2004-05 Chicago Bulls Season- Lost in First Round to Indiana

GAME 11

PHO 112, CHI 108
Furious Finish Finishes Bulls- Joe Johnson Hits Four 3-Pointers in Final Minute to Steal W


CHICAGO- “No lead is safe against the Phoenix Suns,” said Bulls coach Scott Skiles, “and we found that out the hard way tonight.”
The Bulls led the Suns 106-96 with about 1:30 remaining in the fourth quarter, and it looked like the game was over. Yes, it was all but official that the Bulls had just sealed a nice victory over a dangerous Phoenix team- that is, until, Joe Johnson got hot. Johnson hit 4 three pointers, leading a furious 16-2 burst that propelled Phoenix to victory in remarkable fashion.
It was a demoralizing finish to what was a promising game for the Bulls, who welcomed back Ben Gordon from a 2-game severely sprained left wrist injury. Gordon led a very balanced Bulls attack with 20 points- he was one of 6 players to score at least 14 points. The Bulls shot 48% from the field in the game, and 63% on their three pointers, highlighted by a stretch in the third quarter when they hit 4 threes in a row: Luol Deng hit 2 straight, Kirk Hinrich buried one from the corner, and Ben Gordon followed with one from downtown after that.
Yet, it was all in vain, as the Bulls fell to a 6-5 record, instead of 7-4 if they had held on and won. “These are the types of losses that don’t let you sleep at night,” Bulls guard Kirk Hinrich said. Tyson Chandler added, “I’m still shocked that they won- that was an unbelievable shooting streak by a team that can really fill it up.”
The Suns were led by Chicago-native Quentin Richardson, nicknamed “Q.” He scored a game-high 31 points, and also pulled down 9 offensive rebounds (14 total), despite only being 6-6. Amare Stoudamire had 10 offensive rebounds of his own, as the Bulls gave up a season-high 24 offensive rebounds. Skiles called the matter “extremely frustrating.”

GAME NOTES
Once again, veteran forward/center Antonio Davis gave the Bulls a nice lift off the bench. He recorded a double-double with 14 points and 10 rebounds.

Seldom-used backup point guard Jannero Pargo saw a few minutes of action late in the first half, and made the most of his opportunity. He hit two long jumpers, and scored 4 points.

GAME STATS

CHICAGO
Curry: 14 pts, 9 reb, 4 ast, 6-13 FGs
Chandler: 14 pts, 9 reb, 1 ast, 7-12 FGs
Deng: 16 pts, 6 reb, 1 ast, 7-14 FGs
Gordon: 20 pts, 4 reb, 2 ast, 8-15 FGs
Hinrich: 16 pts, 2 reb, 10 ast, 7-15 FGs
Nocioni: 2 pts, 3 reb, 0 ast, 1-4 FGs
Duhon: 6 pts, 0 reb, 1 ast, 3-3 FGs
Davis: 14 pts, 10 reb, 0 ast, 7-16 FGs
Harrington: 2 pts, 0 reb, 0 ast, 1-6 FGs
Piatkowski: 0 pts, 2 reb, 0 ast, 0-2 FGs
Pargo: 4 pts, 0 reb, 0 ast, 2-2 FGs
TOTALS: 108 pts, 49-102 FGs (.480), 5-5 FTs, 45 REB (12 OFF), 19 AST, 7 FL

PHOENIX
Stoudamire: 19 pts, 15 reb, 3 ast, 9-17 FGs
Marion: 14 pts, 10 reb, 1 ast, 7-19 FGs
Richardson: 31 pts, 14 reb, 1 ast, 13-25 FGs
Johnson: 25 pts, 6 reb, 5 ast, 10-25 FGs
Nash: 15 pts, 9 ast, 1 reb, 6-17 FGs
Jackson: 2 pts, 1 reb, 0 ast, 1-3 FGs
Barbosa: 2 pts, 1 reb, 2 ast, 1-2 FGs
McCarty: 4 pts, 2 reb, 0 ast, 2-2 FGs
Outlaw: 0 pts, 1 reb, 0 ast, 0-0 FGs
Voskuhl: 0 pts, 2 reb, 1 ast, 0-2 FGs
TOTALS: 112 pts, 49-112 FGs (.438), 8-11 FTs, 53 REB (24 OFF), 22 AST, 8 FL

QUARTER-BY-QUARTER SCORING
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Bulls 23 26 37 22---108
Phoenix 27 23 31 31---112
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Three-point goals: Chicago 5-8 (Deng 2-2, Gordon 2-3, Hinrich 1-2, Nocioni 0-1), Phoenix 6-20 (Johnson 5-8 , Richardson 1-3, Marion 0-3, Nash 0-6). Turnovers: Chicago 15, Phoenix 9.

BULLS RECORD: 6-5

Bullsfan --

Hey. Good work. Did you update the roster yourself . . . or are you using one of alexboom's rosters? Are you playing in the 1999-2000 according to the EA Live calendar? Let us know how these players develop if you're playing a franchise rather than a single season.

Personally, I use my own roster in franchise mode, comprised exclusively of created players & created teams (mostly fictional). A portion of my players are indeed taller and/or weightier versions of actual NBA superstars ("Lamar Phipps" is Kobe; "Philbert Owens" is Shaq; "Tre Brookins" is McGrady; "Rafer Jefferson" is my man Iverson; "Chris Keyes" is J.Kidd; "Sanjo Voppich" is Peja; "Goran Rankovich" is Dirk; "Peter Nile" is Duncan; "Spencer Bishop" is Webb; "Todd Simms" is Toine Walker; "Sean Maxwell" is KG).

Interestingly, the development of my fictional superstar stand-ins has matched that of their real life counterparts for the most part, and the Shaq/Kobe Laker-like Hollywood Galaxy just won the 2001 league championship.

My LeBron-ish "Jarvis Grimsley" was a flop though; rated 75 and coming off of the bench in his fourth or fifth season. I wonder if the fact that I made him a 6'9" 232 lb SG has impacted his development?

mortalsoul3-

I use my own rosters, which I've kept up-to-date with the real NBA ever since I got the game. And yes, I'm just playing a single season instead of a franchise b/c my salaries are all messed up for franchise mode, and I don't like how free agency works (best players who don't re-sign with their original teams sign minimum deals on the best teams in the league- making unfair superstar teams).
Also, It does say "1999-2000 season" on the EA Live Calander.

Why do you use fictional names instead of the real players? Just for fun?

For me, I like simming a franchise every once and awhile, especially because I like the draft- I usually can get a steal if I have a top-15 pick. As far as player progressions go, I always found that the #1 guy is Tracy McGrady- he goes up and up and up, all the way to like a 97 rating or something, and he's averaging like 38 or 40 points per game. Other than him, many players go up a little per year for awhile, like LeBron, D-Wade, Dirk, etc. Some players that were already in the game like Duncan, Shaq, and Garnett, have unchanged ratings for many years- it's just a straight horizontal line the whole time until they start to decline with age.

Finally, I noticed that some players randomly go up or down- guys who are in the area of not-quite-superstars/allstars-but-very-good-players. One time Jamal Crawford went up to like and 85 or 86, and another, he just tanked down to the low 70s in ratings.

The primary reasons I long ago chose to use fictional players & teams:

a) when I purchased NBA Live 99 back while I was still in college, I disliked the poorly-rated "scrub" players in the game, so I substituted my own created players for the David Wingates, Terry Deheres & Corey Becks of the world. Upon purchasing 2000, I transferred those players and most of their ratings to the new game, only to find that the "real" players in that edition unequivacably outperformed my created players; and, further, teams stocked with more created players were doomed to perpetual lottery-level struggles. Attributing this inequality to the ambigous "Clutch" rating and to various biases implicit in the game's programming, I created my very own fictional roster fully comprised of created teams & players -- some of which are based on the real world shells of actual teams/players, yet most of which are completely fabricated.

I left all player "Clutch" ratings to the default 75, hoping that doing so would subvert the game-changing import of that category. Seems to have worked for the most part. I think.

Last edited by mortalsoul3 on Tue Mar 15, 2005 7:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

that's cool, mortalsoul3- the main reason why I stick with the real rosters is because I'm a huge NBA fan, and I follow the league closely.

BTW- So that's what the "Clutch" rating is for? A direct determinant of how well a team will fare in terms of wins and losses? I always wondered about that, because when I'm creating superstar players I need all the create-a-player "points" I can get, and so usually knock down the clutch rating to 50 b/c I never knew what it was for- buzzerbeaters, or playoff time?

But, is this correct- it's a win/loss thing?

I believe so -- and if not "direct," then certainly implicit. To test, change the clutch rating for one player to 85 or 90, leaving the rest of your roster players at 50. Sim a season; I guarantee that player will average astronomical numbers (55pts, 30rbs, 25 asts, such absurd stats) for the season. Change a team's collective/average clutch to 85-90, I wager they'll go undefeated (or close to undefeated) and win the NBA title with ease.

I'm a huge fan of the NBA and its players as well, bullsfan, have been since Bird's Celtics faced my man Moses' Rockets in the finals almost twenty-five years ago; and I love the gameplay in Live 2000 itself. Yet I'm not a big fan of the unrealistic means by which EA reproduces NBA player rosters, or (quick aside) distributes its individual seasonal awards in franchise mode.

Wow, I'll try that out. Now that I think about it, I did notice a couple of times I simmed seasons, I noticed Dwyane Wade and LeBron James averaging 60-something points per game. I was like, what's going on? But now I get it...

That's great that you're a big NBA fan. This is definitely an aside, but I love to talk hoops- who's you favorite player now, and ever, and who do you think is the best player now, and ever?

For me, it's easy-
BEST NOW- Kevin Garnett (LeBron James coming up FAST)
FAVORITE NOW- Dwyane Wade
BEST EVER- Michael Jordan
FAVORITE EVER- tough to pick one- MJ, Dominique Wilkins, Shaq, Larry Bird

Great question(s):

Favorite Now: I grew up a fan of the Philadelphia Sixers, and remain a Sixer fan in my heart even despite my Chicago home. Add that to my appreciation of Allen Iverson's heart, his passion for competition and his sincere belief in himself, and AI is my favorite current player, followed closely by Kevin Garnett.

Best Now: Kobe is the best perimeter player in the game, hands down; Shaq is the most dominant post player in the game; Duncan is the most fundamentally sound pivot I have ever seen. That said, if I'm building a squad in 2005, I start with KG.

Favorite Ever: See above. The Doctor. Followed by Kareem, Magic, Jordan, then Bird.

Best Ever: Jordan was the most individually (and consistently) dominant player I have ever seen. Yet, I take Magic over him as the player around whom I'd construct a championship basketball team. Mike was a better shooter and far better defender, but Earvin was a seamless maestro whose skills would have complimented those of any imaginable collection of basketball talents.

Last edited by mortalsoul3 on Tue Mar 15, 2005 3:58 pm, edited 4 times in total.

Good luck in your continued 2000 season, bullsfan. I look forward to your updates. Peace.

mortalsoul3, your roster full of fictious players and teams look appealing, could you send it to me? And if you want, I can put it on Alexsite, so that you can share it with everyone

Peace to you to, mortalsoul3, thanks for the comments.

And now, for another [rough] game:

GAME 12

CHA 96, CHI 88
Expansion Team Beats Bulls- Bobcats Use Solid Execution & Defense in Win Over Bulls


CHARLOTTE- The expansion Charlotte Bobcats defended their home court impressively against the Bulls, and won to improve their already-very-surprising record to 6-9. Despite being such a young franchise, there already is in place a solid core of smart and savvy players, who execute well and compete hard.
“They just out-hustled and out-muscled us tonight,” Chicago coach Scott Skiles stated. “I’m very impressed with the confidence they play with despite the expectations of losing that are there because they’re an expansion team.”
Center Primoz Brezec scored 21 points and grabbed a game-high 16 rebounds, more than double Eddy Curry’s total of 7. Also, rookie sensation Emeka Okafor played well on both sides of the court, scoring 14 points, with 9 rebounds and 3 blocks.
The Bulls trailed most of the way, and when they tried to spark a comeback in the fourth quarter, they missed all 7 of their attempts from 3-point land.
The two teams’ small forwards did most of the offensive damage, as Luol Deng of the Bulls scored 24 points on 11-18 shooting, and Jason Kapono of the Bobcats had 26 points on 12-22 from the field.
Bulls starting point guard Kirk Hinrich had another off-night, an really was dominated by veteran PG Brevin Knight. Kirk shot 5-17 from the field, and had 5 turnovers, while Knight scored 10 points on 50% shooting (5-10 FGs), to go along with his game-high 14 assists and tough defense.

GAME NOTES

The Bulls fell to 6-6 on the season, and have lost 4 out of their last 5 games. They have started to expose certain weaknesses that teams are now exploiting, particularly: three point shooting, taking care of the basketball, and guard penetration into the paint. Skiles commented on this: “Yeah, teams are definitely keying on some things. With a lot of our guys being primarily jumpshooters offensively, except for Eddy in the middle, other teams have been able to really clamp down on the rebounds, and force turnovers because our bigs aren’t getting many easy baskets. Also, our overall three point shooting has been weak, so the defense isn’t getting stretched there…So there’s some different things that we need to improve on if we’re going to make any noise this season.”

GAME STATS

CHICAGO
Curry: 12 pts, 7 reb, 1 ast, 6-16 FGs
Chandler: 2 pts, 11 reb, 3 ast, 1-5 FGs
Deng: 24 pts, 3 reb, 4 ast, 11-18 FGs
Gordon: 15 pts, 7 reb, 2 ast, 7-19 FGs
Hinrich: 12 pts, 3 reb, 7 ast, 5-17 FGs
Nocioni: 2 pts, 4 reb, 0 ast, 0-1 FGs
Duhon: 2 pts, 0 reb, 3 ast, 1-4 FGs
Davis: 8 pts, 3 reb, 0 ast, 4-9 FGs
Harrington: 6 pts, 7 reb, 3-4 FGs
Piatkowski: 5 pts, 3 reb, 1 ast, 2-3 FGs
Pargo: 0 pts, 1 reb, 1 ast, 0-3 FGs
TOTALS: 40-99 FGs (.404), 6-6 FTs, 49 REB (13 OFF), 22 AST, 12 FL

CHARLOTTE
Brezec: 21 pts, 16 reb, 2 ast, 8-18 FGs
Okafor: 14 pts, 9 reb, 0 ast, 7-13 FGs
Kapono: 26 pts, 8 reb, 0 ast, 12-22 FGs
Wallace: 12 pts, 5 reb, 2 ast, 6-19 FGs
Knight: 10 pts, 2 reb, 14 ast, 5-10 FGs
Rush: 6 pts, 0 reb, 0 ast, 3-6 FGs
Hart: 3 pts, 1 reb, 3 ast, 1-2 FGs
Slay: 2 pts, 1 reb, 1 ast, 0-1 FGs
Ely: 2 pts, 3 reb, 0 ast, 1-4 FGs
Allen: 0 pts, 1 reb, 0 ast, 0-0 FGs
TOTALS: 43-95 FGs (.453), 9-11 FTs, 46 REB (17 OFF), 22 AST, 8 FL

QUARTER-BY-QUARTER SCORING
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Bulls 22 20 22 24---88
Charlotte 22 22 26 26---96
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Three-point goals: Chicago 2-16 (Piatkowski 1-2, Gordon 1-7, Pargo, Duhon 0-1, Deng 0-2, Hinrich 0-3), Charlotte 1-3 (Hart 1-1, Kapono 0-1, Rush 0-1). Turnovers: Chicago 14, Charlotte 10.

BULLS RECORD: 6-6

Alex --

Will do. I'll send it out this weekend. Feel free to use it at your site. Also, to avoid some of the problems with free agent signings in franchise mode, I chose User control for all twenty-nine of my squads, acting as a sort of meta-GM. Makes the offseason and trading even more of a challenge in terms of seeking to maintain balance for each franchise in deals. All trades are pending the "commissioner's"
approval and thus must correspond to salary cap restrictions.


bullsfan --

Sorry about the loss.

Well, it's been 12 games, and my Bulls are barely keeping a .500 record. We've lost some close games, and we've lost some games by teams have much less talent, but just outplayed us. I say:

It's time to make some moves.

This is going to be a very well-thought-out, scientific process. So, first off, let's look at how the major Bulls players have fared so far statistically:

Through 12 games (remember Gordon played only 10 b/c of injury):
Chandler, Tyson: 94 pts (7.8 ppg), 48-108 FGs (44.4%), 114 reb (9.5 rpg), 27 ast (2.3 apg), 33 blk (2.8 bpg), 16 stl (1.3 spg), 20 TO (1.7 tpg)
Curry, Eddy: 212 pts (17.7 ppg), 93-192 FGs (48.4%), 123 reb (10.3 rpg), 28 ast (2.3 apg), 29 blk (2.4 bpg), 9 stl (0.8 spg), 31 TO (2.6 tpg)
Davis, Antonio: 86 pts (7.2 ppg), 38-77 FGs (49.5%), 41 reb (3.4 rpg), 4 ast (0.3 apg), 8 blk (0.7 bpg), 5 stl (0.4 spg), 8 TO (0.7 tpg)
Deng, Luol: 182 pts (15.2 ppg), 77-156 FGs (49.4%), 58 reb (4.8 rpg), 24 ast (2.0 apg), 7 blk (0.6 bpg), 12 stl (1.0 spg), 14 TO (1.2 tpg)
Duhon, Chris: 22 pts (1.8 ppg), 11-36 FGs (30.6%), 4 reb (0.3 rpg), 32 ast (2.7 apg), 1 blk (0.1 bpg), 15 stl (1.3 spg), 15 TO (1.3 tpg)
Gordon, Ben: 170 pts (17.0 ppg), 71-157 FGs (45.2%), 47 reb (4.7 rpg), 38 ast (3.8 apg), 3 blk (0.3 bpg), 12 stl (1.2 spg), 27 TO (2.7 tpg)
Harrington, Orthella: 57 pts (4.8 ppg), 24-55 FGs (43.6%), 46 reb (3.8 rpg), 12 ast (1.0 apg), 3 blk (0.3 bpg), 4 stl (0.3 spg), 11 TO (1.0 tpg)
Hinrich, Kirk: 195 pts (16.3 ppg), 84-211 FGs (39.8%), 30 reb (2.5 rpg), 100 ast (8.3 apg), 6 blk (0.5 bpg), 40 stl (3.3 spg), 43 TO (3.6 tpg)
Nocioni, Andres: 87 pts (7.3 ppg), 36-82 FGs (43.9%), 58 reb (4.8 rpg), 13 ast (1.1 apg), 6 blk (0.5 bpg), 10 stl (0.8 spg), 15 TO (1.3 tpg)
Piatkowski, Eric: 78 pts (6.5 ppg), 29-72 FGs (40.3%), 36 reb (3.0 rpg), 9 ast (0.8 apg), 2 blk (0.2 bpg), 7 stl (0.6 spg), 6 TO (0.5 tpg)

Observations:
Hinrich is really struggling with his shooting and turnovers, but very good defense (steals ) and passing
Tyson Chandler is getting lost in the middle. Offensively, he doesn't do much, and defensively, he's no better than Eddy Curry.
Gordon has been solid offensively, but struggled defensively. Opponents' starting 2 guards are averaging 24.9 ppg in Gordon's 10 games.
Eddy Curry and Kirk Hinrich are the only players to score at least 30 in a game so far- this "breakout" potential is very important for a team.
This team really doesn't have a leader, offensively or defensively.
Deng has quietly played great all season. He's leading the team in 3-point shooting (9-23, 39.1%), and has by far the lowest turnovers for any starter.

I'm open to suggestions- who do you think I should try to trade for???

I'm considering a couple of players:

Desmond Mason: intense defender, very good rebounder, big-time athlete and dunker. Struggles with shooting, passing. I'd have to give up Deng and someone from the bench to get him, or Gordon straight-up I think would work. Not sure I want to do either, though...

Dwyane Wade: Now this guy is a player. Floor leader, very good defender, excellent passer, can play the 1 or the 2, big-time athlete, will dunk on anyone, gets to the free-thow line a lot. Doesn't have three-point range, is turnover-prone, and although he has a good jumper, not a great one like Ben Gordon's.
I'd have to give up a lot to get Wade, probably Gordon + Chandler + someone else (Piatkowski?) for Wade and 2 bench-warmers (Miami doesn't have any roster spots open). But, imagine a backcourt of Hinrich & Wade!

Shaquille O'Neal: Hey, there's no law against dreaming . To get the Big Daddy, Shaq Diseal, The Big Aristotle, etc., I'm guessing it would take Curry, Chandler, and Deng. But, think of the new starting lineup: Shaq, Davis, Nocioni, Gordon, and Hinrich. Not bad...

Manu Ginobili: The Argentian Plastic Man, Manu does it all- good jumper, three pointer, very quick, big-time dunker, good passer, very creative, gets lots of steals. However, he's very turnover prone, and very streaky...

Steve Nash: Upgrade on Kirk Hinrich offensively, downgrade defensively. Nash is the best passer in the game, and is a great shooter, too. Would have to give up Hinrich and Nocioni or Davis, maybe more.

Michael Redd: Basically a bigger Ben Gordon, with a little bit better of a shot. Redd can simply light it up - he can shoot from anywhere on the court with amazing consistency and accuracy. Knocks on him, though, are his defense, only o.k. ballhandling, passing, and doesn't take it to the rim enough. To get Redd, it'd take Gordon and another starter, probably- he's rated very high.

get webber...i have been using him in 2000 he's great.
also try to have andrei AK47......he can block and rebounds....what roster are you using? alexboom's?

i think you have a prob in the post you need more fire power down there...your back court seems super fine though...

actually when i build a team i usually have one good low post player.......a superb 3 pointer of a SF, a slashing SG and a good defensive PG. thats my requirements for my team......ever since i end up coaching and now even playing nba live

bullsfan --

If you're looking to run this squad in franchise mode: 1) Mike Redd, 2) Manu Ginobili, & 3) Desmond Mason would all be great pickups who would afford you/"Skiles" the young, sizable shooter/slasher/scorer your Bulls' 6'4 & under Chicago Housing Authority midnight league backcourt so desperately needs. Ginobili and Mason are adept defenders as well.

If you're trying to win immediately, or are still playing a single season, definitely follow Coolmac's advise. A consistent post scorer is the key to success in Live 2000. Won't guarantee you a championship, as you well know -- only balance (and/or Shaq-KG-Duncan) will guarantee a title -- but a post scorer will get you damn close.

Well, if I were you I wouldn't make any trades so early in the season ... But if you really wanna make one, I'd pick Michael Redd, as it's the most realistic choice. But it would be too bad you loose Ben Gordon for him, as the kid can be a superstar. I'd suggest you to trade some bench players to improve the balance of your team, or to grab a good free agent that could provide you a nice spark from the bench

(and I would really love to see screenshots too )

Well, if I were you I wouldn't make any trades so early in the season ...

Remember I'm playing the shortest season- only 30 games, so I'm more than a third done through the season...

actually when i build a team i usually have one good low post player.......a superb 3 pointer of a SF, a slashing SG and a good defensive PG. thats my requirements for my team

I agree 100% with this, and the Bulls aren't far off. Hinrich is the defensive PG, Deng has been a very good (although not superb) 3 point shooter, and Eddy Curry can score in the post a lot (he had 44 in one game).

I have to make the decision now as to go for Redd or Wade, two opposite players in terms of style. Redd is a shooter, and Wade is a slasher. See, I want this to be a great team, a lineup of Hinrich + Wade + Deng + Davis + Curry may not be great, but I think better than Hinrich + Redd + Deng + Davis + Curry. (I'm thinking I'll trade Gordon + Chandler)

If you're looking to run this squad in franchise mode: 1) Mike Redd, 2) Manu Ginobili, & 3) Desmond Mason would all be great pickups who would afford you/"Skiles" the young, sizable shooter/slasher/scorer your Bulls' 6'4 & under Chicago Housing Authority midnight league backcourt so desperately needs.

I think you mean 6' 2" and under...

I'd suggest you to trade some bench players to improve the balance of your team, or to grab a good free agent that could provide you a nice spark from the bench

I really think that the backcourt of Hinrich-Gordon needs to be shaken up, but I might consider this, too.

If you're trying to win immediately, or are still playing a single season, definitely follow Coolmac's advise. A consistent post scorer is the key to success in Live 2000. Won't guarantee you a championship, as you well know -- only balance (and/or Shaq-KG-Duncan) will guarantee a title -- but a post scorer will get you damn close.

Yeah, I know. I like Eddy Curry in the post, and if I trade Chandler and move Antonio Davis to start at the power forward spot, that'll add another brusier down low who can score. Plus, A.D. has a good mid-range jumper (like a lesser version of Webber).

And I am just playing a single season, everyone, so hopefully I can become a real contender

(and I would really love to see screenshots too )

Actually, the "6'4" and under CHA midnight league" was the name of an intramural league that used to run in the Chi-town projects at late night hours during the '90s. I think the CHA shut it down once they started tearing down Cabrini, Robert Taylor, Henry Horner, etc. . . at least I'm not aware of its continued existence.

Besides, doesn't the Association list Hinrich at 6'4" or is it 6'2"? His arms are so long it's difficult to tell his legitimate height.

Last edited by mortalsoul3 on Fri Mar 18, 2005 3:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

Oh, I didn't know that about the midnight league., ok.

Actually, Hinrich and Gordon are both listed at 6'3", but they always exaggerate, for some reason. Hinrich is probably 6'2", and Gordon looks like 6'0" to me.

There's no way AI is 6'0 tall, either, and I know for a fact that MJ was listed at 6'4 1/2" in the Olympics, but he was 6'6" in the NBA...

AI is 5'10 at best, which renders him all the more amazing in my mind. I've found myself standing next to Jordan on two occassions . . . I'm 6'1 1/2 . . . he's a shade over 6'4, no more. Trust the global gauge always -- the metric system is far more accurate than the archaic pound system even after conversion, and their measurers have no reason to exaggerate.

Hinrich looks 6'2/6'3 . . . I think Kansas listed him at 6'4" or 6'5". Ben Gordon is a hard read on the TV screen, even from seats at the UC . . . I rarely see him standing next to anyone near his height to tell through camparison. I know Connecticut listed him at 6'4". No way he's that height. No way.

Last edited by mortalsoul3 on Sat Mar 19, 2005 1:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

I've found myself standing next to Jordan on two occassions . . .

please explain! when where who what why

Once at the North Beach Club in Lincoln Park . . . some old college friends are in the party promotions and marketing game, right? Jordan popped up at one of their gigs with Toine Walker a few summers back (it was before Mike's return to the Wizards -- either 2000 or 2001). Jordan came in talking smack about bowling. Swear to god, his first words upon entering the back room where we were cooling out were, "which muthaf^cvk*s in here talking bout they know how to play some pool?" Soon, the whole room was packed with the finest females in the joint, and the fellas too, circled around Mike wielding his cue stick at the center table.


Then at Tavern on Rush on the Near North Side, my girl and I were grabbing a meal two summers ago -- during the Cubs playoff run -- and Mike happened to pop up at the table diagonal to us with a crew of guys, none of whom I recognized. He was real quiet that evening, his back propped against the restaurant wall presumably so he could scope everyone coming his way.

No more than 6'4, bullsfan. No doubt.

That sounds like Mike, all right. I'll bet that he was gambling all night at that pool table, and winning, too. It's what he lived for.

I read in ESPN the Magazine when Dan Patrick interviewed Rip Hamilton- this was a few months ago. Patrick asked Rip for his best MJ story (remember, Hamilton was on the Wizards with Jordan that first year, before he got traded to the Pistons for Jerry Stackhouse). Hamilton said that he and Jordan were shooting half-court shots after practice, and betting, of course. $100 per shot, no less! Anyway, Hamilton was up on Jordan about $1,500 dollars and Jordan was pissed. When it was time to go, and coach Doug Collins called for everyone to get on the bus, MJ made the team wait an hour and a half until he got even with Rip. Hamilton ended the memory saying something like "[MJ] will not lose. Ever."

That's pretty crazy, but I couldn't believe that Collins and the team hung around for that long just so MJ and Hamilton could finish their contest. If I was Collins, I don't care if your name is Michael Jordan, who is the biggest star in the world maybe. If I'm the coach, and I say, LET'S GO, and they don't listen, then I'm telling that bus driver to close the doors and GO. How is the rest of the team going to respect you if you get punked by Jordan? I'd rather piss off one player, even if it's Mike, than the other 14 players on the team, any day of the week.

LOL, I love read your Franchise dude