Malone & Payton will probably join Lakers.

by **Robby** on Mon Jul 07, 2003 10:30 am

I agree, in the long term Howard would be a better fit for LA because he is younger but I read at espn.com that Howard is planning to go to the TWolves. As for Payton, he needs to play a bit more unselfishly like he did in 96, the only season in which Kemp averaged more points than Payton and the Sonics, as a result, made it to the Finals.

by **MAKAVELI THE DON** on Mon Jul 07, 2003 11:09 am

I think Juan Howard would do a great job for LA, but it's their decision if they want Malone or Howard, who is younger!

Earlier in the this post, I said the Lakers should go after Gilbert Areans because he's a heck of a scorer, passer & 3point shooter (not that Payton isn't), because they won't have to spend as much! But someone disagreed and said that Payton has more experience and that is what the Lakers need?

But nowadays in the NBA, experience is a big factor, but not necessarily needed? Look at the Spurs, they got Duncan, & Robinson (Kerr and Willis), and everybody else is young and inexperienced! The Nets, only have Jason Kidd (and if you want to count Mutombo)... Alot of the teams in the playoffs today, don't necessarily have a full team of experienced players, a few; but everybody else is not!

The point I'm making is: LA has Kobe & Shaq, and will probably get Karl Malone? Before adding Gary Payton, you have to consider the scoring situation, especially as far as Kobe is concerned! If they've got those four guys, will the other role players remaining (Fisher, Fox and Horry) be able to be a factor?

Adding Gilbert Arenas makes it alot easier, yes he will have lots of 20 point games & a few 30 point games, but he will & Malone will be a good 3rd & 4th scorer, not disrupting the Laker offense.

by **Colin** on Mon Jul 07, 2003 11:24 am

MAKAVELI THE DON wrote:Earlier in the this post, I said the Lakers should go after Gilbert Areans because he's a heck of a scorer, passer & 3point shooter (not that Payton isn't), because they won't have to spend as much! But someone disagreed and said that Payton has more experience and that is what the Lakers need?

Of course that would be ideal getting Gilbert and having a young player like that getting better. But he, being a young;n, will want more money than the Lakers can offer. So chances are he won't sign with them, unless he realizes he could sign a 3 year contract or something have a great chance at a championship and re-sign and get his payday.

by **slam37** on Mon Jul 07, 2003 2:14 pm

the Lakers should sign younger players to secure a better future

It seems that this is the main opinion of many people on here, that perhaps going after Payton or Malone due to their age is a mistake. After all, it's better to plan for the future, right?

Wrong. I don't know if anyone else feels this way, the the Los Angelas Lakers didn't win 3 straight NBA titles by trying to secure a future. They did it by doing what was best for them to win the NBA title that year.

In the modern NBA, everyone is focused on the future, and on what they can do to secure a bright one. But who are the most succesful teams? The Lakers, Spurs, Mavericks, and Kings, all of whom bid for a title in the present, doing what is best for the day.

With the Lakers current budget, today, on July 6th 2003, Karl Malone and Gary Payton are the 2 best players that they can probably lure with their minimum salaries. Better than Juwan Howard, PJ Brown, Gilbert Arenis, or whoever else is out there they might be able to get. Why in the name of hell wouldn't you want what is currently best?

There is only one, yes ONE NBA title per year. Even if you do what is best, the ring is never 100% a gaurauntee to anyone. I believe that common sense merits that in order to keep your odds good, you can only do what is best and hope it works out well. And what is best is what is best for the upcoming season, not for 5 years down the road. Otherwise LA wouldn't have 3 rings... Otherwise the Spurs would have dismantled their team before this season to try to prepare for the future... Live for the day!

by **air gordon** on Mon Jul 07, 2003 4:00 pm

i thought the spurs were in a transition/rebuilding year. management was positioning the team to be a major player for the big FA's this offseason(so they can give duncan a reason to stick around).

i think if management was really "doing what is best for the day", they would not have traded for the injured steve smith and his expiring contract or leave duncan/admiral with such a young & inexperienced supporting cast heading into the playoffs.

by **Swoosh** on Mon Jul 07, 2003 7:20 pm

Robby i have to agree with what u said earlier on ur reply at my message though i would like to say i didnt really mean to compare parker with horry,just that u shouldnt forget what horry has done previous years and its not cuz he has a bad year now he suddenly sucks.
And then again, why are all u lakers fans even thinking u can get arenas??!!! He knows better than anyone he had a breakout year, a great year and that now is the time to get the big bucks cuz if he signs a low deal and he has a bad year(like dre miller)he wont get his money, he is still really young and has a lot to learn and enough time to go after a championship, money is his first concern right now i believe, cuz after all, wasnt he a second round pick? He didnt earn as much as ming or another first round rookie, thats why he is gonna go for the money i believe. I wouldnt mind him playing in denver

by **Wall St. Peon** on Mon Jul 07, 2003 9:44 pm

It seems that this is the main opinion of many people on here, that perhaps going after Payton or Malone due to their age is a mistake. After all, it's better to plan for the future, right?

Wrong. I don't know if anyone else feels this way, the the Los Angelas Lakers didn't win 3 straight NBA titles by trying to secure a future. They did it by doing what was best for them to win the NBA title that year.

The only reason to go after Malone would be for sentimental reasons. Juwan Howard would be able to put up roughly the same numbers as Malone at the power forward position, and he'd also be a lot less likely to bitch about any touches and how many points per game he's averaging. Malone's going for the All-Time scoring title for crying out loud, and Kobe and Shaq want MORE shots...if you add Malone, you'd be alright, but adding Payton AND Malone would cause a problem...there wouldn't be enough balls to go around.

You also have to think about the triangle. There is no true point guard, so that takes the ball out of Payton's hands, and Payton NEEDS the ball in his hands to make anything happen.

How can you say the teams aren't planning for the future? The Kings, Spurs, and Mavericks are all really young teams that are built for the future. The Spurs were rebuilding last year for crying out loud! The Lakers kept around what had worked in the past and it didn't work because those players were older....

Here's a little note...Mitch Richmond scored about 20ppg before going to the Lakers. He's no Gary Payton, but they're similar in regards to needing touches on the ball...and he didn't even play. Apparently he's retired now....

There isn't enough balls to go around...

by **Divan Santana** on Tue Jul 08, 2003 12:20 am

Have to agree with Greg(Slam37)!

Exactly what I wanted to say.

Shane its just not possible, yes it might be a good idea but LA can only afford Juwan and probably not anyone else or at least no great young point guard.

This is a great deal, and not many teams(ever) get such a chance. Its just LA's attraction and luck so they better convice Gary Payton(one of my fav players!) and Malone!

It would defintely help them even for two more years of there dynasty(at least at that time...) :wink:

by **slam37** on Tue Jul 08, 2003 2:43 am

I wasn't even saying that adding Malone and Payton would increase the Lakers odds of winning a ring, though I believe they would be a better team they are right now.

I am saying that if they pass up on Malone and/or Payton it shouldn't be because of their age, it should be because they can grab someone who fits in better at the very moment.

Mitch Richmond averaged about 15 points the season before he came to LA, his game had declined much more than either Payton's or Malone's because of age. He also happened to play SG, Kobe's position...

I think to be a successful basketball team you must alter the team strategy around the players - not try to cram players into a system that may not work for them. So true, the triangle is not designed for 4 players shooting the ball etc, but if the Lakers force that system upon the team if they get Payton and Malone, they will be defeating themselves, not their oppenents.

The Spurs building for the future? Hardly. Yes, they have cap space availabe and are trying to get better, but they are going to try and sign a marquee free agent regardless of age. They'd like another ring.

The Mavs and Kings have kept their core group of guys together and simply added to it. They have concerned themselves with winning now, and haven't strayed from that path. I do believe a nice balance of planning for the future and winning right now is the best way to go about it. However, in the Lakers case, with their limited options, they need to sign the best available players.

by **Robby** on Tue Jul 08, 2003 3:16 am

slam37: I think what Shane is saying is that the Spurs were in a rebuilding mode last year, which they were according to Greg Popovich, it just happened that their team in transition was fortunate enough to win the title. Now, however, I believe that they are definitly gearing up for another title.

When talking about Malone and Payton in LA, I think people need to realize just how great of a defensive team that would be rather than focus just on the offensive end. All four could have been put on the defensive first team this past year (Even Malone, just look at his steals average for the past two years). And their good defense and rebounding (read former post) should create many fast break oppotunities. They will be winning games and the bickering should stay low if that happens. However, the success of all this depends on Payton and how willing he is to make the sacrifice for the team. I personally believe that if he signs with LA, he will put the team first and his stats second but that's just my opinion.

by **scubilete** on Tue Jul 08, 2003 4:17 am

Knowing the Lakers don't have much to offer, getting anyone who can help, will not be enough in a league where everyone is getting better. As a Laker fan, I can't start dreaming about getting Payton, of course if the Lakers get him I would be happy but I'm realistic, I know well Payton might decide to get to New Jersey to lead that team as well, so as usual, I just can be a fan with whatever the Lakers come up.

In order to win another championship, Lakers need the role players & young guys to start playing better so it happens what just happened to the Spurs. Even when the Spurs were the best team (something not related with the MVP but with the "role players"), they knew the Lakers could take that away from them. Lakers need that bunch of lazies to start developing their game so they can get some playing time and help the team. George & Medvedenko are getting better but those (I might still call them) rookies (Pargo & Rush) need to get a better level of playing to help the team and I know they are good, they just need confidence, aggressiveness and attack the basket more often.

by **putodelagoa** on Tue Jul 08, 2003 4:24 am

The only reason to go after Malone would be for sentimental reasons. Juwan Howard would be able to put up roughly the same numbers as Malone at the power forward position...

While it's true that Howard has a lesser Ego than Malone, I don't think he is nearly as good as Malone.
. Just forget about the Scoring Record bogus... A Title is what moves a player, not some curious fact, proper for quizz shows and statistical fanatics.
.As for the age regards, Malone might be in his 40's, but I suspect he surpasses Howard in every phisical aspect of the game, besides, he still is the better rebounder and a superior defender of the two. And he can PASS the ball...

As for Shaq and Bryant's Egos, I think they understood this year that they cannot do it all by themselves. And if the rumors are right, Shaq and Payton have been "buddy-buddy" for the last weeks, so I think there will be no annimosity in the locker room, or childish fights for proeminency.

As for Horry's struggles...
Kukoc struggled mightly in the 96 playoffs, but those Bulls where deep enough to survive without their 6th man. But they didn't dump him for that matter...

by **Robby** on Tue Jul 08, 2003 5:12 am

As for Horry's struggles...
Kukoc struggled mightly in the 96 playoffs, but those Bulls where deep enough to survive without their 6th man. But they didn't dump him for that matter...

Kukoc was on his way up at that time and Horry is on the donwside of his career right now. Also, Kukoc was a much better player than Horry and he did have one very good game in the finals against Seattle and another fairly productive one. His best was one of the first two home games for Chicago, can't remember which one though. As for Horry, keep in mind that Horry would have gotten $5.1 million, which is quite a bit in today's free agency. Besides, by cutting Horry loose, LA can get Payton and Malone, both much better players than Horry. Finally, Horry, after not being picked back up, said he would take Malone and Payton over him as well.

by **Jackal** on Tue Jul 08, 2003 9:09 am

Payton will not be returning to Milwaukee.

Reading that, you can see that Lakers are high on Payton's list which is very good news for Laker fans if he does sign. If Payton does sign, I think Malone will sign also.

Seeing the list of Payton and putting myself in his position; *Payton's brain: MUST win RING, MUST win RING, Must win ring!!*

1) I dont think it would be a good idea to join Miami because his chances of winning a championship with them are quiet slim & Miami should look to develop their younger players.
2) I dont think Payton should look to join the Portland Jailblazers (

) because it will just be a waste of a whole season cuz like it or not, that team is talented...yet they stink. What a waste for basketball fans...but thats another topic.

Looking at these points I think it would be a very good idea for Payton to join the Lakers, but what do I know...I'm just a Laker fan :lol:

.

by **LeBron James** on Tue Jul 08, 2003 9:10 am

horry is the still clutch player-he can shoot open jumpers,three pointers wery well.he is so tall and shoots treys like peja or ray.
thanks to robert lakers won the finals(conference finals vs sacramento game winning shot.)robert is still a good player,but he needs team,where is not stars like kobe and shaq.he need steam like bucks or sixers.horry is not downside of his career i think.

by **GloveGuy** on Tue Jul 08, 2003 9:11 am

As a Laker fan, I can't start dreaming about getting Payton, of course if the Lakers get him I would be happy but I'm realistic, I know well Payton might decide to get to New Jersey to lead that team as well, so as usual, I just can be a fan with whatever the Lakers come up.

Actually, there's no chance of Payton going to NJ. He's just recently narrowed his options to three teams: Los Angeles, Portland, and Miami

by **Wall St. Peon** on Tue Jul 08, 2003 9:21 am

While it's true that Howard has a lesser Ego than Malone, I don't think he is nearly as good as Malone.

I never said Howard was better than Malone...I said they'd be able to do the same thing at the power forward position in LA...rebound and score 15-20 ppg...they have similar styles of playing, and while Malone's more talented, they could get the same thing from Howard for less and for longer...

As for someone saying 'change the system to the players'...yeah, right. How long has Phil been running the triangle? That'll never happen, and it'll take away the point guard position which is what Payton plays...

It would be a good defensive team, but more beause they're superstars and get away with hacks and reaches when other players don't...

Oddly enough, I'm trying to look for what's best for the Lakers in the future...they're still a playoff team right now even in a state of disarray. All they need are solid young players who can develop around Kobe into the quality role players they need. They'll be a great team with Malone, Kobe, and Shaq, but as much as I like him, I don't think Payton is a fit for the Lakers simply because he has an enormous ego.

However, Juwan Howard, I believe, said that he had taken the Lakers off his list because of their attitude that it was a privelage to play for the Lakers. If he's offended by that attitude and that attitude is there, well, I don't see Malone or Payton getting along with the rest of the Lakers for that long....

by **Robby** on Tue Jul 08, 2003 9:32 am

horry is not downside of his career i think

Are you nuts jason kidd? Have you seen Horry play this past season and compared him to what he was like in '94 and '95? I acknowledge that Horry can still make a clutch basket now and then, even though he had a terrible playoff and missed open three after open three, but, also, he is no longer the defender he once was and his timely shooting does not outweigh his decline on the defensive end.

robert is still a good player,but he needs team,where is not stars like kobe and shaq.he need steam like bucks or sixers.

That's a fabulous idea since Horry is a great one on one player and not just a spot up shooter and Iverson is not a star.

by **scubilete** on Tue Jul 08, 2003 9:36 am

Gloveguy wrote:Actually, there's no chance of Payton going to NJ. He's just recently narrowed his options to three teams: Los Angeles, Portland, and Miami

I wouldn't get mad if that is the real list Payton has in mind, but have you thought of how much those teams can spend to get Payton?.

It would be too good if Payton decides to play for 2 Millions and get a ring, someone who earned over 12 Millions last season, the purple franchise welcomes you Payton.

Miami is going to try to keep Mourning, after paying the kind of money they did, I don't think they will let him go.

Portland is in the same situation as the Lakers, none of them can spend money. And that's a fact, if Payton & Malone want to play for the Lakers, they would need to accept sharing less than 5 Millions in total, that's all the Lakers can offer.

All they need are solid young players who can develop around Kobe into the quality role players they need.

by **GloveGuy** on Tue Jul 08, 2003 10:39 am

It would be a good defensive team, but more beause they're superstars and get away with hacks and reaches when other players don't...

There's no denying how good Payton and Malone are on defense. They're probably two of the smartest defenders in the league right now. They don't get away with stuff because there is nothing really to get away left. A Gary Payton and Kobe Bryant backcourt, is probably one of the best defensive backcourts of all time(even though I kind of think Bryant's defense has gone down since the Lakers first and second championship runs). Payton's one of the most reliable stoppers in the league.

I don't think Payton is a fit for the Lakers simply because he has an enormous ego.

If Payton signs with the Lakers then that will show that his ego isn't big. He'd be signing on to a team for less money than his capabilities speak for. He knows that his stats will go down. He's most likely taken that into consideration. If he doesn't want a ring so bad, than he can go sign with another team. If I were Phil Jackson, I'd be worrying about Shaq and Kobe's egos before if I were to worry about any egos at all.

Portland is in the same situation as the Lakers, none of them can spend money. And that's a fact, if Payton & Malone want to play for the Lakers, they would need to accept sharing less than 5 Millions in total, that's all the Lakers can offer.

If Portland were to obtain Payton, then it would be in a sign-and-trade deal probably. If Payton and Malone are to sign with the Lakers then Payton would sign for the mid level and Malone would sign for the veteran's minimum, which is the highest the Lakers can offer without going under the cap too much(I think that's how it is).

by **Wall St. Peon** on Tue Jul 08, 2003 11:21 am

There's no denying how good Payton and Malone are on defense. They're probably two of the smartest defenders in the league right now. They don't get away with stuff because there is nothing really to get away left. A Gary Payton and Kobe Bryant backcourt, is probably one of the best defensive backcourts of all time(even though I kind of think Bryant's defense has gone down since the Lakers first and second championship runs). Payton's one of the most reliable stoppers in the league.

I never said I was talking about Payton and Malone....I was just trying to avoid a flame war in regards to a couple current Lakers defense.

If Payton signs with the Lakers then that will show that his ego isn't big. He'd be signing on to a team for less money than his capabilities speak for. He knows that his stats will go down. He's most likely taken that into consideration. If he doesn't want a ring so bad, than he can go sign with another team. If I were Phil Jackson, I'd be worrying about Shaq and Kobe's egos before if I were to worry about any egos at all.

I should have been more specific...I know Payton has a big ego, but he's also extremely competitive....it may start off alright and be a good idea for him to go to the Lakers for less, drop the numbers a bit, and get a ring, but by the end of the season I don't think he's going to be happy averaging something like 12ppg and 6 apg...also, I don't think he'd take any shit whatsoever from Kobe and Shaq and would probably get sick of their attitudes (Shaq, mostly)...

Personally, I'd like to see Payton end up in Toronto.

Payton could be the talented version of Oakley that rekindles VC's fire....

but I'm dreaming....

by **GloveGuy** on Tue Jul 08, 2003 11:50 am

It's not gonna be 12 ppg 6 apg. I see his assists going up and his points dropping. I see him taking the type of Jason Kidd role. This is what I think will happen if he signs. I'm not too sure how much PT Jackson's gonna give him.

He won't end up in Toronto, trust me...

by **Wall St. Peon** on Tue Jul 08, 2003 12:57 pm

I see his assists going up and his points dropping

Gonna have to disagree with you. Kobe handles the ball too much for Payton to get 10apg, and Malone and Shaq are also good passers, and they'll be passing out of the post TO Payton.

The triangle has no point guard...because of that, the ball will go through Kobe more than Payton, and because of that, both Payton's points and assists will go down.

by **air gordon** on Tue Jul 08, 2003 3:39 pm

someone mentioned earlier that "it's the ring that motivates, not stats, etc.." or something like that.
that's a load of bull- otherwise you'd see the best FA's all splitting the MLE, VE, and/IE to sign on one team

and i also have to agree with Shane in regards to the assist thing- no player has averaged close to 10apg in the triangle offense during phil jackson's regime. i think the highest was 7 in 1991 by pippen

by **putodelagoa** on Wed Jul 09, 2003 12:49 am

someone mentioned earlier that "it's the ring that motivates, not stats, etc.." or something like that.
that's a load of bull- otherwise you'd see the best FA's all splitting the MLE, VE, and/IE to sign on one team

That was me.
I'll explain miself:

If you are on the downside of your career, with a shitload of money on the bank, with two good years ahead of you before you pack and go fishing with your grandsons, nothing else to prove on the court, if the only thing you didn't do in your looong career was getting a championship, if you are, say, Karl Malone and Gary Payton, then your ONLY motivation will be the ring, not $$$$$, that's for the poor youngsters. :wink:

Malone & Payton will probably join Lakers.

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