKED.

Though a interesting thought would be, would KG get along with skiles if a trade did go through?

It seems right know every bull fan, and people in the bulls organisation want there (including me) Jackson, Jordan and Pippen back, but its not going to happen...(well unless Pippen does return to the NBA, but he certainly won't be at his Prime, meh i'm going off track)

But none of that matters know, trade deadline has come and gone, and nothing really happened.

The bulls are on a nice run and hopefully Ben Wallace can put in performances like he did against Cleavland more often and Gordon can hover around that 20(preferably 25, but i can't expect to much) points per game...

Bulls for the 2nd Round!!!

[The X]

I still stand by my initial thought that Bulls should've drafted LaMarcus Aldridge. He might not be there yet, but will be a very good post player for years to come. If they had of drafted him, the need to trade for someone like Gasol wouldn't have been so needed.

[Matt]

touche......Aldridge has been playing pretty well in Portland.

Anyways, i think tonight showed why Luol Deng is a keeper and if anything Gordon should be traded.

[Andrew]

good question-is skiles a championship caliber coach? problem is- i don't think the roster is championship caliber. i think Skiles does get the most out of his players. if someone like Phil Jackson or Pat Riley was coaching this current roster, i don't think there would be significant difference in wins, probably more media coverage though hehe

That's true, which is why there's no reason to give him the boot right now. It's not as though he has a championship calibre roster and isn't getting the job done. However, assuming Paxson makes the right moves the roster should start to take shape as one that can make a deep playoff run. Do you think Skiles would still be the right coach? Personally I think he should be given a chance but can't shake the feeling at some point someone else will need to take the reigns to get to the next level.

yeh Skiles will have those brain cramps when he sticks with certain lineups too long but i was thinking- don't other coaches do that occasionally? i think we as bulls fans tend to over analyze Skiles tactics since we've been tortured with those Jannero Pargo led lineups in the 4th quarter in the past

Agreed, he's not the only one. These things always seem to stand out when it's your favourite team though.

Hinrich did get the new contract. iirc though i'm not sure of the exact terminology- Gordon and Deng did resign so they are on board through next year. however Nocioni contract is up this year and he's in for a sizeable raise. factor in Gordon/Deng will get big contracts and Ben Wallace's salary, that's a lot of $$ being paid.

Ah, OK. I wasn't sure if they signed extensions, agreed to extensions or the Bulls simply exercised an option on the fourth year of their deals.

i don't care if Skiles/Paxson are "cutting their nose to spite their face" if they are doing it for players like Tim Thomas, Jr smith, etc... you can't get much for garbage in the first place (unless you're dealing with Zeke )

Granted, it's not on the level of a trade a former Bulls executive we could mention once made but weren't you saying late last season that they could be using Thomas as a scoring punch off the bench rather than letting him go for nothing in return?

Another victory today, making the Bulls 5-1 in Foxtel appearances. Some thoughts...

- Hinrich was great in the second half, I was hoping he'd cap it off with the triple double. Nice to see him perform well at home.

- Deng made scoring 32 points a lot easier than it probably was. Gordon was quiet but a solid performance considering he sat most of the fourth quarter. Obviously the team does still need a low post scoring presence but I'm glad those guys are still on the roster.

- What a block by Tyrus Thomas on Blatche's dunk attempt! If he'd managed to put home that tip dunk off his own miss without committing the over the back, I'd be campaigning for it to be top ten in some countdown category for the season.

- No disrespect intended, but Malik Allen isn't quite good enough to shoot whenever he touches the ball. He's usually good for a couple of midrange jumpers per game, of course.

[Dan's Brain]

Also on the wizards game -

A very solid performance by Thabo, stepping up when Duhon was ejected. Did all of the little things, wasnt completely destroyed by Hibachi. his shooting mechanics are great, and when he develops a little more consistency, he is going to be a terrific player.

And on the Duhon ejection, a fucking disgrace. Wasnt his foul to begin with, and then the double technical came way too fast. Seems like something we would have seen much earlier in the season.

My plays of the day, in addition to the Tyrus Thomas show were Kirk's steal on Stevenson, as he was changing dribbling hands with his back to the defender. And Adrian Griffin's steal from behind Stevenson (?) that Kirk ended up with, resulting in the alley-oop to Deng.


Next up: Big Ben's Palace return. Wish this game was televised here too.

[Martti.]

I remember the game against the Lakers, where Thabo shot Kobe down.. He saw a lot of minutes and Kobe scored only 18..

[air gordon]

andrew:

i think Skiles should be given a chance as well if the team improves to a championship caliber type. though i do think Paxson won't hesitate to bring in someone else, maybe Larry Brown. who knows- not many good candidates at this time

you got the wording right- gordon & deng did exercise their option on 4th yr of their contracts

you're right- i did say the bulls could have used thomas but that wasn't going to happen with this attitude. more of a hindsight thing saying the team could have used his scoring.


now if Aldridge is supposedly playing well then Tyrus Thomas should be All NBA lmao

X: maybe the Bulls should have picked Aldridge but right now he's Brian Cook/Brad Sellers. it doesn't look like he likes to mix it up on the blocks but rather would take midrange jumpers/have a faceup game. not exactly the makings of a low post force lol

[maes]

I still stand by my initial thought that Bulls should've drafted LaMarcus Aldridge. He might not be there yet, but will be a very good post player for years to come. If they had of drafted him, the need to trade for someone like Gasol wouldn't have been so needed.

They did draft him...but there's a curse where anybody over 6' 9" gets traded.

I wish the Bulls did what many writers predicted and picked Roy. I know what people say, "we don't need Roy because we have Gordon."

And you know what people say in Portland? "We didn't need Michael Jordan because we had Clyde Drexler" --- also known as the Biggest Mistake in NBA History.

I'm not claiming Roy is any MJ of course, just that you always draft the best talent, not by position.

[air gordon]

and it cuts both ways

back in 2000 the Bulls chose Marcus Fizer when they already had Elton Brand. i think fizer is working at a car wash in northbrook, IL

and the bulls did pick the best talent at their spot. aside from bargani- Thomas had the highest upside of any player in the draft



once again, the bulls found a way to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Orlando's size caused problems though it was Nelson who had some key points. and again, i must mention Dwight Howard is a beast! i think it was doug collins who pointed out how Dwight Howard makes Amare Stoudemire look small lol

the bulls did go 2-1 against the Easts best teams (detroit, wash, clev) so thats a something to keep us bulls fans from jumping off the ledge hehe

and as usual, thanks for the cerebral, very detailed post, matt

[Andrew]

And on the Duhon ejection, a fucking disgrace. Wasnt his foul to begin with, and then the double technical came way too fast. Seems like something we would have seen much earlier in the season.

I forgot to mention that. I completely agree, it was far too quick and a call I'd hoped we'd seen the last of when they starting easing up on the "anything more than a polite smile when a foul is called or you think a foul should have been called equals a technical" approach we saw in the early weeks of the season.

I remember the game against the Lakers, where Thabo shot Kobe down.. He saw a lot of minutes and Kobe scored only 18..

Thabo also had an amazing up and under layup in that game. One of my favourite games of the 2007 season so far.

i think Skiles should be given a chance as well if the team improves to a championship caliber type. though i do think Paxson won't hesitate to bring in someone else, maybe Larry Brown. who knows- not many good candidates at this time

If nothing else, the lack of good candidates is reason enough to keep Skiles. No point dismissing a coach who's doing a good job if there isn't anyone available who can do the job any better. After all, we've seen that happen before.

[Matt]

looks like Brown & Wallace didn't have the best of games?

[The X]

I still stand by my initial thought that Bulls should've drafted LaMarcus Aldridge. He might not be there yet, but will be a very good post player for years to come. If they had of drafted him, the need to trade for someone like Gasol wouldn't have been so needed.

They did draft him...but there's a curse where anybody over 6' 9" gets traded.

I wish the Bulls did what many writers predicted and picked Roy. I know what people say, "we don't need Roy because we have Gordon."

And you know what people say in Portland? "We didn't need Michael Jordan because we had Clyde Drexler" --- also known as the Biggest Mistake in NBA History.

I'm not claiming Roy is any MJ of course, just that you always draft the best talent, not by position.

well the Bulls did need a big guard so Roy would've been a good pick....

[maes]

and it cuts both ways

back in 2000 the Bulls chose Marcus Fizer when they already had Elton Brand. i think fizer is working at a car wash in northbrook, IL

and the bulls did pick the best talent at their spot. aside from bargani- Thomas had the highest upside of any player in the draft

Fizer was an example of taking an undersized 6' 8" college PF with zero face-up game and hoping he can dominate the post like he did in college.

And recently the Bulls have also taken a 6' 8" college PF who made splashes in college but has no face-up game and not enough size for the position.

I'll be the first to say height isn't everything, but sometimes it hurts. Like if you play Orlando with Howard & Darko, who each get 16 rebounds, half of them offensive.

[Jackal]

Here's a cool story about MJ & Pippen, Bulls of yesteryears.

It starts with Jordan shooting around at practice at old Chicago Stadium when he looks up and notices the m&m race on the jumbotron. Curious, he asks one of the Bulls' staffers what's up and learns what he is seeing is actually a dry run-through of the night's in-game entertainment, in which the jumbotron and m&m race factor prominently. Naturally, MJ wanted to know if the winner of the race was predetermined. Of course the 8-bit graphics betrayed the answer: a resounding "yes".

So later that night, Phil calls a time out and Jordan & co. repair to the bench. As he's sitting down, he looks up at the jumbotron to see the m&m race about to start. So he nudges Scottie.

MJ: "Bet you 5 grand yellow takes this."

Pip: "Bet."

I'm told this went on for years before Scottie ever got wise...

Source.

Gave me a good laugh, hope it does the same for you.

[---]

Cunning MJ.

The luggage story was the best I think:

Theres a famous gambling story about Michael Jordan. Actually, there are many famous gambling stories about MJ, but this one is my favorite. Back before NBA teams had grasped the rejuvenating power of chartered airplanes, the Bulls were waiting for their luggage in Portland when Jordan slapped a hunny on the conveyor belt: I bet you my bags come out first. Jumping on the incredibly favorable odds, nine teammates happily accepted the wager. Sure enough, Jordans bags led the rollout. He cackled with delight as he collected everyones money.

What none of the suckers knew, and what MJ presumably never told them, was that he had bribed a baggage handler to help him out. He didnt pocket much a few hundred bucks, and considering his net worth hovered around nine figures at the time, its safe to say he didnt need the extra cash. But that didnt matter. There was a chance at an easy score, and he took it.

I find that hilarious

Reading about MJ brings me back to when I lived in Rangiora. For some reason in that small town everyone loved basketball, and everyone loved the Bulls. My teacher had a Bulls logo tattooed on his leg. I miss those days...

I even still have the tiny ass Chicago Bulls t-shirt I used to wear to school almost everyday. That reminds me, I once wore a Phoenix Suns cap to school (I wanted to be different to everyone else haha) and told one of the older kids that Charles Barkley was better than Michael Jordan... I got beat up after school and never wore that cap again

Sorry for going off topic, but now I'm gonna go to Rangiora this weekend and see my old school. Memories...

[Slizz]

Wow Thabo my man had a great game against the Warriors:
19 Pts. 4 Reb. 3 A. 2-3 3pt... in 23 min. plus no turnovers... of wich he had too many in the past

[air gordon]

and it cuts both ways

back in 2000 the Bulls chose Marcus Fizer when they already had Elton Brand. i think fizer is working at a car wash in northbrook, IL

and the bulls did pick the best talent at their spot. aside from bargani- Thomas had the highest upside of any player in the draft

Fizer was an example of taking an undersized 6' 8" college PF with zero face-up game and hoping he can dominate the post like he did in college.

And recently the Bulls have also taken a 6' 8" college PF who made splashes in college but has no face-up game and not enough size for the position.

I'll be the first to say height isn't everything, but sometimes it hurts. Like if you play Orlando with Howard & Darko, who each get 16 rebounds, half of them offensive.

heh let's not get into semantics here- it's clear that Fizer was chosen based because he was perceived as the best talent available

let's be realistic here- i think howard and darko will give any team problems, especially when darko has his game on

i don't see how drafting a 6'6 combo guard with short arms would help alleviate this rebounding problem... which maybe isn't a that big of a problem since the Bulls are in top 10 in rebounding. Webber clearly pushed brown out of the way and then the team runs into that beastly orlando frontcourt and all of a sudden some people shit their pants. GSW had every guy crash the offensive boards and that didn't work out for them....

despite having no size or face up game, Thomas has already played a key role in a few Bulls wins and he's just coming off the bench/playing the fewest minutes amongst the rooks

and if Brown is out, Thomas will be starting

Wow Thabo my man had a great game against the Warriors:
19 Pts. 4 Reb. 3 A. 2-3 3pt... in 23 min. plus no turnovers... of wich he had too many in the past

go Thabo! Noce's injury should open up more minutes for him

MJ and gambling stories- there are plenty worse out there. in the Jordan rules there was a story about Pip, Ho Grant, and iirc Jordan making a bet on who's baby boy had the biggest wanker... Pip's baby won

[benji]

A few thoughts...

I believe that the Bulls offseason moves were moves that made sense then, but they don't make a lot of sense currently. You had Wallace so you could let Chandler go for Brown's contract which would be a big trading commodity. And J.R. Smith was redundant (also at the time a lousy shooter and the worst perimeter defender in the league) and wouldn't see a lot of time, so he was easy to let go.

However, I think I'm with Simmons on passing on the Gasol deal. Bulls should've pulled the trigger on any Deng/Thomas/Brown/Knicks Pick for Gasol talk.

Some points before I move on:
1. Curry is not having an "all-star" season, sure he's having his seemingly best year, but it's only slightly better than what he's done in the past. It's just that the media is obsessed with the Knicks and overrates all it's "name" players. (Why we heard things like "adding Marbury makes them the Eastern favorites" back in 2004, and why Sprewell and Houston made All-Star teams they shouldn't have been within fifty miles of.)
2. Chandler isn't really having a "breakout season" either. He's just repeating his performance of two years ago. Last season he slumped terribly, other than the higher shooting percentage he's having a very similar year to 2005 this season.

One thing to lament about that Chandler deal, is that a Wallace-Chandler frontline would've probably given the Bulls the best defense in the league by a good margin.

The problem I see with not making this Gasol deal, is that the team as is, just isn't good enough to win a title. Adding just Gasol doesn't make them automatic favorites, but does make them a legitimate contender because he's one of the 20 best players in the league. And I'm losing faith in the development of the "core" as they're all mostly the same players they were two years ago with higher shooting percentages.

Take a look:
Deng 04/05: 17pts 8rebs 3asts .496ts 13.9asr 12.2to 21.1usg 10.8reb
Deng 06/07: 20pts 8rebs 2.5asts .566ts 10.8asr 9.0to 20.1usg 10.8reb

Duhon 04/05: 9pts 4rebs 7asts .471ts 34.8asr 11.5to 17.3usg 5.5reb
Duhon 06/07: 12pts 4rebs 7asts .544ts 34.2asr 10.8to 14.9usg 5.3reb

Gordon 04/05: 25pts 4rebs 3asts .526ts 10.8asr 12.2to 27.5usg 6.0reb
Gordon 06/07: 26.5pts 4rebs 4.5asts .573ts 14.4asr 12.2to 27.9usg 5.6reb

Hinrich 04/05: 17pts 4rebs 7asts .495ts 26.2asr 9.3to 24.8usg 6.1reb
Hinrich 06/07: 18pts 4rebs 7asts .555ts 27.3asr 10.0to 20.4usg 5.5reb

Nocioni 04/05: 14pts 8rebs 2.5asts .484ts 12.3asr 14.1to 18.0usg 11.4reb
Nocioni 06/07: 21.5pts 8.5rebs 1.5asts .578ts 7.0asr 12.9to 21.5usg 12.0reb

Noiconi and Deng stopped passing, while everyone's shooting percentage is up. If those shooting percentages revert to career averages (51% Deng, 53% Gordon, 51% Hinrich) then the players have barely improved anywhere else offensively.

Losing Deng hurts, but you're replacing him and Brown with Gasol. If these guys aren't developing into stars and their big "third-year jump" was the shooting percentage (and it's not just a random change as shooting percentage flux often is) then this team will definately not be good enough to win while Wallace is still useful. As Simmons noted, you can use Gasol for a half-season, then try to flip him for O'Neal or Garnett. If you're making the Garnett deal in the offseason you're losing a lot more (Gordon?) than you would if you had made the Gasol deal now. (A Brown-for-Shareef deal would've been fine, but wouldn't have given the team the star player it needs, nor pushed them over in the East.)

It's fun to compare the 2007 Bulls (19th on offense, 2nd on defense) with the 2004 Pistons (18th on offense, 2nd on defense...for the season...) and this could've been the Bulls' Sheed-James deal. If they could've gotten Atkins in the deal with Gasol too? They would be the runaway favorites in the East right now. Gasol and Atkins would've pushed the Bulls into the top half of the league on offense and the Bulls wouldn't have dropped out of the top three on defense.

I assume the Bulls are essentially committed to four max or near-max deals for Wallace-Deng-Gordon-Hinrich. The problem is, that core isn't good enough to do it. As of this moment, Gordon and Deng's celings look more like Rashard Lewis and Pedja Stojakovic (overall level, not style) than Jordan and Pippen. They can't add free agents, and they don't have the assets to trade. (If Noiconi gets a bigger contract he loses his trade value, Duhon is an iffy prospect already, the longer Thomas takes to "develop" the less value he possesses...he's already dropped a ton from his "Number One Pick" high, etc.) The longer you keep Wallace around the less effective he becomes.

Unless they get a bargin for Garnett in the offseason (i.e. only one player of the "core") passing on this Gasol deal gave up their chance to contend. And it's back to rebuilding again.

[The X]

I concur with Benji....whilst I love their core, it won't get it done....why not trade one or some of it to move to the next level....a frontcourt of Wallace/Gasol/Nocioni would've been easily the best in the East & tough as nails....they would've lost Deng, but they would still have Hinrich, Gordon, Duhon & Thabo....now that's a nucleus that's going to win East....

[Dan's Brain]

Take a look:
Deng 04/05: 17pts 8rebs 3asts .496ts 13.9asr 12.2to 21.1usg 10.8reb
Deng 06/07: 20pts 8rebs 2.5asts .566ts 10.8asr 9.0to 20.1usg 10.8reb

Duhon 04/05: 9pts 4rebs 7asts .471ts 34.8asr 11.5to 17.3usg 5.5reb
Duhon 06/07: 12pts 4rebs 7asts .544ts 34.2asr 10.8to 14.9usg 5.3reb

Gordon 04/05: 25pts 4rebs 3asts .526ts 10.8asr 12.2to 27.5usg 6.0reb
Gordon 06/07: 26.5pts 4rebs 4.5asts .573ts 14.4asr 12.2to 27.9usg 5.6reb

Hinrich 04/05: 17pts 4rebs 7asts .495ts 26.2asr 9.3to 24.8usg 6.1reb
Hinrich 06/07: 18pts 4rebs 7asts .555ts 27.3asr 10.0to 20.4usg 5.5reb

Nocioni 04/05: 14pts 8rebs 2.5asts .484ts 12.3asr 14.1to 18.0usg 11.4reb
Nocioni 06/07: 21.5pts 8.5rebs 1.5asts .578ts 7.0asr 12.9to 21.5usg 12.0reb

What are those numbers?

[Andrew]

I concur with Benji....whilst I love their core, it won't get it done....why not trade one or some of it to move to the next level....a frontcourt of Wallace/Gasol/Nocioni would've been easily the best in the East & tough as nails....they would've lost Deng, but they would still have Hinrich, Gordon, Duhon & Thabo....now that's a nucleus that's going to win East....

A lot of people have said that Gasol would have made the Bulls a lock for the Eastern Finals and some have even gone so far as saying they'd be looking at a possible NBA Finals appearance but I'm not convinced. Pau Gasol's teams are yet to win a single playoff game let alone a playoff series thus it's difficult to see him as a player who pushes the Bulls immediately into contention. Having said that, improving the team may well come down to trading one of the core players in the near future but I don't think Gasol was the right choice, especially since the Grizzlies were supposedly still intent on Deng and Gordon.

Anyway, another victory today. No SC highlights on ESPN.com but I caught Thomas' vicious dunk during the Nuggets/Rockets game. Wouldn't surprise me to see it on next week's Top Ten.

Foxtel Update: Bulls/Magic will indeed be shown this Friday on Fox Sports. Hopefully my detective work with the rest of the March Fox Sports NBA schedule will prove to be correct as well since we should be seeing a couple more as well.

[benji]

A lot of people have said that Gasol would have made the Bulls a lock for the Eastern Finals and some have even gone so far as saying they'd be looking at a possible NBA Finals appearance but I'm not convinced. Pau Gasol's teams are yet to win a single playoff game let alone a playoff series thus it's difficult to see him as a player who pushes the Bulls immediately into contention.

Bold emphasis mine.

As great as Shane Battier and Mike Miller/James Posey were, the Grizzlies wouldn't have even won 45-50 games and made the playoffs without Pau. Associating the Grizzlies' inability to defeat the Spurs, Suns and Mavericks with Pau's capability to improve the Bulls is illogical.

Adding Pau, a star who sucks up possessions and is super efficient would improve the Bulls weakness: offense. The other "contenders" (.500+ quality teams) in the East all have a star player (Billups...and oddly enough Webber recently, LeBron, Bosh, Wade, Carter/Kidd) that the Bulls can't guarantee to match. They have to rely on the rest of the team to overwhelm people by a significant margin, and against the top tier teams that is less likely as they are deeper. With Gasol they would have had that star to match the other star, making the rest of the team easier to overwhelm.

The Pistons and Bulls should be the only contenders in the East, and the Bulls while an equal number of players deep aren't near as strong individually as the Pistons.

It is not a question of whether the Bulls could win now, it's that the Bulls HAVE to win now. They don't have a long term team with this group, this is a short term team, they have to get through the East in the next couple years, and the East has to stay the wasteland that it is. You cannot afford to be isolationist with this Bulls team, you have to get out and find pieces to win now. They had a chance to try that with the Gasol deal, but they passed on it. An error in judgement in my opinion.

[Carmo]

I would just like to say that Tyrus Thomas' block and dunk play yesterday was probably the play of the season. I was in awe after that.....