Chicago Bulls Thread

[-BHZMAFIA-]

If the Bulls were to do Gordon, Deng, Brown and NY 1st for Pau and Cardinal, how would you fans feel about that? I really like the deal for the Grizzlies because it gives us two lottery picks in a deep draft along with more young players who can play. Then they have EJ and PJ's contracts coming off the books which means they are bound to sign some type of good free agent. If Memphis were to get the no.1 pick, picking up Oden and then picking up someone like Thornton with the Knicks pick and signing a player like Carter or Mo Williams in the off-season would make them look really good.

[---]

If I was Chicago, I wouldn't even think of that trade.

First off, Gordon is an amazing offensive player, and no other team in the league has a player that comes off the bench and is a serious threat to go for 30+ every night. Ben Gordon is one of the best scorers in the game, and while being inconsistent, remember it is just his third year and constancy comes with experience. If he was to become a consistent 25 ppg scorer, I think they would have no choice but to start him and play him 35+ minutes a game.

Secondly, Luol Deng is wildly underrated. He has the ability to be close to a 20/10 guy as a small forward. Currently he's a 17 and 7 guy, adding a steal every night and less than 2 turnovers. He's also extremely versatile, is capable of playing the 2, 3 and the 4. He's one of those guys that aren't extremely good at one thing, but good at everything - a Caron Butler type, just not as good of a passer. He also shoots 53% from the field.

Thirdly, that pick in this years draft is going to be very valuable. This draft is much stronger than '06 and loaded with talent and potential. Right now the Bulls are looking at a mid-late lottery pick, which is good enough to get you a guy like Jeff Green (Odom-esque) , Thaddeus Young if he slips a few places, a great defender like Corey brewer who can also score, or a scoring machine like Marcus Williams of Arizona. They all (along with Al Thornton as Mafia mentioned) can turn out to be very good players. Hell, you could grab Tyler Hansbrough at the 11 spot if you wanted.

Finally, Gasol is good. But I don't believe he is worth all of this. I know the Bulls have very little offence from their post guys but they should keep that pick and see what they can get. Hansbrough could develop into a pretty good PF down the road, theres no doubts he can score. Josh McRoberts would be available where they would pick if the draft was today. Some great players could slip if teams want to gamble on high potential players (eg. Hasheem Thabeet over Julian Wright).

I really wouldn't want to see this trade go down, all for Gasol. The best 6th man in the league, Caron Butler lite, and a potentially great player in this big time draft for a 20/10 power forward (who is currently averaging 19/7, essentially Dengs' numbers) just isn't worth it.

[super_man322000]

good argument!

[-BHZMAFIA-]

I wouldn't do it if I was Chicago either mainly because of the same reasons Flite said. It's amazing how some of the Grizz fans are saying Deng and Gordon aren't worth Pau. I would even do the deal if the Knicks pick wasn't involved. I mean its hard to turn down 2 great young players with small contracts for a 1-year out of 5 all-star player. I don't think Pau can really lead a team on his own which is why I think Memphis needs to deal him unless they get some type of star in the off-season to play alongside with him. He would do good with someone like Big Ben beside him though which is why its kind of a good deal for the Bulls.

The Grizzlies would end up being a very deep team if they play their cards right. If they ended up just trading Pau, Cardinal and maybe Warrick in the deal for Gordon, Deng, Brown and the Knicks first, they would have: Lowry, Gordon, Deng, Gay, Miller, Dahntay Jones, Johnson, Roberts and thats with Chucky and Stoudamire out. Then they use the two draft picks and pick up maybe Oden and Thornton and more than likely they will have alot of money from Brown and Jones contract and could sign someone like a Vince Carter, Chauncey Billups or Mike Bibby. I would prefer Billups or Bibby, then the team would take a complete turn.

PG - Bibby, Lowry
SG - Miller, Gordon
SF - Deng, Gay
PF - Johnson, Roberts, Thornton
C - Oden, (another FA pickup)

And just think if they do end up keeping Warrick.

[Andrew]

If the Bulls were to do Gordon, Deng, Brown and NY 1st for Pau and Cardinal, how would you fans feel about that?

Disgusted. It would be a fine deal for Memphis to make but I don't see any reason for the Bulls to do it. Gasol is a good player and all but I wouldn't want to see the Bulls give up Gordon or Deng for him and especially not both of them. Gasol fits the bill of being a big man who can score but he's not going to make up for the loss of Deng and Gordon on the perimeter and the 39 ppg they currently combine for.

I've read that even though there's been some preliminary talks about a swap, which is to be expected when a player of Gasol's calibre is supposedly on the market, Paxson isn't interested in dealing Gordon and Deng and wouldn't be even if Skiles was pushing for it (which he's apparently not). What's reported and what eventually goes down isn't always one and the same though I don't think Paxson is too inclined to pull the trigger on such a deal just yet.

Since the Bulls can't really put together any other packages that the Grizzlies would be interested in - Brown, Duhon and the Knicks' pick would work under the cap but I doubt West would even entertain the thought of accepting such a deal - I'm guessing they'll lose out on the Gasol sweepstakes assuming he's done in Memphis.

[maes]

Well the latest rumor is Gordon + PJ + 1st rounder for Gasol, does not include Deng.
Here's why i think this trade rumor may be semi-serious.

Salary Cap - Bulls cannot resign all 3: Gordon, Deng, and Nocioni.
2007:
Wallace: $15.5 M
Hinrich: $11.0 M
Gordon: $13.0 M (reference: Redd, Johnson, Hughes)
Deng: $9.0 M (reference: Diaw, Josh Howard)
Nocioni: $7.0 M (reference: Walker, Butler, Posey)

That's $55.5 million for just 5 players, automatically going over salary cap. That means there will be no major addition, Gordon will be our franchise player for career. There will be no additional high caliber big man to take over Wallace and make up for undersized Tyrus. The best big man the Bulls can add is maybe a Jake Voskul type for league minimum.

Gasol gives the bulls consistent post scoring, the ability to draw fouls, rebounding, blocks, assists, and height. Last year he averaged 20 ppg 9 rpg 5 apg. Even if he never improves, those #s are worthwhile for a big man in this league.

Every other time there's been a Gordon rumor, such as the one for Paul Pierce, Paxson has made a statement to the media squashing it. He has not done so on this trade, and instead made statements like this:

"I have to keep the long-term perspective in mind as well. I'm not going to do anything financially that inhibits us going forward. And we have some contracts coming up. So I have to be smart there"

"They have more value today than when the season started," Paxson said. "Everybody in this league would love to have Lu Deng and Ben Gordon. I'm glad we have them"

[CMJ3]

Gordon + PJ + 1st Rounder would be a good trade for Gasol seeing as the Bulls have some other great young players in Thabo and Thomas who will be good in the not too distant future.

[IndianaPacersMan]

Ahhh....

the Bulls....

Lots of talent on that team...

Gordon, Hinrich, and Wallace.

With Tyrus and Deng....

They are a talented team...

[Dan's Brain]

PG - Bibby, Lowry
SG - Miller, Gordon
SF - Deng, Gay
PF - Johnson, Roberts, Thornton
C - Oden, (another FA pickup)

And on the other side of the equation, the Bulls are left with

PG - Hinrich, Barrett
SG - Duhon, Thabo, Griffin
SF - Nocioni, Tyrus, Khryapa
PF - Gasol, Sweetney
C - Wallace, Allen

with no draft improvement readily available.

Like Andrew said, the Bulls won't be making a deal that doesnt include Duhon. And you could also put Sweetney in that.

This team doesnt need to be dismantled yet.

EDIT: On the other hand, he can come over if he keeps it up with the triple doubles against Utah...

[maes]

Latest rumors are that Memphis is asking for 2 of the Bulls young stars to counter the Bulls offer of 1.

I doubt they'll take that, unless it's for one of the rookies.

[Dan's Brain]

The Bulls' Australian televised record improves to 3-0 with a win over the mavs.

Luol Deng and Ben Gordon were both superb. And so was PJ Brown for that matter. I dont want this trade to happen at all.

[beau_boy04]

If the Bulls were to do Gordon, Deng, Brown and NY 1st for Pau and Cardinal, how would you fans feel about that? I really like the deal for the Grizzlies because it gives us two lottery picks in a deep draft along with more young players who can play. Then they have EJ and PJ's contracts coming off the books which means they are bound to sign some type of good free agent. If Memphis were to get the no.1 pick, picking up Oden and then picking up someone like Thornton with the Knicks pick and signing a player like Carter or Mo Williams in the off-season would make them look really good.

I wouldn't do it either. I would not even give out Deng and Gordon for Keving Garnett. I think The Bulls have all the pieces to be a championsip contender. They just need to mature and come together. Another year and if they land a top 5 pick next draft will suffice a top 3 team in the Nba.

Mark my word!

[Matt]

why wouldn't you want KG for Deng & Gordon? KG is, individually,the best PF in the game.

[Andrew]

Salary Cap - Bulls cannot resign all 3: Gordon, Deng, and Nocioni.

I was under the impression that they'd already signed extensions. I'm certain that Gordon at least signed one (or agreed to one) this past offseason.

I'll be extremely disappointed if Gordon is traded. It's true that the Bulls need more of a presence in the frontcourt in the form of a low post scorer, but if you deal away Gordon for Gasol you've lost a player who's averaging 21 ppg from the perimeter. You've got your inside player but you've lost a player who can keep the defense honest on the perimeter.

I just don't see Gasol as a player to break up the team to acquire. I'd be more comfortable if it was KG coming the other way or if Deng was the player involved. I like Deng and all but if the Bulls are set on trading for Gasol I'd rather seem them trade Deng since that would allow them to fulfil a need in the frontcourt without it coming at the expense of the backcourt.

[beau_boy04]

Damn the NY are doing pretty ok lately which is not good news for the Bulls... they beat Miami today 116-96 and crawford scored 52 points

[Andrew]

Well, it's unfortunate but it's not the end of the world.

Also, for what it's worth, Skiles has denied the Gordon rumours.

Bulls coach Scott Skiles denied a published report the Bulls already had offered Ben Gordon to the Grizzlies as part of the Pau Gasol talks. Gordon is handling the situation professionally.

"I definitely understand Pax's job is always to look to upgrade the team," he said. "I understand the business. I just want to play. Whatever happens, I'm still going to be in the NBA."

Source

Finally, another heads up for my fellow Aussie Bulls fans with Foxtel. The on-screen guide shows Pistons/Bucks next Saturday as does the February magazine but ESPN's online guide for ESPN Australia is reporting Bulls/Sonics so we'll have to wait and see. The game against the Wizards is still scheduled to be shown on February 24th.

[Andrew]

An update on the trade rumours: Grizzlies asking price too high for Bulls trade

The Memphis Grizzlies are asking the Chicago Bulls for at least two of three players – Luol Deng, Ben Gordon, and Kirk Hinrich – in a trade scenario for center Pau Gasol. Unless that changes, the Bulls won't go through with the deal.

Another win over the Heat today with a fine performance by Gordon and Hinrich. Obviously that doesn't change the fact their reliance on jumpshooting and lack of a low post scorer isn't a weakness but considering their record and the way Gordon, Deng and Hinrich have been playing, I'd much rather see them pursue someone like Shareef who would most likely be available without having to give up any one of those three. I think at this point they should look to add to what they've got rather than rolling the dice and breaking up a unit that's not exactly struggling.

There's a tough stretch coming up with seven straight road games, not the best news considering they're 6-13 away from the UC this year but a couple of those games are against teams that are struggling or at least treading water, so perhaps they can weather it and win at least three or four out of the seven.

[Matt]

hahah, Grizzlies want 3 players, ah man.

Go Pistons vs Bucks!!!!

[Andrew]

Better yet, they could show the entire double header.

[Dan's Brain]

Wonder why Nocioni isnt coming up in any rumours, he's gotta have a lot of value as well.

Good win again by Chicago, 3-zip against the NBA champs. Good results.

[Andrew]

I'd say it's simply because Gordon, Deng and Hinrich are simply of more interest. Gordon's proving to be an explosive scorer this season, Deng is having a fine year and looks like he could be quite a special player and Hinrich remains one of the Bulls' top players and one of the better point guards in the league. Therefore, they're more attractive to a team considering trading away its star player even though Nocioni's numbers are hardly terrible and he's a key player for the Bulls as well.

[maes]

Noc is still mainly considered a defensive specialist who can knock down a catch & shoot 3, very Bruce Bowen. Most teams aren't interested in that for starting their core, they like to fill guys like that in when they're already a playoff team.

[Andrew]

It took them almost a week but Foxtel's website and on-screen guide have been updated to confirm that the Bulls/Sonics game will indeed be shown at 2:30 PM this Saturday. Two Bulls games in two weeks (and another coming up February 24th) on Foxtel...that has to be a record in the post championship era.

[Andrew]

Well, they're now 1-1 on this seven game road trip with yesterday's win over Seattle. I was hoping Gordon would see more time in the fourth as it's somewhat unorthadox to sit a guy who's scoring 21 ppg even when he's been having a tough time from the field but the unit that was on the floor got the job done. Deng and Hinrich in particular came through and had the play of the night on that blind tap back to Luol for the dunk.

Apparently Pax is using this road trip to gauge whether he should relent on giving up two of the top players for Gasol. Personally, I hope he decides not to go that way. I'm not convinced that Gasol is worth breaking up a team that has been winning despite its lack of a scoring presence in the post. I'd still rather they pursue someone like Shareef who has proven he can get the job done in the paint but has a lower price tag and doesn't need to be the centrepiece of the team.

Watching the game yesterday I couldn't help thinking Chris Wilcox would be a fine addition but I'd say the Sonics' asking price - assuming they are at all open to trading him - would be too high, while any package the Bulls would be looking to offer wouldn't be good enough.

Foxtel update: Can you believe it? Fox Sports 3 will be showing the Bulls/Kings game next Friday, starting at 2:30 PM. Three Bulls games in three weeks, followed by the full All-Star Weekend and the Bulls/Wizards game in Chicago on ESPN Australia February 24th. Not too many complaints about the schedule at the moment.

[Dan's Brain]

Foxtel update: Can you believe it? Fox Sports 3 will be showing the Bulls/Kings game next Friday, starting at 2:30 PM. Three Bulls games in three weeks, followed by the full All-Star Weekend and the Bulls/Wizards game in Chicago on ESPN Australia February 24th. Not too many complaints about the schedule at the moment.

What makes it even better is that the win over the sonics takes the Bulls to 4-0 in Australian tv games. One game a week guarantees one win a week.

And the Hinrich to Deng tap was great.