Thu Jul 16, 2009 8:26 pm
benji wrote:It's not competitive?
Outside of the Knicks, Grizzlies and Bobcats every single team in the league has been to the second round or farther this decade. A super majority of the league has been there in the last five years.
Since 2001, the East has seen the Bucks, 76ers, Nets, Celtics, Pistons, Pacers, Heat, Cavaliers, and Magic appear in the Conference Finals. The West has seen the Lakers, Spurs, Kings, Mavericks, Timberwolves, Suns, Jazz, and Nuggets appear. Half of each conference has been in the Conference Finals in the last decade. The East has seen nine different teams in nine years, the West has seen eight in nine years. Go back a year earlier and you can add the Knicks and Blazers. Why did the Lakers and Spurs win so many titles? Because outside of the Pacers in 2000, and The Perfect Team the East was in shambles for most of the decade until saved by the 2003 Draft and subsequent drafts. An entire conference could not be considered a contender. The Lakers and Spurs just had to win the West and then they'd win the title in crushing dominating fashion.
Fri Jul 17, 2009 4:42 am
Tue Jul 21, 2009 8:41 pm
Thu Jul 23, 2009 11:20 am
Thu Jul 23, 2009 12:31 pm
Thu Jul 23, 2009 12:35 pm
Hedonist wrote:What if they would give nr.17 the best chance for the first pick (best team not to make the po's) and so on? I'd like that a lot better.
Thu Jul 23, 2009 2:12 pm
Thu Jul 23, 2009 2:41 pm
Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:10 pm
Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:21 pm
But I concur that for the playing time of the 1st pick being drafted by a bottom dweller is a good thing. For his career however not per sé.
I don't pity teams that finish last. Do better. And do a good job drafting at 14. I'm positive there will be good players available. You can put together a pretty respectable roster of players who went undrafted. Especially a couple of years ago when Big Ben and Brad Miller still had their legs.
Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:47 pm
Andrew wrote:But again, that's assuming that bottom teams can do better and can draft well at fourteen. Again, take this year for example. Would a bottom team do as well to draft Earl Clark as they would to draft Griffin? Perhaps, but we don't know that yet. It seems less likely though. You certainly can find diamonds in the rough with low draft picks and undrafted players, but the Ben Wallaces and Brad Millers of the world do not equate to the Michael Jordans, Larry Birds and Magic Johnsons et al of yesteryear, nor the Kevin Garnetts, LeBron James or Kobe Bryants of today.
Thu Jul 23, 2009 4:46 pm
If you're 30th you should be able to gradually improve anyway, if not you suck as a GM.
Thu Jul 23, 2009 4:47 pm
Perhaps it can be to a certain extent, but the way you describe it reminds me a bit of women's tennis. There can be close matches along the way but don't be surprised if the final is 6-0 6-0.
Thu Jul 23, 2009 4:49 pm
Thu Jul 23, 2009 5:20 pm
benji wrote:Perhaps it can be to a certain extent, but the way you describe it reminds me a bit of women's tennis. There can be close matches along the way but don't be surprised if the final is 6-0 6-0.
A shot or two goes the other way and the champion changes. The East was terrible, but now the East is almost more favorable than the West. It comes and goes as teams break down and rebuild.
And even the Lakers could have had three fewer titles this decade on a handful of calls going the other way.
(And also to point out, the Bulls and Rockets basically won all the titles of the 1990s, the Lakers and Celtics the 1980s, the Celtics the 1960s. But we still consider those competitive because teams like the Sonics, Blazers, Jazz, Knicks, Sixers, Bucks, Lakers, Pistons, etc. put up their own efforts at it.)
Thu Jul 23, 2009 6:05 pm
Andrew wrote:Jose Calderon, Bruce Bowen and Chris Andersen still do not measure up to the likes of the players I mentioned though.
Yes, some players do get drafted low. There's no accounting for oversight. If the teams in their respective drafts had been able to forsee how special those players would be, they wouldn't have been drafted that low.
My point remains that the teams that are at the bottom of the league are the ones that need the most help improving because they have the least trade assets and as such, it's not unreasonable that they get to select from the incoming players every year before teams that are better off. It's still up to the GM to pick the right player and surround them with talent.
If you're 30th you should be able to gradually improve anyway, if not you suck as a GM.
Not necessarily. How do you improve if you're not going to be able to get fresh talent coming in? If you have lousy players, how are you going to make trades? If you're not winning, how are you going to attract high profile free agents? There has to be some way of distributing new talent through the league and giving bad teams the chance to better themselves, and that's what the draft lottery provides. There's still a chance the team with the worst record will drop as low as fourth and the team that just misses out on the Playoffs will get the top pick, so any team that tanks does so at the risk of alienating fans and potential free agent signees alike.
Thu Jul 23, 2009 6:18 pm
I'm still wondering why other teams/the league has to provide for that. They need talent, well here it is on silver platter (providing that you pick the right one of course).
Getting the 1st pick in round 2 + mimimum 14th overall should bring in some talent.
Lousy untradeable players with bad contracts, you will have to sit them out I guess, just like now.
High profile free agents will be out of reach likely, but that doesn't mean you can't make smart moves, improvements.
Thu Jul 23, 2009 6:48 pm
Thu Jul 23, 2009 6:53 pm
Thu Jul 23, 2009 7:03 pm
Thu Jul 23, 2009 9:02 pm
If you're bottom you screwed up and you better do something smart to get out of it. If it takes five years instead of one, tough luck.
Fri Jul 24, 2009 1:57 am
Fri Jul 24, 2009 4:01 am
Sat Jul 25, 2009 11:26 am
Hedonist wrote:I don't see how that is all relevant.
You don't think the bottom dwellers get rewarded but an opportunity, but if it's the middle of the pack than you do?
Sun Jul 26, 2009 1:29 am
ratrac wrote:Hedonist, as it seems to me, you really like the system, which is held in Euro football(soccer), hence the suggestions(thoughts).
But in my opinion, this would not work for NBA, one system doesn't work for every league(or sports). I don't want to belittle the football system in Europe, rather opposite, it works brilliantly there, but the thing is unlike the NBA, there isn't just one league, there are many different leagues, 4 strong ones which I would say. Teams have their ups and downs, but the biggest clubs still remain on top(e.g. ManU, Real Madrid, Barca etc.).
But I don't think this would work for NBA, because it's one ELITE league, where huge majority of the best players in the world plays. The majority of the best players are formed into one league, while in football it's much more spread wider. Not as big clubs as the top most, also get their young bright stars until they will eventually will be sold(e.g. Torres, Rooney etc.), but they still remain mediocre.
Thing is, if the team sucks, just like Andrew brought an example, it's not easy to become at least mediocre, because no one wants to go there, they don't have any trade assets etc(what Andrew said). Which would eventually lead to death of salary cap(or if not, then overpaying their players big time, like Daye for 15$mil/per year, just to maintain some of their talent, which they already lack, because they need to fill their seats somehow, even if they get some good players, they do not have interest in staying, because they don't want to lose all the time, unlike current bad teams(who will eventually get some bright time), those bad(actually awful) remain as awful teams), because the bottom teams doesn't have a chance to invest their money to anybody and after some time they just give to some players very bad contracts, because there is a limit, how low the salary cap can be, you need to fill that(I think it's something 43$M currently, you can't have your salary cap lower than that), hence you will remain sucky(I dare to say that for some teams after 5 years, getting 10 wins would be an achievment, if this 'experiment' would be taken place).