The NBA Live series is dead

by **kelpie** on Wed Jul 21, 2004 7:09 pm

As a long time NBA Live fan and - first of all - one who truly loves the game of basketball I must say there has never been a game that really reflects this game. For some reason - 7 years back - I got truly addicted to NBA Live 97 and just loved that game, although it's one of the simplest simulations of basketball I've played... Don't know if each gamer's demand rises faster than the games get developed over years but the only release that brought me somehow back again to the series was NBA Live 2000. Now I'm not gonna write about all the flaws all these versions have, this is just a summary of what we've been given so far. Unfortunately, I've been waiting years and years and there's still no REAL basketball game in sight. EA - in my opinion - got on a wrong track and I just don't expect them to do it any better. But is it even possible in today's gaming world that we just don't have any choice? EA is the only one having at least "playable" basketball games but it's still way too far from what it should be. Also, is it possible for a company like EA to f@#k up year after year and still do that heavy marketing around it? Are their games tested at all before they release it? I don't really think basketball is so tough to be simulated. It's a complex game but I can imagine a few basic principles a quality basketball game should have that EA's products are missing. I lost all my fascination over the years in basketball gaming and realised this is not the way to let my fascination grow. Probably just like number of NBA Live players - I get back to it from time to time, I install the 2000 or 2004 version of the game thinking over and over again it can't be all that bad but I never even finish 1 match and get rid of it again. Now that I just saw the gameplay videos of Live 2005 I can't help myself anymore - now I know this will be the first time I'm not gonna spend my money on this series anymore. Not to say about the slam dunk contest - Gees, I remember a game called NBA Jam some 8 years ago, I think that served this purpose somehow better... What the hell are the EA doing anymore? I want REAL gameplay instead of playing with LeBron and Vince to construct totally insane dunks that can never even be performed in real life. I'd suggest EA to put a stamp on the cover saying: "recommended for kids up to 13 years of age". I'm done here.

by **The Game** on Wed Jul 21, 2004 8:05 pm

well, your always entitled to your opinion.. go to another planet and search for a better basketball game than nba live...

by **deepeej** on Wed Jul 21, 2004 8:33 pm

i played nba live since 1995 on the snes..... since 1998 i play it on the pc and i think nba live is getting better each year (Except 2003). Nba live 2004 is the best, and i think 2005 will be even better.......

The game is all about having fun, i dont care if some things are not the same as the nba.

by **kelpie** on Wed Jul 21, 2004 10:53 pm

Now this a real irony guys - on one hand, probably everybody around NBA Live and in this forum deals with issues like "is this feature gonna be included, will that be added this year?" and so on. One the other hand, you tell me you don't care if some things are missing, it's just all about fun. Every single game "on this planet" is judged by everybody everywhere everytime mostly from the realism point of view. Then why do we have games if they don't try to simulate what we're interested in? If we don't find what we're looking what's it all about? All right, down to the point - NBA is all about showtime and stuff, no problem with that, but how long can I stick with a game that covers the fashion side but has a crappy unbalanced gameplay? I think I'm not looking too old when I say that the joy of such game will be over in a couple of matches.

by **Tony** on Wed Jul 21, 2004 11:20 pm

Paragraphs. Use them.

by **cocobee** on Wed Jul 21, 2004 11:35 pm

Then you sir, need to go to school and get a computer engineeering degree and make your very own "perfect" video game. Remember it has to appeal to the public and it has to have lasting quality. That's if you are making this video game to make money as well. Then, I bet you'll have people like yourself on forums like these bitching about your video game--that you thought was perfect. Point being , nothing's pefect- have fun with what you have. There are about 4 or 5 basketball games to choose from. If NBA Live isn't for you, then play the other 4 titles. But why post on an NBA Live forum? Yes as a community we moan and groan a lot, but we still play the game. I mean i do. I stopped looking for games to be "perfect" a long time ago. Just have fun with what you have and try to make it as real as possible. You want real basketball, go find 9 friends and a park. Buy some jerseys, ask the homeless guy to ref and play real basketball. No sports video game will ever replicate a real sports simulation-for obvious reasons.

My basketball game of choice is Live PC, but every year I give all the other basketball games a try as well.--But, i keep coming back to Live. So to me, NBA live isn't dead.

Your gonna kill yourself looking for "that" perfect basketball game. You give me any basketball video game, and i'll find something wrong with it. Just be happy. :lol:

by **Null17** on Wed Jul 21, 2004 11:38 pm

amen to that cocobee... :lol:

by **Ataraxia** on Thu Jul 22, 2004 12:16 am

correct cocobee (y)

I mean if a games perfect...it wont be a game....I mean nothings PERFECT :roll:

....btw...u cant do insane dunks with bron and VC....EA have said that U can only do dunks that are possible for a human body...of course VC is not human imo :wink:

.....
so why wont u play a Barbie Dolls Dress Up game...im sure u'll complain abt that the tit size is not good enuff in it :lol:

by **regge_bwoy** on Thu Jul 22, 2004 12:22 am

[quote="cocobee"]Then you sir, need to go to school and get a computer engineeering degree and make your very own "perfect" video game. Remember it has to appeal to the public and it has to have lasting quality. That's if you are making this video game to make money as well. Then, I bet you'll have people like yourself on forums like these bitching about your video game--that you thought was perfect. Point being , nothing's pefect- have fun with what you have. There are about 4 or 5 basketball games to choose from. If NBA Live isn't for you, then play the other 4 titles. But why post on an NBA Live forum? Yes as a community we moan and groan a lot, but we still play the game. I mean i do. I stopped looking for games to be "perfect" a long time ago. Just have fun with what you have and try to make it as real as possible. You want real basketball, go find 9 friends and a park. Buy some jerseys, ask the homeless guy to ref and play real basketball. No sports video game will ever replicate a real sports simulation-for obvious reasons.

My basketball game of choice is Live PC, but every year I give all the other basketball games a try as well.--But, i keep coming back to Live. So to me, NBA live isn't dead.

Your gonna kill yourself looking for "that" perfect basketball game. You give me any basketball video game, and i'll find something wrong with it. Just be happy. :lol:[/quote]

i dont think anything more is to be said cocobee covered it

by **Old School Fool** on Thu Jul 22, 2004 2:31 am

LeBron and Vince to construct totally insane dunks that can never even be performed in real life

Excuse me?

They made it a free system, I don't want to fucking do a gay ass Windmill, or see a 360 Performed 100 Times...That shit is like ESPN College Hoops, We don't want that shit...We want it where you can do anything...and 5 Years From Now..>LIVE will be REALISTIC....and you got the shittiest opinion ever...

a 720 is Possible...

Cartwheel is possible...

Off The GLass is possible...

Through the legs is possible...

You being ignorant as possible...

POSSIBLE

by **th3gh05t** on Thu Jul 22, 2004 3:28 am

nba live 1995 was the bomb, didnt like 96 altho it was similar to 95. .

97 was aight... kept me occupied for couple of months. 98 was aight too

live99 kept me busy for the whole year as i was trying to "patch" myself into the game. ahahha and i loved that year. it was one of the better ones i think.

live2000 was the first time i pre-ordered. A HHAAHHA, coz of 99. but it was a little disappointed. hell, i still played it most of the year.

2001 was gay. 2002..... no pc, $&!@_)&$!_@&$!_@&$
2003 was good. except for ALL THOSE DAMN BLOCKS! shit, i have a sg and i average a double double...points AND BLOCKS!*Y~!@$(~!@($^(!&

2004... man.... prohop was a (#*$_!@$, if i wanted to, id prohop every freakin play then shoot or pass then pro hop then pass or shoot, etc.. BOOM i win.

all in all, multiplayer gaming (i have xbox) is fun. in 2003 or 2004, dont matter about the prohops blocks, stupid in-air collision that i when i land i cant do shit, all that crap. . . its the best when u play against 3 other ppl
wait, some of those in-air collisions are REALLY FOULS IN THE REAL GAME!!!!!!

edit: o yea, i cant wait for nbalive2005, preorder again!??! wooooo

by **Gripni** on Thu Jul 22, 2004 10:35 am

If NBA Live was a perfect simulation of the NBA, it would suck. I don't know about you, but I don't like to watch games in the 60s-70s, and it woud be boring as shit to play one. NBA Live doesn't have as many fundamental problems as you think. Name 10 obvious things that everyone notices and are basketball basics that are either not in NBA Live or incorporated completely incorrectly. I can't. I can think of fast breaks, mid-range shots, and in-air collisions.

by **BIG GREEN** on Thu Jul 22, 2004 10:41 am

kelpie wrote:The NBA Live series is dead

Then you mean i've being playing with a corpse and wasting my time at the nlsc all this time?

Anyway..stupid jokes aside...cocobee makes alot of sense.

by **Andre** on Thu Jul 22, 2004 12:23 pm

I can think of 2 things that make Live not realistic:

1. Defensive AI: Is it that hard to have your teamates look at the ball and care about helping you if you lose your man? Is it really that hard? Damn...that really bothers me

2. Players always crashing with each others and keep trying to pass THROUGH another player instead of going around him (I.E. Spacing!!!)
Hopefully they did something about it in live 05.

These 2 things alone make the game so stupid. Other than this..I think the Live series is prettty good...and keeps getting better.

by **Jay-Peso** on Thu Jul 22, 2004 1:08 pm

If you don't like the Live series then why waste your time complaining about it.

Just my opinion :wink:

by **Ruff Ryder** on Thu Jul 22, 2004 1:10 pm

Andre wrote:I can think of 2 things that make Live not realistic:

1. Defensive AI: Is it that hard to have your teamates look at the ball and care about helping you if you lose your man? Is it really that hard? Damn...that really bothers me

2. Players always crashing with each others and keep trying to pass THROUGH another player instead of going around him (I.E. Spacing!!!)
Hopefully they did something about it in live 05.

These 2 things alone make the game so stupid. Other than this..I think the Live series is prettty good...and keeps getting better.

If it's just 2 things, then that isn't too bad.

Go buy ESPN then. It's only $20 this year.

by **twolvezfanfoever** on Thu Jul 22, 2004 1:24 pm

I loved playin NBA Live this whole time.THe only games I didnt like was 2001 and 2002.If they made the game perfect right now.There would be no reason to keep goin wit it.By the time its all said and done,NBA Live will be a perfect game sooner or later.I dont like things about it either.ANd its stuff I know they can easily fix.They just dont do it til like 2 years later.O well.I love wat they doin wit 2005 so far.Even if these dunks arent all realistic,its new and Ill accept it.Long as they adjust in air collisions and have a more in depth franchise,Im straight.And sooner or later invent a create a team.But perfection in NBA Live wont happen til they shut this down completely.

by **Ceasar121** on Fri Jul 23, 2004 3:22 am

Live Dead? Cocobee said it all. If you didn't like 2004 and , you either

A) Are a cricket fan and have little if any interest in basketball...or

B) Enjoy smoking crack as a past time.

2004 addressed several issues. While I believe some things EA should work harder on (Franchise and Free Agent Logic), it is VERY hard to program things. I remember when I was in college last year, I programmed a basketball game with stick figures, 1 on 1 , and it was very difficult in implement all the physics and etc.... Given these guys are pros, but to expect perfection is unrealistic. So if you won't spend you money on Live, because it isn't 'perfect', then stop buying sports, or video games in general. There is, and always will be something to improve on.

As for unrealistic dunks, c'mon! When Isiaiah Rider did the through the legs dunk, we thought that was the extent that dunk would go. Now guys are bouncing balls off the glass , off the floor going through the legs, 360... Guys will always push the limits. It's part of human nature... So the dunk contest sounds great to me.

by **Andre** on Fri Jul 23, 2004 6:36 am

ruffryder8 wrote:
Andre wrote:I can think of 2 things that make Live not realistic:

1. Defensive AI: Is it that hard to have your teamates look at the ball and care about helping you if you lose your man? Is it really that hard? Damn...that really bothers me

2. Players always crashing with each others and keep trying to pass THROUGH another player instead of going around him (I.E. Spacing!!!)
Hopefully they did something about it in live 05.

These 2 things alone make the game so stupid. Other than this..I think the Live series is prettty good...and keeps getting better.

If it's just 2 things, then that isn't too bad.

Go buy ESPN then. It's only $20 this year.

Never gonna happen...Espn sucks.
Just to clear any doubt...I like Live Series...I just mention 2 things 2 that should be easy to fix and would boost realism. But I am a loyal LIVE fan..don't get me wrong..and the LIVE series is not dead, as I said it keeps getting better and better

by **Metsis** on Fri Jul 23, 2004 6:56 am

Well, this thread is one of many... There have always been people saying that Live is awful and they get people to react... Then they just fade away and don't get back to answer all their claims.

Some people bitched about the spacing and passing through guys and helping if a guy gets loose... Well those are all problems, but the fact is that Live 2004 was the first game with 10 man mo capping and that makes it a whole other ball park. Before 2004 we've had one on one mo-capping at best and this brings a whole other element into the game. Spacing issues are mostly due to the fact that it was the first time this was implemented, expect it to be better in Live 2005. Passing through guys, this is another issue, there is a simple solution to this, let the passer make the pass he wants (over the top, direct pass or a bounce pass). I've been on the barricades with this issue for a long time and I haven't heard anything too revolutionary about this yet, but the slam-dunk stuff mentioned that you can do all sorts of passes, so there might be some sort of freestyle passing implemented, but I'm not holding my breath on that... It is coming, but I'm not expecting it in Live 2005... But some of the problem is solved with the spacing, but not all of it. Maybe a rating based pass selection method could be implemented more easily...

Helping when a guy gets free... That's because you can't read the offensive player like you can in real life and thus the AI can lose you quite easily from time to time. There are problems in real life with helping out... If you help out, you leave your guy undefended and a pass to him surely makes for an easy basket. Some say you should help some say that you should never help. If an offensive player looses his guy it's 5 on 4 for a couple of seconds and it's always bad. Maybe there should be a toggle that allows your guys to help and not help... In the strategy section "Helping" on/off...

One thing you guys haven't really touched on is that when defending a guy, you can take his shot off or his drive off. Unless you are faster than your offensive player, you can't do both. This would make it a lot tougher and more real... But this will not be implemented as the offensive game would get a whole lot easier...

But I digress... There are a lot of problems in the game... But it is a game and it is supposed to be entertaining to the hardcore fans and the guys that are just getting their feet wet. And those guys that have just 20-30 minutes to spend with the game from time to time. The sliders make the game quite flexive and thus as good as it can be....

History of Live took a turn during Live 2001, because the creator team was changed to someone that could do the console versions as well. The game got alot worse, but it is getting better. Live 2004 was equal to Live 2000 and I believe that Live 2005 will finally surpass Live 2000 as the best Live there is. The concerns about the releases are well documented in the forums... Baby-steps... The game get a little better every time... Live 2005 will be the best Live ever, if they don't screw it up... But we'll see... Nobody on these threads is saying that "Live is god" and it couldn't be better...

Everybody would like a perfect game, but what your perfect game would be like might be a totally different from the perfect game of someone else. So you will most probably never get your perfect game... So there will always be stuff to b*tch about... Get real, get a life... And get Live, there is nothing better out there...

by **Donatello** on Fri Jul 23, 2004 7:08 am

I just have one thing to ask anyone who says that NBA Live sucks.

Are you a developer and creator of an NBA video game? NO?!?!? Well then you have no right to knock anyone else's work.

EDIT: i didn't read cocobee's comment until just now, he said basically the same thing i just did, but his was better. lol. i just didn't want anyone to think i ripped it from him

by **BMG** on Fri Jul 23, 2004 7:14 am

kelpie wrote:The NBA Live series is dead

LIAR!!!
who told u that?

by **Vi1n5ce** on Fri Jul 23, 2004 3:00 pm

Hehehe....

Any moderator willing to rename the topic to "kelpie is dead"!?...

I mean he probably buried himself in the ground and hide from the embarrassment... :shock:

(I usually consider people buried in the ground as being dead...)

Anyway... 20 years from now... I hope virtual reality will become a common thing and if EA is still around they might as well make a VC version of NBA live... Now, that's perfect...
(Imagine you are Malone in the fourth quarter, 5th game of the 2004 finals... You must be saying "What was I thinking!?")

by **kelpie** on Fri Jul 23, 2004 6:43 pm

Damn, what a discussion. Now you guys tell me - if I didn't name the subject the way I did would it catch so much attention? :wink:

No, seriously. I think most of you overreacted a little. First of all - to put things straight - I never ment I want a PERFECT game. Don't think I'm that stupid. Maybe it got misunderstood because I'm not a native english speaker, who knows. But still I don't expect some of you to talk the way you do. That's what sucks. Although it's good to see how much love you all got for the game. I admit one thing - when I wrote the first message it was controlled by too much negativism and stuff from my side, maybe that's why it looks just like another plain bitching. My aim was to start some kind of discussion concerning the drawbacks of the game - I know there have been loads of them so far but I thought we may think of how much does all that affect our passion from the game. I really don't get it why I lost it that much - I'm sure that if I had Live 2004 some 5-6 years ago I'd probably quit my job because of it. I wouldn't care about things like the AI speed cheat or some player movement animations that lack proper dynamics and all that stuff. Now when the CPU does some 10-15 fastbreaks on me and I know I just can't do shit about it I can't take it no more and send the game to hell. It's just one thing that makes me give up completely. I go nuts thinking what a freaking unbalanced game that is, I can't play that, I want some real basketball. Now that's what I ment - I still believe these are basic attributes of the game EA should focus on. Sure, I accept all the rest - I know it's not just about tweaking the simulation part of the game, the company has to sell it as good as it can. And NBA Live is definitely a major thing, it's not developed by one person and for me it's easy to just say why the hell can't they get simple things like that corrected. So when they introduce now the slam dunk contest it's clear that's an inevitable step for them to push their marketing activities and the entire image of the game. I'm an IT person working a lot around marketing so I know shit quite good. But then again - isn't it again too much about amazing people with things like that when the gameplay's gonna suffer yet again? Maybe some of you are right - maybe the gameplay will be excellent in some 5 years. Maybe it will be much improved even in 2005, we'll see. But from the past experience I'm rather pessimistic and tend to await some major flaws again. And EA is not the best when it comes to fixing and patching things... So my point is that inspite of all the goals EA has - that I understand - there should be given more room to the development of the gameplay itself. They've come very close and captured it nicely but for me it's one-two major flaws that can ruin the entire game. Then I see no motivation in playing the next match when I know I'm gonna experience the same things over and over again. I just want a game where I can focus on the game of basketball and just be able to enjoy each match as if I'm reading a new book. In 2004 I thought I feel the passion again before I discovered in couple of matches that I just can't stand the speed cheat and the bumping of the players when they jump 2 meters from each other even after they just come close to each other. I know there's been a lot of bitching on that too, no wonder why. Guys I hope you won't hate me that much after this one and you're gonna understand it a little better this time. Basically, I know I didn't write nothing new here but it's just a small discussion topic on how well do you all cope with these things. I take it back if I said something really stupid the first time, I know I can't quit my NBA Live passion even if I try hard to do so. Basketball will always be one of my biggest loves, no doubt about it. Just like NBA Live is still the best balling game there is. The only thing that kills it is that I live in a fucked up country where people somehow don't recognize what this game is all about, people here care only about hockey because we are the world champs and everybody got fucked up in their head from that. I'm talking about the heart of Europe - Slovakia. So basketball suffers a lot here, there are very few ways to really enjoy it. But that's another story, thanks guys for all your replies anyway, no matter how good or bad they've been. See ya around.

by **kelpie** on Fri Jul 23, 2004 7:04 pm

One more thing - concerning the upcoming slam dunk competition mode - some of you claim it won't be unrealistic (somebody said because EA said so - well I think we all know about so many things EA said so many times in the past... they have to sell first of all :wink:

). Now what I mean is that when I've seen the slam dunk contest video from XBOX I definitely think some of the dunks were unreal. Of course - some of you may like it a little overrated - but at least I don't. I sure don't want just some in-game dunks, the guys in real life tend to be pretty creative, but when you look at that video please don't tell me it's ok. I don't mind if there's an arcade mode and a simulation mode and the arcade mode will push the boundaries a little beyond reality. But as a simulation I'd like to have dunks that are really possible in real life and the control of the player can still be done in a way that's it's hard to do even a simple windmill. And the top of it all can be for example something like J-Rich did last year with his from the air, between the legs, left hand, backwards flush. And something like this will be possible to do after hours of training with your burned gamepad and still be successful some 1 out of 5 tries. Just make it real and I'm sure after each such effort anybody will be delighted he did something like that. How many of you can do it in real life? So why should it be natural to combine an off the glass, between the legs, 360 + something dunk in one flow? I think I even saw an 720 windmill or something like that. Sorry, but that looks just fucked up to me when I know no one will ever do it. Maybe if he jumps 3 meters high from that trampoline or how it's called...

The NBA Live series is dead

The NBA Live series is dead

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