2K18 vs 2K17 gameplay question

I CAN state that it's a step back, and I can give all of my reasons again.....Nobody asked for those silly, unrealistic implementations, not one person.

Once again, i have no problem you stating your displeasure. That is your opinion. But to extrapolate you opinion onto the millions of the userbase is a bit much. How exactly do YOU know that NOBODY in the millions of the millions of the userbase asked for "silly, unrealistic implementations". You have labaled things as silly, unrealistic implementations. Thanks for telling millions what they think. simply put, it is hyperbolic.

NBA 2K17 was a completely finished product, a polished product. 2K18 was released as a finished product, though not finished and all sort of out of whack (even you are stating that the devs are admitting this, that the motion system is out of whack).

I am not sure why you are all worked up. 2k17 was a product (according to my views) that had completed their goals within their dev cycle. You enjoy to gloss over its flaws so i shall quote yourself:

I only play offline, and I prefer NBA 2K17 ten fold. While yes, brick wall defense is a little much, and the game is not without its issues (too many body steal/body blocks, questionable defense by the CPU at times) it has far less gameplay issues than 2K18.

First, you acknowledge the problems within 2k17.... then you state your opinion that 2k17 has less gameplay issues than 2k18. that is your opinion. i have no problem that being your opinion. But why do you extrapolate you opinion to millions of users?

NBA 2K17 was a completely finished product, a polished product. 2K18 was released as a finished product, though not finished and all sort of out of whack (even you are stating that the devs are admitting this, that the motion system is out of whack).

Now, if 2k17 had problems, then how was it a "completely finished product, a polished product"? If it was a finished, polished product, then why is 2k sports making changes to basic systems? Perhaps the mic should drop, they should walk off stage, and leave the crowd stunned with 2k17. But they didn't. They felt like could improve the game. Thus, they keep developing. to paraphrase myself: they reached the goals of the old dev cycle and are starting new goals in a new dev cycle.

It is better to say that 2k17 reached the dev cycle goals and they have new goals that they feel like they can reach. Not sure how you are getting worked up about that.

Exactly, so heres the truth. NBA 2K17 was a completely finished product, a polished product. 2K18 was released as a finished product, though not finished and all sort of out of whack (even you are stating that the devs are admitting this, that the motion system is out of whack)....
So we have a fleshed out, clean 2K17, and a WIP 2K18 that was released.

Glad you have realized that 2k18 is an alpha/beta build. Lots of lots of developers do that, release unfinished work to community. It is called marketing.
here is ubisoft marketing compared to released project: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNter0oEYxc

to quote myself again:

Perhaps gamers shouldn't pre-order. Perhaps they should try a game before purchasing. Perhaps they should be a knowledgable consumer base.

Last point:

So we have a fleshed out, clean 2K17, and a WIP 2K18 that was released. That's what created the gameplay of 2K18 being a step backwards from 2K17, Bongo. you are basically saying that the gameplay took a step back from 2K17 because they are experimenting with a new system (dev cycle).

Again, with any alpha build, a person must wait until development cycle is finished to see if becomes a good thing or a bad thing. I am not basically saying that the gameplay took a step back from 2k17. I SAID THAT 2KSPORTS IS HEADING IN A DIFFERENT DIRECTION WITHIN THIS DEV CYCLE. Again, please stop twisting my words. for the record, i hate 2k17 gameplay (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvxbgSSw2EI) and enjoy the direction that 2k18 is bringing.

Quite a few grandiose claims are kept undiscussed.

It didn't take a "prophet" to realize that you far preferred 2K18 over 2K17

And, nobody is twisting your words Bongo.

I never said it wasn't an alpha/beta build, so acting like I finally admitted that is very misleading. And was a pointless statement.

But, it's pretty clear we have exhausted the conversation. So moving on.

We have not exhausted the conversation until you reply to the above. But, feel free to tuck tail and run. You have the right to do that.

Tuck tail and run? What? That's not what I'm doing at all. And this isn't a competition between you and I.

We did exhaust the alpha/beta build discussion, the dev cycle discussion, we 100% exhausted that. We started going in circles a couple comments ago.

Don't be an asshole, Bongo. The tuck tail and run comment is an asshole comment, we are better than that.

I CAN state that it's a step back, and I can give all of my reasons again.....Nobody asked for those silly, unrealistic implementations, not one person.

Once again, i have no problem you stating your displeasure. That is your opinion. But to extrapolate you opinion onto the millions of the userbase is a bit much. How exactly do YOU know that NOBODY in the millions of the millions of the userbase asked for "silly, unrealistic implementations". You have labaled things as silly, unrealistic implementations. Thanks for telling millions what they think. simply put, it is hyperbolic.

NBA 2K17 was a completely finished product, a polished product. 2K18 was released as a finished product, though not finished and all sort of out of whack (even you are stating that the devs are admitting this, that the motion system is out of whack).

I am not sure why you are all worked up. 2k17 was a product (according to my views) that had completed their goals within their dev cycle. You enjoy to gloss over its flaws so i shall quote yourself:

I only play offline, and I prefer NBA 2K17 ten fold. While yes, brick wall defense is a little much, and the game is not without its issues (too many body steal/body blocks, questionable defense by the CPU at times) it has far less gameplay issues than 2K18.

First, you acknowledge the problems within 2k17.... then you state your opinion that 2k17 has less gameplay issues than 2k18. that is your opinion. i have no problem that being your opinion. But why do you extrapolate you opinion to millions of users?

NBA 2K17 was a completely finished product, a polished product. 2K18 was released as a finished product, though not finished and all sort of out of whack (even you are stating that the devs are admitting this, that the motion system is out of whack).

Now, if 2k17 had problems, then how was it a "completely finished product, a polished product"? If it was a finished, polished product, then why is 2k sports making changes to basic systems? Perhaps the mic should drop, they should walk off stage, and leave the crowd stunned with 2k17. But they didn't. They felt like could improve the game. Thus, they keep developing. to paraphrase myself: they reached the goals of the old dev cycle and are starting new goals in a new dev cycle.

It is better to say that 2k17 reached the dev cycle goals and they have new goals that they feel like they can reach. Not sure how you are getting worked up about that.

Exactly, so heres the truth. NBA 2K17 was a completely finished product, a polished product. 2K18 was released as a finished product, though not finished and all sort of out of whack (even you are stating that the devs are admitting this, that the motion system is out of whack)....
So we have a fleshed out, clean 2K17, and a WIP 2K18 that was released.

Glad you have realized that 2k18 is an alpha/beta build. Lots of lots of developers do that, release unfinished work to community. It is called marketing.
here is ubisoft marketing compared to released project: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNter0oEYxc

to quote myself again:

Perhaps gamers shouldn't pre-order. Perhaps they should try a game before purchasing. Perhaps they should be a knowledgable consumer base.

Last point:

So we have a fleshed out, clean 2K17, and a WIP 2K18 that was released. That's what created the gameplay of 2K18 being a step backwards from 2K17, Bongo. you are basically saying that the gameplay took a step back from 2K17 because they are experimenting with a new system (dev cycle).

Again, with any alpha build, a person must wait until development cycle is finished to see if becomes a good thing or a bad thing. I am not basically saying that the gameplay took a step back from 2k17. I SAID THAT 2KSPORTS IS HEADING IN A DIFFERENT DIRECTION WITHIN THIS DEV CYCLE. Again, please stop twisting my words. for the record, i hate 2k17 gameplay (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvxbgSSw2EI) and enjoy the direction that 2k18 is bringing.

Quite a few grandiose claims are kept undiscussed.

It didn't take a "prophet" to realize that you far preferred 2K18 over 2K17

And, nobody is twisting your words Bongo.

I never said it wasn't an alpha/beta build, so acting like I finally admitted that is very misleading. And was a pointless statement.

But, it's pretty clear we have exhausted the conversation. So moving on.

We have not exhausted the conversation until you reply to the above. But, feel free to tuck tail and run. You have the right to do that.

excuse me, you many things on the table. Feel free to write a thoughtful reply when you have time.

Now, my next post will be on logical fallicies! I shall write it soon! Stay tuned everybody!

Bongo, I did reply to what you said if it was considered relevant. I didn't leave anything on the table.

You are taking this personal, we are talking about NBA 2K, let's keep that in mind.

We can relax. Both of us are not setting a good example on the forum.

I need to do better, so do you.

I'm more so talking about when you guys get so personal about each others opinions, not the gameplay discussion aspect. For some reason these discussions always end with Dee and "X" user making countless posts arguing over which is the better game only for it to get personal. You guys start dissecting everything you're saying quote by quote.... I just don't see the point of it.

I'm more so talking about when you guys get so personal about each others opinions, not the gameplay discussion aspect. For some reason these discussions always end with Dee and "X" user making countless posts arguing over which is the better game only for it to start getting personal. You guys start dissecting everything you're saying quote by quote.... I just don't see the point of it.

I agree with this to a point, and I am always in the middle of these because I critique the game so much.

Agreed that it gets out of hand. I actually sent a PM to Bongo about both of us settling down a little, because I believe it's getting out of hand.

I am equally to blame.

I CAN state that it's a step back, and I can give all of my reasons again.....[CLAIM]Nobody asked for those silly, unrealistic implementations, not one person.

Once again, i have no problem you stating your displeasure. That is your opinion. But to extrapolate you opinion onto the millions of the userbase is a bit much. [QUESTION] How exactly do YOU know that NOBODY in the millions of the millions of the userbase asked for "silly, unrealistic implementations". You have labaled things as silly, unrealistic implementations. Thanks for telling millions what they think. simply put, it is hyperbolic.

[CLAIM]NBA 2K17 was a completely finished product, a polished product. 2K18 was released as a finished product, though not finished and all sort of out of whack (even you are stating that the devs are admitting this, that the motion system is out of whack).

I am not sure why you are all worked up. 2k17 was a product (according to my views) that had completed their goals within their dev cycle. You enjoy to gloss over its flaws so i shall quote yourself:

First, you acknowledge the problems within 2k17.... then you state your opinion that 2k17 has less gameplay issues than 2k18. that is your opinion. i have no problem that being your opinion. [QUESTION] But why do you extrapolate you opinion to millions of users?

[quote="Dee4Three"[CLAIM]]NBA 2K17 was a completely finished product, a polished product. 2K18 was released as a finished product, though not finished and all sort of out of whack (even you are stating that the devs are admitting this, that the motion system is out of whack).[/quote]

[QUESTION]Now, if 2k17 had problems, then how was it a "completely finished product, a polished product"? [QUESTION]If it was a finished, polished product, then why is 2k sports making changes to basic systems? Perhaps the mic should drop, they should walk off stage, and leave the crowd stunned with 2k17. But they didn't. They felt like could improve the game. Thus, they keep developing. to paraphrase myself: they reached the goals of the old dev cycle and are starting new goals in a new dev cycle.

It is better to say that 2k17 reached the dev cycle goals and they have new goals that they feel like they can reach. Not sure how you are getting worked up about that.


Last point:
[quote="Dee4Three wrote:
So we have a fleshed out, clean 2K17, and a WIP 2K18 that was released. That's what created the gameplay of 2K18 being a step backwards from 2K17, Bongo. [CLAIM]you are basically saying that the gameplay took a step back from 2K17 because they are experimenting with a new system (dev cycle).

Please use my words from this thread about how you reached the last particular [CLAIM]. When was i "basically saying that gameplay took a step back from 2k17 because they are experiementing with a new system (dev cycle).

-next post-

[CLAIM]I never said it wasn't an alpha/beta build, so acting like I finally admitted that is very misleading. And was a pointless statement.

Your previous post: please explain:

So we have a fleshed out, clean 2K17, and a WIP 2K18 that was released.

I apologize. i assumed you meant "WIP 2K18" = alpha/beta product. Please explain exactly what a WIP 2K18 means so that i can understand it.

Last Point:

I have marked all your claims and marked all the questions. That was the point in the conversation that YOU ENDED the conversation. So, you can read your CLAIMS and answer the QUESTIONS. If you do respond to all the questions, then you did not "turn tail and run". If you do not continue the conversation, then, YES, you most definitely did "Turn Tail and Run." Admit that Fact and Be Proud of that Fact. Or take the time to answer the questions posed to you before you ended the conversation.

Last edited by bongo88 on Sun Mar 18, 2018 7:31 am, edited 9 times in total.

I'm more so talking about when you guys get so personal about each others opinions, not the gameplay discussion aspect. For some reason these discussions always end with Dee and "X" user making countless posts arguing over which is the better game only for it to get personal. You guys start dissecting everything you're saying quote by quote.... I just don't see the point of it.

I see nothing personal about this. Lots of Claims and Questions are made. Each time a thread about 2k17 vs 2k18 is made, it dissolves into broad generalizations and hyperbolic statements. Usually about the GRANDIOSE PERCEIVED FLAWS of 2k18 while ignoring the LACKING ELEMENTS of 2k17. Nobody has made a truly objective video or post about the flaws of 2k18 compared to the flaws of 2k17 which highlights the many flaws found in both games.

Indeed, as i said before, whether you enjoy or not enjoy a video game is completely subjective. The original poster needs to try both games to see which game he/she prefers.

If this thread stays open i'm going for the Jugular. Pointing out the logical fallacies located within this thread. Hopefully i do not have too many, because i do try to stay unobjectively biased by labeling my own assumptions/beliefs as my own.
I will be pulling most of the definitions and examples from this website: https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/too ... lFallacies
Unfortunately, life got busy and it might be a while until i get to it. But y'all can head to the website and read up on the many fallacies.

Whenever these threads get made, they get polluted with SUBJECTIVE opinions. Nobody has made an unbiased comparison between the flaws of 2k17 and the flaws of 2k18.

Last edited by bongo88 on Sun Mar 18, 2018 7:34 am, edited 2 times in total.

Notice again, i have no problem with the videos that Andrew posted. They are problems with NBA 2k18 that a new user may want to be aware of. If Andrew were to completely answer the original poster question, then he should include some of the problematic behaviors which are found in NBA 2k17. Perhaps andrew ran out of time or got busy. life happens.

In the end, like i've said many times in this thread, the original poster should try both games, either from redbox or Steam refund period (they should read up on steam refund period, not sure if it pertains to all games) and try both games themselves. Whether they personally prefer one game over the other game is completely subjective

The biggest issue in NBA 2K17 is perhaps the Brick Wall defense, which I did mention. Also legacy issues such as canned moments, getting stuck in animations, psychic steals, and so forth. What I highlighted in the videos does actually happen in NBA 2K17 as well, though it feels worse in NBA 2K18, in part because of what feels like a lack of polish, and other shortcomings related to AI, the new motion system, and so forth.

I'd agree if there's an opportunity to try out both games before buying, that would be ideal.

The biggest issue in NBA 2K17 is perhaps the Brick Wall defense, which I did mention. Also legacy issues such as canned moments, getting stuck in animations, psychic steals, and so forth. What I highlighted in the videos does actually happen in NBA 2K17 as well, though it feels worse in NBA 2K18, in part because of what feels like a lack of polish, and other shortcomings related to AI, the new motion system, and so forth.

I'd agree if there's an opportunity to try out both games before buying, that would be ideal.

I completely agree with that as well, if he has the opportunity to try both he should.

100%

Damn you guys really went in on this topic. I feel like it is not worth it to play either of these games. All the reviews seem mediocre to bad. Hopefully 2K19 is THAT game that you cannot resist to buy.

I'm going to make a video that highlights all the problems with this game, it will have commentary. I could have shown about 10 different gameplay issues just from the first quarter of my game last night.

Again, so many gamebreaking issues.

Dee please do that, I am so frustrated with this game. I think I played my last 2k18 game today, I can't do it anymore, after I scored an uncontested layup 3rd time in a row on hall of game I just quit the game and I don't think I am going to play it again, at least for some time.

Damn you guys really went in on this topic. I feel like it is not worth it to play either of these games. All the reviews seem mediocre to bad. Hopefully 2K19 is THAT game that you cannot resist to buy.

Seeing the regression in the game over the past few years and the big gains in gouging people for VC I don't see any turnaround. I'm done with 2k. I didn't buy 18.

Everyday I try and play 2k18. I was Hooked on it for awhile. I keep going back to 2k17 though. I dont Know about any online issues since I only play myleague. But man, 2k17 just seems more smooth/polished. 2k18 has its pros and it does feel more arcadish if you prefer that type of gameplay. Miss a layup....get the rebound, miss the 4 footer....kick it out to a player with a 70 contested 3 attribute and drain the contested 3.

I will say this, 2k18 plays a lot better on the Nintendo Switch I think than the PC. You certainly notice the 30fps, as you feel like you are playing on old generation or xbox360. Still has some of the mentioned problems on here, but it’s decent. The deal breaker (main because I use direct passing all the time) is the freaking Nintendo button layout where X and Y are flip flopped as well as A and B because Nintendo still uses its original button layout. Stupid and can’t change in settings. O well.

Stildo, you have the best signature on NLSC.

Stildo, you have the best signature on NLSC.

Thanks Dee!