NBA Live 08 Graphic Comparison

[Ruthless Outlaw]

http://www.sportsgamer.com/content/964/

Very nice read.

[Jing]

Everyone is getting on Live's case about the floating shorts an the skinny thighs.. nice.

[cheater1034]

IMO, Live's graphics will be perfect if they fix the shorts/thighs/knees.

Hopefully the graphics aren't the only good thing about the game again though.

[benji]

IMO, Live's graphics will be perfect if they fix the shorts/thighs/knees.

And the animation...and the way it looks in motion...and the surrounding arenas...

[cheater1034]

IMO, Live's graphics will be perfect if they fix the shorts/thighs/knees.

And the animation...and the way it looks in motion...and the surrounding arenas...

The animation is A LOT smoother, it runs at 60 FPS, it looks pretty damn good in motion if you ask me.

What's wrong with the surrounding arenas? They're great except they're too dark (for better FPS, not a big deal anyway)

[ThaLiveKing]

I watched the vids. . and noticed clipping whenever the shorts move. . Maybe it's in EAs best interests to rduced those shorts

[benji]

The animation is A LOT smoother, it runs at 60 FPS, it looks pretty damn good in motion if you ask me.

I think it looks slightly better than Live 2003 in motion, and infact features most of the same animations. It certainly does not look anywhere near "perfect" or even "great" more like "above average." 2K7 on the PS2 still looks better in motion.

[maceo24]

Meh, the 2k series still feels slightly unnatural to me. The player weighting system is cool and all but alot of times its that canned "slow from run to stop" thing over and over again. moving the ball from one wing to another as a pg just plain feels weird. Live isnt inherently 'Better' at this, it (the animation) doesnt feel as forced. Guess what I'm trying to say is: Smooth isnt always natural, and in 2ks case it kinda hinders responsiveness.

[benji]

We weren't talking about gameplay, Live's decision that my entry pass to a post player was actually a pass for him to relay to an outside player feels weird too but we weren't talking about that. We were talking about the way the game looks, and I believe 2K looks far more natural in motion.

Everything in 2K looks natural in context of the players doing what you expect, players don't soar backwards after rebounds. Players don't stop and hold the ball with one hand up in the air for a half a second before making their move. It's hilarious that Quickstrike Trailer touts the "animation blending" while showing off a good number of the terrible transition animations in Live. I mean look at Cassell defend at the end of it he basically takes a step back without moving his body, it's the same sliding from the old games only he has more leg animation frames.

And that's just focusing on one player. When you account for all ten players and all the subtle animations, 2K looks like a game in action, Live looks like a video game. Live may look better in individual situations and when the players aren't moving. Which might explain why they often just stand there.

[jstrick14]

we arent talking about gameplay because the thread is about the screenshots.

[maceo24]

but you yourself brought up the animation... I was responding to where the conversation was already headed.

Point taken though, I did say that Live was not exactly good either, did I not? Just that IMO the "smoothness" from 2k dictates the action as it is scripted and animated to do so. At the cost of responsiveness.

Live is a very disjointed game, but it lends to the user being able to do more things "randomly". In the preservance of the randomness of the sport, some things can't be that smooth. THeyre just arent enough animations they could include for everything to be smooth. To be honest i am willing to over look SOME of those points if as a whole, it coveys a realistic game of basketball. The whole backwards jumping thing, well, that plain sucked.

jstrick you just joined. So i guess its safe to say that You werent talking about about much of anything. So much for piggybacking.

[benji]

I don't see how Live lets you do anything randomly? You have no more freedom in Live than you do in 2K, perhaps even less because of the gameplay quirks.

I was talking about how Live will jump from one animation to another, while 2K transitions between them. You can't in real life be going one way making a certainly move and then suddenly jerk all your muscles and bones in your body another direction. Now if this was 2002, I'd be saying the opposite, EA had transitions then, and 2K was missing a good number of them and forcing you into animations. After 2K5/2005 that changed, Live now is the icky animated one.

I don't get it because seven years ago EA was talking about finally being able to use IK. And I see about fifty times as much in 2K.

[maceo24]

2ks transitions into different animations take too long though. There is no such thing as a quick dribble move in 2k because the transitions take longer than the actual move should. In that way I prefer the gameplay of live more because a quick move should be exactly that - a quick move. Now whether they fix the animations and transitions for the quick moves is yet to be seen (as of now, no) but the speed of moves of something that 2k doesn't fully do the actual moves justice. To be honest, if 2k had the responsiveness of Live's controls it would be perfect. Likewise if Live had 2ks physics it too would be close to perfect. both have graphic issues, but they both look good enough for me to not really care anymore.

[jstrick14]

hey maceo, do you think the transitions and what not should be fixed with the game now running at 60fps? i ask because im not to sure.

[maceo24]

I hope so, but its not shaping up that way. Even if its running at 60fps, if the animation to smoothly go from one crossover to the next just isnt there, well, it just aint there. It will be much more livable because of the 60fps, but that disjointed feel will still be there. I for one will lok past this until they fix it, because Id rather have it a little disjointed but have absolute control over the move than to be sucked into an animation that limits the time you can make a move. Regardless of how smooth it looks. Anybody remember when 2k series used to make a player pribble through his legs when he was standing still for no reason at all? Looked great (sorta), but rediculously inefficient for a player to do, and outright irritating watching it all game long.

One thing's for certain.... Either one of these games is better than NBA 08....That game is NEVER going to be good.

[Patr1ck]

How could this guy say Live's jerseys look painted on? Just because they aren't inaccurately-preferred-hover-jerseys like 2k8's?

benji, what's IK stand for?

[cheater1034]

How could this guy say Live's jerseys look painted on? Just because they aren't inaccurately-preferred-hover-jerseys like 2k8's?

I agree, the live jersey's are more accurate and look more realistic than 2k's to me, 2k's don't look painted on because they hover over the player himself.

Live's jerseys are about perfect IMO, they need to improve other things, but the jerseys are great.

They don't look painted on to me.

[ThaLiveKing]

They are not painted on. . maybe he's talking about current gen cause those look painted on!!!

[[Q]]

if they want it "painted on", they should buy Live 98 instead of 08. that's the true meaning of painted on.

[Ruthless Outlaw]

I don't understand why people are hating on the jersey's in Live. I think they are pretty good. The coloring can be fixed a little (New Orleans Jersey), but the texture is very nice and I think that the texture puts the Live jersey over the top of 2k. I also don't understand the<OKC> badge on the jersey in Live. I am pretty sure the Hornets will be playing at New Orleans full time this upcoming season. Even the skin texture and lighting favor Live. Graphically I think Live will be great, other than the legs and shorts. Now all we have to do is wait for more info on features and game play. I am really looking forward to the Dynasty mode, it's July 31 today, I though we were getting info on dynasty by the end of July.

[Sauru]

yeah the lack of dynasty info really sucks but oh well.

[cam]

benji, what's IK stand for?

It's a term for animation controls.

IK, Inverse Kinematics. FK forward Kinematics.

FK is just a simple bone system where you rotate bones around one by one, positioning a character.

IK allows you to pull whole sections of bones (ie limbs) with one handle and a 'pole vector'. In simple terms, you can grab a characters hand and pull him. and his joints will all pull correctly towards that point.

I'm not good at explaining.......... so,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccyYEJ6La1o

an example of an IK rig.

[cheater1034]

I hope 2k8 fixes their jersey physics, If they fix the player faces and jersey physics it would be pretty good.

When walking, jerseys don't bounce up and down, they just bounce up and down it looks crazy, also the shorts fold so the players look they they always have boners.

[hokupguy]

well i hope live finally get all the nba arena in the game. No TD North Bank, American Airlines Center or Continail Air lines Arena. And fix some that are in the game like At&T center and Conesco Filed house. I dont see why there has been an issue the almost spot on the current gen.