Kwame Brown, Darius Miles and Kedrick Brown.

[paul_pierce_the_truth]

These players jumped straight from High School or from some Junior College, they are young and it takes time. I really think it's harsh and unrealistic to expect them to be great already, these guys are not Kobe Bryant, Kevin Garnett or Tracy McGrady, but who is? I mean Kobe, McGrady and KG are better than 99% of the entire world of basketball. Of course they came along faster than Miles and Kwame. People say awful things about these players, but do not crush Al Harrington or Jonathan Bender, I do not understand it.

Al Harrington is 23 years old and has come along very slowly, yet people do not bash him.

Jonathan Bender is 22 years old and has shown zip for ability, but again no bashing, he was acquired for Antonio Davis, that hurts.

Jermaine O'Neal did nothing for years, some say that is not his fault, bullshit, if he were dominating the Portland roster in practice, he would have been starting the games, playing big minutes. It just takes time.

Darius Miles is great and I can not wait to see him mature, he is 21 years old and will become a great player.

Kwame Brown is very good as well, no further behind than Jermaine O'Neal was at this point, Jermaine didn't have Michael Jordan and Doug Collins being complete jerkoffs to him. Kwame will be very good soon.
A guy like Drew Gooden looks better than Kwame in his first year, but remember he went to Kansas under now UNC coach Roy Williams for years and is 21 years old. From age 18 to 20 he played as a star, not as the brunt of tough critisism. I will enjoy watching Kwame become a star.

Kedrick Brown appears less talented, but still very young and without any background of basketball teaching, he is learning still and will be a fine player.

The Los Angeles Clippers suck and will maybe lose Elton Brand and Andre Miller meanwhile Tyson Chandler is a budding star and terrific talent, as is Darius Miles.

The Portland Trailblazers are still a good team and a smart team (Zach Randolph), but having Jermaine O'Neal today is still better than having Dale Davis yesterday.

The Toronto Raptors chose Vince Carter as it's star, like somehow they could have only one. They should have gave the money to Tracy McGrady and not Antonio Davis. They chose to deal Bender for Davis, but Davis was becoming a free agent soon, this put them in a place where they had to let McGrady get away, you see how well that payed off.

I really think people are less patient today because of McGrady, Kobe and Garnett, but forget that they didn't complain about Jermaine O'Neal, because the whole thing was an unknown. Let this be a warning to those fans that start complaining about LeBron James (doubtful) or Darko Milicic, that it takes time. No 18 year old player has dominated in the NBA, as a matter of fact the only player I can think of that was under 21 that did great things was Magic Johnson.

Go ahead Cleveland trade Miles, go ahead Washington trade Kwame Brown, two years from now when they blow up, everyone will wonder what the heck they were doing trading them, like they do to Charlotte (New Orleans) for trading Kobe and what the heck Orlando was doing when they let McGrady get away.

Just wait for Darius Miles, Kwame Brown, Kedrick Brown to come along, not everyone is Amare Stoudemire.

[Andrew]

You bring up a good point - KG, Kobe and T-Mac have shown that young players with great potential can become great players in time. But that kind of thinking has led to impatience. MJ and Collins aside, Kwame's been playing behind Christian Laettner, who is the established player - in other words, Kwame's not in a great position to get minutes. I too think that with a legitimate chance at minutes, Kwame will start to play as expected.

Kedrick Brown's basically the same. Paul Pierce is an All-Star, Eric Williams is an established veteran. It's a pretty successful lineup for the Celtics, so Kedrick's playing time suffers as a result. I admit, I don't get to see a lot of Celtics games, but it seems to me Boston has never had to really use him. Should he get a chance to show what he can do night in and night out, it's doubtful he'll remain "that guy on the Celtics' roster". (Never said I was good with nicknames).

I think Darius is different though. Darius really needs to commit himself to improving the weaknesses in his game - his jumpshot, and his lack of bulk. Without bulk, he's not effective as a low post player. Without a jumpshot, he can't play outside either. From the time he entered the league, he's been a pretty good slasher, but again without much muscle, it's difficult for him to finish. That said, no need to give up on him. Just encourage him to put some effort in.

As far as Harrington and Bender go, I don't think there was ever really the expectations placed upon them, so they can more easily avoid the same criticism that is dumped on guys like Kwame, Kedrick and Darius. People expected Kwame to be like Amare was this year, and Darius was considered to be a KG-like player as well. High expectations breeds harsher criticism - unfair, but true.

[GloveGuy]

Kedrick's supposed to be very good. I've heard that he's shown some unbelievable plays in the Celtics' practices and has a large amount of athleticism. It's kind of weird that when the Celtics had the 10th and 11th pick, they picked two swingmen, Joe Johnson and Brown, after they already have Paul Pierce and Eric Williams. It was obvious that one wouldn't get the PT he desereved, even if he was a lottery pick.

[Rens]

The Toronto Raptors chose Vince Carter as it's star, like somehow they could have only one. They should have gave the money to Tracy McGrady and not Antonio Davis. They chose to deal Bender for Davis, but Davis was becoming a free agent soon, this put them in a place where they had to let McGrady get away, you see how well that payed off.

Dude, you have no idea what you're talking about here. The Raptors had virtually no front line, as Oakley and Willis were getting old (actually, they were already old when they came to Toronto) and the Raptors needed a veteran presence, and Antonio Davis was and is that.
Davis was a free agent after McGrady left Toronto. And McGrady was offered the MAX by the Raptors, but he left anyway. What else was the team supposed to do to make you understand they wanted to keep him? Have every employee tattoo his image on their butts??

[paul_pierce_the_truth]

Toronto offered 70/6
Orlando offered 93/7

Toronto should have offered 93/7 or even 98/7.

Toronto did something wrong with McGrady or he would still be there. They either didn't believe in him or he in them.

Antonio Davis they did believe in and offered him the same they offered McGrady or there abouts.

They decided that Antonio Davis was important enough to keep and McGrady was not. Paint me a picture how it makes sense.
McGrady left for a reason, tell me what it was, if it wasn't the organization's fault.


The topic is about teams giving up on young players, I believe Toronto showed something to McGrady he didn't care to see, whereas Orlando landed the superstar.

Darius Miles is really not to thin, Kevin Garnett is as skinny as a diving board. His jumpshot does need work, but again he needs time. Darius Miles at the age of 21, can not be considered a flop, as some media and members have suggested.

[TheBob]

Toronto offered 70/6
Orlando offered 93/7

Toronto should have offered 93/7 or even 98/7.

I'm pretty sure you're wrong here but don't know where to look to find evidence, so I'll concede this point.

Toronto did something wrong with McGrady or he would still be there.

Ya had they imported his mother when he was born and had McGrady grow up in Toronto they would have been able to keep him. Stupid Raptors for not doing that...

They decided that Antonio Davis was important enough to keep and McGrady was not.

No they tried to resign both of them but only succeeded with one...

Paint me a picture how it makes sense.
McGrady left for a reason, tell me what it was, if it wasn't the organization's fault.

McGrady left because he wanted to play at home and because he wanted to be the number one option. He got both of those by going to Orlando.

The topic is about teams giving up on young players, I believe Toronto showed something to McGrady he didn't care to see,

Toronto DID NOT give up on McGrady. He chose to leave and there was nothing the Raps could do about it except maybe trade Carter, which at the time would have been incredibly stupid as Carter was a far better player. No one knew that McGrady would become a better player than Carter when he left. If you say you did then you're a liar or just plain lucky.

[Colin]

On the subject of young players (because I was going to post exactly what TheBob posted) I think that Kareem Rush will improve soon along with Qyntel Woods, Joe Johnson, Dermarr Johnson, Rodney White, Rashard Lewis, (if he is properly healed,) Lavor Postell (if he pulls what he does in the layup line during a game,) I hope Rafer gets resigned by Toronto and Hunter or Peterson give him number 11 or 24 (or one of them get traded) because if he comes back he'll keep playing well.

[Andrew]

Darius Miles at the age of 21, can not be considered a flop, as some media and members have suggested.

Of course, it's too early for us to be suggesting that. But there are areas he could stand to improve in (jumpshot, free throw shooting). I still think he could benefit to add a little more bulk and muscle though.

[Steve04]

What Andrew is trying to say(I think) is that the steep learning curve of the NBA is one thing, but Miles should be doing everything else he possibly can to improve.
Bulking up and improving your jump shot and free throws does not require 2-3 years due to the steep learning curve of the NBA, it is something the player has to make up his mind to do, and if he does not then ofcourse his work ethic is going to be questioned.

[Andrew]

Yes, that's what I'm saying. It's going to take some effort on Miles' part to further improve his game. He's in a position where he can get minutes and an opportunity to score, but he's still limited by a couple of flaws in his game, flaws that can be mended if he takes the initiative.

In contrast, Kwame and Kedrick have been placed in a situation that does not favour them - playing for a team with an established veteran who plays the same position they do. Kwame especially has come under great scrutiny, being the first high schooler to be taken with the top pick (by an individual whose name is quite famous), and expected to show great promise straight away.

[Rens]

Kwame's been playing behind Christian Laettner, who is the established player - in other words, Kwame's not in a great position to get minutes

Naah I don't think that's the way to put it.. Kwame didn't start over Laettner (8.3ppg, 6.6rpg 1spg) and Haywood (6.2ppg, 5rpg, 1.47bpg), hardly players you expect to keep such a promising young player on the bench. Haywood has just as much experience as Brown, and Laettner would eaily be put on the bench in favour of Brown had he played well.

[paul_pierce_the_truth]

Yeah Christian Laettner only played like ten years in the NBA, once on the Dream Team and four years of college, Kwame should be ahead of him by now.

[Rens]

Laettner was great in college, which is why he was on the Dream Team. In the NBA, he's only faded. Keon Clark started ahead of Hakeem Olajuwon last season for the Raptors.. but wait.. Olajuwon had been in the NBA for 1 and a half decade, won MVPs. I guess Olajuwon should've started

[Steve04]

All Dukies fade in the NBA!

[scubilete]

Yeah Christian Laettner only played like ten years in the NBA, once on the Dream Team and four years of college, Kwame should be ahead of him by now.

If the years of experience determine your starting spot in the team, then I would agree putting Oakley ahead of anyone in the team. In fact, I consider Oakley earned that spot seven years ago. He has only played like 18 years in the NBA, went to college & has been in all star games, definitively I would put him over Kwame if that's how you earn the starting spot in the team. We would have all rookies in the bench and none of them would deserve to start until they are the oldest in the team.

It's funny as others start blaming the coach for the way Kwame sucks playing, Does any of you think Yao won his starting spot in his team or was it a gift for being a 1st pick? Players need to play better to get playing time, don't expect any manager to let Kwame play 40 mins having others in the bench who can do much better.

[paul_pierce_the_truth]

I should not respond to this type of responding, but I will.

I didn't say that if you play two hundred years like Willis you should start ahead of the league's MVP. That's just cheap and ignorant.

I am saying a high school kid in his second year will not usually start ahead of a veteran who is still reasonabley good.

If you numbsculls do not understand this, I can explain further.

Tracy McGrady before he signed with Orlando, sat on Toronto's bench.

Don't insult me, I will insult you, let's all be serious and logical or just don't add anything. Jesus H. Crist alrighty.

[paul_pierce_the_truth]

Yao Ming is older than Kwame and besides that, Kwame and Laettner would start ahead of Kelvin Cato.

[TheBob]

Tracy McGrady before he signed with Orlando, sat on Toronto's bench.

Not right before he signed he didnt. Near the end of his stint with the Raps he was starting.

Jesus H. Crist alrighty.

Jesus has a middle name? Can anyone tell me what it is?

[scubilete]

Yao Ming is older than Kwame

That's not the case, you have to win the position, Kemp didn't have to wait long to start and he was not older than anyone. Plus, LeBron will start and he's not older than Kwame.

Don't you realize you have to play better to get to that position?

That's just cheap and ignorant.

Exactly, that's what we are saying.

I am saying a high school kid in his second year will not usually start ahead of a veteran who is still reasonabley good.

That's just not a reason to be a benchwarmer, LeBron "if he plays well" will start over anyone the Cavs have in the team and that doesn't mean those players are not reasonable good,

let's all be serious and logical or just don't add anything.

At least, I'm being serious & logical, are you being all that?

[benji]

Benji's Take:
Darius Miles gets worse every year...I doubt he'll ever be any sort of real superstar...sixth man is pushing it...Jumaine Jones is a much better player than Miles...at offense and defense...

Kwame Brown should have a good year this upcoming season...maybe even a great year...with Jordan, Collins and hopefully Stackhouse gone, Kwame should have a field day...if he doesn't get traded...even if he does, he should arrive somewhere with a real PF to teach him...

Kedrick Brown...underrated...he's a terrific defender skill wise...and when he puts out the effort, I'd say he's better than Ron Artest because of his foot speed and leaping ability...his offense is kinda limited though...

[f.t.w.]

all this talk is not that far removed from what probably goes on behind the closed doors of NBA execs. ten years ago, you couldn't have tortured me into believing Shawn Kemp whould be a no-jumping fat ass in his early thirties. i could tell you who i think will be good of the young'uns, but opinions are like assholes and so on.

i will say that i think scouts know their shit. i believe if someone gets picked #1 straight out of prom, they are no joke. BTW, i'm a kentucky wildcats fan and for the past 12 years i've been taking every opportunity to say: FUCK CHRISTIAN LAETTNER!