Hip Hop Stars Speak Out About Eminem

[Ruff Ryder]

[Old School Fool]

http://pub175.ezboard.com/fniketalkfrm18.showMessage?topicID=14523.topic

Now all the Rappers need to Shut Up

[Dramacydal]

a guys from his neighborhood divulges how this tape finally made it to the public ears and why he thinks the world needed to hear the real slim shady
the guy got the tape from eminems first DJ who has been dropped when eminem blew and hes had the tape for a year and a half

Source:so what made you come forward now? it must feel like a burde has been listed
Uknown Caster: i wanted to expose the truth and let the people know he's fake. i'm glad i came forward and i hope people take a stand against this kat. i'd just like to see the truth come out. i know he;s not doing nothing for nobody around detroit, except for a few people. i don't care if he sells millions of records, he still a racist mofucka. it has to be exxxposed

SourcE: there was an article in Vibe mag 2002, where eminem was quoted as saying he would never used the N'word in his songs and said "there's some things i just don't do," what do you say say to a comment like that?
-U.C: he's a hypocrite, a closet racist. hes got racist feelings. I mean people can change, but in his case, i don't know. hey, if a pedophile changed his ways, would you still want him around your kids? not me!

Source: when you heard the tape, did you know it was eminem rapping?
-UC: oh yeah, no question. I don't question that at all. i wouldn't come with some fradulent shit. and he claimes he was 16 then i don't think so

also theres question that em was 21 and never had a black girl.. guys who knew him have never seen him with any black girl then and he never mentioned that, and this tape is considered a decade ago, which makes him way more tha 16
but anyway, i dont comment on that since some guys are that much into eminem here. and dont even try to get at me cause i didnt write that interview, its jus what i found and i thought id post this here since its all about this topic. ive got nothin to do with it and i didnt even say my opinion on this so hate on the source or that guy...

[idiot]

hey drama.... did you click on the link osf posted before you posted your stuff?

http://pub175.ezboard.com/fniketalkfrm18.showMessage?topicID=14523.topic

Now all the Rappers need to Shut Up

[Robby]

Well I've been reading this thread for quite some time and I didn't want to say this but I will now since some of the posts are getting kind of pathetic.
All of you guys need to realize that all these so called "artists" are just singers and that's it. All the people trying to post in ebonics are looking like idiots and to me you guys are in the exact same class with all the pre-teen girls who were obsessed with boy bands like "New Kids on the Block." It's okay to like the music but acting like a so called "gangsta" is just like all those 30 years olds who feel one with the Force. Please, act like yourself and stop obsessing over these musicians.

[Dramacydal]

sorry but what has our behaviour to do with discussing eminem and this tape?

[Robby]

The fact that you're even discussing this meaningless topic goes along with what I said. Who cares what the guy's feelings are about a particular group of people? Does that make any of his other songs any different? Not in my opinion. If you like listening to a particular singer's stuff, then go right ahead but obsessing over his mindset or his fraudulent personality seems kind of useless to me. I've alwawys listened to music and never really cared about who sang the song or what his/her opinions are. I just enjoy the music and I would hope that you guys do the same.

[EGarrett]

The fact that you're even discussing this meaningless topic goes along with what I said.

Considering that Eminem is doing a type of music commonly associated with black people and that a significant portion of his audience is black... his popularity will most likely vanish if he's revealed to be a racist. If a country music superstar was revealed to hate "hicks"...it would be a major issue to country music fans also. Far...far from meaningless.

Who cares what the guy's feelings are about a particular group of people?

That group of people...if they're making him rich.

Does that make any of his other songs any different? Not in my opinion. If you like listening to a particular singer's stuff, then go right ahead but obsessing over his mindset or his fraudulent personality seems kind of useless to me.

If someone insults you....you're not going to want to do business with them. Likewise...a musician has to respect his fanbase to maintain their support.

[Robby]

Considering that Eminem is doing a type of music commonly associated with black people and that a significant portion of his audience is black... his popularity will most likely vanish if he's revealed to be a racist. If a country music superstar was revealed to hate "hicks"...it would be a major issue to country music fans also. Far...far from meaningless.

But that doesn't change any of his songs. If you used to love his music, then all of a sudden you hate the songs because of his character. I guess my view is a bit different because I just like listen to different types of songs, without any concern for who sang the song. That's why I don't watch any Music Videos or stuff like that, because if a song is good, then I'll listen to it no matter who the creator is.

That group of people...if they're making him rich.

So you deny yourself the fun of listening to "good music" (according to one's tastes) just because the singer isn't what he claims to be.

If someone insults you....you're not going to want to do business with them. Likewise...a musician has to respect his fanbase to maintain their support.

Good point. But please tell me do all rappers respect other minorties (not just in terms of race) and disempowered groups? Women are not only treated like like objects, but also objectified to an absurd degree. However many women do listen to those types of songs. So many other smaller social groups are bashed in the songs, but they still listen to the stuff.

Look EG, my whole point is that a lot of people, not just on this forum, need to realize that rap is just another type of music, nothing more nothing less. If you like listening to it, then go right ahead. But once you start acting "black" and/or feeling "black" like our good friend Drama, then I feel you're kind of in the same boat as obsessed Star Trek fans and all those pre-teen girls obsessed with boy-bands. What gets even more pathetic is what went in the "How to Net Thug" thread and people like Old School Fool make their "insightful" posts.

[Wall St. Peon]

Yeah, I'm going to have to go with Robby on this one. I like every type of music...Nickelback's playing right now on my computer, I just saw the new Missy Elliot video (gotta love the Kill Bill "Pussy Wagon"), and I listen to Ben Folds right after Eminem and Marilyn Manson. I listen to Korn and Slipknot (Iowa represent ) and Marilyn Manson and all the bands that supposed Satanists listen to, or "fucked up" people listen to, or whatever you want to say...I'm white, but I listen to every kind of rap - it just has to be good, or at least have good enough rhymes. It's just music...Slipknot caters to the complete opposite of me, yet I'm a fan of their music. I could care less about the bands values, and their "values" are probably bullshit anyway (Marilyn Manson is a total act...he had his band, "Marilyn Manson and the Spooky Kids," marketed before they existed, and then his show consited of a stage show and not much music). If Eminem's racist, whatever - so is Toby Keith, but he's racist towards Arabs, and that's pretty obvious in his ignorant song encouraging war...

Robby makes a great point about that..."Eminem's a racist" is at the tip of Mack 10 or whoever's tongue, and then he talks about fucking bitches, punching hos, flipping switches, and "bustin'" noses...you can't yell "I'm being descriminated against!" and then demean another group of people. It's hypocritical...if they're actually being descriminated againts, fine. If Eminem says "nigger" once in how many years of rapping in a free style...well, you know what? It happens. I think EG said it...rap is predominantly black. How often is "nigger" said in the average rap song?

If you hear a catchphrase or a word often enough, it becomes engrained in your vocabulary and is used. That's proven, and Eminem is in an industry that uses the word "nigger" on a consistant basis. He was freestyling...that doesn't excuse him for using the word, but it doesn't make him racist, either. He didn't write the rap, it just came out. It's like saying "Goddammit" in a church when someone drops a hymnal on your foot...it happens, it slips out. It's technically wrong, and many people will see it as wrong, but odds are, you didn't mean it. I highly doubt Eminem is racist; think about this logically: if he was racist, would it take six, seven, eight years for people to find out about this?

I think those artists are jealous that Eminem's making more money than them...his records are selling better, and he's far more talented than any of them. He fucks up once in a predominantly black "profession," and it's called racism. Funny thing is that it's usually the other way around in society...

Well, my friends are back, so it's time for a movie. I have more to say, and I'm a little tipsy, so if any of that is confusing, I'll clear it up later. I don't agree with Eminem saying "nigger," but I don't think he should be boycotted for something others in his profession do on a consistant basis. It's hypocritical, considering their other verbal tirades towards people...

[Dramacydal]

a lot of people, not just on this forum, need to realize that rap is just another type of music, nothing more nothing less. If you like listening to it, then go right ahead. But once you start acting "black" and/or feeling "black" like our good friend Drama

so we have different opinions. i dont only care about the music, rap is a part of my life and if i dont like a guy even tho his music is good i wont listen to his stuff since rap is ALL about characters, personalities and opinions. look, if he em has a good song (this is jus an example) and you think youre feelin it but then you find out that the song and the rapper are fake, that the song isnt what the artist really stands for then i dont feel the song no more.
the 2nd thing is what the hell makes you think im feelin black at all? i aint feelin black, how can i feel black bein white? get it straight man, im white but i love rap to death and i like alotta black artists and i really feel those artists. does that mean im feelin black? i dont think so...i aint hatin on em and i would never hate on him because hes white, i would hate on him for bein a racist, yeah thats rite, but i would never hate on nobody for the color of his skin

[Matthew]

Its easy to pass the blame onto someone else i guess... With eminem there is a constant double standard, and its pretty obvious in this thread as well. If he makes a funny rap, he's "talented". But if he crosses the line he's "misunderstood", according to his fans.

Passing the blame onto mack 10 or whatever other rappers is an irrelivent point.

However, I dont not like eminem for saying nigger, he's said it before (in "remember me", he says "nigger back the fuck up"). I dont like eminem for making songs about his fantasies of killing his mother and taking his daughter out to the beach with her dead mother in the boot... and also he complains about having too many fans.

To me, Eminem is just an incredibly immature rapper... and his fans think this is somewhat couragous of him for saying retarded things by saying to non fans who bring this up "would you have the courage to say this?". It doesnt take courage to say anything on a rap cd... its actually quite cowardly.

Lets see eminem call David Robinson a nigger or tell him these fantasies of wanting to kill his mother... to someone bigger, stronger. Now that takes courage.

[Wall St. Peon]

rap is ALL about characters, personalities and opinions.

This is true...but if you believe this, then you shouldn't like any rapper because everything you see is more or less a facade - generally more, not less.

the 2nd thing is what the hell makes you think im feelin black at all?

I think he's making a reference to your posting style...but I could be wrong.

Passing the blame onto mack 10 or whatever other rappers is an irrelivent point.

Not really. The most discriminated group in history are black women...and rappers constantly talk about black women in a negative light, a submissive light.

However, I dont not like eminem for saying nigger, he's said it before (in "remember me", he says "nigger back the fuck up").

That's said by one of the D12 guys, who's black. Snoop Dogg calls Eminem a nigger in some song or other...

To me, Eminem is just an incredibly immature rapper... and his fans think this is somewhat couragous of him for saying retarded things by saying to non fans who bring this up "would you have the courage to say this?". It doesnt take courage to say anything on a rap cd... its actually quite cowardly.

I suppose you could say this...but if he's immature for satirizing things, then what about the rappers who only rap about drugs, money, and using women? How mature is that?

Lets see eminem call David Robinson a nigger or tell him these fantasies of wanting to kill his mother... to someone bigger, stronger. Now that takes courage.

Everyone who's heard his albums has heard his fantasies about wanting to kill people. I'm sure that there's probably one person in the world who is bigger than him and wants to kill Eminem, or hurt him...and they could do that if they wanted. As for the first part, he said it in a freestyle. This is being overreacted to...he's wrong, but because he said a word, is he racist? Is Mark Twain racist for using 'nigger' in his books? You have to know the context of something before saying "that's bad!!" - and the context of this was a freestyle where you say whatever that comes off your head, and that came off his head - like six or seven years ago. If Eminem was obviously a racist then, then don't you think that he would have done something racist since then? He's in the public light now, and people want to find a reason to bring him down...it's like someone getting elected as president, and then finding out he smoked pot in college...

[Old School Fool]

http://pub175.ezboard.com/fniketalkfrm18.showMessage?topicID=14523.topic

have the news that should end the whole Eminem racist debate. Here you go

This is an email from Chaos Kid that he just recently wrote to The Source, hes the guy who gave The Source the racist Eminem tapes...Props to Baron at D12world.com

here's what he wrote to the editor of the Source magazine
Kim Osario-

I don't know where to begin... to sum it up, this article is partly good, but the longer I think about it, it's mostly bad. You were concerned as to whether or not I feel you're article to be unbiased. Well, thank you for not portraying ME in a bad light but as far as maintaining an unbiased stance, you certainly failed. As a matter of fact, I am forced at this point to recognize that there are obviously some ulterior motives/personal hang-ups/political/racial agendas going on behind the scenes at The Source and this is making it impossible for you to present the issue of these tapes in a true light that would give a full spectrum of perspective. I am presenting a solution to this problem:

I will write a 'letter to the editor' which you will agree to print in the next issue of The Source which will present the most vital facts surrounding the issue of these tapes. I will do this as to give you an opportunity to present the WHOLE truth of the story BEFORE I go to other, larger publications and media sources, some of which, are bound to print the WHOLE truth. If you agree to print my 'letter to the editor' and I am satisfied with the way you print it (in other words, unedited) then I agree NOT to go to other publications with the truth. Let's review these facts I'm talking about and I'm sure you will agree that the most vital part of what I said was left out and how this could possibly damage the Source's credibility as being an unbiased, fair and accurate source of information:

1: Most importantly: YOU DID NOT GIVE THE BACKGROUND OF THE TAPE. Here are the facts which I specifically remember telling you REPEATEDLY in the interview as being the MOST IMPORTANT FACTS and REASON WHY I did the interview in the first place: 1) these songs were NOT WRITTEN - They were FREESTYLES. 2) This freestyle is one of the HUNDREDS OF FREESTYLES we did over the years. 3) The NAME of these freestyle sessions we called: SUCKERIN' RHYMES. 4) The WHOLE PURPOSE of Suckerin' Rhymes was to be as goofy/stupid/ignorant/wack
as possible - to be a 'sucker M.C.' - hence the title: SUCKERIN' RHYMES. 5) The REASON WHY we did these freestyle sessions was so we could 1: TO HAVE A FUN TIME 2: TO LISTEN TO THE RECORDINGS AFTER WE WERE FINISHED AND LAUGH AT OURSELVES 3: TO WARM UP AND GET READY TO HAVE A REAL RECORDING SESSION WITH SONGS WE ACTUALLY HAD WRITTEN AND INTENDED TO RELEASE TO THE PUBLIC.

As you can see, if you were to present the tapes in THIS LIGHT, THE WAY I INTENDED IT TO BE, people would have a much more accurate and broader perspective by which to judge for themselves the motives and sentiments of Marshall Mathers when he recorded these songs. Here are some other CRUCIAL FACTS you left out:

2) Based on the above information, it is my BEST OPINION THAT MARSHALL MATHERS IS NOT A RACIST. ALTHOUGH THE SONGS WERE IN BAD TASTE, THEY WERE NOT INTENDED TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY OR EVEN HEARD AND DO NOT REPRESENT THE TRUE SENTIMENTS OF EMINEM.

3) Although you did mention that it was a 'joke', without the above information, this does nothing to put things in their proper perspective. Everone knows that someone can tell a racist joke and most likely the reason they're telling it in the first place is because they are racist!! BUT - when you take ALL of the information into consideration - the fact that these were: SUCKERIN' RHYMES AND THE PURPOSE WAS TO REPRESENT WACKNESS and my personal testimony that WE WERE THE VICTIMS OF BEING CALLED RACIST NAMES - '******', ETC.. FOR BEING INVOLVED IN HIP-HOP MUSIC BY IGNORANT-ASS WHITE PEOPLE AROUND US AND THAT THESE RECORDINGS IN MY OPINION WERE REPRESENTING THAT IGNORANT MENTALITY FROM A FIRST PERSON POINT OF VIEW BUT WAS SARCASTIC - NOT MEANT TO BE TAKEN LITERALLY AS THE OPINIONS OF MARSHALL MATHERS, it puts things in a much different perspective. Example: an actor can play a racist character in a movie about, say, the horrors of the Klan, but in real life that does not make him a racist. In fact, the reason WHY he probably did the movie in the first place is because he hated racism and wanted to expose the inhumanity and devastating effects of racist behavior!!

4) As we know however, these songs were freestyles, not written and did not have that kind of serious intention behind them as they were never meant to be heard in the first place. So, based on the above information, it is my BEST CONCLUSION THAT THESE SONGS WERE DONE OUT OF ANGER FROM EXPERIENCING WHITE RACISM AND UNDERSTANDING HOW IRRATIONAL, IGNORANT AND WACK IT IS AND SPEWING SOME OF THE VENOM BACK HE'S HEARD OVER THE YEARS - SOME OF IT DIRECTED AT HIM - ONTO THE MICROPHONE.

Another point I made in my interview which you neglected to report is:

5) In my personal experience with Marshall, during the time these recordings were made, HE NEVER USED THE WORD '******' OR ANY OTHER DEROGATORY NAMES OR MADE ANY DEROGATORY REMARKS ABOUT AFRICAN-AMERICANS IN CASUAL CONVERSATION WITH ME. In fact, we personally had conversations talking about how we hated racism and racists and both had REAL songs denouncing racism!!

Now, regarding some of the other 'facts' you got wrong:

6) Marshall did not move to Warren in his early teens. He lived in the city of Detroit. The Northeast side between 7 and 8 mile which is still predominantly black. He never lived in Warren. He would, however, frequently get kicked out by his crazy mom and would sometimes spend a few nights at a time in Warren between 8 and 9 mile at Manix and Buttafingaz' house. His girlfriend also lived in that area, so I assume he would spend some nights over there as well. However, most of the time his girlfriend would spend the night at HIS house in Detroit where he had his own room. He first went to a Detroit High School where he had some problems so for awhile he went to Lincoln High School between 8 and 9 mile in Warren. He did this by giving the school a false address within the school district. This is where he met Manix and D.J. Buttafingaz who were also attending Lincoln at the time. After awhile Lincoln High School found out that he wasn't a Warren resident however and he had to go back to Detroit schools where he attended once again for a period of time before being kicked out or dropping out (I don't remember which). All the music was recorded in Warren during this time over at Manix and Butta's house but Marshall DID live in Detroit.

7) MARSHALL DID NOT FORM BASSMINT PRODUCTIONS. IT WAS MANIX WHO CAME UP WITH THE NAME AND HE IS THE MAIN FOUNDER.

Going back to the tapes, I think it is important also to mention that THE FIRST VERSE OF 'FOOLISH PRIDE' IS ABOUT RACIAL UNITY!! Neglecting to report this fact is very shameful and again, shows a biased ulterior motive in presenting the story. You are not presenting the whole truth.

9) OK, as I'm looking at the article here, you did mention that they were freestyles, but without giving the history of the SUCKERIN' RHYME, this does nothing to put things in their proper perspective.

10) Some of the 'quotes' you used of mine seem pieced together. If it's not a direct quote from beginning to end, you should make your readers aware of that.

Overall, as I have said, a much better job could have been done. I don't know what kind of internal politics is going on at The Source which is forcing you to present things in this manner. However, as I have said, I will give you the opportunity to correct things. I would like to write a 'letter to the editor' which you will agree to print in the next issue of The Source clearing things up. If you do not agree to print it, I will be forced out of concern for THE TRUTH to go to other mainstream publications. I will also be forced to site as one of my reasons for going to them the irresponsible fashion in which The Source has 'reported' the issue. This is not a threat. This is the inevitable, natural consequence of irresponsible journalism. If you wish to correct the situation, please let me know within the week so I can make a responsible decision regarding my next course of action.

[Old School Fool]

Do you know how many Times I call my Computer the "N" word with the ER at the End? And I am black

[Robby]

i dont only care about the music, rap is a part of my life and if i dont like a guy even tho his music is good i wont listen to his stuff since rap is ALL about characters, personalities and opinions.

This is exactly what I said. It's just music pal, don't get obsessed with it. Now you see how this is just like 30 year old guys who are one with the Force or the other guys who hope to one day join the Enterprise. It's really quite pathetic.

I think he's making a reference to your posting style...but I could be wrong.

That's right.

Do you know how many Times I call my Computer the "N" word with the ER at the End? And I am black

There's so much I could say to you but I'm going to restrain myself and simply ask you to not post just for the sake of posting. And if you don't want to be called a spammer, then don't post different things within 4 minutes of each other. Maybe you were unaware, but we do have the ability to edit our posts.

[EGarrett]

But that doesn't change any of his songs. If you used to love his music, then all of a sudden you hate the songs because of his character. I guess my view is a bit different because I just like listen to different types of songs, without any concern for who sang the song. That's why I don't watch any Music Videos or stuff like that, because if a song is good, then I'll listen to it no matter who the creator is.

I see that you want to separate the product from the salesman. In most areas you can do that. But this is showbusiness. The product IS the salesman. Eminem's voice...his face in his music videos and all of that are all over his product and associated with his product.

Eminem's comment call his entire persona into question. And since that's a major portion of what he's selling...it's a big deal.

So you deny yourself the fun of listening to "good music" (according to one's tastes) just because the singer isn't what he claims to be.

What is 'good music?' It's music that inspires a positive feeling in you As a black person...there aren't many worse feelings than being a victim of racism. Once you associate that with Eminem...his music no longer inspires good feelings in you. Thus it's no longer "good music" to most of his audience.

Good point. But please tell me do all rappers respect other minorties (not just in terms of race) and disempowered groups? Women are not only treated like like objects, but also objectified to an absurd degree. However many women do listen to those types of songs. So many other smaller social groups are bashed in the songs, but they still listen to the stuff.

I don't think you'll find many, if any, rappers insulting Asians... Jews...Hispanics or any other minority group. It's just anger against one's own ethnic peers and community. Venturing out of that is racism...and I actually don't know of any rappers who cross that line against other small minority groups.

Granted...you'll hear a fair share of sexism or anger against "the system." But that's common in society as a whole. Gangsta rap is often about stupidity and ignorance. But racism is not covered under that umbrella. As Andrew posted earlier...it's very serious...and if Eminem did feel that way or regularly use racist terms then he's crossed a line that isn't accepted even in gangsta rap.

But once you start acting "black" and/or feeling "black" like our good friend Drama, then I feel you're kind of in the same boat as obsessed Star Trek fans and all those pre-teen girls obsessed with boy-bands. What gets even more pathetic is what went in the "How to Net Thug" thread and people like Old School Fool make their "insightful" posts.

Now you're going from discussing Eminem to attacking other forum members. You know that's going to cause a flame...so stop it.

[Jackal]

This whole thing, is a matter of double standards...

I'm gonna use examples here:

Mr Pac, who is widely respected, can rap about "Nigga's" and "Bitches" and bout dirty cops... It's a known fact, that Tupac disliked, any and all cops.

Mr Shady, who is way more in the spotlight compared to any other black rapper, cannot rap about "Nigga's", "Bitches" and (what he dislikes) Ghey people...

As soon as he does, he has the womens rights activists on after him or the Gay rights activists...

It's wrong, in no way am I saying it's right.

But Drama can come in here, and rant on about "not feeling the music when he finds out who the rapper is", yet...listens to a person's music who isn't very different...

Pac rapped bout what sucked in his life...Em is doing that...Em is bad...Pac is good? I don't get this part. In my book, it's called double standards.

Like I've said before, I DO NOT support Eminem calling people nigger in a the hating way...but there are many many many black rappers, who rap about wigga's, I'm not justifying one by giving the example of others doing it, but I just want a simple clarification about the whole thing.

Please, do not say..."Andrew explained it, there is history to the N word".
So? Does that make it right to say wigger, but it's wrong to say nigger?

In this case, I go back to the double standards thing.

The word "bitch" is very painful to alot of people and it has a history of hate...the word itself means, female dog, but when a person says "I'm gonna fuck that bitch" it's clearly in a demeaning way.

Sure, the N-Word (as some of you refer to it, I cant understand why we cant just say it, since none of us really mean it in any other way...or do we?) is more demeaning becuz of the past and all, but...screaming bitch bitch bitch in rap songs are still wrong.

Finally, as Robby has said, it's just music. Move on, just don't justify it for one and then say it's wrong for the other.

Again, it was wrong of Eminem to say those words, very wrong and he is in no place to say something like that, but I don't want to see people saying Eminem is wrong, yet they support their own idols by justifying their actions. In the end, what they said, WAS WRONG.

[Dramacydal]

But Drama can come in here, and rant on about "not feeling the music when he finds out who the rapper is", yet...listens to a person's music who isn't very different...

oh yes, i can. but you dont get that it has nothin to do with pac disliking the cops. and its not about finding out who the rapper is, its about finding out if he really meant what he said. as i said in my example, if someone raps about something and i totally agree with his opinion then im feeling his music, but if i find out that it isnt his real opinion and that he actually doesnt mean what he says how can i feel him any longer then? its impossible for me to feel someone you no about that he actually doesnt stand for what he says. so it has nothin to do with pac and the cops thing.

[Jackal]

Again, you perceive what I'm trying to say wrong, what I fail to understand...is how can you like someone for doing one wrong thing, but because another did some thing that is wronger (ye ye, it's not a word.) One is correct and the other is wrong. That is what's happening isn't it?

[Dramacydal]

Again, you perceive what I'm trying to say wrong, what I fail to understand...is how can you like someone for doing one wrong thing, but because another did some thing that is wronger (ye ye, it's not a word.) One is correct and the other is wrong. That is what's happening isn't it?

uhm...yeah rite. do you have any idea what youre talkin bout at all? maybe its jus me but i didnt quite get what your last post was supposed to mean...

[Jackal]

Fine then, lets just leave it at that.