Why does NBA 2K16 Look and Play better than 2K18

jrlocke's post is about custom roster, not sliders.

He says he's can't just drive to the hoop, and that he has to pull off moves, that is what I am contesting. I can use a slower than death center (Like Whiteside) against a quicker big, or even a guard, WITH speed turned down to like 30 and on ball defense and other sliders at 99, and I can still just push forward and get to the hoop the majority of the time, and finish.

I'm stating that the issues with the motion system can't be fixed or even curved greatly with slider tweaks/attribute tweaks, or a custom roster.

Just like in real life strength can play a factor in that so maybe check that out too, although it would vary from player to player and not be a slider fix.

I can do it with weaker players on stronger players as well. I scored like 30 points in a quarter with Frank Nitty just doing straight line drives.

Also, cmon man... we are talking about Whiteside slashing from the perimieter.

Lol. Well if the playoffs showed us anything he is a future hall of famer

Well I guess there is no argument for it being good then.

Lets just all agree it is broken.

I guess DaCrispy is talking about (yours respective) skills (with gamepad) ?

BTW you repeat 300 times the same thing on 2K18 here and on other topics.
So i guess you give your opinion here on 2K18 for 301 times, but not really on 2K16...

In the same time you cant accept critism on other games if you know what i mean

I've admitted the problems with 2K17, and also 2K16. Do you remember any of my old posts in regards to those two games (When they went downhill after patches, and with 2K16 at release?). I literally laid out all the problems with both of those games, and explained my frustrations. I also made it clear that when I reverted back to the December 2016 .exe for 2K17, that the game played great because it was pre patch, and I also praised 2K17 out of the gate for getting it right early (which differed from 2K18).

Also, what does this post have to do with 2K17 or 2K16? We are talking about the motion system in 2K18, the defense in general, and whether moves need to be done or not. The general topic has to do with 2K16 playing better than 2K18, but that's not what is specifically being discussed over these last few posts. I had MAJOR issues with 2K16's heavy weighted players, the fact that the players (Even quick guards) had no burst, no first step at all, and that the overall pace was unrealistic. The brick wall defense also looked worse in 2K16, because of the slow players.

I have been 100% honest with my comments about games, and without bias. Andrew, and others remember my posts on 2K16 and 2K17 (After patches)\, im sure. I'm not being sarcastic with the people in this thread, nor am I attacking anybody, I am discussing the issues with the game with someone who I havn't engaged with in this regard, so I am letting him know that I have found no solution for the broken parts of this motion system. I am not starting trouble in here, and the fact stands about Whiteside getting to the hoop ALL THE TIME from the perimeter. It doesn't matter if I'm using a controller, or keyboard, or joystick, or anything else, or my skill level. It literally just takes running forward with the ball to get the guy on your side and have a great shot at the hoop. And, being able to do that with Whiteside, or Nitty, or anybody else at that volume is game breaking.

Stop accusing me of being biased, it's unfounded. I literally have been honest all along about the issues with the other games.

Here is my post in the NBA 2K16 when it was first released:

Gameplay Issues - Speak up!


Postby Dee4Three on Fri Sep 25, 2015 9:50 am

This is a very important post that I want peoples feelings on.... Please see below.

I took the dive and spent $80 on the MJ edition of 2k16, installed it this morning and played a couple games. While the graphics are improved from 2k15, and the game is just overall visually appealing, the gameplay is flatout broken. This in my opinion is the worst 2k in many many years. The foot planting is all wrong, there are far to many unnecessary animations, I feel like all control has been lost. I cant recall one possession I enjoyed (I have been playing 2k games since NBA Fastbreak 98, yes that was the original 2k made by Visual Concepts without the title). A dozen times during the two games jumpers were taken not looking at the basket, collisions happened for no reason, the jumpshots feel like Live 14 (stiff, glitchy). I have never been more disappointed... One of the most telling points during my time with the game, was when Nick Van Exel went to the line and had Shawn Marions free throw form... That defines lazy. I am not sure how a game is put together (of this magnitude and reputation), with mistakes like that. Jason Williams, Antoine Walker, Sczerbiak etc shots are all completely wrong. I can edit these under edit player, thats fine. But it's the point. It feels like most everything was half done. It's not fair to the loyal fans of this franchise... I and many other people I know dropped either $60 or $80 on this. So much of the contact looks forced, and much of it is completely unnecessary. Players feel like they are running in quicksand, and it feels like players do not differentiate from eachother. A almost retired Alonzo Mornings foot speed going to the hoop was that of a primed Jordan. I play on hall of fame, and can tell you right now adjusting sliders will not fix any of this... zero. Its the mechanics of the game. On basically every drive to the hoop, a defender would transfer unnaturally over to me to impede progress, and my guy would do the most unnatural, rediculous looking out of control shot that would either sail out of bounds or just clank off the backboard, or get blocked, who can tell me that this isn't a problem? Step backs look foolish and are hard to control, you never really know the animation you will get.

2k added many new features (create your own court, enhanced create a player feature, enhanced MYTEAM, added 9 colleges, added more classic teams and more classic players) but if the gameplay is broken, it's crap. Honestly, they need to heavily patch this game, and I dont think patches can fix all these problems. The Phoenix Suns of 04-05 have 6 fakes on them, MANY fakes on all the new classic teams other than the 12-13 Heat. Why put in a classic team with 6 fakes? It means that whenever subs are done, you will have fakes (who look alike btw) on the floor… I could even accept this and mod around it if the gameplay was good. The body types, while better than 2k15, are very odd. Deandre Jordan and many others look like players from the old Sega Genesis Double Dribble game (FAR to big and unproportional). KG looks plump… what? I can handle recycled cyberfaces (some of them are good!), and they did make some improvements on several (I think Iverson is a bit better because they fattened his face a little and gave him his tattoos, Larry Bird looks FAR better, Nowitzki look great). Jordan still looks a little off... but again, I can handle this if the gameplay is good. I also want to point of, I've done modding for 2k14 and 2k15, I know that we will be able to fill these rosters eventually. But again... the modding won't fix the gameplay...

**Other issues: Commentary randomly stopped at the beginning of quarters for some reason...

Positive: I have a R9270x graphics card and a 3.8ghz processor (similar to I5), and I was able to max out the game with no stuttering issues.

Why am I posting this on here? because once again, I truly encourage people on here to NOT buy into the hype, and truly SPEAK UP and let the developers know that you are not happy with the gameplay. If enough of us speak up, they may patch it and make it playable. Anybody who truly knows basketball, and truly knows good gameplay, knows that the issues I mentioned above are very evident, and need to be addressed. 2K developers look at these forums (many 2k modders from the past now work for the company...) it is worth speaking up as I believe they will view these posts.

Oh, and before the classic comment comes out “He’s a Live fan boy”, just stop. I play NBA 2k14 for the PC religiously, and love the 2k series. Lives gameplay has been broken for a very long time, and I will not be buying Live 16.

Please let me know if you have any questions on the new game. Ive played it quite a bit already.
AND AGAIN… SPEAK UP!!!!! Let your voice be heard. I would love for patches to be done to address these issues.

Thanks,

Here is my quote about NBA 2K17 (I started a thread with this, as well as that 2K16 one). This is from February 2017, after they hurt the game with patches.

Beyond Frustrated with NBA 2k17 - Anybody??!

Postby Dee4Three on Tue Feb 14, 2017 3:10 pm

Does anybody else think that all these patches (I play on PC) has crippled the game? When it first came out, it felt mostly different than 2k16, but now it feels very much the same. I am really frustrated with all the body steals/body blocks, Unrealistic forced fouls, strange defensive animations where everybody seems to be losing their guy (Its horrible, the defense is absurd in this game), the unrealistic pace, the unrealistic bumping, protected shots when nobody is really in your space.

I'm pretty fed up, and it has interfered with my modding as well, just because I'm so frustrated with the game.

The gameplay patching elements DO NOT HELP, they are garbage. I am starting to wonder if the 2k dev team (who work on the animations/gameplay) understand the game of basketball fully. You can't possibly see the defense played on any possession and call it realistic, you can't possibly see these wild protected shots and think they are realistic, you can't possibly see all the excessive bumping (animation stopped for like 2 seconds) as realistic, you can't possibly think that after calling a play, it taking like 8-10 seconds for the players to start actually running it is realistic, you cant possibly think the ball yo-yoing in front of a player when his progress is impeded is realistic, you can't possibly think all these easy body steals and body blocks are realistic, you can't possibly think that the CPU double teams that leave people WIDE OPEN for layups all the time is realistic, you can't possibly think the running a 2 on 1 or 3 on 1 fastbreak in this game is realistic (your CPU player will fade out to the three almost every time instead of going in for the layup), you cant possibly think that these slow motion layups/dunks are realistic, you can't possibly think that the deathly slow spin moves and other moves are realistic (NOBODY moves even close to that slow in real life, in fact its impossible), you cant possibly think giving Nick Van Exel Shawn Marions free throw is realistic, You cant possibly think that copying all of Lebrons Signatures to Jr Rider is realistic, you can't possibly think that centers/PF's during a sim season get like 5 assists and 2 steals in 82 games is realistic, you can't possibly think that making the same mistake giving Charles Smiths portrait to Matt Bullard is realistic, you can't possibly think giving Walt Williams Adrian Griffins Portrait is realistic.

The MOST IMPORTANT aspect of any sports game, is the flow. That is flows like real life. The pace. Atleast when playing NBA 2k9, NBA 2k11, NBA 2k13 and NBA 2k14, we had the realistic pace of the NBA. The players looked and played like athletes. Overall, the defense was sound, overall, the players moved up and down the court at a realistic pace. Everything that I have said above ruins THE FLOW of the game. Players celebrating after a made hoop (can't get them out of the animation) for like 5-6 seconds while the player they are defending goes all the way up the court for an easy score (because nobody helps obviously). Ive had this happen to me MANY times, especially at the end of games when a big shot is made (Because the players celebrates after). You call that realistic 2k? If that happens ONCE it can completely ruin a game for the user. Now put that together with all of the other frustrations I mentioned above.

I am actually really hoping NBA LIVE puts out a realistic product for NBA LIVE 18. I am beyond frustrated.

Any 2k dev team (who makes decisions on the gameplay) want to come on here and tell us what the hell is going on? Every single thing I mention above (and some I left out), happen every single game to completely butcher the experience. I doubt someone from 2k DEV would come on the forums to address this. But all of those things about dramatically impact the flow (minus the simming stats issue). I don't want to hear that the system can only do certain things. You have proven in the past the system certainly can make a realistic flow, realistic basketball sim. This is NOT realistic by any means. I take a pull up with CJ McCollum, and my defender is a couple feet off me, and he goes into a protected shot that doesn't even hit rim. WHAT? NBA Players make those shots ALL THE TIME, nvm CJ McCollum being a very good shooter. This happens all the time during games.

I could go on and on. I am hoping others get upset like I am, maybe if enough of us talk about it and complain, a difference can be made. I want to point out, Is stood up for this game when it first came out. The game feels completely broken now.

Again, I stated that when it was released before the patches, the game felt different than 2K16, but that the patches seemed to have crippled the game. Recently, I played the patched version of 2K17, and while it was a bit slower and some of those issues were still present, I still enjoyed it far more than 2K18.

Furthermore, here was my post when 2K17 was first released.

I LOVE THIS GAME - Praise thread

Postby Dee4Three on Sat Sep 17, 2016 9:44 pm

Hi,

Praise thread. I feel like 2k finally got the gameplay right. After 10-15 hours of gameplay, I can honestly say I love this game. Here is my praise:

- Players feel lighter, less foot planting. You can actually rotate a guy on defense without feeling like you are stuck in the mud.
- The acceleration is back (PLEASE DONT TAKE IT OUT ON A PATCH!). You can make a move and actually have a quick first step with players like Iverson/Kobe/Kyrie/Westbrook etc. You can get a first step on a guy and he will be stuck on your side and ride you to the hoop, just like in real life.
- The players speed is well adjusted. I like the way the game flows, the players move up and down the floor nicely.
- Ball movement is faster. No more lobbed, slow passes. I feel like I can swing the ball around the perimeter like in real life.
- The dribbling... at first I was unsure.. but I love it. Its like a mixture of 2k14 and 2k16, which is what was needed. When you put a combo of moves together and break someone down, it feels amazing. I hope no patches change this...
- The spin move (spin and gather by double tapping x on an xbox 360 controller) is back and it feels amazing.... no more colliding with the air, or being stopped by a PG when you are using a bigger man. PLEASE DONT PATCH THIS OUT!
- Post game feels smooth. I feel like my moves have meaning, and nothing is predetermined. One of the things I disliked about NBA 2k16 was predetermined drives/moves/fouls. This game got it right almost 100%
- Graphics - Finally that 2k14 next gen global feel.. Even though the players have the same models, the lighting makes the game feel more alive. I actually enjoy watching replays in NBA 2k17
- Cyberface improvements. David Robinson, Bill Russell, Pete Maravich, Jerry West, Allen Iverson, Dennis Rodman... etc etc... Just wow. Great updates!
- Modding (for PC users). it seems they used the same file structure as last year, and that we will be able to hit the ground running earlier than ever!
- Attributes: editing attributes from the main team screen is awesome, it makes things a lot easier. Also, adding the additional badges like "Mid Range Deadeye" was perfect for players like Garnett/Barkley in their primes.
- New game layout is amazing, I like the lighter more alive look
- Being able to fire and hire coaches, and view coaches like players (Coaches even have badges) in roster editing is awesome. I made Kevin McHale the coach of my legends team.
- The Additional commentary of Aldridge and Webber is great, love the attention to detail
- I like how many adjustments you can make during timeouts

It's not a perfect game. But it is the best next gen 2k yet in my opinion. This is the first time I can say that I will switch, and switch with comfort.

Great job 2k!

So how in the world am I biased? I am using basically the same 2K17 that I praised (In that post directly above), I've stayed true to the fact that I didn't like 2K16 (Said this numerous times), I've stated that the patches hurt the gameplay on 2K17 (As proven above), and I've stated that 2K18 was horrible to me throughout. I have literally been honest, not biased, 100% of the time.


So Sticky, stop making stuff up, and stop calling me biased (That is what you are doing by stating I am leaving out details about other games to crap on 2K18). And, grow up. That sarcasm makes you look like an immature person.

Also, what does this post have to do with 2K17 or2K16?

Check the title

And, grow up. That sarcasm makes you look like an immature person.

From a psycho with whom no debate is possible, I take that for a compliment

Also, what does this post have to do with 2K17 or2K16?

Check the title

And, grow up. That sarcasm makes you look like an immature person.

From a psycho with whom no debate is possible, I take that for a compliment

Not thread, post. The most recent posts were about 2K18's defense, that's what I was talking about. Which I clarified above when I said that it was the most recent posts, not the threads title.

I need to see definitive video proof that the easy drives are curved, or stopped. I have not seen one video that proves that. A couple people have tried, but they are literally not pushing forward into the defender and being stopped, or they push forward slightly and anticipate contact, and they don't move forward. I showed video proof (even with changed sliders/tweaks) that I can do it almost every single drive, with no moves. So nobody has shown me otherwise.

You even admit in the 2K18 defense thread that it's a big problem, and even stated "And the problem still exists" after a patch where you thought it could be fixed. You are literally in here again to come at me, because you literally agree with me that the one on one 2K18 defense is a problem. You stated that for you it's not gamebreaking, but for me it is. So you are literally in here just to be sarcastic and come at me. So please, stop it.

Not for you
i just play and enjoy all 2K releases ; none is perfect but i can switch from 2K9 to 2k18 without complaining over and over again like a child whose toy was broken.
So other opinions interest me 'till i hear from your same the old song.
BTW i even posted here before you

Not for you
i just play and enjoy all 2K releases ; none is perfect but i can switch from 2K9 to 2k18 without complaining over and over again like a child whose toy was broken.
So other opinions interest me 'till i hear from your same the old song.
BTW i even posted here before you

It's not crying about it over and over, in fact I have taken weeks off from talking about it (Check my user dialogue under my name). However, when it presents itself in a topic or discussion, I do speak up more often than not, because it's a real problem that I believe needs to be addressed often. Feedback (Whether it's given once, or 50 times) is vital, and I am not the only person who harped on this. Go look at the defense thread again and see how many people agreed with me about the size of the problem, and the general comments associated with it. It's worth speaking up about, its worth rehashing over, etc. I addressed it on the wishlist, I addressed it on my defense thread (Which has over 32k views, so it served its purpose), and I address it on threads related to gameplay. In the recent past, I havn't seen enough discussion about gameplay, as it's mostly tailored to modding on this site it seems (Maybe not tailored, but that's kind of how it's trended). The gameplay is the most important to me, and I think it needs to be discussed more often.

If someone can come on here and say they feel the gameplay is great In 2K18, I want to know why. And if they say the defense is good, or improved, or great, I want to see proof of that. I have not seen any proof that it's better, and I badly want it to be improved in NBA 2K19.

This post

Re: Why does NBA 2K16 Look and Play better than 2K18

Postby sticky-fingers on Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:34 pm

I guess DaCrispy is talking about (yours respective) skills (with gamepad) ?

BTW you repeat 300 times the same thing on 2K18 here and on other topics.
So i guess you give your opinion here on 2K18 for 301 times, but not really on 2K16...

In the same time you cant accept critism on other games if you know what i mean

Had the purpose of getting under my skin, and coming at me. That was the only purpose of the post. Your earlier post in the thread was fine, this post was to ruffle feathers and has to do with feelings towards me outside of this thread (as well as in it). So again, your purpose for being here and saying that is for one reason, to get under my skin and come at me. It also holds no truth (as I proved above) and have been completely honest with my feedback from day one, and have given negative feedback on 2K16 and 2K17, as well as 2K15. The transition to this gen has not been a great one for 2K gameplay wise overall.

So again, please stop. Stop accusing me of being biased, stop coming into threads and attacking me (Aggressively or passive aggressively), and if you can't just leave me alone all together.

I addressed it on my defense thread (Which has over 32k views, so it served its purpose),

Apparently, it was not enough for you because in many 2k18 thread you repeat the same arguments (no defense / bad lighting / skating).

Can't you understant that your opinion is not THE opinion and that some people can enjoy this game despite its flaws ?
Do you understand what is a forum and a debate ?

And when I come on AOT topic, talking about gameplay, telling that it seems unrealistic when i'm watching, just look how you're over react.

So i guess i can answer to these kind of posts ; it deserves my sacartisc answers.

I addressed it on my defense thread (Which has over 32k views, so it served its purpose),

Apparently, it was not enough for you because in many 2k18 thread you repeat the same arguments (no defense / bad lighting / skating).
Can't you understant that your opinion is not THE opinion and that some people can enjoy this game despite its flaws ?

And when I come on AOT topic, talking about gameplay, telling that it seems unrealistic when i'm watching, just look how you're over react.

So i guess i can answer that these kind of post deserve my sacartisc answers.

No they dont, they don't deserve those answers, they don't deserve the flaming. I've stated the reason why I have talked about it as much as I have, and the reasons I have done it where I have. I have no regrets over that, at all.

You called AOIT shitty, when you havn't even played it. I agreed with you on a couple of the gameplay opinions, but calling the game "shitty" without even putting your hands on it, is along the lines of the people who say "Live is trash" or "looks like PS2" or "that is garbage" or "looks like shit".

My contest was you calling it shitty without even playing it, I didn't contest a couple gameplay points you made, and the developers are working on those gameplay points.

I addressed it on my defense thread (Which has over 32k views, so it served its purpose),

Apparently, it was not enough for you because in many 2k18 thread you repeat the same arguments (no defense / bad lighting / skating).

Can't you understant that your opinion is not THE opinion and that some people can enjoy this game despite its flaws ?
Do you understand what is a forum and a debate ?

So you didnt answer to the first and most important part of my post.

I explained why AOT looks shitty in term of realism. You keep "shitty" and flaming me.

It demonstrates again that no debate is possible with you when we disagree.

I addressed it on my defense thread (Which has over 32k views, so it served its purpose),

Apparently, it was not enough for you because in many 2k18 thread you repeat the same arguments (no defense / bad lighting / skating).

Can't you understant that your opinion is not THE opinion and that some people can enjoy this game despite its flaws ?
Do you understand what is a forum and a debate ?

So you didnt answer to the first and most important part of my post.

I explained why AOT looks shitty in term of realism. You keep "shitty" and flaming me.

It demonstrates again that no debate is possible with you when we disagree.

I said I agreed that the ball bounce and difference in surfaces need to be tweaked!!! I said that, we agreed!

You said the game IS shitty, not that it looked shitty. You gave the entire game a "shitty" marking without even trying the damn game. No chance of "hey, this is a good part of the game" or "this feels good on the sticks" or "the serving system is solid" or "its competitive and fun to play with human opponents" or "the game certainly got some things right, but they need to fix these bugs" nothing. Just "shitty" and negatives without any hands on experience whatsoever.

That is my contest. You called it shitty without knowing that you could adjust the ball speed, game speed on all different surfaces in the settings. Why didn't you know that? Because you havn't played it or looked deeper into it.

Again, it's similar to people who watch a gameplay video of Live 18 and say "its straight trash" or "more trash from EA" or "animations look like shit again" or "PS2 graphics".

The aim of this thread was to point out things that 2K did better in past titles but its turned into another 2K18 hate thread



















OOOOOOOOOF

The aim of this thread was to point out things that 2K did better in past titles but its turned into another 2K18 hate thread

Actually, you specifically mentioned 2K18 in the title, you didn't pose the question "What has 2K done better in past titles". This was specifically stating that 2K16 looked and played better than 2K18.

And, the 2K18 gameplay discussion specifically got started with this comment:

Re: Why does NBA 2K16 Look and Play better than 2K18

Postby jrlocke on Tue Jun 26, 2018 2:40 pm

I think ya'll crazy. 2k18 improved the pace and space game. With the right coach and player settings I love 2k18 gameplay.

Don't get me wrong I love 2k14 but the improvements through 2k18 are vast.

Which he totally had the right to say, because you are comparing 2K16 to 2K18. In which, myself, Shinron and Andrew started talking about why we do not like many aspects of 2K18, and what aspects those were. This entire thread is dedicated to why a past 2K, is better than 2K18. So what exactly are you contesting?

Many of the reasons myself and a few others in this thread discussed are the reasons why we consider 2K18 not as good as previous titles (Including 2K16). So, that's on track. Whats not on track is the side conversations about AO International Tennis, the sarcasm, and the other stuff.

Don't create a thread specifically mentioning 2K18 (in the title) posing a question why a previous title looks and plays better, if you don't expect people to critique the mentioned games in that thread. That makes no sense.

Yeah, mentioning issues and complaints with NBA 2K18 is part and parcel of a topic that compares it unfavourably with an earlier game. The very nature of the topic is critical of NBA 2K18, inviting us to delve into the reasons why we agree (or disagree) with the assertion that NBA 2K16 is better.

I think ya'll crazy. 2k18 improved the pace and space game. With the right coach and player settings I love 2k18

I have to respectfully disagree about what you said about 2K18. The pace feels nothing like how basketball should, and the players skate all over the floor. Why does 2K18 feel worse compared to previous 2K games, you might ask? Because a great majority of the 2K fan base aren't real basketball fans (look at all of these people who just follow bandwagons, and look up stats on basketball-reference just to make themselves look intelligent), and instead play the Playground mode. When a patch comes, does it reflect how the game is played in real life? No; the patches are "fixes" for The Playground, and obliterate how the proper game of basketball should be played.

Sure, 2K17 has its issues such as the double-team at half-court, leaving the attacker wide open, and animations that last an eternity, but at least the AI is a challenge, and I can't just call ISO after ISO, and run in a straight line due to poor defense, and the cheesy blow-by animations to score nearly 95% of the time like in 2K18.

Also, calling us "crazy", isn't the nicest way to get your opinion across.

Completely agree with most of this post.

2K18 has completely broken parts of its motion system, and the pace and space is possibly the most unrealistic in the series dating back to 2K9 up to present. It does not resemble a real basketball game. I can literally call ISOS on every posession, run past the CPU with no moves, and win in blowouts. The AI is not smarter, the defense is not better, and the skating is the icing on the cake.

I can't even play 2K18 for 5 minutes without getting so frustrated that I have to put it down. No settings/sliders fix the skating, one on one defense, or even the help defense. The game is a mess in my opinion.

Loving the look of Live 19 right now, and truly crossing my fingers that 2K19 is a big improvement, as opposed to steps backwards.

Also, I'm really happy that I didn't post Youtube videos of a game that I did not/do not support. I feel really good about that decision.

I acutally made sliders that fixed the defense to make it realistic. No easy blow by's and if you do get past the defender the help defense steps up.

I also jump back to 2K16 some times.
I think I enjoy the player models more on 16 (without mods) but I really enjoy myleague on 2K18.

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