Some questions about PS2 version.

[J-Kidd05]

i havent got the game yet. but in the issues sticky, it was mentioned by one of the users that computer substitutions is once again non existent.

it mentioned that they made no subs in a 12 minute game, did it mean 12 minute quarter? it also mentioned it's something similar in live 08.

reason im posting is because, i've got live 08 and the cpu substitutions are pretty normal for me, in fact they sometimes subbed more than i did but in live 07, they didn't sub at all like mentioned in the issues sticky. so i'm abit confused.

so can anyone else clarify this for me?

also finally. how is the sim engine? do forwards and centers dominant the assists leaders? are superstar players still averaging 37 to 40 points a game?

thanks for reading!

[Cleveland wins]

I have 09 for the ps2 and they do sub but not very often and i mean not not not very often. In fact i did a fantasy draft i forgot the teams but, the computer team had ray allen and stephon marbury in the entire game. Even though i set the slider for the cpu substition to 100 percent. I think they left elton brand in there the entire game as well and it seems like the same people score. But personally i find game play to be great, but it does seem like getting steals at least for me is as easy as it was in 07. In fact i had lebron james in the same fantasy draft and he got at least 15 steals! I think i had it on an easy level though.

[J-Kidd05]

I have 09 for the ps2 and they do sub but not very often and i mean not not not very often. In fact i did a fantasy draft i forgot the teams but, the computer team had ray allen and stephon marbury in the entire game. Even though i set the slider for the cpu substition to 100 percent. I think they left elton brand in there the entire game as well and it seems like the same people score. But personally i find game play to be great, but it does seem like getting steals at least for me is as easy as it was in 07. In fact i had lebron james in the same fantasy draft and he got at least 15 steals! I think i had it on an easy level though.

thanks alot for the response man. the fact that the CPU teams will keep the star players on the court for the entire game is really annoying. i was actually quite happy with the fatigue and sub frequency in 08.

stealing has always been a problem with live i think. i average about 7 steals a game with Iverson on superstar mode for live 08.

what about the sim engine? are the stats more realistic this yr?

[Cleveland wins]

In a way yes in another way no here's what i mean. Most of the times there are more steals than blocks, you can still hardly ever get more than 3 or 4 steals and 2 blocks per game but, scoring has gone down just a little. Most of the time players score at least 20 to 35 points per game, i haven't really seen any players score above 40 that much it doesn't happen that often at least not the times i've simulated. But i have seen in simulation chauncy billups score 60 even points. But playmaking point gaurds do get their assists now, i've seen chris paul, luke ridnoure and others get their assists. But centers and power forwards still shoot a bunch of 3s and they make them. But if you didn't see my post about rookie improvements, it was an upgrade this year, rookies actually improve and don't decline until they get old like its always been. The most steals and blocks in simulation that i've seen are 6 steals and i think it was 7 blocks. But simulation scoring isn't as bad as it was in 08, but as i've said the biggest improvement overall that i've seen in the game is the fact that rookies improve and don't decline. That was what i disliked the most about 08. I love training rookies.

[J-Kidd05]

i know what you mean about rookies. i had durant on my 08 dynasty. he was a bench player by the time i got the into 3rd or 4th yr and i had spent entire seasons training him. for the most part i can somewhat deal with that. but the fatigue and sub frequency is my biggest concern, it takes all the realism out when the cpu doesn't change its line up for the entire game. and by the sounds of things the sim engine still has some minor issues, billups should never be scoring 60 in a game!

thanks again for the info. you just saved me $40 i think. lol

[fjccommish]

#1 the subs are not working correctly. Some players stay in the whole game for the CPU, often the PG. For my team, no auto subs were made in entire 12 minute quarter games, and players recover stamina far too quickly.

There are also hardly any fouls. With all sliders at maximum there are 5 or 6 fouls (shooting) in an entire 12 minute quarter game. It's easy to get reach in fouls if the slider is turned to the max.

"also finally. how is the sim engine? do forwards and centers dominant the assists leaders? are superstar players still averaging 37 to 40 points a game? "

The sim engine still has forwards and centers dominating in assists. Players average far too many points. For example, over half a season Dirk Nowitski averaged 45 PPG in 9 minute quarter games.

That's another problem. Sim quarter length and play quarter length have to be the same. There aren't separate settings. You can either sim 12 minute quarters to at least get close to realistic rebound, assist, steal averages for players (with scoring way way too high) but then have to play 12 minute quarter games where 150 point games aren't uncommon (scores like 150-145.) Or you can sim 9 minute quarter games where the simmed teams average 85PPG, fewer but still too many PPG for leaders, but way low rebounds and assists, with more realistic scores and numbers for the games you play.\

Get it? In the past I would sim 12 minutes but play 9 minutes, or whatever it was for somewhat reasonable games. But now there's one slider for both.

The game play is somewhat improved, but here are two huge problems.

Even with the shooting sliders turned to 0 for short, medium and long shots, the CPU will average over 60% shooting every game, and so will I. Part of the reason is far too many layups and dunks (see below for why.) But part of the reason is even wit,h shooting sliders all the way down outside shooting is far too accurate.

Problem 2 is it's way too easy to get to the basket. I tried a game at superstar, all defensive sliders turned up to max, to drive to the hoop every time with a pretty poor PG. I scored 95% of the time, even amongst the trees. I just waltzed right into the paint, the CPU defenders often just ignoring me.

The PS2 game is a nightmare.

[J-Kidd05]

man i really wish they would just make a game without so many mistakes. they've done it before, i don't see why they can't do it again. i was really looking forward to getting '09 this yr but it really looks like it isn't worth the frustration. it sucks because i've heard the 360 and PS3 versions are nothing less of amazing.

[Andrew]

I picked up the PS2 version mainly just to review it and thus far I would suggest you don't bother if you're an NBA Live geek (and I use the term positively, as I'd describe myself as such). A few things have improved but with the substitution problems and sim engine issues you're not going to enjoy the game if you're after a product that decently reflects the real NBA.

[dascoot]

I liked 08 because of the fact that there were more computer substitutions. I haven't played this yet but I'm going to rent this first after reading this reviews to see my own opinions on this.

[megidoflare]

I liked 08 because of the fact that there were more computer substitutions. I haven't played this yet but I'm going to rent this first after reading this reviews to see my own opinions on this.

YUP. Live 08 had pretty decent sub patterns. Have to check the ones in Live 09 myself (darn game retailer, they don't have the PS2 version yet )

[Andrew]

NBA Live 08's substitution patterns were better after a bit of tweaking but the Fatigue/Substitutions haven't worked all that well on last gen since NBA Live 06.

[megidoflare]

yup. I agree that Live 06 was pretty nifty. I can even say that Live 06 is the best NBA Live game for the PS2 (with Live 08 coming in at 2nd, IMO).

[Andrew]

It's my favourite last gen version for sure. I quite liked NBA Live 08 on the Xbox 360 though and I'm definitely a fan of the 360 version of 09 as well.

[megidoflare]

I picked up the PS2 version mainly just to review it and thus far I would suggest you don't bother if you're an NBA Live geek (and I use the term positively, as I'd describe myself as such). A few things have improved but with the substitution problems and sim engine issues you're not going to enjoy the game if you're after a product that decently reflects the real NBA.

I cannot believe Live 09 reverted back to the Live 07 engine. Why didn't they use Live 08's????

Oh well, I'll still be playing this anyways and I hope that I can tweak the settings a bit to make it more enjoyable

[Andrew]

They didn't. NBA Live 07 didn't have (as big) a problem with simulated stats as NBA Live 08 did. NBA Live 09 is closer to NBA Live 08 in that respect.

[megidoflare]

ohh okay.

But I'm still disappointed with the sub bug though. I thought when it wass "fixed" in 08 everything would be fine in 09. Guess not

[Andrew]

It wasn't really fixed last year though it was arguably slightly better than in NBA Live 07.

[J-Kidd05]

it's just proves it's all about the money. i mean surely they can not be happy with the game having some of basic issues which have been around since nba live 07. it's a shame because 09 will probably be the last of the series for ps2.....hopefully i'm wrong as i don't plan on upgrading to next gen anytime soon.

[megidoflare]

It wasn't really fixed last year though it was arguably slightly better than in NBA Live 07.

well for me I really though that last year's sub patterns were WAY BETTER than 07.

anyways, during my first playthrough in 09, my team did not sub one bit. I had to do it manually. The CPU team had 4 subs though. (7 minute game, default sliders)

[Morzikei]

still better than 07, one sub per 15 dynasty games(6 minute quarters), I think, not counting injuries, the impossible fouling-out (even with the limit being 5)... and the subs are only caused through extremely poor performance, not fatigue - so if you forced a starter on the bench - you've really outdone yourself

fatigue is a little better than 08. at least in Play Now, then it goes really low and if you're struggling for that 8th place - gonna be tough with your team all squeezed out... but around mid-season normal patterns can be established (manually), of course, this may be on the account of me playing with the Pacers and only O'Neal not having fatigue problems (20 games to the post-season, however, and he too can't play a full 24 game (stamina regenerates at half-time, but the minutes are counted))

if only I had the patience to play longer games