Andrea Bargnani the worst 1st pick ever?

Not at all.
I mean,why should we judge after only 9 games? I don't think that every rookie this year is SOOOO good right now,maybe a very few of 'em.
don't forget that Dwyane Wade was not that much of an 'OMG BEST EVEEEER' till last year,maybe even in 05's playoffs,and look at him now. Look at Kwame Brown,on whom nobody even spit at his direction before,he's now the 3rd most important player in the lakers!
All I'm saying is,try to wait till the end of the season,maybe even the next one,and then talk about him. Don't forget that with Chris Bosh as your starting PF,It'll be hard to get enough PT.

Oh,and Michael Olowkandi is the worst. lol

Look at Kwame Brown,on whom nobody even spit at his direction before,he's now the 3rd most important player in the lakers!
l

heck no, bynum and farmar over brown...

IMO, bargnani is a poor fit in the current toronto team. too many shooters to add another 7ft shooter. bosh might have softened on his stance, but I believe he was right when he said that the raptors needs a banger. a calderon+ramos+bargnani for brown+vujacic trade works for me...

Too many shooters?

How many shooters do Toronto have?

Morris Peterson...

too many shooters to add another 7ft shooter

Another 7 foot shooter? I hope your talking about layups, because Nesterovic won't be shooting threes anytime soon.

I'll say he is. He's averaging 4.1 Ppg and 1.8 Rpg. Playing only 9.3 Mpg.

Stats on a guy playing those few minutes are completely irrelevant. Kobe Bryant for his entire rookie year averaged 7.6 points per game. Are we going to say Kobe was one of the worst picks ever?

I have my doubts too, then he played pretty well last night!! I think he has skill, he just needs to get used to the NBA

I'll say he is. He's averaging 4.1 Ppg and 1.8 Rpg. Playing only 9.3 Mpg.

Stats on a guy playing those few minutes are completely irrelevant. Kobe Bryant for his entire rookie year averaged 7.6 points per game. Are we going to say Kobe was one of the worst picks ever?

no..because he's not the first pick..idiot

Andrea is playing really well, I don't care the numbers. He's even more mature than most of the sophomores. He only needs more minutes and more shots to shine, but he's a solid NBA player.

I'll say he is. He's averaging 4.1 Ppg and 1.8 Rpg. Playing only 9.3 Mpg.

Stats on a guy playing those few minutes are completely irrelevant. Kobe Bryant for his entire rookie year averaged 7.6 points per game. Are we going to say Kobe was one of the worst picks ever?

no..because he's not the first pick..idiot

I didn't say Kobe was a first pick. Learn to read junior, it's a fundamental skill.

em sorry but the topic is about barganani bein the 1st pick... i just think 1st picks should make immediate impacts

not when you consider that he was picked on his potential. in recent draft history- GM's for the most part have been drafting with this philosophy. not since the selection of Elton Brand- has the #1 pick been expected to step in and kick ass immediatley. yes there was Lebron James but i don't think anyone thought/knew/expected he was going to be so good so early

There are less than a third of the games played. I wouldn't write him off just yet, although foul problems are definitely plaguing him from playing more minutes.

But don't foul problems plague 99% of rookies? He just needs time, and maybe a new coach with a system. Not a new system, a system period.

Too many shooters?

How many shooters do Toronto have?

Morris Peterson...

too many shooters to add another 7ft shooter

Another 7 foot shooter? I hope your talking about layups, because Nesterovic won't be shooting threes anytime soon.

well there are the recent acquisitions in fred jones, parker and garbajosa. bosh takes a number of outside shots as well.

Fred Jones isn't a shooter. He shoots a lot, but that doesn't make him a shooter.

But don't foul problems plague 99% of rookies? He just needs time, and maybe a new coach with a system. Not a new system, a system period.

It's bad though that 9 games into the season, it's the coach who is ripping in on the team's top pick. I think mitchell won't be staying too long as head coach of the raptors.

Bargnani needs more minutes for sure, but he isn't exactly allowing himself to stay in the game with the fouls he picks up. Maybe I would be a little happier if his fouls were hard fouls that stopped the opponent from getting an easy two points than soft fouls and cheap lame Illegal Screen fouls.

^ I agree. His fouls are a concern, but I definitely would not want him to go less aggressive or soft to avoid fouling. The guy can block, and I want him to learn how to block without fouling and to be in good position to avoid fouling.

But don't foul problems plague 99% of rookies? He just needs time, and maybe a new coach with a system. Not a new system, a system period.

In Johan Petro's case they seem to plague sophomores as well. He must learn from Danny Fortson.

WTF how can there be 6 votes for yes? hes played like 10 games!

WTF how can there be 6 votes for yes? hes played like 10 games!

You'll soon learn that the world is full of stupid people. This forum is no different.

WTF how can there be 6 votes for yes? hes played like 10 games!

You'll soon learn that the world is full of stupid people. This forum is no different.

I'll say he is. He's averaging 4.1 Ppg and 1.8 Rpg. Playing only 9.3 Mpg.

Is this ^ guy one of them???

well, I can easily say Kwame and Michael Olowokandi are closer to this distinction than Bargnani will ever be. and second, there are a few #1 picks that haven't really lived up to the hype:
1995-Joe Smith, G State- has been a decent player in the NBA for the last 10 years, but nothing too spectacular. some high school kid named Garnett would've been a good pick, but it's easy to say in hindsight.
1989-Pervis "Never Nervous" (more like "Never good") Ellison, Sacramento- THis guy stuck in the league for over 10 years, but was never any good. He was picked over Sean Elliott, Glen Rice, Tim Hardaway, and Shawn Kemp.
2000-Kenyon Martin, New Jersey- Despite putting up good numbers w/ JKidd for a few years, his knees finally caught up to him. He hasn't played much the last two years.

That reminds me, 2000 was such a shit draft

ROUND 1

1. Kenyon Martin - His best season was as a 17/10 guy, on a team with Jason Kidd (hence the points) and no rebounders (hence the rebounds). Career 13/6 guy, definately not 1st pick numbers.

2-4. Stromile Swift, Darius Miles, Marcus Fizer - Under acheivers. Darius Miles the best of the 3 as a career 10/5 guy... That says alot about the other 2, one of which has failed to make an NBA roster this season.

5. Mike Miller - Was ROY with 12/4/2... will be a career 6th man. Good 3 point shooter, can rebound, thats about it. Wouldn't start on most NBA teams.

6. Dermarr Johnson - Never averaged double figures or played a full season, averaged 1 assist twice over his 5 seasons thus far. Not starting material, more like a 3 point chucking role player, if that makes sense.

7. Chris Mihm - Never played a full season, can't pass or score. Pretty good rebounder, probably one of the best in the draft at 5.5 per... says alot about this draft.

8. Jamal Crawford - Was an after thought before the pre draft camps, but actually turned out pretty good. Good scorer, racks up some assists but is a chucker. Can't rebound for shit or play defence. Would be a 3rd option on most teams.

9. Joel Pryzbilla - The third best big on the Portland TrailBlazers.... decent rebounder that does nothing else.

10. Keyon Dooling - Not starter material, athletic guard. Had his best season last year with 9/1/2 with the Magic.

11. Jerome Moiso - Career 2.7/2.7/0.3 guy, pretty much did nothing throughout his career except suck.

12. Etan Thomas - Barely a starter, wouldn't be on almost all teams in the league. Is yet to play a full season and has never averaged double figures in scoring or rebounding.

13. Courtney Alexander - Played big minutes for Washington at the start of his career and played well, but still hasn't averaged double figures in his strength - scoring, thus far. Hasn't done anything since, not even a full season. I don't even know who he plays for at the moment but he was awesome in NBA Live 2003.

14. Mateen Cleaves - Was a very good player in college, but in the NBA never averaged more than 5.4PPG. Was known as a very good passer, but got cut by the Cavaliers after his best season (4 games) passing wise... Would barely make any NBA roster.

15. Jason Collier - During his career was actually one of the best big men in the draft, at just 5.6/2.9 per... Didn't really ever do anything very well and definitely wouldn't start on any team. RIP.

16-19. Hedo Turkoglu, Desmond Mason, Quentin Richardson, Jamaal Magloire - All quality players, all starting material. Richardson the best of the four while the second best (Jamaal Magloire) was one of the worst NBA All Stars of all time. Desmond Mason was pretty good and on the rise before being traded to New Orleans, where he continues to start.

... 21. Morris Peterson - Pretty much starting material, a decent guard with good range but is very inconsistant. Not much else to say.

22. Donnell Harvey - I only ever knew this guy because I wanted to see if any free agents could enter the Dunk Contest in NBA Live 2005, and his name popped up. I played with him and lost. I read he was a pretty good rebounder and thats about it.

23. Deshawn Stevenson - Decent, hardly starting material but better than almost everyone else in this draft.

24. Dalibor Bagaric - Who?

25. Jake Tsakalidis - The artist formely known as Iakovos has done nothing throughout his career.

... 29. Mark Madsen - Pretty much hustles and thats about it. Also can't dance.

ROUND 2

1. Marko Jaric - Career 2nd string PG. Pretty good pick this late, judging by his career numbers (8.3/2.9/4.3) should have gone top 5 or so... again, shows how shit this draft was. Also let me add he ws the best Point Guard selected in the draft.

... 8. Eddie House - Shoots 3's and doesn't do much else. Career journey man, not much of a player but still the second best PG in the draft.

... 14. Michael Redd - Judgin by Michael Redd's status nowadays and the rest of this draft, this should only be seconded by MJ at 3rd as the best pick of all time Milwaukee got a huge steal, getting the obvious 1st overall pick at 43...

... 15. Brian Cardinal - Rich mans Mark Madsen... very rich, at over 5 mil last season. Does nothing but grab loose balls (Reggie Evans?) and loose his hair at a young age.

Nothing at all beyond 15.

come to think of it, nba live 2000 was a great game without these rookie class either. i agree micheal redd is the real #1 pick in this class

judging by his career numbers (8.3/2.9/4.3) should have gone top 5 or so

lmao, that's close enough to reality. the 2000 draft is the ultimate "potential" draft. Nearly everyone had it, but lack of bball IQ killed that idea.