Slimm44's 2k13 Roster for PC

[slimm44]

please fix the rotations, fix the OKL and other team

Rosters are good, but the rotations need to be fixed on some teams, as well as missing players in FA pool, Micheal Pietrus, Chris-Douglas-Roberts and Dominic McGuire are on the Raptors, Mavs and Hornets. Ex... Sacramento has Brooks starting at PG, and Salmons at SF instead of Thomas and Johnson. I realize these could change though. There are other teams that have similar rotation issues, unless you're going strictly by ratings.

You must have missed this in the post where I spoke of releasing the roster:

"I do not plan on doing any player transactions until the Trade Deadline, so the players assigned to rosters will be as they were on the Opening Day roster."

I am getting ready to upload two new rosters, one with players injured at the beginning of the season in reserve and the other as if there were no injuries at the beginning of the season. The latter is speculatory at best, the former is based off of the average MPG players have received at the beginning of the season to compensate for injuries (IE Chicago and Rose, Dallas and Dirk, Lakers and Nash, etc.). My rotations have nothing to do with ratings and everything to do with trying to mimic the rotations that teams use in real life. The problem is, teams' rotations "trend" more than they stay static so, without daily roster releases (which I will not do), it is incredibly difficult to do in-game.

******************************EDIT***************************:

The first post has been updated to include two version of the Opening Day Roster, one with injuries and one without. All Coaching Profiles are now correct, also.

[Onisak]

So as I understand it you havent yet take into account this years performance when rating players? This will be included in trade deadline roster?

[slimm44]

So as I understand it you havent yet take into account this years performance when rating players? This will be included in trade deadline roster?

Some ratings have been adjusted (Jrue Holiday's passing rating, BJ Mullens' 3PT rating, etc) and ALL shot location tendencies, Take Shot Tendeny, and Touches Tendency accurately reflect this year's stats. I have not adjusted most of the ratings much, but there aren't many players having absolutely breakout years. James Harden is putting up better numbers but it's mainly because he is taking more shots and playing more minutes. Around the All-Star break, I will look through ratings to see which others need to be tweaked.

[Mr Tr0llz]

I want to try your roster but with all of these spreadsheet links I am kind of confused on what it is that you changed in the roster file. am I suppose to look at these spreadsheets and input my own changes? or u just showing the changes that you made?

[slimm44]

I want to try your roster but with all of these spreadsheet links I am kind of confused on what it is that you changed in the roster file. am I suppose to look at these spreadsheets and input my own changes? or u just showing the changes that you made?

Thanks for the heads-up. I rearranged the first post to make it easier to understand. Simply download the roster (or rosters) of your choice, the cyberface pack, and the global of your choice and install in the directories listed. You shouldn't have to edit much of anything.

[Mr Tr0llz]

@ slimm44 thanks for clearing it up.

[Medevenx]

You must have missed this in the post where I spoke of releasing the roster:

"I do not plan on doing any player transactions until the Trade Deadline, so the players assigned to rosters will be as they were on the Opening Day roster."

I am getting ready to upload two new rosters, one with players injured at the beginning of the season in reserve and the other as if there were no injuries at the beginning of the season. The latter is speculatory at best, the former is based off of the average MPG players have received at the beginning of the season to compensate for injuries (IE Chicago and Rose, Dallas and Dirk, Lakers and Nash, etc.). My rotations have nothing to do with ratings and everything to do with trying to mimic the rotations that teams use in real life. The problem is, teams' rotations "trend" more than they stay static so, without daily roster releases (which I will not do), it is incredibly difficult to do in-game.

******************************EDIT***************************:

The first post has been updated to include two version of the Opening Day Roster, one with injuries and one without. All Coaching Profiles are now correct, also.

You can consult my roster for accurate minutes per game for all teams. Or maybe I can send you a .txt file or something (this is for both with injured and without)

[Jhiane]

can we fix the assistant coaches?

[slimm44]

can we fix the assistant coaches?

That will probably come with the "Trade Deadline" Roster. If you want to do it yourself with Leftos' tool, you can. Actually, would you mind updating the Assistant Coaches and Brooklyn's new head coach to both files? That would be one less thing for me to do.

[apollokid]

Hey slimm, thanks for all the work.
A few things about the roster:

1) Why do you have run plays set to 100? The slider is still reversed for PC, so at 0 the AI initiates plays much faster after a rebound. Watching CPU games in coach mode absoulutely confirms this. Now the increased freelancing with run plays at 100 means more freedom but I feel the game engine isn't smart enough to handle this. Just preference though.

2) If I understand coaching sliders correctly, they modify personal tendencies. So with Close and Inside at 0 for all teams we get zero values for most players since shot locations according to hoopdata are below 5.0 for close/inside with most players anyway. I've tried both sliders at 50 and PIP are not out of hand at all.
Also, with attack the basket at 0 wouldn't that mean zero as the value for most players since you've capped drive to the lane already?

3) Now your dribble tendency edits make a lot of sense and the game looks definitely less like NBA Street 2k13, but I feel that simple drives look a bit too forced at times, like when players simply run into the defender for a few seconds which shows the ridiculously bad collision detection in this game.
Moves like the over the top flashy spins don't need to be increased but I feel like lowering simple drive or slightly increasing non-ridiculous moves like cross/hesit/sizeup could make the AI driving game a bit more fluid.
Still, with your edits the game looks a lot better.

4) I get your touches formula but I don't know if it's a bit biased towards ball dominant superstars and a disadvantage for off the ball players.
For example a shooter like Ray Allen will not attempt a shot every time they run a play for him, and with the offense continuing without him going to the line or getting an assist these possessions would not be accounted for with your formula.
It works for a lot of players, but I somehow prefer looking at usage% (which isn't perfect especially for garbage time players) with some subjective scaling according to tiers. Maybe 25-30 for superstars/dominant PGs, 20-25 for 2nd options, 15-20 for guys like Marion getting touches in the flow of the offense and so on.
That's just an idea though because I feel like touches values should be pretty close together because I don't like Durant/Melo putting up 30+ shots every game.

So basically your roster rocks, don't wanna hate on anything. Just my 2 cents.

[skoadam]

did u change tendencies in your last v?

[Uncle Drew]

please fix the rotations, fix the OKL and other team

Rosters are good, but the rotations need to be fixed on some teams, as well as missing players in FA pool, Micheal Pietrus, Chris-Douglas-Roberts and Dominic McGuire are on the Raptors, Mavs and Hornets. Ex... Sacramento has Brooks starting at PG, and Salmons at SF instead of Thomas and Johnson. I realize these could change though. There are other teams that have similar rotation issues, unless you're going strictly by ratings.

You must have missed this in the post where I spoke of releasing the roster:

"I do not plan on doing any player transactions until the Trade Deadline, so the players assigned to rosters will be as they were on the Opening Day roster."

I am getting ready to upload two new rosters, one with players injured at the beginning of the season in reserve and the other as if there were no injuries at the beginning of the season. The latter is speculatory at best, the former is based off of the average MPG players have received at the beginning of the season to compensate for injuries (IE Chicago and Rose, Dallas and Dirk, Lakers and Nash, etc.). My rotations have nothing to do with ratings and everything to do with trying to mimic the rotations that teams use in real life. The problem is, teams' rotations "trend" more than they stay static so, without daily roster releases (which I will not do), it is incredibly difficult to do in-game.

******************************EDIT***************************:

The first post has been updated to include two version of the Opening Day Roster, one with injuries and one without. All Coaching Profiles are now correct, also.

Ok, thx for explaining. I always can make the changes myself if need be.

[Bboy500]

So now that the Nets fired Avery Johnson.....

I assume the playbook will need to be updated later in the year?

[Jhiane]

can we fix the assistant coaches?

That will probably come with the "Trade Deadline" Roster. If you want to do it yourself with Leftos' tool, you can. Actually, would you mind updating the Assistant Coaches and Brooklyn's new head coach to both files? That would be one less thing for me to do.

I just want to get out of Ewing's face on the coaches sideline it should be James Borrego

[slimm44]

Hey slimm, thanks for all the work.
A few things about the roster:

1) Why do you have run plays set to 100? The slider is still reversed for PC, so at 0 the AI initiates plays much faster after a rebound. Watching CPU games in coach mode absoulutely confirms this. Now the increased freelancing with run plays at 100 means more freedom but I feel the game engine isn't smart enough to handle this. Just preference though.

Coincidentally, I was the one at OS that found that. Part of the problem was with the default playbooks, which are horribly broken. With Vannwolfhawk's edits, the gameplay is better, IMO, with the slider at 100. At 0, the teams have more of a tendency to break the play off. At 100, they tend to execute through the entire play. Feel free to change these to whatever you like. It's not so much about my experience as it is about yours.

2) If I understand coaching sliders correctly, they modify personal tendencies. So with Close and Inside at 0 for all teams we get zero values for most players since shot locations according to hoopdata are below 5.0 for close/inside with most players anyway. I've tried both sliders at 50 and PIP are not out of hand at all.
Also, with attack the basket at 0 wouldn't that mean zero as the value for most players since you've capped drive to the lane already?

No offense, but you your understanding of how the tendencies work is flawed. Even with these tendencies at 0, there is still the underlying AI code and logic that must be accounted fore. Having these at 0 does not completely negate the players' tendency to shoot from those locations, it simply reduces how likely a player is to shoot in those locations. I will post some stats from CPU games that I've been running in a playoff recently to show you some in-game results in a bit.

3) Now your dribble tendency edits make a lot of sense and the game looks definitely less like NBA Street 2k13, but I feel that simple drives look a bit too forced at times, like when players simply run into the defender for a few seconds which shows the ridiculously bad collision detection in this game.
Moves like the over the top flashy spins don't need to be increased but I feel like lowering simple drive or slightly increasing non-ridiculous moves like cross/hesit/sizeup could make the AI driving game a bit more fluid.
Still, with your edits the game looks a lot better.

Thank you for the kind words. These tendencies work in a similar fashion to the ones I just mentioned. I personally prefer all of the dribbling sliders to be at 0, but that's just me. There is still a good amount of dribbling moves written into the AI logic to please me.

4) I get your touches formula but I don't know if it's a bit biased towards ball dominant superstars and a disadvantage for off the ball players.
For example a shooter like Ray Allen will not attempt a shot every time they run a play for him, and with the offense continuing without him going to the line or getting an assist these possessions would not be accounted for with your formula.
It works for a lot of players, but I somehow prefer looking at usage% (which isn't perfect especially for garbage time players) with some subjective scaling according to tiers. Maybe 25-30 for superstars/dominant PGs, 20-25 for 2nd options, 15-20 for guys like Marion getting touches in the flow of the offense and so on.
That's just an idea though because I feel like touches values should be pretty close together because I don't like Durant/Melo putting up 30+ shots every game.

With this statement, I can tell you're making an assumption that you haven't observed in gameplay. At least, not in a substantial enough amount of games to have that opinion. One of the things I'm happiest about with this roster is how the players get the "correct" (IMO) amount of touches in a game.

So basically your roster rocks, don't wanna hate on anything. Just my 2 cents.

You can consult my roster for accurate minutes per game for all teams. Or maybe I can send you a .txt file or something (this is for both with injured and without)

Can you PM it to me? I'd like to compare it with the changes I made in the most recent releases. I admire the work you have done in your roster and would like to see what you have.

did u change tendencies in your last v?

I adjusted all Take Shot, Shot Location, and Touches Tendencies. Some teams have had Freelance and some other various tendencies changed, but I still have a little more work to do on them once I get the Hot Spots done. I probably have another day or two left on those.

So now that the Nets fired Avery Johnson.....

I assume the playbook will need to be updated later in the year?

Possibly. Most teams run similar Sets according to Vann's edits. If Carlisimo institutes something pretty unique, such as the Triangle or Princeton, it will need to be changed. I will monitor it and hope that someone with knowledge of past offenses Carlisimo has ran will help me out with them.

[Medevenx]

Can you PM it to me? I'd like to compare it with the changes I made in the most recent releases. I admire the work you have done in your roster and would like to see what you have.

As much as I want to, my next release will have new injury updates so the minutes got updated again and so are the lineups. My roster is more of a current NBA roster so I don't think it would apply here in your Opening Day roster.

[apollokid]

Coincidentally, I was the one at OS that found that. Part of the problem was with the default playbooks, which are horribly broken. With Vannwolfhawk's edits, the gameplay is better, IMO, with the slider at 100. At 0, the teams have more of a tendency to break the play off. At 100, they tend to execute through the entire play. Feel free to change these to whatever you like. It's not so much about my experience as it is about yours.

That's something I've noticed, too. The AI starts a play earlier at 0, but if it breaks down you get all that freelancing nonsense with players not doing anything.
So I understand your idea at 100, on the other hand I see more PG spamming into the paint at 100 before a play is called. You somehow have to pick your poison with this years game.

No offense, but you your understanding of how the tendencies work is flawed. Even with these tendencies at 0, there is still the underlying AI code and logic that must be accounted fore. Having these at 0 does not completely negate the players' tendency to shoot from those locations, it simply reduces how likely a player is to shoot in those locations. I will post some stats from CPU games that I've been running in a playoff recently to show you some in-game results in a bit.

What's your theory on the difference between tendency sliders and coaching sliders? The hardcoded AI aside, if we set everything at 0 these values should not differentiate players anymore, so at least with the individual tendency sliders under game settings my assumption was they alter player tendencies the same way as attribute sliders do, acting as a modifier for the editable player values.
So lowering them globally should result in some player's values being 0 if I choose a really low setting. They will still shoot from those locations, but shooting tendencies would not differentiate players at 0 as much as other tendencies like drive/pass out/pull up and so on.

Maybe I'm completely wrong already, but it comes down to this: Is close/inside/attack at 50 for game sliders and 0 for coaching profiles the same as the other way around? Basically one value at 50 and the other at 0. Are these tendencies the same or do you think there's a difference just looking on their impact on gameplay?

Thank you for the kind words. These tendencies work in a similar fashion to the ones I just mentioned. I personally prefer all of the dribbling sliders to be at 0, but that's just me. There is still a good amount of dribbling moves written into the AI logic to please me.

Your edits definitely work well, especially the whole midrange pull up game looks much better. For example Westbrook actually takes more of those quick jumpers OKC lives and dies by. Ironically though, i think if he played more like 2ks arcade default Westbrook in real life, he would a much better player. If Harden can get 10 FTAs per game, so should he.

With this statement, I can tell you're making an assumption that you haven't observed in gameplay. At least, not in a substantial enough amount of games to have that opinion. One of the things I'm happiest about with this roster is how the players get the "correct" (IMO) amount of touches in a game.


You're right, just an assumption. It was simply based on plays teams run which don't directly result in a FGA/FTA/TO/FT.
Like with Allen still in Boston they ran many screen plays for him where he didn't get open or passed the ball right back to Rondo. So I assumed your formula would not count these touches, whereas an Iso/PnR for a guy like Lebron will more often lead to a shot/assist/Ft, so I somehow thought this could maybe skew the numbers. Now of course you know much more what you're talking about, you've done all the work guys like me are too lazy for
Still, I'm changing touches numbers to a more usage based system mainly because I like fantasy drafts and it's easier to look at random teams for me if touches follow a usage style formula.

I dont have the same sample size as you do considering the time you put into this roster, so do you have any observations about FGAs for superstars in more than the few games I've played/simulated until now? With 2ks rosters Durant/Kobe/Melo will often attempt >30 FGs, which is fine if it doesn't become the norm.
So do FGAs for dominant scorers even out for you in the long run?

[skoadam]

so plays are now 100 in coaching profiles?
slimm got one request can u update your profiles and other stuff in first post? thx in advance

[apollokid]

so plays are now 100 in coaching profiles?
slimm got one request can u update your profiles and other stuff in first post? thx in advance

Yup, run plays=100, inside/close=0 for all teams I think.

[slimm44]

so plays are now 100 in coaching profiles?
slimm got one request can u update your profiles and other stuff in first post? thx in advance

Yup, run plays=100, inside/close=0 for all teams I think.

Correct. I also tweaked the Help D, Defensive Pressure, and Offensive Tempo scales. I'll post the changes in a template when I get a chance.

[joey1128]

hi bro

thank you roster and gameplay

there's Slimm44 with Kyrius Accessories.ROS & WithInjuries.ROS

which one should i use?
what's the different?

thx again

[slimm44]

hi bro

thank you roster and gameplay

there's Slimm44 with Kyrius Accessories.ROS & WithInjuries.ROS

which one should i use?
what's the different?

thx again

The two current rosters are named "With Injuries" and "No Injuries". The only difference between the two is the "With Injuries" roster has players who have missed the majority of the beginnng of the year in reserve while the "No Injuries" rster has all players active and starting , ie Rose with Chicago and Dirk with Dallas.

[mlp111]

Slimm44, what settings file do you recommend with your roster, so that i can have all the jersey (christmas one), will albys settings work with your roster?

[slimm44]

Slimm44, what settings file do you recommend with your roster, so that i can have all the jersey (christmas one), will albys settings work with your roster?

I'm not sure which settings file is with Alby's, so I can't answer that question. If it's the settings file that unlocks everything, it should work. No reason why it shouldn't. It's been over a month since I've played a game as I've been editing and testing through CPU games. As of now, I can't recommend a settings file. I've heard good things about Alby's and MKHarsh's, thouh.

That being said, the newest rosters have been added to the first post. The following aspects have been edited:

- Drive the Lane Tendency
- Pull Up Tendency
- Freelance Tendencies
- Hot Spots (this was a BEAST)

[mlp111]

Slimm44, what settings file do you recommend with your roster, so that i can have all the jersey (christmas one), will albys settings work with your roster?

I'm not sure which settings file is with Alby's, so I can't answer that question. If it's the settings file that unlocks everything, it should work. No reason why it shouldn't. It's been over a month since I've played a game as I've been editing and testing through CPU games. As of now, I can't recommend a settings file. I've heard good things about Alby's and MKHarsh's, thouh.

That being said, the newest rosters have been added to the first post. The following aspects have been edited:

- Drive the Lane Tendency
- Pull Up Tendency
- Freelance Tendencies
- Hot Spots (this was a BEAST)

Awesome bro, will give it a test, look forward to testing it because i really like your edits, gameplay just flows and now that you added Vannwolkhawk's Playbook Edits, i know it will be beast!