Chicago Bulls Thread

[Valor]

We are winning against the Lakers at half time...62-48
comon Bulls!!

[puttincomputers]

the bulls lost. grrr... After seeing the box score i would say that gordon is expendable now.

[Andrew]

I saw it coming after the Lakers stormed back in the third. Disappointing, but I wasn't expecting them to win either.

After seeing the box score i would say that gordon is expendable now.

And I would say that's an utterly ridiculous suggestion. He has an off game where Salmons scores 30 and you decide he's unquestionably expendable? I'm sorry but that's just laughable. But hey, if the boxscore from one game proves anything, Derrick Rose is also expendable; in fact, trade that bust as soon as this offseason.

Whether or not Gordon is capable of being "the man" is irrelevant here. Why go with one or the other when you could have both? Why thin out an already lean roster when there's no absolute need to choose between one or the other, at least at this juncture? Why not try to keep as many of the pieces that are working out more often than not as they possibly can?

[puttincomputers]

good point

[Andrew]

Of course, that's not to say it can't or won't come to that but I just don't think we should subscribe to the notion that it absolutely has to be that way. My preference is for Gordon to be brought back but as part of a familiar rotation, rather than being instead of anyone.

[NovU]

Hope puttincomputers learned his lesson. You don't diss Gordon in this thread, or anywhere Andrew is around.

I honestly thought CHA and CHI would be tied at 8th by today, but Indiana did a favor for CHI. Rout by IND was not something I was expecting since CHA looked hot lately.

[Andrew]

Well he's not above criticism, I certainly don't mean to imply that. But he gets written off far too quickly in my opinion.

[air gordon]

Dude I just want your honest opinion with no bailouts/leaving it open ended. Almost all your posts start with a premise then you add “but….”. I understand covering both sides of an argument though when I’m done reading your posts it seems like you didn’t even take a stand/come to a conclusion

You think Gordon should get $65-70 mil (though how many yrs?). stick with it! Don’t cop out and say well it’s easy for me to say/I don’t want to get into specifics but it could get ridiculous lol

Forget thabo- how about larry hughes lol? He left the bulls and scored 39pts in one game! Plus he’s now starting for the knicks.

Try avoid panty bunching. You give a guy more shots, he’s bound to score more points (even if he still shoots 43%). Heck last year in the 2nd half of the season Sefolosha’s fg% was 49 and he hit 40% of 3’s. For thabo’s skills/production/salary/playing time, the chances are good that the bulls can find a similar (maybe even better) player with the draft pick they received in the trade

I say keep Gordon. As you said earlier, the bulls have a lot of $ tied up on other players. They should make a trade. So…Hinirch is solid, just not worth $ he’s getting. Trade him for a backup PG and expiring contracts. Salmons is an excellent stop gap player. I think that he could opt out/be trade bait should Gordon be resigned (and Deng is still on the roster)

What is “that breathing room” suggested in the previous post hehe

A big team like the Lakers is a nightmare matchup for Gordon/Bulls. If it wasn’t Bryant, it was Ariza posting him up. Heck even Walton posted up on hinrich lol. The worst part about it was Gordon couldn’t get going on offense

even if the Lakers are a title contender, they should have won that game. they blew it in the 3rd &4th when Bryant was on the bench. not only did they give up the lead to the backups, the game was broken open too. Gasol is stil soft as oatmeal....

[Andrew]

If I've been unclear, let me state it in plain terms.

Plan for Gordon:
Re-sign him

Salary:
In the range of $65-70 million, give or take (if he'll sign for slightly more or slightly less, so be it)

Contract Length:
With that salary (and in terms of their talent pool longterm), six. Five would be fine, but it would be worse from a salary standpoint so I really think six.

Unless you want me to specify an exact number like $65.37 mil over six years with a player option after the fourth year, I believe I've been as specific as it's possible to be at this time. And of course if he'll sign for $60 mil over five years, so be it, but I think he's going to angle for more and as such, $65-70 million seems a reasonable range to me.

Forget thabo- how about larry hughes lol? He left the bulls and scored 39pts in one game! Plus he’s now starting for the knicks.

Fair enough, but Hughes is a known team cancer who has this good performances when he goes to a new team and then wears out his welcome. Getting rid of him had become necessary, much like Ben Wallace last year.

Try avoid panty bunching. You give a guy more shots, he’s bound to score more points (even if he still shoots 43%). Heck last year in the 2nd half of the season Sefolosha’s fg% was 49 and he hit 40% of 3’s. For thabo’s skills/production/salary/playing time, the chances are good that the bulls can find a similar (maybe even better) player with the draft pick they received in the trade

No one's "panty bunching" here, I just mentioned it in passing as something to speculate on. Homerish as it is I hope that trading him doesn't end up looking like a mistake in a few year's time, obviously it's early days right now and I'm not going to make that call before he's proven himself over a whole season playing alongside Durant and Green on a regular basis but I do wonder what might have been and what might be. I don't think he would've been a star with the Bulls and I'm not convinced he'll be a star with the Thunder (or anyone else for that matter) but I wonder whether he could've become a more solid backup in Chicago. I suppose given the circumstances I should just move on.

[Andrew]

Close call against the Wizards but they had the win when the final buzzer sounded and a road victory is nothing to sneeze at this season.

[NovU]

What an impressive win over Detroit without Rose in the line up. Even though, Hinrich didn't get fans free big macs, great performance.

[Andrew]

Shouldn't have been so close though, the Pistons outscored them 18-7 beginning at the 5:42 mark of the fourth. Still, the lead wasn't completely blown and they edge a bit further away from Charlotte and Milwaukee and a bit closer to the seventh spot. It wouldn't be much of a reward for moving up, going from the Cavs to the Celtics but with all things essentially being equal there as far as their chances of winning are concerned - even one stray game to avoid a sweep - I'd obviously enjoy it more if they finisher higher. It's not going to impact the draft very much, the low seeds in the West are ahead of them so we're talking about them being one pick lower. Doesn't really matter when they're not in the lottery.

[Andrew]

Another fine and timely win, currently placing them seventh on a tiebreaker. One can't help but feel a little better about their chances of holding onto at least the eighth spot and extend their season into the first round of the Playoffs.

[Andrew]

Disappointing OT loss to the Raptors in Toronto but by rights they probably should've lost in regulation. As it turned out they had a decent shot to win it but as usual didn't get the job done as road and home games continue to be night and day. That drops them back to 8th but still ahead of Charlotte by a couple of games. Milwaukee looks to be out of it, even if they haven't been mathematically eliminated as yet.

[air gordon]

Thanks for the straight up answer

I get annoyed whenever someone is going on about former Bulls are “doing well”... or saying something along the lines of Pax let a good player get away. Thabo has proven to be more valuable as a fantasy player then reality (he’ll probably win some teams some fantasy championships lol). Maybe he develops a jumper or some kind of move over in OKC but as I said earlier the bulls could find a similar player with the draft pick received in the trade

Andrew- what leads you to speculate that Sefalosha could have been better then a “solid backup”?

The Salmons injury… got my fingers crossed it won’t linger

[NovU]

I get annoyed whenever someone is going on about former Bulls are “doing well”... or saying something along the lines of Pax let a good player get away.

but but... i been saying that a lot about the bulls since the day mj's era was over.

The Salmons injury… got my fingers crossed it won’t linger

Yeah, two problems. Groin and foot. I wonder if he will be 100% by the playoffs. The Bulls' chance for the playoffs looks promising at the moment. It'd be smart to give Salmons rest whenever possible.

[shadowgrin]

Yes, all the Bulls need to be healthy if they make the playoffs in order to stop that juggernaut known as LeBron and the Cavaliers.

[Andrew]

Andrew- what leads you to speculate that Sefalosha could have been better then a “solid backup”?

Honestly, wishful thinking. You'd see "flashes of brilliance", he'd pull off a nifty move with the ball or make a good defensive play and have some good games here and there and it would lead me to think "This guy's got a lot of potential, if only it can come together". He's a big guard too so it just seemed promising. I must admit my reaction to his numbers early on with the Thunder was a bit of a knee-jerk but at the end of the day, I guess it was just my wishful thinking and disappointment that it didn't work out.

Just a quick clarification though, I said a more solid backup, not more than a solid backup. I had visions of him becoming a good player, a reliable backup at two and three but I definitely wasn't sold on him being more than that at some point.

[air gordon]

I get annoyed whenever someone is going on about former Bulls are “doing well”... or saying something along the lines of Pax let a good player get away.

but but... i been saying that a lot about the bulls since the day mj's era was over.

since Pax has taken over.. who?

Yes, all the Bulls need to be healthy if they make the playoffs in order to stop that juggernaut known as LeBron and the Cavaliers

nah it's a 1st round exit regardless...and DelNegro doesn't know how to deal with a player rotation more then 7

speaking of VDN... i know this sounds ridiculous- but if the bulls make the playoffs, i think he warrants some votes for coach of the year. consider this:

a rookie coach a gets young team into playoffs despite several key players missing a lot of games due to injury. Doc Rivers won coach of the year doing the same thing- but IIRC his team had less injuries

andrew-
honestly i think right now Thabo skills would be useful with the current bulls team. he'd still be a 1 dimensional player but there would be more easier shots for him on offense. but he really needs to learn to hit that outside jumper. with the offense the bulls run- they need their 2 & 3 to be able to hit the 3/space out the defense... which is probably why Deng struggles to score

[Andrew]

No question, that's one of the things I was hoping would happen in Chicago, that his jumpshot would become more dependable and he'd at least have that going consistently when called upon.

[shadowgrin]

speaking of VDN... i know this sounds ridiculous- but if the bulls make the playoffs, i think he warrants some votes for coach of the year. consider this:

a rookie coach a gets young team into playoffs despite several key players missing a lot of games due to injury. Doc Rivers won coach of the year doing the same thing- but IIRC his team had less injuries

But he also had no known "stars" during that time. He only had a relatively unknown Darrell Armstrong when he won that award with the Magic. And his team didn't make the playoffs.

[Andrew]

If the Bulls do make the playoffs, Del Negro might get some consideration and pick up a few votes but I reckon the focus will remain on coaches of teams with better records. With the Cavs posting a franchise best record that they're still adding to, Mike Brown's my prediction for COY.

[benji]

Ben Wallace. Bo Outlaw. That team was deep even with so many minutes for Amaechi, Oliver Saint-Jean and Mercer.

Coaches of the Year are won by misperception of actual team's talents. It's how Carlisle and most other coaches win. The Bulls are perceived to have stars in Gordon, Deng, one of the five greatest defenders in NBA history in Kirk Hinrich, along with HALL OF FAMER Derrick Rose. (While overlooking the awesome that is Joakim Noah, and the laugher that was replacing Gooden and Hughes with Salmons and Miller. Overnight turning a crap offense into an average one.)

I also like Tony DiLeo for turning the Sixers around, or Scott Brooks for turning Durant into a legit superstar. But we know it's going to be Mike Brown.

[shadowgrin]

That team is indeed deep.
It's like a roster of preferred roleplayers during that time, but iirc it was the "he had no stars in his team yet was still able to challenge for a playoff spot despite being expected to be one of the worst teams in the league" reasoning that made Doc won the award. Which is perfectly inline with your statement above.

I want Larry Brown to win the award if the 'cats make the playoffs. Screw Mike Brown.

[Andrew]

Close call against the Knicks but they avoided the collapse and stand alone in seventh place, barely. They haven't clinched yet but with three of the last four at home they have a good opportunity to take care of business. Let's watch...