2012-13 NBA All-Defensive First/Second Team

[NovU]

Novu stop eating LeBrons banana.

Great way to start a conversation once again! Should I give you a hug that you are expecting?

He is a great defender but isn't deserving of a first team.

So tell me about other SFs that truly deserves it more than LeBron and how. Unlike DPOY, the voting is by position. And don't just go saying you just owned me again with that mere stupid sentence even 5 year old can put together. LoL

Chris Paul is a really bad defender who likes to play passing lanes, go for steals, hence screwing up the possesion.

LoLLolol!!! Best I've heard this season. Listen kid. If you are gonna go against everything I say, at least pick a right place and time.

[Mandich]

Stop being so egocentric I don't care about taking shots about you specific, you are unimportant

One guy. Paul George.

I don't want to go against everything you say because it is what you say. Chis Paul is a shitty defender and if you take THAT as an assault on you, frankly you are retarted.

[NovU]

'No No No. This isn't about me being egoistic or you taking shots. Let me put this clearly what this really is about.

One guy. Paul George.

This is what it's all about. Your inability to explain anything rationally or to adapt. 'ONE GUY, PAUL GEORGE'!? Kidding me? Look what spree did in his post. He articulated his views clearly and opened ways to exchange ideas rationally. You? Reminds me of the way 8 year old arguing why his DBz the best cartoon ever.

Chis Paul is a shitty defender... frankly you are retarted.

No No No. What you said about Chris Paul didn't make any sense at all though. Nothing about him indicates he's 'a really bad defender'. That's uber retardation if anyone really thinks so. He doesn't screw up the possession. Never ever. Protecting possession is what he's known best for. On defensive end, he screws up the opponent's possessions if that's what you meant.

[Mandich]

If you watched Indiana games you wouldn't need an explanation. His defensivly perfect body and great IQ make it virtually impossible to score on him when he is locked in. And if sou watched Miami games( which you should given the fact you are a so called diegard fan) you should see lebron isn't always giving his best on the defensive end of the floor.

I don't really care what I remind you of, and I certainly don't have to proveyou that DBZ is the best anime(not cartoon) ever. It's my opinion and has nothing to do with your idiotic basketball statements. It's like someone starts making fun of you because aou are a Wade fan. You like watching him play, your thing. Don't take everything I say so personal dude.

I like how you pull words out of sentences to make kt sound the way you want them to. Nothing bad there. It just proves how childlish you are. Chris Paul is a bad defender, I really don't care what you say, that is ma opinion. Just watch the games. He tends to risk way much then he should just to get nis individual stat line, not caring for the teams success( OH no hes the best lol you are an idiot mandick dbz cunt) . Just stfu and movr on.

It's funny how obsessed you are with my posts. To the point its flat out pathetic. And yes I am taking shots of your basketball knowledge because it is not exsistrnt. Please, stop taking shots at me and start doing it in a basketball way, I love a good srgument, KID

[NovU]

No No No, you are still doing it wrong. I am NOT obssessed with you at all but rather you are. Like I said, I don't really care about stupid things you or whatever the insult you are trying to pull here in this forum. Through our Private Message, it was evident that you have complex issues, not me. So let's keep this meaningless insult to a minimum and stick to the basketball. Kid.

If you watched Indiana games you wouldn't need an explanation. His defensivly perfect body and great IQ make it virtually impossible to score on him when he is locked in. And if sou watched Miami games( which you should given the fact you are a so called diegard fan) you should see lebron isn't always giving his best on the defensive end of the floor.

First of all, I said about Paul George deserving in the class of LBJ if not better, defensively. What you said still doesn't place Paul George in another level that you can rightfully call him a winner over LBJ. I repeat. They both were probably everyone's pick anyways when it comes to a discussion. I already respected/sensed that from Spree's initial comment. You obviously missed the point, kid.

Sigh... Here. Get IT for god's sake this time. You keep missing the point and say stupid things so PLZ GET IT. The Pacers have one of the best defensive anchors in the league with Roy Hibbert. Paul George is the best perimeter defender. Both of them have done amazing and I believe they deserve huge credits. In case you didn't notice, I was the first one to mention their names because everybody was praising how great Gasol/Allen were. But mind you. As much as I love their case, LBJ had his own as well. Unlike you said, he doesn't sleep on defense. There are lots of attributes to consider in defense. Not just 'lock on'(on-ball D) which is the only thing you mentioned. I will expand on this more with Chris Paul.

Chris Paul is a bad defender, I really don't care what you say, that is ma opinion.

Not really. If that's your opinion, you aren't backing it up right so you should have avoided making stupid claims.

Chris Paul rewards your team with 2.4 extra possessions per game(which often leads to easy baskets) with his great instinct and quick hands. That's a given, even basketball idiots know that. He was the best in the league this season in steals and 2nd best in STL%. The Clippers force a lot of TOs and Chris Paul played big part of it.

Now here's why you don't think he isn't good. Because he isn't the best ON-BALL defensive guard in the league. That's obvious. But he is smart. Not just smart. But exceptionally smart as a defensive player that he makes up for it with other defensive elements. He is probably the best at reading screens and cut plays. His exceptional decision making skills often baits opponents players to make mistakes. He rips the ball free time to time from opponent's bigs down low. And he's pretty good at defensive rebounding for a point guard. Add up defensive attributes and Chris Paul indeed belongs to upper class of defensive elites in today's PGs. Is he the clearcut best? Maybe and maybe not. But even if he wasn't, he's not that far off. I've sorta never seen any credible person saying he's a SHITTY DEFENDER.

[shadowgrin]

DBZ is the best anime(not cartoon) ever

Studio Ghibli would like to have a word with you.

[NovU]

Careful there. Insult his anime knowledge, he doesn't mind, he'll prove you wrong. Insult him as a person he'll fucking burn you like he did every time.

[Mandich]

Careful there. Insult his anime knowledge, he doesn't mind, he'll prove you wrong. Insult him as a person he'll fucking burn you like he did every time.

That's my bitch!

[NovU]

I really can't tell if you are really stupid or just acting like one.

[Mandich]

[NovU]

Stop making this thread a trainwreck once again, stupid kid.

Realize what you're doing ffs.

[Mandich]

Stop making this thread a trainwreck once again, stupid kid.

Realize what you're doing ffs.

Yes, I am such a stupid kid, again I started everything and you are so innocent. What I am doing? You have got to be the strangest single living form I have ever encountered online. Such a primadona. You put me in your signature, go back to the insults I've written(which I admited were wrong, well at least the personal ones), and then ask me what I am doing and why I am turning this into a trainwreck.?????????????

And then YOU have the nerves to call ME a kid? I really have no words to say, I am stunned. You are just a pure retardation of a human being(yes this is to you as a poster, your basketball idiotism is already known). The most idiotic thing that ever walked the earth. My world is shattered, I thought human beings were done evolving from monkeys. This is just so sad. Sorry if I have hurten your masculinity, I really can't see any other way you are so bugged with my presence in a topic, so obsessed with everything I say, so eager to put me down, so desperate for another posters aproval of you having the upper hand in this "argument"(can't call it an argument since every single time I try to bring a new topic to the disscussion you purposely go back to the first one). You are just pathetic, pathetic that it hurts.

I did mess up by calling you out the first time, I did act as a dick. But you are just plain retarded.

Say that you aren't obsessed with me- then explain how you hover over the forums just waiting for me to post something, your signature, your constant need to remind me of what I said weeks ago. Are you in love man?

[NovU]

Stop crying, kid. The problem is with YOUR INTENTION. You are here to insult/bitch about me, not for anything else. Look at your last 20 posts. So little of it was topic relevant, maybe like 3% portion of it in total. Rest of them were all silly retarded insult aimed at me(which I never bothered to read anyways). Yet again, you wrote a 200 word essay about me being pathetic. Ok... Ermm.. whatever, joke's on you, silly kid.

For the last time, I REPEAT! I really don't give jack how enormous you know about this sport(but based on what you said so far, your argument was more like 8 year old stuff, smh, nobody here argues like that.). Nobody's comparing us, so you should stop too, for your own sake. I really don't care about your basketball IQ. I am just here for the discussion and simply have fun time. Unlike myself, you seem to be on a life mission to insult me or prove me wrong in any way possible(in which you failed w/ all attempts). LoL

Don't come to this forum only to look for trouble, or get me into shitty argument so you can get my attention. Based on your posts(last 20 or 30) here, it's evident you only came to this forum to get on my nerves and when you did, you resorted to an idiocy because you couldn't handle the trouble you asked for. I repeat. Next time, don't just come here for trouble which you can't handle. Leads to a trainwreck and that's exactly what you did here again, child.

[SoF'nAwesome]

I know about this thing...where two people just don't ever talk to each other. That's pretty much it

[Stress Fracture]

Why can't someone here accept that he's still a kid? Kids these days.

[NovU]

I was just as ignorant and overreacted due to last run in with him not ending too well. I owe Andrew(& forum) an apology especially after that warning. I will handle the situation better next time so nobody gets too upset.

Plz let this thread sink to the bottom now.

[Andrew]

Or, if anyone else has anything to say that's on-topic, by all means do so.

[SoF'nAwesome]

Well, I can't stand the fact that Joel Anthony isn't on the list. And I'm not the only one.

[Stress Fracture]

Give Anthony more minutes. Come on.

[Spree#8]

Chris Paul rewards your team with 2.4 extra possessions per game(which often leads to easy baskets) with his great instinct and quick hands. That's a given, even basketball idiots know that. He was the best in the league this season in steals and 2nd best in STL%. The Clippers force a lot of TOs and Chris Paul played big part of it.

Now here's why you don't think he isn't good. Because he isn't the best ON-BALL defensive guard in the league. That's obvious. But he is smart. Not just smart. But exceptionally smart as a defensive player that he makes up for it with other defensive elements. He is probably the best at reading screens and cut plays. His exceptional decision making skills often baits opponents players to make mistakes. He rips the ball free time to time from opponent's bigs down low. And he's pretty good at defensive rebounding for a point guard. Add up defensive attributes and Chris Paul indeed belongs to upper class of defensive elites in today's PGs. Is he the clearcut best? Maybe and maybe not. But even if he wasn't, he's not that far off. I've sorta never seen any credible person saying he's a SHITTY DEFENDER.

The Clippers' opponents ORtg jumped up by 5.4 points whenever Paul was on the court in this regular season. That's a lot. In the playoffs it was a whooping 15.2 points, but that's a small sample size. If we are to hand out 1st Team All-D selections for steals, Iverson should have been there like 10 times with a couple of DPOTY awards too, you know.

So tell me about other SFs that truly deserves it more than LeBron and how. Unlike DPOY, the voting is by position.

By position, but in a G-G-F-F-C format. So... what about Duncan? Iguodala might be classified as a SG this season, but he made Denver the 11th best defense in the NBA while being undoubtedly the heart of their team defense with only other semi-competent defenders on the team being Koufos and Gallinari. Either way, he should be there, regardless of whether you call him a guard or a forward.

[NovU]

The Clippers' opponents ORtg jumped up by 5.4 points whenever Paul was on the court in this regular season. That's a lot. In the playoffs it was a whooping 15.2 points, but that's a small sample size. If we are to hand out 1st Team All-D selections for steals, Iverson should have been there like 10 times with a couple of DPOTY awards too, you know.

Now that's a discussion feedback. I'm happy to hear from you.

I'm sorry but ORtg? That's a great thing(if up by 5.4) for the team, not a bad thing. Or did you mean DRtg? I have no data regards to that by the way. You need to be more clear.

By position, but in a G-G-F-F-C format. So... what about Duncan? Iguodala might be classified as a SG this season, but he made Denver the 11th best defense in the NBA while being undoubtedly the heart of their team defense with only other semi-competent defenders on the team being Koufos and Gallinari. Either way, he should be there, regardless of whether you call him a guard or a forward.

But I was referring specifically to SF as you can see in the post you quoted. Duncan is better than Ibaka defensively. We're on the same page if that's what you meant.

As for Iggy, you are right about one thing. With 6'10" Gallinari, I also classified him as a SG this season. And I don't believe he belonged to class of Paul George or LeBron James defensively. Kenneth Faried was just as important if not more. You probably still could come up with a case how he belonged to the top class at SG, but you also can't say picking Tony Allen over him is anything near a travesty. Iggy to Avery Bradley? Now that's a whole new discussion because I also think Avery Bradley's reputation played bigger role in him getting honored. Because he missed big chunk of the season like 32 games, and let's also not forget it took more than a couple games to get his defensive mojo back and that lingering injury issue.

[[Q]]

instead of the G-G-F-F-C format (or G-G-F-F-F format for all-star teams) they should do a PG-Swingman-Swingman-Big Man-Big Man lineup instead

[Andrew]

Don't they kind of unofficially do that already, with some of the selections we've seen through the years?

[shadowgrin]

The Clippers' opponents ORtg jumped up by 5.4 points whenever Paul was on the court in this regular season. That's a lot.

I'm sorry but ORtg? That's a great thing(if up by 5.4) for the team, not a bad thing. Or did you mean DRtg? I have no data regards to that by the way. You need to be more clear.

It's hard to be clear when people don't bother to read.
How is it a good thing when your opponent's ORtg jumps up when you're the defending team?

[NovU]

Seems like I missed that one word somehow last nite as skimmin thro the post. My lame excuse is that Was dead tired last nite.

The Clippers' opponents ORtg jumped up by 5.4 points whenever Paul was on the court in this regular season. That's a lot. In the playoffs it was a whooping 15.2 points, but that's a small sample size. If we are to hand out 1st Team All-D selections for steals, Iverson should have been there like 10 times with a couple of DPOTY awards too, you know.

Looking at 82games.com, I can see your point. The Clippers were at their best with him on offensive end with +11.9 ORtg. But at the same time, it's not fair to say that 5.4 differential is entirely Chris Paul's fault. But isn't it a sign where the Clippers put him to use, mostly with units that's stuctured to excel on offense? Does that mean he was terrible on defense individually and for the team? Let's look at simple team/player DRtg if individual number supports that.

when you look at his individual number, it's actually better than team average on the Clippers team who were 8th in league in DRtg(103.6) , which surprisingly is one above the Miami Heat. And the Clippers had only 3 other players who had better numbers than Paul(102) in that department. That's Jordan, and Bledsoe/Odom(who aren't even starters).

Now Chris Paul played often with Green this season, and his DRtg is the team worst 108(but the team excelled in offense). Butler also played often with Paul and his DRtg is ugly 107. Lastly Barne's number is more or less the team average. You get the point.