michael jordan @ www.nba.com/history

Exactly. Chartered jets, good shoes, good medicine, a slow pace, all these rules against physical contact...NBA players today have it easy.

All teams enjoy these benifits, so its not as if only Jordan had them.

Then why haven't so many other seven footers dominated? One cannot ignore that today there are more six foot guards than seven foot centers in the league.

I'm not sure about figures here, but i can safely say that it is alot rarer to be 7 foot than 6 foot. If you worked out percentages of the amount of 7 footers compared to 6 footers in the nba and the percentages of the population who is actually 7 foot... im sure you'll find your reason.

It's doubtful he could have averaged 22.9 rebounds per game over his career had he played in the same era as Jordan.

Becuase the level of talent now and in Jordans era was better than wilts. The athletes back then were rubbish with the exception of a very small few.

40 field goals per game! That wouldn't happen today.

Because Wilt would be stoped in todays game if he took that many, his percantage would be so low becuase the league is tougher now.

Wilt didn't want to do that, his teammates pushed him all season, he finally caved and felt horrible afterwards.

Heheh aw poor wilt, did he cry?

Here's why. Teams today don't even get 80 shots a game. If you gave 63 shots to a player in the last decade, they would not be able to get 100 because the defense would focus on them (like they did Wilt, the Knicks were hanging on his back to stop him from scoring) and the slow pace would prevent it.

The first part I agree with, the opposing team would lower wilts percentages so bad with good defense and players that can physically match up with him. The reason is teams these days(and in the 90's) play at alot higher level then wilts, and thats why wilt would never dominate in todays game, or in the 90's.

Back then the player had to score without dribbling, today you get at least a dribble and a half. I have no doubt Wilt would've cracked 10 and Oscar would've cracked 15 assists today.

Opinion..

This is deceiving again for a number of reasons. One, the assist rules. Two, the fact that when Wilt was a scoring machine that was his job, his job was not to set up his teammates because they weren't as good. When he got to Philadelphia he had some great teammates and so he became more of a go-through than the stopping point.

And it also wasnt MJ's job to set up his teamates, but yet he still did...

Michael Jordan never faced the Boston Celtics of the 1960s.

lol.. yeah how would mj and the bulls ever have stopped bob cousy and those incredible ball handling skills of his?

The Boston Celtics. The greatest dynasty in Basketball history. The Lakers weren't too shabby either with Baylor and West. Nor were the Hawks or Royals.

Maybe boston wouldve been competeive in the 90's, but the other teams, i really doubt whether they had the athletes to compete in that level of basketball.

That is such a laugh. Wilt would've torn the players today apart, especially if he was in his prime in the 90's. Teams were courting him in the late 80's because he was still considered one of the top ten players in the world...at age 52! Wilt was a freak, he threw a 250lb man over a volleyball net, he ran marathons and played pro volleyball until his death. He was a track star in college, best in the nation at the shot put and dominant in other areas. To think he would've only been a tad better than Akeem is a joke.

What teams were courting him in the late 80's? All that stuff, yes that proves Wilt was better than michael but mj's triple doubles are irelivent
Hakeem has the same amount of rings, plus he only lost once in the nba finals and won twice. Hakeem wouldve make wilt so dizzy if they faced each other.. just look at what hakeem did to shaq in 95 and Patrick ewing in 94, David Robinson in 95 as well...

To say Michael Jordan is a better athlete than Jesse Owens, Babe Didrikson or Jim Thorpe is foolish (yes, I'm looking at you SportsCentury). Hell, to say he was a better athlete than Wilt is also foolish.

Michael Jordan, the greatest athlete of all time. Wilt was a joke, he'd be the Kelvin Cato in the nba right now.. now that was foolish. But to say wilt is better simply by rambling off on old wives tales such as "wilt ran in marathons, wilt threw 250lbs over a volleyball net, MJ slaped steve Kerr," is also foolish..

All teams enjoy these benifits, so its not as if only Jordan had them.

Because not reading things in context is fun! I wasn't even talking about Jordan, I was expanding on Jeffx's explanation on how the 60's and 70's were not some amateur league.

Becuase the level of talent now and in Jordans era was better than wilts. The athletes back then were rubbish with the exception of a very small few.

Again, that is utterly laughable. The game in the 60's and 70's was a full-contact track meet, today it is a walz through the park with a four-man security detail. The talent level of the 60's and 70's was greater than today because of the lack of expansion.

Because Wilt would be stoped in todays game if he took that many, his percantage would be so low becuase the league is tougher now.

Wrong. The league is not tougher now.

The first part I agree with, the opposing team would lower wilts percentages so bad with good defense and players that can physically match up with him. The reason is teams these days(and in the 90's) play at alot higher level then wilts, and thats why wilt would never dominate in todays game, or in the 90's.

NO, THEY DON'T! Teams today play at a lower level than the teams in the 60's and 70's! Look how many shitty teams there are today, all the teams in the 60's were at least as good as the Mavericks, Spurs, Kings and Lakers. With a number of them being far better.

Opinion..

Yes, it is. I'm sure Wilt and Oscar would've racked up far more assists against players of today's talent, I was being conservative in my conversion.

And it also wasnt MJ's job to set up his teamates, but yet he still did...

Their situations were almost the same, Jordan and Wilt were on bad teams and shot the lights out, when the teams got better their scoring averages dropped as they fit more into a team, Jordan's teams were never as good as Wilts (late '60's Sixers, early '70's Lakers) so he didn't drop as far in scoring and go up as far in assists.

lol.. yeah how would mj and the bulls ever have stopped bob cousy and those incredible ball handling skills of his?

My god. How can attempt to descredit the greatest team in the history of the NBA? They had ten hall of famers, they won 8 championships in a row, they had what 11 in 13 years? Jones, Heinsohn, Russell, Havilcek, Cousy, Howell, Siegfried, Nelson, Sanders...that team was stocked over those years and the Jordan Bulls (who went two and a half hall of famers deep) would've never ever ever been able to defeat them.

Maybe boston wouldve been competeive in the 90's, but the other teams, i really doubt whether they had the athletes to compete in that level of basketball.

Yeah, running up and down the floor at an insane pace with crazy foul rules in bad shoes after flying in lousy planes, having only resonable medicine compared to today, having to play more than two games back to back, a lot of them being stars in track and field as well, and doing it all in those lousy Chuck Taylors. Yeah, those guys were hardly athlethes. Sigh...

What teams were courting him in the late 80's? All that stuff, yes that proves Wilt was better than michael but mj's triple doubles are irelivent

They are, because they didn't count triple doubles when Wilt played.

Hakeem has the same amount of rings, plus he only lost once in the nba finals and won twice. Hakeem wouldve make wilt so dizzy if they faced each other..

You should stop making these outrageous statements.

Michael Jordan, the greatest athlete of all time. Wilt was a joke, he'd be the Kelvin Cato in the nba right now.. now that was foolish. But to say wilt is better simply by rambling off on old wives tales such as "wilt ran in marathons, wilt threw 250lbs over a volleyball net, MJ slaped steve Kerr," is also foolish..

Michael Jordan is not a better athlete than Jesse Owens, Babe Didrikson or Jim Thorpe. Anyone who's not blinded by his Jordan I's knows that. Jordan was great basketball, he sucked at baseball and is marginal in golf. He's not the greatest athlete of all time.

That Michael Jordan assault and batteried Steve Kerr, harrased his Wizards teammates (calling Brown a "flaming faggot", etc.) and such are not "wives tales." He did those things.

That Wilt ran in marathons and played professional volleyball until his death, was a track and field star, best in the nation at the shot put, etc. are not a "wives tale" it's true. He did those things. Throwing a 250 (or 220) lb man over a volleyball net may have some exaggeration to it I don't doubt that, but it's not entirely unplausable when you get away from your fantasy world and actually realize the players of the 60's and 70's were not all 5-8, (infact, after Barnsey and Jowe last night talked about how all the centers were 6-6 I looked...the league didn't have a starting center shorter than 6-9 other than Wayne Embry) white, slow and horrible but were astonishing athletes that did it all without the technology these kidz today have.

When we compare Wilt and Jordan it's interesting. I bring up Wilt's individual acheivements which dwarf Jordan's and you bring up the Bulls' team achievements. More Wilt individual achievements, you bring in opinions. More Wilt individual achievements, you attempt to descredit the league by lying and saying it was an amatuer league full of people with the athletic ability of Dr. Phil. You attempt to descredit Wilt by lying and saying he played against 6-6 Centers and was the only 7 footer. You attempt descredit Wilt by talking about how he was big, as if that doesn't make him better. So what if he was bigger than everyone, that just made him even more dominant than he already was and it doesn't explain why why Jabbar could not equal Wilt's feats despite being taller. Taller players like Shawn Bradley, Rik Smits, Gheorge Muresan or Manute Bol never have come close. So the size argument is worthless.

Also, when you bring in all the awards and "triple doubles" you're trying to show Jordan is greater by tilting the playing field:
From NBAHoopsOnline.com:
All-defensive teams: The All-defensive team wasn't created until 1969 - Bill Russell's final season, and yes, Russell did make it. Walt Frazier made the first seven teams (1969-75). It didn't exist during his first 2 seasons.

Finals MVP: This award also wasn't created until 1969.

Steals and blocks: These stats weren't officially recorded until the 1974 seasons - Oscar Robertson's final season and the season after Wilt Chamberlain retired. Unofficial stats frequently had Walt Frazier making well over 5 steals, and in Wilt Chamberlain's first game, he unofficially had 17 blocks. One official said that in his estimate, Wilt and Russell averaged about 8 blocks per game that he witnessed them play.

Triple-doubles: This stat wasn't officially recorded until the early 1980s. Oscar Robertson averaged a triple-double over the course of his first 5 seasons. Wilt Chamberlain averaged 24.3 ppg, 23.8 rpg, and 8.6 apg. You don't think he had a few triple-doubles that season? (He recorded the only triple-20 (20+ points, rebounds, and assists) in history that season. Toss in blocks, and he had quite a few quadruple-doubles during his career.

Defensive Player of the Year: This award wasn't issued until the 1983 season. It's safe to say that Bill Russell would have won quite a few of these, and Wilt probably would have won in 1972 and 73.

But yet you still use them to attempt to show Jordan's dominance...the facts say Jordan wasn't the greatest of All-Time, just the greatest of the 1990s. The same time the vast majority of us were growing up. Look at what Jeffx said. He saw Wilt, he saw Jordan, he saw Shaq, KG, everyone. He says Wilt's better, the facts confirm his findings, that, sir, is proof enough for me.

People today are pretty quick to separate dominance and skill. In the last few years a lot of people said that Shaq is the most dominant player in the league and Kobe was the best player.

I see it the same way with Jordan and Wilt. Wilt is the most dominant player in history and Michael is the best.

I see it the same way with Jordan and Wilt. Wilt is the most dominant player in history and Michael is the best.

well said

The most important : the playoffs.

Jordan 33.4 ppg
Chamberlain 22.5 ppg

The difference is BIG.

Last edited by senhorxxx on Fri Jan 02, 2004 10:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

Nba in the 60's ???
A joke.

First of all, let me start by saying I think Jordan is the best ever, because he has the stats, and he won. But I can't say that he's without a doubt better than Wilt, Kareem, Russell, Magic, Bird, Oscar, or even West.

But a lot of the point used to argue against Wilt are really bad, and are opinions not even remotely based in fact.

So wilt had 4 or 5 good seasons, in an ameuter league back then, and he only walked away with 2 rings.

I hate it when people trash another player's accomplishments in order to make their player seem better.

First of all, Wilt had 7 scoring titles, and 11 rebounding titles, so that's not 5 good seasons. And it wasn't an ameuter league. Those players were profesionals just as much as today. They got paid. Even their college athletes were illegally paid liked today, including Wilt.

Let's look at it this way. Joe Caldwell played against Wilt Chamberlain, and called him the greatest ever (because of how he changed the game). He also played against Julius Erving, and guarded him better than anybody (according to the Doctor). Erving played against Jordan, but only when he was old. But Bird played (and beat) Jordan when he was in his prime, and said that Dr. J and Air Jordan are both great.

Wilt played against Kareem, and at times outplayed him (blocked his skyhook multiple times). Wilt played with Thurmond who always outplayed Kareem. Kareem played against Moses and Hakeem (he was outplayed by both, but there is no question Kareen is an all-time great). Hakeem swept Shaq in the Finals.

Because Wilt would be stoped in todays game if he took that many, his percantage would be so low becuase the league is tougher now.

The league isn't tougher now. Wilt played when teams still had hacketmen and enforcers. Well before flagarent fouls, and when fights still broke out. And percentages were lower when Wilt played, then when Jordan played, so (by your logic) defences were better.

lol.. yeah how would mj and the bulls ever have stopped bob cousy and those incredible ball handling skills of his?

And how would Jordan score with KC Jones cliniging to him, Russell changing his shot in the lane, and Loscutoff hitting him with his elbow every time he came close.

2. During the 60s, most of the top five players in the assists column were averaging around 6 apg or less. Compare this to the 90s, where most players in the top 5 for assists were averaging greater than 8 assists per game. Wilt's "league leading" 8.6 assists per game (Oscar Robertson actually averaged 9.7 apg that year) would not have led the league during the 80s and 90s.

That's because assists weren't awarded as easily. Assists are subjective to the person keeping track of the stats (Larry Bird said it always seemed easier to get assists out West)

A significant difference between these two great scorers is that MJ was able to top the league in scoring while also winning championships. Only a couple of players have been able to do that.

True. That's why people always said about Jordan that he couldn't win until he stopped scoring so much (until he did, now no one says that.)

The players who won a championship and lead the league in scoring are: Joe Fulks, George Mikan, Kareem, Jordan, and Shaq.

What teams were courting him in the late 80's? All that stuff, yes that proves Wilt was better than michael but mj's triple doubles are irelivent

Read his book "A View From Above". I know the Lakers and Clippers were teams, but I can't remember the rest (I think the Sixers, and many others).

And Wilt is 3rd all time in triple doubles. Oscar has 181. Magic has 138. And Wilt has 78. (bird is 4th, and I think Kidd is 5th.)

. Hakeem wouldve make wilt so dizzy if they faced each other.. just look at what hakeem did to shaq in 95 and Patrick ewing in 94, David Robinson in 95 as well...

No he wouldn't, because Wilt played the ball, not the man, so he didn't bite on fakes. And Wilt would be dropping Finger rolls, and blowing by him in the open court for easy layups.

But to say wilt is better simply by rambling off on old wives tales such as "wilt ran in marathons, wilt threw 250lbs over a volleyball net, MJ slaped steve Kerr," is also foolish..

He beat Jim Brown in a race. He was a track star in High School and College. He tried out for the Kansas City Chiefs, and ran a 4.4. He was a highjump champion. He played for the Harlem Globetrotters, and his vertical was measuered at 43 inches. Sonny Hill said Wilt's the only player he's ever seen touch the top of the backboard. Wilt was undefeated in the shotput. He benched 500lbs. He was seen long after his career warming up with 450.

Ben & sixerfan, thanks for spreading your wisdom here. It's amazing what I'm reading from some of these young NBA fans. Michael Jordan is not the Alpha & the Omega - there was an NBA before him and it wasn't bush-league. Before you trash players you never saw, read about them & watch old tapes. Those old-timers had skill. MJ has his place in NBA history, but the league made things easier for him with the rules changes regarding physical play. Wilt, Russell, Oscar, West & Kareem didn't have that luxury. I forgot where I read this, but a former player said a lot of guys are still alive today because Wilt rarely lost his cool on the court. It was rough back then.

I also feel the best Bulls teams(90-93) would've lost to Magic's '85 Lakers or Bird's '86 Celtics. IMO, those teams were more solid from top to bottom.

Fantastic post sixerfan, you said everything I was trying to.

Jeffx, maybe you can confirm this, but I was reading a book that had a thing on Mikan and it said that in his day fans would throw things at the players, so they put up a kind of metal fence around the court and then the home team would slam the visiting guys into it and the fans would poke them with pencils, nails and such. I think about that and then I think about how today you can't even handcheck anymore. And when I think about how the NBA commissioner and the owners and such were trying to find ways to change the rules to stop the Wilt and Mikan. And now how they are thinking about getting rid of the zone because todays players don't know how to shoot or cut right and thus can't break a zone.

I have no doubt the best Bulls teams would've been beaten around by the 80's dynasties, maybe even the Pistons. I mean they came how close to losing to the Knicks if they had a better three point bomber or two to take more pressure off Ewing.

Now, everyone, don't get me wrong, I think Jordan is a great player. The numbers say he's the best to ever play the game save for Wilt and a few years of Kareem's career. Though personally I think Oscar, Elgin and a few others would have surpassed him if they played in his day, I do go with the idea that Jordan is the second greatest player in NBA History. People often get the idea I'm saying he sucks, I'm not, I'm saying he's not as great as Wilt. Probably better than everyone else, but not Wilt.

Oh, Jeffx, one last question for you if you have time, just how great do you think the 71-72 Lakers would've been if they had a healthy Baylor? He only played 9 games and they won 69 and 33 straight, what if they had a healthy Baylor in that lineup with Wilt, Goodrich, West, McMillian and Hairson, do you think they might have won 70+?

No doubt about it Ben, it's frightening to think what that Laker team would have done if Elgin played the whole season. 70+ would have been no problem. While we're on the subject of all-time great teams, Wilt's '66-'67 Sixers won 45 of their first 49 games, and finished 68-13 on their way to the title. They had Chet Walker, Hal Greer, Luke Jackson & Billy Cunningham.

I don't know about the Mikan story, but it's worth checking out, Ben.

I hate it when people trash another player's accomplishments in order to make their player seem better.

Funny you don't quote this: "He also assault and batteried Steve Kerr"

First of all, Wilt had 7 scoring titles, and 11 rebounding titles, so that's not 5 good seasons. And it wasn't an ameuter league. Those players were profesionals just as much as today. They got paid. Even their college athletes were illegally paid liked today, including Wilt.

First up, Wilt had 7 scoring titles, MJ had 10. MJ was alot more consistant throughout his career, and that was my point. Wilt may have posted massive number for 3 or 4 seasons, but beyond that he posted david robinson numbers (which are good, im not discrediting them, all im saying is wilt wasnt able to maintain that level)
As for the ameuter league, the players were no where near the same as the players from the late 80's. Technically, they were proffesionals becuase they were paid, but that means i'm a pro rugby league player becuase im getting paid this season as well. You compare the players of the 50's and 60's to those players now, and they do look like a high school league of today.

Let's look at it this way. Joe Caldwell played against Wilt Chamberlain, and called him the greatest ever (because of how he changed the game). He also played against Julius Erving, and guarded him better than anybody (according to the Doctor). Erving played against Jordan, but only when he was old. But Bird played (and beat) Jordan when he was in his prime, and said that Dr. J and Air Jordan are both great.

Um, Dr J entered the nba in 1976, wilt retired in 1973, so how did wilt ever match up the doctor? I could make a list of players who regard MJ as the best ever. And Larry Bird did get the better of Michael Jordan, but that doesnt lower MJ'S status imo. Wilt lost alot more than what Jordan did, plus going by this logic you could make a point for Isiah Thomas being better than Larry bird becuase the pistons beat the celtics one year...

Wilt played against Kareem, and at times outplayed him (blocked his skyhook multiple times). Wilt played with Thurmond who always outplayed Kareem. Kareem played against Moses and Hakeem (he was outplayed by both, but there is no question Kareen is an all-time great). Hakeem swept Shaq in the Finals.

Um ok

The league isn't tougher now. Wilt played when teams still had hacketmen and enforcers. Well before flagarent fouls, and when fights still broke out. And percentages were lower when Wilt played, then when Jordan played, so (by your logic) defences were better.

You don't think that jordan had to deal with all that? Remember the tactics of the bad boys and the knicks of the early 90's?Fights still break out today so i really dont see your point again, except maybe to say the league was rough? So if that is your point, who wouldve had the advantage back then? The biggest and strongest player perhaps?

And how would Jordan score with KC Jones cliniging to him, Russell changing his shot in the lane, and Loscutoff hitting him with his elbow every time he came close

Lol the same way Jordan broke down every defense he had encountered in his career... and remember his ppg is higher in the playoffs than the regular season, when teams like to clamp down on the opposing teams primary offensive weapon, yet his scoring went up.
I just cant imagine how the celtics wouldve stopped jordan, just think of the skills mj had, the jumpshot, the ability to finish with either hand, the hang time, the dunking ability, the toughness to take and make game winners.

True. That's why people always said about Jordan that he couldn't win until he stopped scoring so much (until he did, now no one says that.)

But Jordan's scoring was still the leagues best, was that the case with wilt?

Read his book "A View From Above". I know the Lakers and Clippers were teams, but I can't remember the rest (I think the Sixers, and many others).

Is this the same book that he claims he slept with 20 000 women?

And Wilt is 3rd all time in triple doubles. Oscar has 181. Magic has 138. And Wilt has 78. (bird is 4th, and I think Kidd is 5th.)

I thought triple doubles werent recorded back then?

No he wouldn't, because Wilt played the ball, not the man, so he didn't bite on fakes. And Wilt would be dropping Finger rolls, and blowing by him in the open court for easy layups.

I disagree. Look at all the great Centres Hakeem look bad, from kareem, to david robinson... patrick ewing, shaq. Hakeem made them look like retards(slow). I just cant see wilt being any different to shaq in that sense.. the shaq in 95 that is.

He beat Jim Brown in a race. He was a track star in High School and College. He tried out for the Kansas City Chiefs, and ran a 4.4. He was a highjump champion. He played for the Harlem Globetrotters, and his vertical was measuered at 43 inches. Sonny Hill said Wilt's the only player he's ever seen touch the top of the backboard. Wilt was undefeated in the shotput. He benched 500lbs. He was seen long after his career warming up with 450.

Is this all in his book? Or is there actualy records of this?

I also feel the best Bulls teams(90-93) would've lost to Magic's '85 Lakers or Bird's '86 Celtics. IMO, those teams were more solid from top to bottom.

Jeff, as always i respect your opinion. However i cant say i agree... and this is exactly why i consider jordan as the greatest player and the bulls as the best team. There is no doubt Mike was the best player in the 90's, and the bulls were the team of the 90's. Look at previous decades or era's, there is always debate as to who is the best player from that decade or which team was number one. There were some great players in the 90's as well, hakeem, karl malone/jon stockton, payton, Drexler, Shaq, so the talent level was better than that in in the 80's.
Maybe the teams werent as good as the celtics or the lakers of the 80's.. but maybe it just seemed that way becuase the bulls dominated so well? I can see the jazz from 97 or 98 pushing the lakers to 7 games (considering how well they destroyed the lakers in 98 with a sweep). I would pay to see the bulls against the lakers or celtics of the 80's, but i still think either bulls three peat would handle them.

Jeffx, maybe you can confirm this, but I was reading a book that had a thing on Mikan and it said that in his day fans would throw things at the players, so they put up a kind of metal fence around the court and then the home team would slam the visiting guys into it and the fans would poke them with pencils, nails and such. I think about that and then I think about how today you can't even handcheck anymore. And when I think about how the NBA commissioner and the owners and such were trying to find ways to change the rules to stop the Wilt and Mikan. And now how they are thinking about getting rid of the zone because todays players don't know how to shoot or cut right and thus can't break a zone.

I hear about the mesh but wasnt that before the nba was even around?

I have no doubt the best Bulls teams would've been beaten around by the 80's dynasties, maybe even the Pistons. I mean they came how close to losing to the Knicks if they had a better three point bomber or two to take more pressure off Ewing.

The same Pistons team that was swept by Chicago in 91? The Celtics and Lakers would have a better chance to beat the 6 time nba champs of the 90's, but id still take the bulls over any nba team, past or present.

Oh, Jeffx, one last question for you if you have time, just how great do you think the 71-72 Lakers would've been if they had a healthy Baylor? He only played 9 games and they won 69 and 33 straight, what if they had a healthy Baylor in that lineup with Wilt, Goodrich, West, McMillian and Hairson, do you think they might have won 70+?

lol they probably would have considering they did win 69. I don't like the book "who's better, who's best" but if you get the chance, read the chapter on elgin baylor..
Fuck that was a long post.

Just a note on the Jordan Bulls vs. 80's teams argument...Jordan's Bulls were significantly better.

That is...if you buy actual game results and quotes from players involved.

In 91...Jordan's Bulls swept the Bad Boy Pistons and Magic's Lakers in the playoffs. Afterwards...Joe Dumars admitted that once Jordan learned how to use his teammates it became "almost impossible to beat them." Magic also said that he was holding the torch...but at that point Michael came up and "snatched it" from him.

That Lakers team was good enough to make the NBA Finals...Magic and James Worthy were both there..and Michael dominated them. 4-0. A few years earlier..the Lakers were better...but considering how badly he beat them later...the Bulls would most likely win in 6 or 7 games.

And remember...if the Bulls weren't there...the 91 Finals would have been Lakers vs. Pistons...a classic match-up from the era before him. Instead he swept both teams out.

Bulls beat the Lakers 4-1 to be fair EG. It was still a massacre!

Damn a thread I made last night seems to have disappeared into fat air... or am I crazy?

Anyways, here's the quote again on Wilt:

The night he got 55 rebounds, still the NBA record, he did it against Russell. He later said, "Bill Russell couldn't score as well as I could if he had a stepladder, three basketballs and a cannon with a range-finder."

All true. But truth is no defense against charges of rampant egomania. So Russell came to be known as the winner selfless in pursuit of victory while to Chamberlain fell the dark image of the selfish loser more interested in his own feats than his team's.

Russell's ego was no smaller than Chamberlain's; the men satisfied those egos in different ways. Russell needed to win; Chamberlain liked to win, then jump in his pink Bentley and cruise with Kim Novak.

His rationale: "I don't need scoring rifles or NBA championships to prove that I'm a man. There are too many other beautiful things in life--food, cars, girls, friends, the beach, freedom--to get that emotionally wrapped up in basketball."

the way i look at it, Jordan is the greatest modern day NBA playa. greatest and best playa that i myself have had the pleasure and honor of watching. he's the reason why i play ball and why i love the game so much.

Jordan is Jordan. there's no other way to look at it. the man has done so much for the league and for basketball and sports as a whole. he made basketball what it is today and he's the reason why the NBA markets players individually instead of marketing teams. he played the game like no other, and there's so much more that i could say but i won't get into all that since a lot has already been said.

Wilt, on the other hand, is the greatest player of all time IMO. the league had to change the rules of the game when he played to give other teams a better chance when playing against him. dood had monster stats, had a damn 100 point game and made all these huge accomplishments back in the day when the NBA was rougher and tougher.

if Wilt was around today, i think that he'd dominate in somewhat of the same way he did back then, but not to the same extent. i think that he'd still be able to put 20 ppg, depending on his supporting cast and whether or not he had to be the scoring machine. boards wise, dood would prolly eat up the glass like no other. i mean, the only one i see who might possibly out board him is Big Ben, and he's like 4-5 inches shorter than Wilt! Duncan might put up a good fight with him, but iono.. Wilt might be able to shut him down. i personally think Shaq wouldn't be a problem for Wilt.

the never ending debate of the GOAT. i would've loved to watch Wilt play. must have been amazing.

Wilt, on the other hand, is the greatest player of all time IMO. the league had to change the rules of the game when he played to give other teams a better chance when playing against him.

So do you think Geroge Mikan was better than Magic becuase they changed the width of the lane for Mikan as well..