Chicago Bulls Thread

[beau_boy04]

Gasol is nothing please Chicago Bulls go pursue Chris Bosh instead!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[kinokong]

why would toronto want to give up chris bosh when they're on a nice little run and adding some stability to a franchise that hasn't had one since vc attended his nc graduation ceremony.. and i agree with maes' point of view about paxson letting a lot of quality big men leave without much compensation.... but considering the position paxson was forced in (chandler needed a change of scenery before busting out as a defensive force he was drafted to be and it took curry a near fatal blow to his life along with controversy over a new contract) you can't really blame him for throwing them away. thomas, curry, chandler, and jr smith didn't fit in with the mold they wanted so paxson did the best salvage job he could... you also have to remember those respective players didn't have much value in their collective times in chicago

[Ashman23]

Is this where I sound like a dick and say I traded for Bosh in my Dynasty.

Anyway he would be a great addition to the team , but I can't even imagine what the Bulls would have to give up for him.

[Andrew]

That was a cruel loss today...to come all the way back in the final 2:44 to take the lead only to lose on a couple of free throws. I'll take the blame for it though, I did bring up the winning streak over the Raptors. I guess jinxes never die.

[Dan's Brain]

yeah, i killed the foxtel run by bringing it up too.

[MC Snowy]

So you guys finally got to see the Raptors on Foxtel? I thought the Bulls were going to win after Ben Gordon's layup+foul. Anyway, I'm glad the streak is over.

BTW, we could meet in the playoffs... bring it on! lol

[maes]

Bulls are little weak on the road. I believe the Bulls would have the worst road record of the playoff teams if they started today.

you also have to remember those respective players didn't have much value in their collective times in chicago

I agree, it's a pure hindsight-is-20/20 type of observation. I shouldn't complain, Paxson really turned this team around quickly from the Krause era.

[ThaLiveKing]

Gasol is nothing please Chicago Bulls go pursue Chris Bosh instead!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Gasol is nyce, to say he's nothing is ignorant, he's the reason why Memphis is good!! And PLEAAASSEE, Bosh ain't Leavin Toronto, We finally have a franchise player that wants to stay here. . . unless management decides to fuck the team up again, but I doubt it's ever gonna happen under Colangelo

[btam2]

Gasol is nothing please Chicago Bulls go pursue Chris Bosh instead!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Gasol is nyce, to say he's nothing is ignorant, he's the reason why Memphis is good!! And PLEAAASSEE, Bosh ain't Leavin Toronto, We finally have a franchise player that wants to stay here. . . unless management decides to fuck the team up again, but I doubt it's ever gonna happen under Colangelo

Bosh would def. be a great addition but I agree he's not gonna wanna leave. He's got a great thing for himself up in Toronto. They sure as hell probably don't want to trade away an All-Star if he wants to stay unless Colangelo wants to go full out Euro team for Toronto. Giving Bargnani a few more years and him and Bosh...wow

As for the Bulls, I really hope they can find someone for Ben Wallace that's gonna be like a Rasheed to him. I wouldn't mind having Gasol here but I personally don't want to give up one of the cores. I want to give them maybe another year or two to really see what they can do. Don't wanna give up on them so quickly and then later regret it (Brad Miller, Elton Brand). I don't think Bulls are gonna get Gasol though, or anyone of great impact as long as Pax doesn't wanna give up a core. Who else could we trade away for an All-Star? It's really tough. I'm hoping maybe one day (by next year) Tyrus can really step up and be that guy who's somewhat of a Rasheed for Big Ben. Pax so far has done good with picking out guys, and I remember when the young core first got together, they were far from where they are now especially Deng and Duhon but they're really improved. Same hope goes for Sefalosha.

[Andrew]

[color=darkblue]So you guys finally got to see the Raptors on Foxtel? I thought the Bulls were going to win after Ben Gordon's layup+foul. Anyway, I'm glad the streak is over.

Not yet, it wasn't actually shown here. I was just keep tracking of the live scores on Yahoo.

Gasol is nothing please Chicago Bulls go pursue Chris Bosh instead!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No question Bosh would be great to have and I'm sure a lot of teams would feel that way, but there's no way the Raptors would be looking to deal him right now and the way they're playing right now gives him very little reason to demand a trade. Pursuing him would be a fruitless endeavour since I doubt Toronto would seriously entertain any trade proposals at the moment.

As for the Bulls, I really hope they can find someone for Ben Wallace that's gonna be like a Rasheed to him. I wouldn't mind having Gasol here but I personally don't want to give up one of the cores. I want to give them maybe another year or two to really see what they can do. Don't wanna give up on them so quickly and then later regret it (Brad Miller, Elton Brand).

That's what concerns me, too. I've seen that train of thought dismissed as "sentimental attachment" on other message boards but breaking up the core wouldn't just be giving away players we like, it would be giving away talented players who have thus far produced a winning record as well as turning in some impressive performances throughout the season. I think the recent struggles have a lot of people pushing the panic button and while they really need to pull themselves out of this tailspin before they find themselves in a really bad spot, a massive shakeup still seems premature.

[air gordon]

way to keep the thread alive...

i'm pretty much on the boat with Andrew here regarding a possible Gasol trade (surprise)... if there was one guy to trade for a post scorer, it should be Deng. as mentioned already, it defeats the purpose of having that post guy if you don't have a capable perimeter scorer like Gordon to compliment him

Deng's having a fine season but i think it's possible that Deng is close to hitting his talent ceiling. Deng probably won't ever be able to overpower/blow by defenders or be an elite defensive player since he is just above average athletically. he's a very solid player but a player of his skillset is worth sacrificing for a team that sorely lacks a post scoring

also i think one factor here not mentioned is team chemistry. Wallace's transition on the Bulls has been ok at best. Deng probably has been the team's most consistent player. i'm not sure Pax would want to make another big change midway through the regular season. plus i'm not quite sold on Gasol. i like seeing Gasol on the highlights but not sure about him being on the Bulls. sometimes he plays like a sissy and he sure complains a lot about officiating. but maybe going to a team where he doesn't have to be the best player may change his attitude

with the way the East is shaping up- the Bulls should be in no hurry to make a blockbuster trade. with the exception of Detroit, there are no clear cut teams that own the conference now and the next year or so


randomn observations-
-finally duhon is out of his slump. should drive his trade value up
-PJ Brown has been playing pretty good. i'm surprised to see them run some plays for him in the post
-can't wait for Noce to return. they need his scoring
-too bad Hinrich can't play at home like how he does on the road
-tyrus thomas gets the foot in the mouth award for the week. maybe he'll be inspired to win the thing since he has to pay that fine. (i don't think this was mentioned nationally but he is planning to donate his earnings from the dunk contest to schools... so maybe he's not the jerk that some people are making him out to be.. ahem sam smith)

[Andrew]

plus i'm not quite sold on Gasol. i like seeing Gasol on the highlights but not sure about him being on the Bulls. sometimes he plays like a sissy and he sure complains a lot about officiating. but maybe going to a team where he doesn't have to be the best player may change his attitude

His attitude concerns me as well, particularly the fact he's on the table to begin with. The Grizzlies are having a tough season mainly due to the fact Gasol missed the first couple of months leading him to return to a team with a fairly sorry record, decide he wants no part of it and asked to be traded. Now, the Bulls are in better shape than the Grizzlies this season but who's to say he won't sulk if he gets to Chicago and things don't go as planned or they hit a rough patch? Admittedly he's hasn't exactly gone Vince on the Grizz but it still bothers me.

[Ashman23]

/\ Thanks for the update and opinion AG.

[raptor_eye]

To me it just seems like the bulls have a overload of Good Players and no star player, and they need to trade for that star player, You may think of Detroit as a team without a star player, but I think you will find those players have the ability to be a star player if needed, I don't think Gordon/Hinrich/Deng can do that, except just be really good players.

Know comes to the point of who to trade or more importantly who not to trade and Hinrich is all I can think of, of course trading all the other players as well would be a disaster but I really think we need to think outside the box.

Noc, Big Ben, Thabo are also players with still decent value, though Big Ben's big contract is a worry for any team thinking of getting him.

But what do you folks think of a trade of Deng, Noc (could even throw in Duhon as well if you’re allowed to send 4 players in one deal...) & Thomas for KG & Ricky Davis.

Know looking on Minnesota's front they get rid of some big contracts and can start looking at rebuilding(because I don't see them wining anything right know...), know they already have players to sort of field the void of KG, they could run C Blount, F Deng, F Noc, G Randy Foy & G Mike James plus they have a developing Thomas coming off the bench..., because the fact is every time I look at their rooster I see WAY to many Guards...

Know looking at the Bulls front we get one of the best PF's of all time and a player in Ricky Davis who can play the SF position and is a good sort of all round player, mainly a scorer though, which would give us a Starting Line-Up of C Big Ben, F KG, F Davis, G Gordon, G Hinrich but with a know very week bench, you would have Brown as your best player off the bench, though if the rumours of Pippen returning is true then well there's a once great player to come off the bench for a few minutes. And you have some decent players to fill the Guard positions as well...

Well I was just thinking about that anyway, there is a gazillion trades that could be added up, but I don't think any of them will end up involving a player like KG, as dumb as I think it is for the GM of Min to keep KG when there barely wining, I don't think he's going to be making any trades with him.

Sorry for the incredibly long post, p:

[beau_boy04]

ok how about tank the next 2 seasons and increase your chances to get Oden and Mayo ? is that a good solution?

[kinokong]

add billy walker to that list

[maes]

The year to tank would be this one, with Oden/Durant/Wright.

Sixers, Celtics, & Memphis are all already tanking as much as possible...giving away players that might get them wins (Sixers may have to sit Iguodala if he keeps playing that way).

I was talking about Gasol with someone...we think Gasol may be a total disaster in Chicago. Skiles just has a very sketchy record with soft, finesse big men. Cases in point: Eddy Curry, Tyson Chandler, Tim Thomas. Gasol has a lot of similarities with these guys but is just more talented and fundamentally sound...but he's always been considered soft.

In the end, if we got Gasol for Hinrich/Deng, he may get benched like Thomas and we'd eventually trade him for an expiring contract.

[Andrew]

But what do you folks think of a trade of Deng, Noc (could even throw in Duhon as well if you’re allowed to send 4 players in one deal...) & Thomas for KG & Ricky Davis.

In a nutshell, it would be worth the risk of acquiring Davis (who admittedly hasn't caused any problems of note in Minnesota) to get KG. However, it's not a feasible trade since it doesn't work under the salary cap and it's highly unlikely the Timberwolves would go for it even it did.

ok how about tank the next 2 seasons and increase your chances to get Oden and Mayo ? is that a good solution?

Sorry, but that's a horrible idea. First of all, there are no guarantees with the draft lottery and second, I'd much rather the Bulls young players gain playoff experience and establish a winning culture rather than practice the shameful art of tanking seasons.

I was talking about Gasol with someone...we think Gasol may be a total disaster in Chicago. Skiles just has a very sketchy record with soft, finesse big men. Cases in point: Eddy Curry, Tyson Chandler, Tim Thomas. Gasol has a lot of similarities with these guys but is just more talented and fundamentally sound...but he's always been considered soft.

In the end, if we got Gasol for Hinrich/Deng, he may get benched like Thomas and we'd eventually trade him for an expiring contract.

That's why I feel the Bulls would be better off making a smaller deal or trying to make it work the roster they have in place at the moment, at least for this season. Breaking up the core to acquire Gasol seems a great risk for a team that is admittedly in a slump at the moment but is hardly terrible.

Of course, that also raises the question of whether Skiles is a limiting factor in their future success. I know it's become fashionable to hate on Skiles whenever the Bulls hit a rough patch and he has done a great job the past few years but at the same time there's been a few players who have been deemed unsuitable for the team and moved because they don't suit Skiles, some of them currently having fine seasons elsewhere. Is Skiles' vision of a perfect roster one that can be ultimately successful? Is Paxson discarding players that could improve the roster simply because Skiles doesn't like or is unable to utilise them?

If so, then I think at some point Skiles will need to be replaced for the Bulls to reach the next level. His disciplinarian approach is good for a young team and he's far from inept but I still wonder if his philosophy is in some ways holding the team back.

[raptor_eye]

In a nutshell, it would be worth the risk of acquiring Davis (who admittedly hasn't caused any problems of note in Minnesota) to get KG. However, it's not a feasible trade since it doesn't work under the salary cap and it's highly unlikely the Timberwolves would go for it even it did.

mmm did not factor in the salary cap, ah well....

That's why I feel the Bulls would be better off making a smaller deal or trying to make it work the roster they have in place at the moment, at least for this season. Breaking up the core to acquire Gasol seems a great risk for a team that is admittedly in a slump at the moment but is hardly terrible.

Of course, that also raises the question of whether Skiles is a limiting factor in their future success. I know it's become fashionable to hate on Skiles whenever the Bulls hit a rough patch and he has done a great job the past few years but at the same time there's been a few players who have been deemed unsuitable for the team and moved because they don't suit Skiles, some of them currently having fine seasons elsewhere. Is Skiles' vision of a perfect roster one that can be ultimately successful? Is Paxson discarding players that could improve the roster simply because Skiles doesn't like or is unable to utilise them?

If so, then I think at some point Skiles will need to be replaced for the Bulls to reach the next level. His disciplinarian approach is good for a young team and he's far from inept but I still wonder if his philosophy is in some ways holding the team back.

I agree completely, and i think getting rid of Skiles would be the 1st step know to championship contenders, i like skiles, and as you said he is good for a young team, but a team that know has experienced players, he's not so good...

Who to get in replacement? i have no idea, but a change is required...

And as for Gasol, he is still not a All-Star there is no point in making a big trade for somebody that won't give the bulls what they NEED, a All-Star, Gasol is bludy good yes, Ben Wallace/Ben Gordon good just at a different role, not KG/T-Mac good.

[Dean]

Rick Adelman could be a replacement?
But i'd rather Skiles stay.

[Matt]

And as for Gasol, he is still not a All-Star there is no point in making a big trade for somebody that won't give the bulls what they NEED, a All-Star,

in case you forgot, Gasol is an All-Star.....barring injury he probably would have been again this season. It's not like Bulls would even be giving up an All-Star in return anyway.

[air gordon]

To me it just seems like the bulls have a overload of Good Players and no star player, and they need to trade for that star player, You may think of Detroit as a team without a star player, but I think you will find those players have the ability to be a star player if needed, I don't think Gordon/Hinrich/Deng can do that, except just be really good players.

i agree. it was mentioned over all star weekend that the Bulls were the only team over .500 not to have a player make the all star team. lol wtf

i don't really like the Detroit comparison for the reasons you mentioned. though i think this comparison/total team effort idea was given to us by Paxson because in a way he was doing a sell job on both the players and the fans

but this wasn't a like sneaky car salesman thing. at the time Paxson took over- the Bulls payroll was shot and the roster was scattered with unproven youngsters and their best players were 3rd tier players at best. what was the best way to keep the fans in the house while he cleaned up house? preach teamwork, effort, and professionalism.

so he brought in a hard nosed/no nonsense coach, slowly got rid of the problem players, cleaned up the payroll

i guess this hits andrew's post as well...

now i think it's safe to say the Bulls are past the dark ages period. does that mean we still need skiles? at this point i think so.

yes there are former players who are succeeding with other teams
-JR Smith did have a hot streak but he since got suspended and now has lost his starting spot to Steve Blake of all players
-Curry has been playing at a near all star level but you couldn't give that huge contract to somenone who was diagnosed with a possible fatal heart condition, let alone someone that had to be called on the phone by his personnal trainer almost every day during the offseason to make sure he would wakeup for his workouts
-Chandler's having a breakout season but he couldn't burden the role of being the tagged the franchise 'savior' (even though year after year since his rookie year they brought in better players then him) or living up to the fat contract year he signed (and he had work ethic questions too)
-tim thomas is back to being the same player as he was before he came to the bulls- inconsistent. though i should mention he did have a nice playoff run last year- especially against the lakers
-lol what are jalen rose and eddie robinson up to. did i miss anyone else?

also i believe not only were these players not "skiles" type of players, i think these guys weren't "Paxson" type of players either. i think you got that mixed up, Andrew hehe. as much trust as Pax has in skiles, Pax is the GM.

back to skiles- he's still a hardass but he's great at coming up with schemes on both offense & defense, plus it seems he's gotten over not sitting his favorites when they are playing poor.

i think at this point it's time to start focusing more of the blame on the players when the team loses. all their key players are experienced now so it's time they take on some responsibility. Skiles still does time to time have a funky rotation though you have to think it's not Skiles fault when the team seems like it's sleepwalking for certain stretches

and maybe it's time to point the blame finger at Paxson as well if the Bulls don't make it past the 1st round. it's understandable that he has yet to bring in that "star" player- his draft record has been pretty solid and he's shown he's not willing to overspend for an all star imposter (um well Ben Wallace still has the 2nd half to step up )

it's clear that the team at the least needs a bonafide post scorer and the supposed core players- Hinrich, Gordon, Deng, Nocioni are all up for contract extensions. you can't pay them all so i think sooner or later a multi player deal is happening

all is good in Bulls land since they won last nite hehe


btw- Gasol would not have been an star this year. even Brand got shut out this year and that's with an extra spot opened with Boozers injury

[Andrew]

now i think it's safe to say the Bulls are past the dark ages period. does that mean we still need skiles? at this point i think so.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think Skiles should be booted out the door tomorrow and unless someone else comes along whose approach and coaching abilities could take the team to the next level the job should belong to Skiles, no question. Having said that, I do sometimes wonder how far they can go with Skiles calling the shots. Is it feasible to suggest that Skiles, with the right roster, can contend for or even win a championship? If so then it comes down to making the right moves and building a team capable of winning it all. If not, then at some point someone more suitable will need to take over.

also i believe not only were these players not "skiles" type of players, i think these guys weren't "Paxson" type of players either. i think you got that mixed up, Andrew hehe. as much trust as Pax has in skiles, Pax is the GM.

I guess I did shift too much responsibility on Skiles there.

back to skiles- he's still a hardass but he's great at coming up with schemes on both offense & defense, plus it seems he's gotten over not sitting his favorites when they are playing poor.

i think at this point it's time to start focusing more of the blame on the players when the team loses. all their key players are experienced now so it's time they take on some responsibility. Skiles still does time to time have a funky rotation though you have to think it's not Skiles fault when the team seems like it's sleepwalking for certain stretches

Definitely, and it's great to see he's gotten over that...for the most part. I still think he has a tendency to ride certain lineups too long. The Kings game before the break was a good example of that, when they caught up by the end of the third quarter but instead of bringing the starters back, he left the same unit on the floor and let them stink it up for the first three and a half minutes before making a change, by which point the Kings had run up a double digit lead again. What you said is true though, the players are young but they aren't completely inexperienced so they have to accept blame too when they lose.

Supposedly the Gasol talks have stalled over the last couple of days since Jerry West is standing firm on his demand for two of the core players. As you noted the Bulls can't pay all four of those players so someone will be moving on but (and I know I'm starting to sound like a broken record) since I'm not sold on the idea of Gasol being a player worthy of breaking up a team with a winning record to acquire, I'd rather they hold onto their core players and make a smaller deal involving someone like PJ Brown (though he's played well of late too). Also, as far as extensions are concerned, didn't Gordon and Hinrich agree to extensions this offseason just past, very close to the start of the season?

Aussie Bulls fans with Foxtel: Just a reminder that the Wizards game will be shown this Saturday on ESPN, coverage begins at 11:30 AM AEST.

[TheBigEasy]

In a nutshell, it would be worth the risk of acquiring Davis (who admittedly hasn't caused any problems of note in Minnesota) to get KG. However, it's not a feasible trade since it doesn't work under the salary cap and it's highly unlikely the Timberwolves would go for it even it did.

But on the other hand ... why shouldn't the Wolves do it? I mean ... even if they are winning some games right now, they are absolutely going nowhere. KG is one heck of a player ... but he is 30 already and has a huge contract. They won't be able to surround him with enough help to make a run. Not this year, not next year. Dallas, Phoenix and San Antonio ... there is no way the Wolves will be able to get past them. Utah and Houston are emerging too, the Lakers are not far away from being a real threat in the West, as is Denver (if they get the AI/Melo combo to work). And last but not least ... the Hornets just need a healthy team for a season and they are right up there. Well ... thats all the playoff spots covered. And an 8th place is worthless for KG and the Wolves ... they won't make it past the first round.

So for the live of me I can't figure out, why Minny doesn't blow this team up and trade KG? If you make the aforementioned trade of Deng, Nocioni, Thomas and Duhon for KG and Davis they'd have (togehter with Randy Foye ... and not factoring in the cap situation) a nice young nucleus on which they could build to make a run in the upcoming years.

Chicago would be pretty much a lock to win the east after that trade .

As for Gasol ... I'd have loved for him to go to Chicago, you'd (at least IMHO) go far in the playoffs with him, even if you give up two of your core players. Even the rumored Abdur-Rahim trade would have been great for you guys.

yes there are former players who are succeeding with other teams
-JR Smith did have a hot streak but he since got suspended and now has lost his starting spot to Steve Blake of all players
-Curry has been playing at a near all star level but you couldn't give that huge contract to somenone who was diagnosed with a possible fatal heart condition, let alone someone that had to be called on the phone by his personnal trainer almost every day during the offseason to make sure he would wakeup for his workouts
-Chandler's having a breakout season but he couldn't burden the role of being the tagged the franchise 'savior' (even though year after year since his rookie year they brought in better players then him) or living up to the fat contract year he signed (and he had work ethic questions too)
-tim thomas is back to being the same player as he was before he came to the bulls- inconsistent. though i should mention he did have a nice playoff run last year- especially against the lakers
-lol what are jalen rose and eddie robinson up to. did i miss anyone else?

JR Smith wouldn't have worked out with the bulls. He was traded for a reason from us ... his attitude and work ethic. Besides, you have Nocioni, Gordon, Hinrich and Deng all having great seasons. He wouldn't have got the playing time to pull off the same run he did in Denver. There are just too many players coming before him. And even now he has hit a wall in Denver ... so don't sweat it too much that you lost him.

I can't comment very much on Curry as I am not following him that closely ... but of course I read, that he plays great in NY.

As for Chandler ... well, I love how he is playing for us of course, but I doubt he would have broken out were he still in Chicago. I guess, he really just needed a change of scenery. Besides ... you got PJ's expiring contract for him, which is worth something, even if you didn't use it right now. But that might enable you to sign your core players to extensions or trade for someone else. So I wouldn't sweat that either .

Tim Thomas had attitude problems, right? didn't the team tell him to stay away before they bought him out? Besides .. after that playoff run, Phoenix didn't resign him and now he is where again? Does he even play anymore?

Sure you could say maybe you should have kept at least some of 'em ... but you never know how that would have worked out. I doubt it would have worked out.

[maes]

Hmm, the main issue for me is that Memphis wanted 2 young starters for Gasol, that means we could have shipped Chandler + 1 person for Gasol, which would have been the equivalent now of shipping PJ + 1 person for Gasol, which is what we're offering now.

And Phoenix tried hard to resign Tim Thomas but was outbid by the Clippers, and he's playing very well for them. He actually started 18 games this year, and is shooting 36% from 3 point. He's a great 10 & 5 guy to bring off the bench and stretch out defenses. I wish Tyrus Thomas or Malik Allen could come close to that as a bench player.

Eventually you can't just fire every guy that doesn't get along with Skiles. I'll ask this...would Jordan have gotten along with Skiles? Hell no.