Substitution Fix 1.4 RIP papa jack 1983-2008

Here's my patch post :
http://www.speedyshare.com/502675761.html
or
http://www.sendspace.com/file/f0v23f

Better fatigue ratings distribution for starters & bench.
Designed to realistic subsitution for CPU teams.
Compatible to any roster patch. (NLSC, RR, NBA 2008, Europe League, Precise, Kris' etc.)
Noticeably efficient fatigue replenishment upon time-out calls.

Here's my game setup guide :
2-5 mins + 40-50 gamespeed + 50 substitution slider = set "High" to Fatigue Effect slider
6-9 mins + 40-50 gamespeed + 50 substitution slider = set "Normal" to Fatigue Effect slider
10-12 mins + 40-50 gamespeed + 50 substitution slider = set "Low" to Fatigue Effect slider

Credits :
Thanks to Kris, Deathbringer, Pdub, Andrew, Jimmy and all patchers for giving valuable feedbacks.

Last edited by Maek on Wed Jul 30, 2008 2:25 am, edited 11 times in total.

I agree, the fatigue ratings need to be edited. They have a direct effect on players being subbed out early.

Hey Andrew, after editing your Official roster with the fatigue setup on above mentioned, EVERYONE SUBSTITUTED CORRECTLY or almost. Try it guys, I think a CDBF editing file will do the job.

Hope this can help!

Hey Andrew, after editing your Official roster with the fatigue setup on above mentioned, EVERYONE SUBSTITUTED CORRECTLY or almost. Try it guys, I think a CDBF editing file will do the job.

Hope this can help!

u mean this one fix ?

Yes, what Maek said works. I think the problem with Live 08 is that the computer is over-sensitive to fatigue ratings and will sub players out even if their ratings are just a little low. This is combined with slightly different interpretations for PF/C's and PG, SG, SF. Hope Andrew can incorporate this into his next roster update.

Hey Maek, post that fix!

Thanks for the research Maek, I'll give that a shot.

Hey Andrew, after editing your Official roster with the fatigue setup on above mentioned, EVERYONE SUBSTITUTED CORRECTLY or almost. Try it guys, I think a CDBF editing file will do the job.

Hope this can help!

Could you post your players.dbf file?
Or, at least, which is your substitutions sliders (player/cpu), your fatigue slider (off, low, normal, high) and your quarter lenght?

Actually, that's a good point. What quarter length were you testing those tweaks with Maek?

The concern with having stamina so close together is that backup players will be sub in and they will stay in for long time. For example, Y. Ming stamina will be 62 and Motumbo will be 56. There is not a big gape. Once Yao gets sub, Motumbo will play almost as much length before getting tire. In the org, yao is 83 and Motumbo is 50 so that when Yao gets sub, motumbo will only come in for several mins and sub Yao back in.

Very true. Additionally, if those ratings are geared towards five minute or eight minute quarters (for example) they may not be appropriate for 12 minute quarters.

I tested it and it turns out stamina has only little to do with sub. I played against Boston and Perkins & KG was sub out within 5 min., KG not even low on stamina. Pierce in 2nd quarter then Allen at end of 2nd quarter and Rondo played the whole first half. Even though Rondo's stamina was getting really low, CPU didn't even bother to sub him out. It's a bug! Unfortunately, we probably won't be able to crush this bug easily. Even if we get this sub issue resolved, we still got the shitty sim engine which will still make this game unplayable. ANDRAW, YOU SHOULD JUST CLOSE THIS SITE DOWN AND LIKE THE REST OF US, GIVE UP ON LIVE AND MOVE TO CONSOLE! I aren't touching this game anymore until a patch comes out!

Could you post your players.dbf file?
Or, at least, which is your substitutions sliders (player/cpu), your fatigue slider (off, low, normal, high) and your quarter lenght?

Can't post my players.dbf because I have different settings in my rosters. . .I've edited the Official roster. I have to try to create a CDBF edit file so that you just have to run it and edit your fatigue ratings.

The concern with having stamina so close together is that backup players will be sub in and they will stay in for long time. For example, Y. Ming stamina will be 62 and Motumbo will be 56. There is not a big gape. Once Yao gets sub, Motumbo will play almost as much length before getting tire. In the org, yao is 83 and Motumbo is 50 so that when Yao gets sub, motumbo will only come in for several mins and sub Yao back in.

Yeah, I am also experiencing these. But what I got is the closest substitution fix. Maybe we can still give a further evaluation about the ratings of fatigue. Add additional (+5 for starters) ratings so that they can have bigger mins.

Very true. Additionally, if those ratings are geared towards five minute or eight minute quarters (for example) they may not be appropriate for 12 minute quarters.

I have indicated my settings right from the start of the thread.

for 8mins/50gamespeed/normal stamina/autosub/50 subs-gameplay slider :
PG/SG - they don't sub until almost the end of 2nd quarter.
C/PF/SF - they sub after 2mins of 1st quarter.

*This is because there's an imbalance fatigue ratings for every team/player. And some are way too high/low.

I'll try to give a shot the starter effect.

Also, I used the palyers.dbf file of Andrew's roster and applied the fatigue values in the first post (position 0, 1 and 2 from 50 to 65 and position 3 and 4 from 45 to 60). I played Detroit-Minnesota with 10 min. quarter, substitutions sliders at 99 both for user and cpu, fatigue level at high, autosub on, and Billups (PG), Hamilton (G), Foye (PG) and McCants (G) played 10+10+10+10= 40 minutes on 40.
So I think that this bug is very hard to solve, I hope in a official patch; last year too, the original Nba07 has a substitution bug, fixed with the official patch.

Also, I used the palyers.dbf file of Andrew's roster and applied the fatigue values in the first post (position 0, 1 and 2 from 50 to 65 and position 3 and 4 from 45 to 60). I played Detroit-Minnesota with 10 min. quarter, substitutions sliders at 99 both for user and cpu, fatigue level at high, autosub on, and Billups (PG), Hamilton (G), Foye (PG) and McCants (G) played 10+10+10+10= 40 minutes on 40.
So I think that this bug is very hard to solve, I hope in a official patch; last year too, the original Nba07 has a substitution bug, fixed with the official patch.

Atleast we've tried to fix the sustitution bug in this year's version. Let's just hope that the fix from EA will be released.

But for now, this fix can be used by everyone. Instead of the default setup.

Sorry Maek, my mistake; I should've looked a bit closer. I'd prefer to gear any adjustments to 12 minute quarters if possible, if those scales are optimised for eight minute quarters only then they should still be a good starting point for 12 minute quarters.

No problem Andrew .

I have updated the fatigue ratings on the first post and it's doing the trick. . .but not so perfect. I think I have to raise the overall fatigue with another +5. Because when I play 8mins-normal fatigue-40 gamespeed, after the 50% of the 1st quarter the PG got substituted as well as other position though they're not that tired yet. Maybe increasing their fatigues for another +5 will do the job.

Until I'm finish this and be satisfied, I will not post any patch. But I think I'm quite close to it. I just need to master the batch file. Can you explain it to me detailed and step-by-step. . .sorry Andrew, but this can be a big help for me to help others.

Thanks!

I'm tring to do what you said in the first post, but in db commander when I try to make a query I had an error using the POSITION field in the WHERE statement... does it happenes even to you? and how do you solve it?

Sorry for my BAD english, I'm Italian...

I just filter :
Team = 'X'

Where in:
(x : team number. . .can be 0 to 29).

Try it. And hopefully someone can teach me the step-by-step in creating a bat file so that I can post a fix.

Thanks!

here you go, i made this one

http://www.speedyshare.com/745207837.html

here you go, i made this one

http://www.speedyshare.com/745207837.html

On which database have you made it?

here you go, i made this one

http://www.speedyshare.com/745207837.html

What are the details of this one?

For Guards

51-60 ratings 45 fatigue
61-70 ratings 48 fatigue
71-80 ratings 54 fatigue
81-90 ratings 57 fatigue
91-99 ratings 60 fatigue

for front court players

60 - 51 = 50
70 - 61 = 53
80 - 71 = 59
90 - 81 = 62
99 - 91 = 65

hey deathbringer, your fix is almost perfect. but after experimenting with it I would agree with maek that all the ratings need to be increased +5 and that should be just right. Right now the substitutions are too early and often.