2011 NBA MVP?

The Cavaliers are unquestionably awful without LeBron - Varejao and Jamison being out with injuries doesn't help matters either - but that fact doesn't make him the league's most valuable player this season. It shows how valuable he was to the Cavaliers and how the team was built around him, yes, but it doesn't speak for his importance/performance with the Heat this season, which in broad terms is what the MVP award is supposedly all about. The Cavs' performance without him is irrelevant.

At least Minny's got a few decent players in Wesley Johnson, Martell Webster, and Michael Beasley. Luke Ridnour isn't bad either.

Then why do they stink so bad? Are you suggesting it's Love's fault?

They just got wrecked by the other 17 win team after Love left the game early.

There's no way LeBron is worth 35 wins. But I have zero problem saying LeBron is worth like 15 wins and Love is worth 10.

I honestly have no idea what your argument is here. What are you trying to say about Love?

Koberulz made a sound argument as to what MVP means, the player most responsible for his teams wins. I don't necessarily buy that Neil's exercise is properly illustrative of this but it's something to consider.

And I would think before declaring who the MVP is everyone has to answer the unspoken question that koberulz has offered. Everyone seems to rush to declare it, but nobody ever seems to define it.

When can we get back to the players voting for it?

I don't necessarily buy that Neil's exercise is properly illustrative of this

Why not? What do you think would be?

You'll have to first make the argument WHY I should buy what Neil put forward regarding WS and how it relates to a MVP declaration.

Kobe Bryant - Because he's Kobe. Kobe could be FIFTY-three years old and will still jack up enough shots that somehow go in to be considered for MVP.

I'd pick Rose or Dwight.

Kobe Bryant - Because he's Kobe. Kobe could be FIFTY-three years old and will still jack up enough shots that somehow go in to be considered for MVP.

So what if he's Kobe?

I'd go for Rose. LeBron has been a sucker this year.

You'll have to first make the argument WHY I should buy what Neil put forward regarding WS

Neil didn't really put anything forward, it was just a data dump. It would seem to me, though, that the player with the highest WS% is the one who contributes most to his team's victories. I don't know this stuff nearly as well as you, though, so I could certainly be wrong.

and how it relates to a MVP declaration.

Didn't I already make that argument?

So your contention is that WS share is the definitive measure of MVP? Why?

And you claim Neil offered up merely a data dump, and then you go and expand on some more explanatory aspect to it. Which is it? Data dump, or something relevant?

Are you just offering up the idea or are you trying to make a claim?

Do you want to make the case for Love? Why don't you?

So your contention is that WS share is the definitive measure of MVP? Why?

No.

And you claim Neil offered up merely a data dump, and then you go and expand on some more explanatory aspect to it. Which is it? Data dump, or something relevant?

Neil wasn't trying to make a point by posting those statistics, but it certainly doesn't mean others can't.

Are you just offering up the idea or are you trying to make a claim?

I was really just using these statistics to make a point about the ridiculously vague criteria for MVP. Most people, when they think MVP, wouldn't think Kevin Love (and I certainly don't), but statistically speaking and adhering to the strict definition of 'valuable', I don't see how you could make a case for anyone else given the data in the BBR post I linked to. Unless I'm missing something.

Do you want to make the case for Love? Why don't you?

Not particularly. If it actually were an MVP award, perhaps I might, but it really is more of a 'best player in the league' award. I'd certainly rather it be seen as the latter, as the former allows far too much teammate influence for an individual award to really mean anything.

All in all, I'd rather leave it to those who know more about these things than I do, but I'd certainly like if everyone could get together and decide what "MVP" actually means.

I don't like Kevin Love. That guy is a stat padder of the highest regard. As soon as he realizes his man isn't going to drive, he'll turn and run towards the hoop to get in position for a rebound instead of defending the shot. And does this constantly. Offensively he is amazing but he also cracks the shits whenever he doesn't get the ball.

Derrick Rose.

I don't like Kevin Love. That guy is a stat padder of the highest regard. As soon as he realizes his man isn't going to drive, he'll turn and run towards the hoop to get in position for a rebound instead of defending the shot. And does this constantly.

Why do you hate how I play as a big in My Player? 20 RPG averages just don't happen by themselves!

it will be derrick rose. the bulls are winning more than they have ever won since jordan. derrick rose is playing better and is the undisputed leader of his team.

with the wolves record as it is, if you stop love, you probably win the game. if you don't stop love, you will still probably win the game.

Kwame Brown.

This is what we call trying too hard.

I picked Rose. If "Fast Don't Lie" is a valid reason.

This is what we call trying too hard.

There you go.