2011 NBA Finals: Mavs V. Heat, part deux

Some of us believe players should be allowed to play where they want on the terms they want.

Exactly. Every citizen has the right to work wherever he wants. Why should pro athletes be any different?

you are right. throw away the cap. throw out contracts over 1 year. lets players go where ever they want at the end of each season and who gives a shit about a fair sport. we can have 30 teams but put all the good players on 4 teams. 26 washington generals and 4 globetrotters. i like it

I have never had a problem with all the stars signing with Heat. I always had more of a problem with those lopsided trades for Celtics & Lakers (more so the Lakers) that set both those teams up for titles. But I can't be mad at any of the teams, they just took advantage of other team's bad front offices clearing cap space & rebuilding. We've all done it in fantasy leagues, we can't blame the Heat, C's & Lakes for doing it.

I did however have a problem with The Decision & the commotion/hoopla when all 3 signed, like the Heat had already won the next five titles. That's what basketball fans have a problem with. How it was done, not why it was done.


EDIT: I think another big difference in the Heat's scenario was Lebron left one of the best teams in the league. Garnett & Allen were on terrible teams. I think that plays into fans' perspectives too.

You realize that contracts are going to get shortened again after the lockout because neither the owners nor the players want them. The owners don't want all their stupid signings around for close to a decade and the players want to get paid more.

Your example is hilarious. You realize that 2/3rds of the titles have been won by four franchises right? (And 80+% by just seven franchises. NINE franchises have 92% of ALL Finals appearances.)

The dude I'm happiest for is Jason Kidd. After 17 years, he finally gets a ring with the team that originally drafted him.

That was pretty cool.

As far as the way the Heat came together is concerned, I wouldn't say that it's bad for the league. We'll probably see it happen again at some point but three big stars deciding to sign identical extensions so that they can eventually team up is a rare occurrence. I admit I'm not a huge fan of the idea myself as I enjoy rivalries and watching the best of the best going head-to-head - as interesting as a Bird/Magic tandem would've been, I think a rivalry is much more special and enjoyable to watch - but if that's their choice then so be it, that's their right to make that career decision. As has been discussed many times before, they could've handled it better and probably should've held off on the pomp and circumstance until they actually won a championship, but what's done is done.

Two wins shy of the NBA championship is far from a terrible result for year one of the LeBron/Wade/Bosh era in Miami. I still disagree that the Heat should for a moment consider making any drastic changes, the same as the Lakers have no reason to blow it all up just because they were swept by the eventual champs. They (along with the Bulls and the other top teams in the league this season) should look to make a few changes and eliminate weaknesses, but there's no need to push the panic button.

It's worth noting the CBA will never create parity because neither the owners nor the players have any desire for it. You have to change the season and playoff format if you want it.

We'll probably see it happen again at some point but three big stars deciding to sign identical extensions so that they can eventually team up is a rare occurrence.

It's because of the rookie contract restrictions and length of contracts allowed that it happened. If it hadn't had been this year, it would have been next season plus Melo and co.

Duncan/Hill/McGrady almost happened a decade ago, everyone forgets that because Duncan decided at the last minute to stay and Hill was injured.

Duncan/Hill/McGrady almost happened a decade ago, everyone forgets that because Duncan decided at the last minute to stay and Hill was injured.

Quite true, but that's still ten years apart so it's far from a trend. McGrady hadn't quite broken out yet either, though from memory that first year in Orlando was his breakout season so yeah, pretty much the same situation. What could've been...

I legitimately think that the Heat will win the thing next season. Of course now, I don't care if they do...

Quite true, but that's still ten years apart so it's far from a trend. McGrady hadn't quite broken out yet either, though from memory that first year in Orlando was his breakout season so yeah, pretty much the same situation. What could've been...

There also hasn't been a serious free agent class coming off rookie contracts + extensions since then. (And McGrady was a star already, Orlando recognized it, nobody else and fatally, Toronto didn't. The stats are all still there to see.)

I seem to remember that the Bulls would also be adding Duncan/Hill/McGrady/Eddie Jones (you don't need a point guard with Hill!) to join Brand on the ESPN Bulls boards.

I do want to explore this a bit more actually. Because I do get why everyone hates The Decision and the rally. I get all that, but teams have celebrated great acquisitions like that many times (Shaq to LA sticks out for me), but the media went all in this time because that's what they do now. But I don't think that changes things morally. (And Miami and Riley are the worst at this, so it was expected.)

I admit, I come to game differently from everyone else here. I like the sport (anyone who has live IMed games with me knows...actually hates it) and I like how teams are constructed. I also like the Lakers losing and the Pistons being horrible, but primarily if I have any emotional attachment it is in seeing any stupid narrative die in a fire. Dirk as a choker was one everyone here already knows I hated. Since everyone suddenly realized Dirk is fucking great and an all-time forward that narrative was dead, but this season had a new one from the The Decision and that was that the Heat had somehow done something wrong and thus karma would prevent them from winning and contending. The construction of the team, like with the Celtics a few years ago, fascinated me because of how it spoke to the value of individual players. (And the related implosion of Cleveland.) And like the posts of Oz and Sauru I quoted a while back (to poke fun, newbies and life long Mavericks fans, they know what I'm doing. So does Kobe Bryant, the GOAT.) this entire concept was so weird, assemble three of the best 15 players in the league and the team will falter automatically? It's like that old meme of teams having too much talent to be able to win. It simply didn't make any sense at all.

That doesn't mean I don't see a difference as has been claimed. It's that I don't see how one thing is worse for the game than another, this shit has happened for years. Wilt, Kareem, Marbury, Francis, Ferry.

I do of course see a difference in the construction of a team though. The Heat created three stars through free agency and the Wade/Riley spy game. The Celtics got lucky and worked trades with teams blowing up their franchise to acquire their big three. The Spurs beat everyone to scouting Europeans and got lucky because their hall of famer was injured in the right year to build their big three. The Lakers swapped a potential star for a current star. (Twice in many ways, since Shaq went out for Odom.) The Pistons went from a disaster area to back to back Finals and six straight Conference Finals though picking the scrap heaps and getting lucky in the draft. I don't see any of this as morally different, it's all valid ways to build a winner and all depends on circumstances. If LeBron decides to stay in Cleveland and hope they can at some point build around him, Miami does something different with Bosh and Wade.

Some people think that path is "better" but when his career ends would disparage LeBron (no matter how great he became) because he had no ring. The rest of the team irrelevant.

Actually, one armchair psychoanalysis thing I want to add, that I mentioned months ago after The Decision is that I don't think it went down as the "story" made afterwards. It was, in my opinion, clearly something everyone on that 2004 and 2008 Olympic teams were talking about. Thus Melo and Paul saying similar things on their own. I figure it was some kind of joke "yeah, we should just team up like this" that they slowly all began to take seriously as they got close (Paul, Melo to Conf. Finals, LeBron to both that and Finals, etc.) but never there alone.

And then Wade convinced Bosh to come join him separately. (Maybe even during last season.) And that's when LeBron and the rest of those guys probably took it all seriously. Wade/Riley had convinced one "star" to go to Miami and I think LeBron was convinced this shit was happening so he went. (In on respect, because he loves Wade.) And Melo fled to the Knicks after because Amare was there and he was also convinced this was happening and Paul/Deron/Dwight would be coming next. And they'd battle each other every year like Celtics/Lakers. Melo's problem is that that the rest of this might not happen. You have to be the first guy in these.

Sauru shame on you for saying Pierce and Allen are not HOF w/o a ring. Wtf man? Are you a true Celtic fan?Oh wait nevermind... But still man that's just bad.

Man,I am so glad Dallas finally won it.Dirk and Kidd deserved it for sure,but also my countryman Peja Stojakovic,which makes me really happy.Shame for the Heat though,it really looked like Lebron could win it this time.Even I was so sure that there will be game 7,but this night was really special.

My hatred for Miami goes back years and has nothing to do with LeBron and his 'Decision'. So it was nice seeing Dallas stick it to Pat the Rat.

That's legit, Sauru's just upset someone other than the Celtics got stars and they have to live with declining former stars.

As a Knicks fan you can relate.

Despite the disappointing Finals, this has been one of the best years as a Heat fan. Congratulations to the Mavericks and their fans. You guys are the champions. I hope to see this match up again in next year's Finals though. Bring your Butler healthy then. We will see if this can be repeated!

The better team won, congrats to the Mavs and their fans!

With LeBron off the court for 7.39, the Heat were +14...

He is a real stat whore, after that triple double he said 'I had a triple-double and some people still say I had a bad game.' You can get that in the first quarter, but if you're final 6 minutes of a close game has a statline of 0-2 FG, 2 turnovers, that trip-double doesn't matter at all.

He averaged 18-7-7 in the Finals, but he was the 5th best Miami player in my view. (Wade and Bosh were aggressive; Haslem and Chalmers filled their roles, Chalmers really had it cooking..)

Whenever Wade had it going, Bron just disappeared.

But what's done, is done.

Despite the disappointing Finals, this has been one of the best years as a Heat fan. Congratulations to the Mavericks and their fans. You guys are the champions. I hope to see this match up again in next year's Finals though. Bring your Butler healthy then. We will see if this can be repeated!

If I know one thing, it's this: This Miami team is gonna see the finals not only once, if they stay together. The stars are young, they are tremendously talented and as Dirk said: he's come out of the loss in '06 as a better player. Imagine this would happen to this Miami team. Scary.

I have to say for me personally, I always understood the Thrice coming together. I mean, when you are a big time player and you have the chance to form a trio with two other "stars", then go for it. It rather shows that you take winning over being the number one guy on a team. Both LBJ and CB4 knew they would not win a championship with their former teams because there was basically no help at all for them.

About Wade, you should not forget that he just resigned. So a player resigning with his team ... I don't see any problem with that.

Also, in the end there is a hit you have to take when signing three guys that earn around 16M$: the bench. Dallas had the clear advantage because guys like Eddie House & Juwan Howard aren't number 7/8 rotation players, but rather number 10&11 (big Z & Magloire for the Heat).

So what's the problem? We will see how the Heat will come back, if there is a MLE and if there are some veterans willing to take the pay cut and go with a team that is pretty much marked as the villains.

The Heat are cocky and I don't like them either. But it's rather just the persons and not the decisions etc. You should definitely separate the individual players' character from the simple roster decisions etc.



btw for the Bron haters: Where has D-Wade been in game 6? I thought he played pretty bad, had some costly turnovers and did not attack the rim particularly well.

if there is a MLE

Nope.

How many noticeably mediocre playoff series has LeBron experienced? Two? Three? And I'm not even sure if whatever he put up v Boston overall (i.e. not just the Game 5) was particularly horrible. From 92 games, where otherwise he was brillaint.

Now that Dirk's finally pissed on the remnants of the retarded "not a winner" label, seems like LeBron has replaced him as the "guy who's apparently bad at the playoffs but really is very good".

I guess I'll sorta-root for LeBron to dispel the stupidity by constantly putting up 35/15/15 lines for the next few seasons...only for the Heat to lose every season due to completely freakish occurrences, like Gary Payton coming from the stands to score 40 points with a rejuvenated Seattle franchise featuring Hershey Hawkins, Peja Drobnjak, the ghost of Dennis Johnson and Downtown Freddie Brown.

How many noticeably mediocre playoff series has LeBron experienced? Two? Three?

...

Now that Dirk's finally pissed on the remnants of the retarded "not a winner" label, seems like LeBron has replaced him as the "guy who's apparently bad at the playoffs but really is very good".

Thank God nobody asks this about Kobe.

Saying LeBron is bad in the playoff is not quite right, considering how he played in the Boston and Chicago series. More like "A guy who is great overall but bad at crunch time."

Great Job Mavericks, you really deserved it. And all you Mavs fans

Heat just couldn't execute in crunch time. Don't put it all on Lebron. They'll improve offensive execution.

Surely LeBron will learn a post game and off-the-ball movement soon...

A post game really would be great for him because he can backdown almost anybody. Just add some moves like a hook and a up&under or maybe a spin around the defender (he did that vs Marion in game 6) and his game will be much improved.