Have you or anybody you know been healed by God? Physically?

I don't believe that it's possible to be truly happy without love of the God (that TYPE) in your life. (not talking about a professing faith)

It fills a part of us that's desperately thirsty for love + meaning (for God). All people in the world, from Americans to Pygmies, have this same need/void. Pascal (a scientist!- a Pascal is a unit of pressure, actually) put it: "There is a God-shaped vacuum in the heart of every man, which cannot be fulfilled by any created thing, but only by the Creator, made known by His Son, Jesus Christ." and then don't leave out my favorite line ever, "God is Love."

Nick feels content inside. It doesn't matter what you think about contentment. He says he feels content, and you have to take him at that. Try to argue it, and you just come across as another annoying bible beater.

Carmo wrote:

Nick wrote:
As for the topic, i don't have a strong opinion on christianity, but the whole idea of there being a "god" seems a bit farfetched to me, so i choose not to believe.

I don't have anything against people who do believe, and do not judge. However, there is a difference between people who have made the choice to believe and be content about it, and people who have made the choice to believe and preach it to everyone. I can't stand the people who preach. You will lose my respect forever if you try and tell me that i should be christian because blah blah blah. Or that god has midguided me. Or that i'm going to hell. I find it belitteling, inhumane and contradictory to their own beliefs. If i wanted to be christian, wouldn't i have made that decision for myself? That is the bad side of christianity.

I don't think you will find an actual Christian who will tell you that God has misguided you.

Well, you're wrong.

A "Christian" might tell you that because they don't know what they are talking about. But a real Christian would not. Why would God misguide someone?

Carmo wrote:

Quote:

I think that it's not so literal and there's room for atheists, agnostics, and any faith to get to Heaven, because only God knows their situations, what family & mind & body etc. they were born with, and only he can know their hearts, and thus judge them. I really don't believe it's going to be black-and-white along the lines of "did you confess that you believed in Jesus at the end of your life? or not?"

If that is the case then I reckon that there is basically no point in anything....
Could you elaborate on that, Carmo? What do you mean?

I mean't that there wouldn't be any point in trying to even be a good person if just anyone could get to Heaven.

I also believe that accepting/knowing Jesus (and thus Himself) is the will of God for all people- however, I don't believe that it is the measuring stick for their judgement. God would like it to happen, but just because it doesn't happen during a certain individual's lifetime, that doesn't mean that they deserve eternal punishment (a.k.a. eternal separation from God), or that they want it! Having an automatic system where it's: know God--> go to Heaven & don't know God--> go to Hell doesn't take into consideration the nature of God- that He's all-knowing, He's just & good, & that he's got that amazing Grace.

I believe that someone you hasn't even acknowledged God but is still a "good person" has no chance in going to Heaven. I know that God is just and good and has amazing grace, but what is the point if He isn't acknowledged as that?

Also, note what God says in this passage to these people: "I never knew you." (!!!) So "knowing God" is obviously very important, but what really does that mean? It's my opinion that those who want to know God, will ("Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you"). But it might not happen in this lifetime! They could die first, before they got to experience a true faith.

But there is no other lifetime unless you know God and accept Him as Lord and Saviour. So I don't fully get your point there.

And if you think about it, isn't this how it is for everybody? Who really gets to truly know God before their earthly lives are over? Even for the most faithful/loving/etc. in God's eyes, aren't they still on their own journeys to get to know God better? Aren't people's relationships with God always evolving/improving (hopefully!) So how can we humans judge how far a person is on that journey? What if they had it in them all along to be an incredible person of faith & love, but they died before they even acknowledged God with their mouths and in their testimonies to others??? Can/should these people be scorned? No way! We don't & can't know their spirits and their hearts. Babies who die, mentally disabled people, those who have never heard of Jesus, those who are perverted from their youths, etc. are all possible candidates for not "knowing" Jesus but perhaps being incredible beings of light when they pass on. So yes, those who seek shall find, but there is no guarantee that it will happen in this form, with this body, in this life.

The only person who can really know how tight they are with God is yourself. When you are close to God you can feel it and everything feels so good. That doesn't mean it is easy, but you know you are doing what is right and it feels great.
I agree that it is a totally different story for babies who have died and mentally disabled people because they honestly can't exactly think striaght for themselves (not sure if I put that correctly) but God has given everyone the choice and if they don't make a good choice then it is their fault. He has given us free will and we should all use it wisely because in the end eveyone wants to be happy and there is really only one way to truly be happy.

I just think that it's crucial for Christians and all people to remember that God is bigger than the Bible, and we are limited in our capacity to know (and thus to judge) others, and thus can and should not do it. What we're commanded to do is LOVE them- that's it. As you said, accepting/knowing/having a realationship with Him is God's will for people, but remember who Jesus/God is: "God is Love." IMO, you can help a person know Jesus without ever mentioning His name! And you can KNOW JESUS without ever hearing about him. Whoa! It's not about claiming a name, but about knowing a Person, who happens to be called Love in his book.

The fact is though that God gave us the bible as a "guide to life" and it tells us how to live life to its maximum potential. I don't believe that, as Christians, we judge others. If we tell someone they are doing something wrong or whatever, that is showing them love because we want the best for them. I strongly agree with you that just showing people love is sometimes the only "Jesus" they get in their life and that is extremely important, because everybody is different and not everybody responds in the same way. However, I don't believe that you can know Jesus without hearing about Him. If you show people love, they will notice that you are different and will start asking questions and that is how they start to get to "know" Jesus.

lol, I think that is the longest post I have written. I hope I am getting across what I'm trying to say, I'm not the greatest with words and it is late and I am tired. I look forward to your reply though!

I believe that someone you hasn't even acknowledged God but is still a "good person" has no chance in going to Heaven. I know that God is just and good and has amazing grace, but what is the point if He isn't acknowledged as that?

I just think that there are people who, for one reason or another, don't have the capability or opportunity to do that (acknowledge God with their words), but God won't punish them for that, because that wouldn't be fair. In some ways, knowing about God early on and easily accepting him only gives you more responsibility, because it's like a gift. For some people, faith is the hardest thing in the world or just plain doesn't make any sense. If you notice, there's some relativism in God's commands for us. Like look at the 2 big commandments that Jesus gave: he didn't say "Love God THIS (a certain amount which you have to reach) much," but "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind" (Matt. 22:37). Notice how it's "with all your heart + mind + soul." Each person is going to be different, since they have different hearts, minds, and souls. They should just do as best as they can, basically. Which isn't a cop-out or anything: when you think about it, isn't it equally hard for everybody to do their best?
And also, the second great commandment from Jesus has relativism: "'Love your neighbor as yourself." The key is "AS YOURSELF." Not a certain, set amount of love, but relative per person- we should all just do our best, I suppose...and that's what is expected of us. If we have the capacity & opportunity to accept Jesus, then we should...This is how I view things right now, at least.

The only person who can really know how tight they are with God is yourself.

I whole-heartedly agree! That's very important.

The fact is though that God gave us the bible as a "guide to life" and it tells us how to live life to its maximum potential.

And we should if we can! And once again only we can know that...

I don't believe that, as Christians, we judge others. If we tell someone they are doing something wrong or whatever, that is showing them love because we want the best for them.

Absolutely. Jesus criticized others often. Christianity as the Religion of Niceness is not Christianity at all, just like love as being nice to a person all the time is not true love, either. Unfortunately, we all sometimes need a kick in the pants to get back on the right track

I strongly agree with you that just showing people love is sometimes the only "Jesus" they get in their life and that is extremely important, because everybody is different and not everybody responds in the same way. However, I don't believe that you can know Jesus without hearing about Him. If you show people love, they will notice that you are different and will start asking questions and that is how they start to get to "know" Jesus.

Because in a way, Jesus IS that Godly, agape love inside you that you're expressing, I think! As far as knowing Jesus without ever hearing about Him, I guess if you're talking about the historical person Jesus then of course, that's true. But, then again, I've heard (don't know if this is true but I think it is) of people like natives & of different faiths having visions & dreams of Jesus...so I think the big, overarching lesson to take is that we can't box in God...He never ceases to amaze or surprise

Nick feels content inside. It doesn't matter what you think about contentment. He says he feels content, and you have to take him at that. Try to argue it, and you just come across as another annoying bible beater.

Yeah, truthfully nobody can say if Nick's content inside or not, except him. I'm not trying to say one way or another about him, I don't even know him, and didn't mean for it to come across that way. I'm just stating my thoughts and beliefs about humans in general.

I don't believe that it's possible to be truly happy without love of the God (that TYPE) in your life. (not talking about a professing faith)

You're entitlted to your opinion, and i respect it. But just quietly, i think that is a load of ignoramus laughable christianity bullshit. And even a little bit offensive. Who are you to say what makes people happy and what doesn't? Are you saying i won't be as happy as i could be without god?

I think you should be rephrasing a statement like that to "I don't believe that it's possible for me to be truly happy without love of the god in my life". Because what it comes down to is the personality of the individual, not everybody altogether. Some people just don't have dependant personality traits. Some people don't need to have faith in a god. You can't make such a general statement and say that nobody will be truly happy without god. It's ridiculous.

Like Axel said, i am content inside without a god. I am happy without a god. I could go as far as saying that my life is almost perfect right now and wow, look at that, without a god. And there are a lot of people in this world right now in the same boat as me.

Bah, that statement really frustrated me.

I didn't say that people necessarily needed to have a faith in God- I said that they needed LOVE of the type that God gives, which connects back to God anyway because the Bible says that "God is Love."

Do you think that people can be happy without some wholesome, true love in their lives?

EDIT: I was thinking today that just love in your life may not be enough to be happy, as humans also need a sense of purpose in their lives to get up in the morning...

so...

I'm going to have to say that I'm sorry, Nick, and you're right- I can and thus should only speak for myself. Because I realize I really don't know what I'm talking about here- or, I do but I just don't know the answers!!!

So here's me [finally] just speaking for myself:

With all the things that I've been through in my life, I'd be lost without the love and guidance of my foundation, Jesus Christ.


i just wish everyone could feel the way that I do- that's why I talk about this kind of stuff...God is real and our lives are not a waste, and everything's gonna be alright someday.

Nice. Well i am happy for you and how "god" has gotten you through stuff. To each their own. Personally, i've been through a lot of stuff too. It has built my character to this day and i did it all without believing in fairy tales. I.e. God.

Because I realize I really don't know what I'm talking about here- or, I do but I just don't know the answers!!!

Here's mine...

Do you think that people can be happy without some wholesome, true love in their lives?

Well, it depends on the person, but i'd say most people are happier with true love in their lives. Members of the opposite sex usually provide this.

Don't need god.

as humans also need a sense of purpose in their lives to get up in the morning...

Jeez, could you imagine waking up every morning knowing you've deticated your entire existance to some fictional character? How's that for purpose?! How about a career? How about some friends and a good time? How about a great girlfriend? How about studying something you enjoy? How about creating things to share with the world? How about a family?

Don't need god.

I have no problem with you or your beliefs, bullsfan. But i can tell you in all honesty that i am a happy person. I have all the purpose i could possibly need. All without a god. And you could do it too.

Don't need god.

It's interesting that God has gotten you through so much, you feel. It was when my life started to take harsh turns that God and I diverged. I've gotten through the last three years of trials and tribulations through mental and physical toughness, growing further and further from God in the process.

To each their own.

I haven't read throught this whole topic but I think I have something important to say.

I think the whole thing with "God" is that people who believe or don't believe think of "Him" as some magical human being that watches us from above. Well, if you think that way, its obviously a load of bull shit. I won't place a "God" tag on it but I believe in a greater power that lies in the people around us. Instead of the phrase "God is love", I thin of "love is God". So maybe what Nick was talking about, that finding happiness in life with those around us, is the real "God".

I haven't read throught this whole topic but I think I have something important to say.

I think the whole thing with "God" is that people who believe or don't believe think of "Him" as some magical human being that watches us from above. Well, if you think that way, its obviously a load of bull shit. I won't place a "God" tag on it but I believe in a greater power that lies in the people around us. Instead of the phrase "God is love", I thin of "love is God". So maybe what Nick was talking about, that finding happiness in life with those around us, is the real "God".

I've already stated my opinion so it's not my current beliefs that are being tested, but I'm curious as to why it's 'obviously a load of bull shit'?

I'm saying that (imo of course) it's a load of bs that God is some being that controls (or allows) what happens in the world. That's why I rarely pray and when I do, it feels weird. I don't know what I'm talking about really, I'm just trying to express my feelings on the topic.

Just curious Nick (anyone else can answer this too I guess), might be a bit off topic, how do you think the world came about?

Duh, clearly a magical man named god created everything in existance. He designed the human body one day. He thought "putting a rod-like object inside holes is a GREAT way to reproduce", and dinosaurs and all natural resources are also his idea.

In other words, i don't have a clue, and neither do you or anyone else. Anybody who thinks they know, doesn't, as it is a theory and can't be proved.

No joke.. A guy at my work claims Jesus and Mary talk to him... that he can actually hear their voices..

Duh, clearly a magical man named god created everything in existance. He designed the human body one day. He thought "putting a rod-like object inside holes is a GREAT way to reproduce", and dinosaurs and all natural resources are also his idea.

Good to see you're extremely mature about the question.

In other words, i don't have a clue, and neither do you or anyone else. Anybody who thinks they know, doesn't, as it is a theory and can't be proved.

So you're ok with telling me what I don't know about but it's not ok when anyone tells you that you can't truly be happy without God? That seems fair...

It's interesting that God has gotten you through so much, you feel. It was when my life started to take harsh turns that God and I diverged. I've gotten through the last three years of trials and tribulations through mental and physical toughness, growing further and further from God in the process.

hmmm I would think that it would be the opposite- when things are smooth sailing it seems like you need God a lot less, but it's when things get tough that you need a [healthy] foundation to support you, which for me has been God.

I haven't read throught this whole topic but I think I have something important to say.

I think the whole thing with "God" is that people who believe or don't believe think of "Him" as some magical human being that watches us from above. Well, if you think that way, its obviously a load of bull shit.

I don't know exactly how to think of God, physically, but I believe that He is directly involved with our daily lives on some level, and isn't distant and just "watching from above."

I won't place a "God" tag on it but I believe in a greater power that lies in the people around us. Instead of the phrase "God is love", I thin of "love is God". So maybe what Nick was talking about, that finding happiness in life with those around us, is the real "God".

Yeah, once again I'm not sure there. But what you said is straight from a song: John Reuben's (a Messanic Jewish rapper) "God is Love." The chorus is: "God is Love and / Love is God / No one's below / No one's above"

No joke.. A guy at my work claims Jesus and Mary talk to him... that he can actually hear their voices..

Well only that person can say for sure obviously but it's a possibility in my mind...

I'm saying that (imo of course) it's a load of bs that God is some being that controls (or allows) what happens in the world. That's why I rarely pray and when I do, it feels weird. I don't know what I'm talking about really, I'm just trying to express my feelings on the topic.

That's because, I think, you don't believe that you're being heard or that anything you pray about/for is going to be changed in any way...that's definitely going to make your prayers seem weird & useless. You have to believe that things God can affect, in some way unbenownst to me, change for the better. But even if that's hard, you have to start somewhere, so even just expressing your feelings and believing that you're being heard and that God cares is a great start.

How's that for purpose?! How about a career? How about some friends and a good time? How about a great girlfriend? How about studying something you enjoy? How about creating things to share with the world? How about a family?

We're not to going to agree here because we're at odds on the basic question if God exists. So me, believing in God, obviously nothing in this life has anything on God, not even family. They can't know you like God can, nobody can, not even your wife. God is obviously special, you know, it's God!

Jeez, could you imagine waking up every morning knowing you've deticated your entire existance to some fictional character?

Once again, I don't believe that God is fictional. I don't believe that God's existence can be proved one way or the other, and I think it was designed to be that way, because it's supposed to be a question of individual faith, but there are things in this world that HAVE to make you wonder- like Near Death Experiences. Have you ever read any of those??? Unbelievable (not literally, for me ) stuff. Also, I know many people who really believe that God is with them or has miraculously appeared to them, etc. In fact, my own mother on her death bed, when she was full of tubes and zapped of strength, got up and out of the hospital bed twice, claiming that she was seeing Jesus Christ. The roots of my faith come out of stuff like that, and my Dad's incredible life story & what God has done for him- things coming together that are just downright incredible. But I'd say it's been about 5 years now when God has really become not just someone I believe in, acknowledging the existence of, but someone I'm really relying on and finding joy in. He's become real to me.

Duh, clearly a magical man named god created everything in existance. He designed the human body one day. He thought "putting a rod-like object inside holes is a GREAT way to reproduce", and dinosaurs and all natural resources are also his idea.

In other words, i don't have a clue, and neither do you or anyone else. Anybody who thinks they know, doesn't, as it is a theory and can't be proved.

This looks like a dodge tactic to me. Maybe it's not, but that's how it's reading on this end. The question was, what do you think? Now, if you've never thought that deeply about the question, just say so. It's silly to reply with something of the ilk, "I have no idea and neither do you." because thought like that get us no where in this world, and eliminate any chance at advancing the thought process. I'll admit that I've never really considered the question, so I can't provide any real answer, meaning that anybody who actually has formulated a concrete opinion on the matter trumps both yours and my opinions, Nick.

No joke.. A guy at my work claims Jesus and Mary talk to him... that he can actually hear their voices..

Your co-worker likely needs therapy.

I think god made a bet with another god and lost, and so we have Earth. We don't know what the bet was about, but if you find out, you will know the meaning of life.

If your friend can hear voices, he needs to read a book on paranoia and schizophrenia.

One thing I never understood about why people think Jesus was so great.

He died to save us all? Okay... great. But... is that really something to be all that highly commended for above all others? "Die, and you will save the souls of all people for all eternity"... um... anybody with half a heart would kinda have to say yes. I think someone who takes a bullet for someone else, just to save ONE life, is more commendable.

Oh, by the way.... 42

One thing I never understood about why people think Jesus was so great.

He died to save us all? Okay... great. But... is that really something to be all that highly commended for above all others? "Die, and you will save the souls of all people for all eternity"... um... anybody with half a heart would kinda have to say yes. I think someone who takes a bullet for someone else, just to save ONE life, is more commendable.

But that was Jesus' purpose for His whole life on Earth. He knew His whole life that He was going to suffer a painful death to bridge the gap between us and God.

Oh, by the way.... 42

Been watching The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy?

Oh, by the way.... 42

Been watching The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy?

Watching? Hmpf. The movie version blew chunks. The books win.

Donatello- if you read the Book of John in the Bible you'll know why so many people think so highly of Jesus...but to me the biggest things are:

1. Jesus was God and lived the type of life that he did- poverty, persecution, and execution- that alone is pretty mind-blowing
2. Jesus was completely innocent yet died voluntarily
3. Jesus was really scared before his crucifixion
4. Jesus was hurt physically- badly, really really really badly
5. Jesus was hurt spiritually- even worse than physically. God (the Father) let him die, and temporarily forsook him and let evil have its way, I guess. Jesus cried out on the cross "Father, why have you forsaken me?"
6. Also on the cross Jesus said to all those who had done everything to him and were mocking him, saying "You say you are the Son of God, and you can heal others, but you can't help yourself!!!"...to everybody who wronged him he said: "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do."
7. The conversation on the cross with two thieves who were also crucified by the Romans that day and were hanging next to him.
8. Not to mention Jesus's entire life, his interactions with people, disciples, and his teachings too!

Last edited by bullsfan009 on Wed Jan 24, 2007 11:57 am, edited 2 times in total.

What is mind-blowing is that people believe there's a magical man in the sky.

He's not in the sky, he's in the loving hearts of his true believers all over the world...and he's there for everybody else too

of course i must add...imo!