Historic Rosters (2008-09)

[dwayne2005]

For the record, I done up the face fix patch .bkr file for 2000, 2001 and 2003 which will insert random iscreated player faces. However, I could not find the custom details in the later games, and I prefer not knowing, I have too much on my hands. I gather the iscreated ID is stored in another file in those games, which would mean I can't do it in the same manner anyway. I am going to look at changing the way I 'sell' this patch. I want to convey that it is not complete and ready to run from the download. It is rather ready to try. Re-ranging the skill attributes and perhaps reformulating them has become essential I feel, even without details others might consider essential like faces. I still have to set aside a full morning to coming up with some example rough 'realism' ranges for 2004, 2005 and 06 NBAL games to get the NBA Live games to output somewhat realistic results. I'm in the middle of making up for lost gaming time and am tied up with Curse of Monkey Island, Half-Life 2, Left 4 Dead, Bioshock, Stalker, various Command & Conquer, etc.

I could not get NBA Live 99 to work. The keyboard is unresponsive in setting controls and getting past the scoreboard screen. Even though it's otherwise more compatible with XP than NBA Live 2000 and 2001 are, I am not at the moment considering expanding it for that anyway. I need to clean up a few files (I need to switch "Magic Johnson" in the 2000 conversion file to "Earvin Johnson" to match his NBA Live 2000 data and also need to clear up simple stuff and rewrite some text instructions including adapting all instructions to recommend Open Office 3.1 which has finally been released that fixes .dbf output errors) and get these example ranges out and maybe then call it quits. I still might do some Australian NBL seasons if I can be bothered.

[dwayne2005]

Maybe because I'm terrible at it, but NBA Live 2004 is the only one I'm getting to reasonably accurately sim 12 minute quarters by re-ranging the values. I'm taking about the right number of shots, shooting at about the right FG% and teams are accumalating around 12 rebounds in a quarter tops. Scores typically range from 22-30 points per 12 minute quarter.

I barely touched this one before.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLxdXIms-2g

[JaoSming]

well that is because 2004 is awesome

have you considered giving the generic/draft/CAP faces to your players instead of the black faces? It is pretty easy to do and have random in 2004

[dwayne2005]

Which values are they? I'd definitely like to include it in my 'face fix' .bkr file.

I've been focusing on ranging values in NBA Live 2005, then trying to get some realism settings to accomodate it. I've gotten a realistic 11.1 minutes per quarter, which is probably similiar to where I am with NBA Live 2004. However, my realism spreadsheet overcompensates by making shooting fouls more frequent while simultaneously making shooting easier, which made my free throws jump from 11 to 60 with only a minimal adjustment for shooting foul rate (22 to 35), so it went backwards from a great 103-115 point 48 minute scoreline to a really laborious 160-130 . The sim length remains at 11.1 though, even for that game as it's based on FGA, but the tendency to make shooting easier closer to a player amplifies other values to unrealistic extents. I may look into fixing that or just use the average values. My games also highlight the problem with the ranges I've implemented. Small (position or height) forwards that aren't Charles Barkley tend to be prolific rebounders when I squeeze the defensive rebound attribute to 60-99 ranges and set offensive rebounds to 0-40 to limit the offensive rebounds. Also, my generic speed range of 30-50 actually is a tighter range due to it being based on historical highs/lows and it simply doesn't feel very flexible, although it is far less far-fetched than the files by default.

(If anyone knows of a way to get NBA Live 06 to export individual game stats, let me know. I'd like to include it in my realism calibration spreadsheet.)

[dwayne2005]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=caSrqNiQ8vA

Not as good as the 'realism' gets, but a really cool finish.

[JaoSming]

wow you weren't kidding, what an ending

glad to see you are still going strong on this

for the pink heads, maybe you should find the generic draftee CFs and apply them based off skin tone

[dwayne2005]

Spotted a mistake to do with game speed in that one (it was ranged incorrectly; the last 2 digits were entered incorrectly, eg. \1,=ROUND(((\2/99)*(60-30))+60[should be +30])). Oh well, if I can get 10.4 min p/qtr sim-like conditions with the player speeds like that (around the 80 mark), I need to think about increasing their speeds. It also shows that you can get the speeds up on my rosters if you use the QuickRANGE .bkr's and OpenOffice to .csv.

It's not going so strong at the moment, but I need to get out a fix to some 'issues' and yet can never find the time.

[dwayne2005]

Going to recommence work on this. Won't be major. Quit after trying to merge range values and realism settings for NBA Live 2005. It was working, but I had to keep restarting which was annoying. I need to drastically improve all example ranges before releasing a new version. Keep in mind that 0-99 ratings in my file means 0 (historical low) - 99 (historical high). When you adjust ranges for a .dbf/.csv, the ranges are for all seasons. The default values are set to these historical highs and lows. There is no adjustments preset for gameplay or realism within those margins. With the .bkr range files, you could get your perfect settings, export every season (60?) to .csv and replace them all in one and save them all back into .dbf thus creating a collection of rosters that's more to your liking or you can even tap into preserved stats from the end of the file to reformulate ratings.

I've been working on an independent player rating formula, I was thinking about putting together a fantasy league based on the best 400 or so players of all time. It's pretty complicated and factors into account every statistical field in a logical way.

This is as it looks in SuperDB (everything between [] including numbers is part of the field name):

(([36 PTS - points scored]+([30 AST - assists]*2.316)+([27 OFF REB - offensive rebounds]*((0.455+0.084)*2.316)))+(([35 BS - blocked shots]*(((0.455+0.084)*2.316)/1.6))+([33 ST - steals]*((0.455+0.084)*2.316))+([28 DEF REB - defensive rebounds]*((0.455+0.084)*2.316)))-([34 TO - turnovers]*((0.455+0.084)*2.316))-([31 PF - personal fouls]/4.8*((0.455+0.084)*2.316))+((([13 FGM - field goals made]-([14 FGA - field goals attempted]*0.455))*2.316)+([24 FTM - free throws made]-([25 FTA - free throws attempted]*0.748))))/[10 G - games]

+

((([35 BS - blocked shots]*(((0.455+0.084)*2.316)/1.6))+([33 ST - steals]*((0.455+0.084)*2.316))+([28 DEF REB - defensive rebounds]*((0.455+0.084)*2.316)))-(([31 PF - personal fouls]*((2.8/2)/2.4))*(0.748*2)))/[10 G - games]

.455 is the average FG% minus BAA seasons and playoffs for the NBA alltime. .084 adjusts percentages to account for average team offensive rebounds. 2.316 should be the average value of a basket since the inception of the 3 point line. This formula calculates the value of everything in theoretical point value, including chances of baskets on turnover (good defense = good offense). Essentially, it tries to estimate their overall worth to the team. Second part is strictly defense and doesn't include offense on turnover.

According to this, the top 10 seasons since 1979 are (1 per player):

1. Michael Jordan (1988-89) [74.70 PTS] x5
2. Larry Bird (1984-85) [71.06] x4
3. Magic Johnson (1988-89) [70.58] x4
4. Kevin Garnett (2003-04) [70.01] x3
5. Shaquille O'Neal (1999-00) [69.36] x2
6. Hakeem Olajuwon (1992-93) [68.96] x3
7. David Robinson (1993-94) [68.56] x1
8. Charles Barkley (1992-93) [65.45] x1
9. LeBron James (2007-08) [64.76] x2
10. Chris Paul (2008-09) [64.05] x1

EDIT: 2.097 is the value of the average FGM, don't know how I came up with 2.316 but it was always suspicious. Blocks are now /1.5 not /1.6, which means 1.333r results in a turnover. Personal fouls are now /5 not /4.8, so 1 in 5 is predicted to be an offensive (.2). Just a guess at this moment, can't find any info on ratio of offensive to total fouls. Rank is unchanged, except Chris Paul is now replaced by Moses Malone 1981-82.

Appended /3.3 to PF for offensive, roughly .303. Just compared some unofficial stats between 5 players and the average was .307.

EDIT: Found a solution for how to compute a teams success into the ratings with a .bkr file. It's based on point differential which is a better gauge than win/loss. You enter the point differential into the .bkr file by way of inserting team points per game and team allowed points per game. By comparing not just the differential but also relate it to the total score, it means the changes aren't drastic as they never are in basketball where after 100 ponts a good team may win by about 3 or 4%. It does not apply to the rating, but rather the different between 99 and the rating. It means, broadly, good players won't be penalized/benefitted as much as bad players due to a teams success (not at all if they have a 99 value). But 'broadly' speaking means little here; these changes apply to each individual rating and a players weak spots will be effected more than their strong points, penalized or benefited depending on whether it's a + or - point differential. So it is better to say for weak teams, it diminshes their all around playing more than their strong points but enchances all around play for a positive team but will only do so at a differential points rate consistent with the teams score (typically less than 4% swing either way).

[dwayne2005]

This is as good as I'm going to tweak the realism for now, losing interest playing the same two teams. I'm going to have to make a note that this is superstar, don't like the behaviour of the game on lower difficulty, but may revisit it.

The is Celtics vs Suns from 1976. I have applied the fix I worked out for Live 2003 (as well as 2001 and 2000 but not later games) missing faces (1 face/hair for each race, if I were to use random the players look very funny but too many problems to iron out). So races are still random but at least they have heads. (Won't be applied by default.)

The speed range here is extremely low: 5-35. Most of the ranges have been altered. I am not good at this game. My points diff solution above have been applied, so it's more difficult here than by default. I got thrashed a lot when Havlicek was on court. Fortunately, he got two fouls in the first minute and didn't do much damage in the first half. Despite him, the main threat is actually Jo Jo White, I can't seem to stop this guy. He finished with a game high 36 (twice his real life average). Some of that is pace that speed adjustments alone can't fix. The game I think should have either been 20% slower or I should have taken 20% more time to find my shots. I managed to get the lead down to 9 near the end of the third, but I got totally thrashed in the fourth quarter and lost by 24. FG percentages were accurate, both in the mid-high 40s.

The Suns (my team) finished with a remarkably accurate score distribution but as stated there were problems with Jo Jo White of the Celtics. I can't select the '70s AllStar court here like I can in later
Live's, so maybe Jo Jo might have scored more with 3 pointers and combined with pace problems and an absent Havlicek might not be that problematic. Maybe I neglected him, I do tend to control the guards in defense and I do tend to drift toward the basket instead to help out for a rebound.

I have continual codec problems and now it's stopping horrendously and not recording sound. I really hate GamerOSD. Used to allow me to record great videos in XVid, and despite XVid working for everything else it crashes it now, so I have to encode in WMV. To get remotely good quality out of that codec I have to encode in high resolution and resize it down afterwards. Now WMV is hanging and not recording audio in GamerOSD. I thought I solved other codec problems by reinstalling Windows Movie Player, and then this one with WMV came up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpkgwkF4gSg

(You'll notice Dick van Arsdale and other van names like Nick van Excel are problematic. That was not something I neglected, it was something I couldn't address with automatic formatting. The names were given in reverse order and I could only correct ones with one space between them.)

EDIT: There is an error in the ConvertTEAM.bkr's for 2004, 2005, and 06. It's the field name for HOMEADV that is the problem, just change the 2 to 6. The HOMEADV value I could never understand properly in 2003 so I just used the max value of 1400 or so and ranged the scores based on that from the original teams.dbf. For NBA Live 2004 on, the numbers are always 0,1,2. Changing the field number doesn't solve the difference, but I don't feel like dealing with it right now, if ever. I just fixed the convert to 2000 Earvin Johnson detections to Magic Johnson consistent with the default values in the later Live games. That's why Magic isn't picked up in the 2000 conversion. I need to create a realism example range for 06 now, perhaps just an example, and recommence work on finetuning the 2005 one. I also fixed the roster ID change to on by default for the 2000 conversion, which is necessary.

[dwayne2005]

Just working on the 1 season per player rule to produce a list to use for my 500 BEST SEASONS roster from 1979-09 is proving to be a slow and painstaking process. I'm up to around 260 and apparently these are the best all around statistical seasons (I can think of at least two shameful omissions, Drazen Petrovic and Jeff Malone, but I think I'll get them in it before I'm done) so far:

Michael Jordan 1988-89 SG
Larry Bird 1984-85 PF/SF
Magic Johnson 1988-89 PG
Kevin Garnett 2003-04 PF/C
Shaquille O'Neal 1999-00 C
David Robinson 1993-94 C
Hakeem Olajuwon 1992-93 C
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 1979-80 C
Charles Barkley 1992-93 PF/SF
LeBron James 2007-08 SF/PF
Moses Malone 1981-82 C
Chris Paul 2008-09 PG
Karl Malone 1989-90 PF
Tim Duncan 2001-02 PF/C
Patrick Ewing 1989-90 C
Dwyane Wade 2008-09 SG/PG
Chris Webber 2000-01 PF
Tracy McGrady 2002-03 SG/SF
Isiah Thomas 1984-85 PG
Kobe Bryant 2002-03 SG
Fat Lever 1988-89 PG
Grant Hill 1996-97 SF/SG/PG
Gary Payton 1999-00 PG
Clyde Drexler 1988-89 SG/SF
Allen Iverson 2005-06 PG/SG
Kevin McHale 1986-87 PF
John Stockton 1990-91 PG
Kevin Johnson 1988-89 PG
Dirk Nowitzki 2004-05 PF/C
Shawn Marion 2005-06 PF/C/SF
Julius Erving 1979-80 SF/PF
Alex English 1982-83 SF
Michael Adams 1990-91 PG
Elton Brand 2005-06 PF/C
Jason Kidd 1998-99 PG
Scottie Pippen 1993-94 SF
Jack Sikma 1981-82 C/PF
Adrian Dantley 1980-81 SF
Jeff Ruland 1983-84 C
Tim Hardaway 1990-91 PG
Dwight Howard 2007-08 C
Brad Daugherty 1992-93 C
Mychal Thompson 1981-82 C/PF
Chris Mullin 1988-89 SF
George Gervin 1979-80 SG/SF
Dominique Wilkins 1990-91 SF
Bernard King 1984-85 SF
Kevin Willis 1991-92 PF/C
Larry Johnson 1992-93 PF/SF
Anthony Mason 1996-97 SF/PF
Carlos Boozer 2006-07 PF
Amare Stoudemire 2007-08 C
Larry Nance 1986-87 SF/PF
Pervis Ellison 1991-92 C
Derrick Coleman 1992-93 PF
Steve Nash 2006-07 PG
Michael Ray Richardson 1979-80 PG
Chris Bosh 2006-07 PF/C
Pau Gasol 2006-07 C/PF
Dennis Rodman 1991-92 PF
Mark Aguirre 1983-84 SF
Paul Pierce 2005-06 SF/SG
Kiki Vandeweghe 1983-84 SF
Robert Parish 1988-89 C
Al Jefferson 2008-09 C
Terry Cummings 1982-83 PF/SF
Antoine Walker 2000-01 PF
Alonzo Mourning 1995-96 C
Vince Carter 2004-05 SG/SF
Yao Ming 2006-07 C
Antonio Mcdyess 2000-01 PF
Rod Strickland 1997-98 PG
Gilbert Arenas 2006-07 PG/SG
Tom Chambers 1988-89 PF/SF/C
Penny Hardaway 1995-96 PG
Sleepy Floyd 1986-87 PG
Detlef Schrempf 1992-93 SF/PF
Andre Miller 2001-02 PG
Ralph Sampson 1984-85 C/PF
Dan Issel 1979-80 PF/C
Alvin Robertson 1987-88 SG
Deron Williams 2008-09 PG
Terry Porter 1987-88 PG
Tom Gugliotta 1997-98 PF/SF
Joe Barry Carroll 1982-83 C
Latrell Sprewell 1996-97 SG
Artis Gilmore 1982-83 C
Michael Finley 1999-00 SF/SG
Baron Davis 2007-08 PG
Mark Price 1989-90 PG
Marcus Camby 2007-08 C
Mookie Blaylock 1993-94 PG
Calvin Natt 1984-85 SF
Carmelo Anthony 2006-07 SF
Gus Williams 1981-82 PG/SG
Swen Nater 1979-80 C
Elvin Hayes 1979-80 PF/C
Shawn Kemp 1995-96 PF/C
Jermaine O'Neal 2002-03 PF/C
Larry Hughes 2004-05 SG/SF/PG
Shareef Abdur-Rahim 1999-00 SF/PF
Marques Johnson 1979-80 SF
Kevin Durant 2008-09 SF/SG
Vlade Divac 1994-95 C
Dan Roundfield 1982-83 PF
Caron Butler 2007-08 SF/SG
Otis Thorpe 1987-88 PF
Vin Baker 1996-97 PF/C
Chris Kaman 2007-08 C
Zack Randolph 2006-07 PF/C
Bill Laimbeer 1984-85 C
Ben Wallace 2002-03 PF/C
Dana Barros 1994-95 PG/SG
Roy Tarpley 1989-90 C/PF
Kenny Anderson 1993-94 PG
*Larry Kenon 1979-80 PF
Danny Manning 1993-94 PF/SF
Steve Francis 2000-01 PG
Maurice Cheeks 1985-86 PG
Clarence Weatherspoon 1993-94 SF/PF
Stephon Marbury 2004-05 PG
Clark Kellogg 1982-83 PF/SF
Mark Jackson 1987-88 PG
Buck Williams 1984-85 PF
Brad Miller 2004-05 C
Antawn Jamison 2007-08 PF/SF
Horace Grant 1993-94 PF
Dikembe Mutumbo 1999-00 C
Juwan Howard 1995-96 SF/PF
*Jerry Stackhouse 2000-01 SG/SF
Brandon Roy 2008-09 SG/PG
Terrell Brandon 1999-00 PG
Reggie Theus 1985-86 PG/SG
Johnny Moore 1984-85 PG
Lionel Simmons 1991-92 SF/PF
Pooh Richardson 1990-91 PG
Darrell Walker 1989-90 PG/SG
Bill Cartwright 1979-80 C
Wes Unseld 1979-80 C
Tony Parker 2008-09 PG/SG
David Lee 2008-09 C
Jamal Mashburn 2000-01 SF
Jeff Hornacek 1991-92 SG/PG
Sidney Moncrief 1981-82 SG
David West 2007-08 PF/SF
Damon Stoudamire 1995-96 PG
Ray Allen 2006-07 SG
Dino Radja 1995-96 PF
Peja Stojakovic 2003-04 SF
Ray Williams 1979-80 PG/SG
Greg Ballard 1981-82 SF/PF
Herb Williams 1985-86 C
Lamar Odom 2007-08 PF
Norm Nixon 1983-84 PG/SG
World B. Free 1979-80 SG
Rasheed Wallace 2000-01 PF/C
James Worthy 1989-90 SF
Rodney McCray 1989-90 SF/PF
Mickey Johnson 1979-80 PF
Nick van Excel 2001-02 PG
Bob McAdoo 1979-80 C/PF
Andrei Kirilenko 2005-06 SF/PF
Xavier McDaniel 1986-87 SF/PF
Sam Cassell 1999-00 PG
Orlando Woolridge 1990-91 SF
Mitch Richmond 1990-91 SG
Kelly Tripucka 1982-83 SF
Charles Oakley 1986-87 PF
Troy Murphy 2008-09 PF/C
Glenn Robinson 2000-01 SF
Byron Scott 1987-88 SG
*Ron Harper 1988-89 SG
Andre Iguodala 2008-09 SF/SG
Larry Drew 1982-83 PG
Purvis Short 1984-85 SF
Danny Granger 2008-09 SF
Mike Gminski 1987-88 C
Jerome Kersey 1987-88 SF
Rickey Green 1983-84 PG
Josh Smith 2007-08 PF/SF
Devin Harris 2008-09 PG
Glenn Rivers 1987-88 PG/SG
Toni Kukoc 1998-99 SF/PF/C
Donyell Marshall 2003-04 PF
Chauncey Billups 2005-06 PG
Michael Williams 1991-92 PG
Cliff Robinson 1982-83 PF
Stephen Jackson 2008-09 SF/SG
Mike Bibby 2004-05 PG
Derek Harper 1989-90 PG
Gary Grant 1989-90 PG
Paul Pressey 1985-86 SF/SG
Jalen Rose 2000-01 SF/PG/SG
Jamaal Wilkes 1979-80 SF/PF
Kendall Gill 1996-97 SG/PG
Rolando Blackman 1983-84 SG
Joe Johnson 2006-07 SG/PG
Arvydas Sabonis 1997-98 C
*Leonard Robinson 1981-82 PF/SF
Reggie Miller 1989-90 SG
Ken Norman 1988-89 SF
Michael Cage 1986-87 PF/C
Eddie Jones 1999-00 SG/SF
Rashard Lewis 2006-07 SF/PF
Tyrone Bogues 1993-94 PG
Kenyon Martin 2003-04 PF
Richard Jefferson 2005-06 SF/PF
Dale Ellis 1986-87 SG/SF
Sherman Douglas 1990-91 PG
Maurice Lucas 1981-82 PF
Hersey Hawkins 1990-91 SG
Jim Jackson 1994-95 SG
Cedric Ceballos 1994-95 SF
Benoit Benjamin 1988-89 C
Emeka Okafor 2006-07 C/PF
Jason Richardson 2004-05 SG/SF
Tyrone Corbin 1990-91 SF
Alvan Adams 1979-80 C
39.0
Luol Deng 2006-07 SF
Monta Ellis 2007-08 SG/PG
Christian Laettner 1996-97 PF/C
Walter Davis 1979-80 SF/SG
*Wayman Tisdale 1989-90 PF/C
George McGinnis 1979-80 PF
Michael Redd 2006-07 SF/SG
Rajon Rondo 2008-09 PG
Paul Westphal 1979-80 SG/PG
Ron Artest 2007-08 SF/PF
Scott Skiles 1992-93 PG
Otis Birdsong 1980-81 SG
Rony Seikaly 1991-92 C
Loy Vaught 1994-95 PF
Gerald Wallace 2006-07 SF/PF
Chuck Person 1986-87 SF/SG
Charles Smith 1990-91 PF/SF/C
Mike Mitchell 1983-84 SF
Brent Barry 2001-02 SG/PG
John Lucas 1983-84 PG
Glen Rice 1996-97 SF/SG
David Greenwood 1981-82 PF
Nick Anderson 1992-93 SG/SF
Boris Diaw 2005-06 C/SF/PF
David Wesley 1996-97 PG
Armen Gilliam 1995-96 PF/SF
Keith van Horn 1998-99 PF
Hedo Turkoglu 2007-08 SF/PF
Ricky Davis 2002-03 SG/SF
Corey Maggette 2004-05 SG/SF
John Williams 1989-90 PF/C
Manu Ginobili 2007-08 SG/SF/PG
Avery Johnson 1995-96 PG
Darrell Armstrong 2000-01 PG
Reggie Lewis 1992-93 SG/SF
Robert Reid 1980-81 SF/SG
Jason Terry 2002-03 PG
*Jose Calderon 2008-09 PG
Harvey Grant 1990-91 SF
Jay Vincent 1984-85 SF/PF
Cedric Maxwell 1979-80 SF/PF
Mark Eaton 1984-85 C
Johnny Dawkins 1987-88 PG
Eddie A. Johnson 1984-85 SF/SG
Eric Murdock 1992-93 PG
37.0

[mariulis1]

it is great what you are doing

[dwayne2005]

mariulis1, thanks! I am also working on some ranges for NBA Live 06. By default, my rosters work okay with Live 06, not the disaster of other Live's, but with a few tweaks I think so far plays pretty cool, range effects which just can't be done with adapting realism settings alone. And combined with "Classic Teams" mod is mostly complete graphically. I have been playing Supersonics vs Bulls from '95-96, and I have yet to encounter a player while in play from the rosters who doesn't have a graphics preset. Whilst unfortunately I think many from this best 500 seasons roster will not have preset graphics, some will and I expect it will best suite Live 06. I am not working on graphics at this point, my concern is still the number stuff.

I have fixed the HOMEADV value in the team conversions now. It will correspond with 0, 1, or 2 corresponding with the teams home win-loss records. I'm not sure, though, what the number represents.

[dwayne2005]

Present range settings in NBA Live 06. These are just example ranges, many have been rushed in other games (except Live 03 and 05). I've gone a minimal route here with very approximate settings. Would like to note make this one too slow. (By the way, realism settings in game are defaults except fatigue.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pR55w7k6g4g

(I found it difficult to stop that prolific scorer, not Jordan Steve Kerr! Can't take a step away from him otherwise it's guaranteed to score.)

In my top 500 seasons, Dave Cowens' and Bill Walton's bests were very low in my formulation, but they will be included. Reggie Lewis, Jeff Malone and Spud Web are notable new inclusions. Drazen Petrovic will make this roster. Really unusual not having 20 PPG a guarantee here, but I'm fully confident in the formulation. Would like to see Manute Bol in the list, but I'm doubtful he'll make the 500 in overall statistical contributions.

UPDATE: Finished the list of 500. All the big names I can see have made it, but among the last few inclusions was the best season for Stacey Augmon. For such a cool player to almost miss out suggests there are more omissions, so I'm extending it based on any 'essentials' I might encounter. I've included Manute Bol, even though he tops out with a rating of 18.x and was nowhere near the 29 mark I finished this list on. He is too iconic a player and had such shot blocking milestones, though real one sided (even his freakish 3 pointer streaks were not reflected in his 3PT percentages). Dave Cowens came quite low in the list because his best seasons were prior to 1979-80, and in that year Bird, Archibald and others were vying for the stats. Bill Walton came quite low in the list because his best season was also prior to 1979-80. Then the next 3 were injury problematic and the first two of which don't qualify for the minimum games played (41) for this list. By the third one, I gather his talents were slipping a little, but he's judged on that one.

Copying all the .dbf entries shouldn't be as time consuming as sifting through a list in the manner I did, hope to get started this morning. Added Michael Cooper, as well.

UPDATE 2: Fixed my XVid and audio problems with GamerOSD. Finished getting the proper years for the 500+ players for my Best 500 Seasons .dbf. I won't be adding any graphical customizations. It was a prospect that I'd get started with a few simple appearance things but this took way longer than I had expected. As it's 1979-09, a number of players are already graphically represented anyhow. I will simplify the player appearance batch .bkr file and add in an 'iscreated' tag, but won't add any players, perhaps just an example of how to use it in case anyone feels like doing it themselves. I am rewriting the NOTES.txt (much better, but still not good) and fixing up range stuff. Even I can't even read the original NOTES.txt. It was added to bit by bit over time, and is just a complete mess.

UPDATE 3: Decided to add a few players to it:



Am still working on the ranges. Last game I played, Kareem had 16 blocks. I'm going to increase the jumping range and hopefully that'll result in less ease of shot blocks. Jumping doesn't help, but it helps to reduce the FG% of the taller players and boost the FG% for the guards, so it helps for overall distribution so I think I will leave it at 0-99. Jumping in my formula is based on rebounds:height ratio so it should benefit the shorter players by giving it a max range. I have just shifted the block rating down to 0-20. Not much I can do there to make shot blocks more difficult.

[dwayne2005]

Video of my fantasy roster (singlet numbers are the final two numbers of the season their ratings are based on; the rosters here are 'drafted' within the game, I haven't set them to teams yet and may not even bother since it works best kept strictly for unique and customized rosters) and latest range tweakings:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXUW2dPmnNM

Those ranges are (for Superstar) FG (15-45), 3PT (15-45), FT (45-99), DUNK (0-50; never looked into this), STL (0-15), BLK (0-15), OFF REB (50-99), DEF REB (0-99), BALABILITY (70-99), OFFABILITY (0-99), DEFABILITY (0-25; to try and help fix blocks, doesn't seem to work but it does seem to reduce them [from 9 one qtr down to 5 the next from a 0-50 setting]), Speed (0-30), Quick (0-20 in the video, I've upped it to 0-30 now), Jump (0-99), Dribble (85-99), Strength (0-99), Hardy (0-99), Range (8-25), Fatigue (40-60; I always like keeping the range low because almost half the ratings are per game and it would be double penalizing them, besides they are pro-level athletes), Inside (0-35), Primacy (0-99).

There is plenty I haven't explored, and I've gotten dumb as to the meaning of the Balability, Dribble, and Quickness ratings... what exactly do they do? Do any of them have any effect on the speed of crossovers and spin moves? I'm not sure I'm thinking right about them. After I'm done with this, I'll need to re-analyse at least some of the other examples for the other games, if not devote complete attention to them (weeks).

Uh, didn't know you could do that everytime with a low post move. Maybe if I reduce strength to 0-20.

[dwayne2005]

Another video (Suns vs Celtics, 1975-76):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_RqBLaG4ms

An example of a more complete state; here, I've customized all the remaining starting five player faces in the 'create player' feature for the two teams. I've also set the skin colour for all the players on the benches of the two teams and used my missing faces patch to insert faces (3 players I couldn't find images for so their skin colours remain random). I've manually gone over and put in the singlet numbers, also (not permanent, just for this video, however I will be including a singlet number in my batch replace operation). I've also added in "player styles" which includes 'scoring area' (I formulated it, but it is the most crude of my formulations) and dunk pack (all the packs default to 2 in my roster, which may get very boring). Though these changes will not be implemented by default (my PLAYERS.dbf files will remain untouched), they can be applied by extracting to .csv and applying the .bkr file where I will store this info. One day, if it was ever reasonably complete, I'd simply extract all the .dbf's to .csv and then batch replace them so the changes will apply across seasons.



Now that I've started entering at least a few players into the batch .bkr file, I've realized the double confirmation of name and ID# is just too tiresome. Plus, if I were to apply the name fixes to fix annoying things like Arsdale Dick Van or Excel Nick Van for instance the .bkr would no longer work (considered actually applying the name fixes, but then reconverting all the .dbfs to .csv and back into .dbf is just too time consuming for something so minor). I'm grouping all entries under the players name now instead and just id'ing by the ID#. I've fixed the 'iscreated' field into the .bkr, have changed the "weight only" entry to more elabourate info and may include optional singlet numbers (something I wasn't sure I should do since they change from team to team) separately (though I'd have to ommit the 500 best seasons project). I want to add the skin colours of all the players in my 500 seasons project and some 'iscreated' faces but I'm been too lazy to do it, especially while my range settings are all over the place with regards to other NBA Lives.

[dwayne2005]

Oops, posted this on the wrong thread...

I'm toying around with 'trainer' makers. Not sure if I'll ever figure out how to make this up, but all the settings I've got to set up are ... weird. I've found the quarter value (and stat quarter) so I think it'll mean I can start you off in any quarter. I mean I've just been playing that way but not through proper implementation... I don't know whether the setting will ordinarily 'stick' as it has been. I've also figured out the quarter time. I mean what fools EA were for not thinking to allow us 1 minute and 13 minute quarters! It's an outrage! Or you can play 20 minute halves starting from the 3rd quarter. Or 48 minute quarters. There is a scoreline additive, of course. I found one trainer online for NBA Live 2003 and it's only features boasted were scoreline related. I've found all of the rule settings, depending on how fully featured this trainer maker is I hope it'll allow me to set some standards for various time periods.

What I'm really after and it's frustrating me, though, is: 1) 3 point shooting rule on/off, and 2) shotclock and other rule times, I think it'd be great if they could be synched with quarer length (eg. 9 minute quarter - 18 second shotclock), plus I believe the ABA had a 35 second shot clock. I don't think I'll succeed. There are about 800 possibilities for shot clock to sort through, and even then I don't know if any of them are going to be it. P.S. It's pretty cool seeing 20 minutes left of a period.

There are a lot of what appears to be settings here that I have no clue what they do, so I may include those also as unknowns.

UPDATE: I've done up the rules section in TMK. There are 3 rule variables that do not appear in the menu. One appears right after Defensive 3 Seconds and another appears right after 3 in the Key. Both are binary (on/off). The third comes right after the second unknown value and just before defensive foul frequency. The value is 2, so possibly something with 3 possible outcomes (0,1,2)? I've tested and none have any effect on the 3 point rule, unfortunately. The software (TSearch and Trainer Maker Kit) are really easy to get. A little alien at first, but such a breeze. Not as fully featured as they look, but it looks like I'll have something done up w/without 3 point rule/shotclock values.

My shooting values have to be significantly altered in my range. Been playing 1 on 1 which I never do and realized they are off that way. I also notice that a range difference of greater than 40 is very bad.

UPDATE 2: The second unknown rule IS the 3 point rule! Only downside is it's set for each court, meaning you have to set the rule after the game has begun and then restart it to activate it.

UPDATE 3: I CAN freeze the free point setting, and it's now implemented. I've given up on trying to find the 24 second shot clock. I sifted through hundreds of 18 hex values in the only two areas of memory I've located values in. Unless another area of memory comes up with some other settings.



I may try and release a version of my rosters project in the next 2 days, but it won't have the ranges properly done out, it won't have many player visual details and it won't have new example seasons.

Presently, I'm still toying around with shooting ranges for 2003. I'm at 60-25 from 2PT and 70-35 from 3PT. The range is sligthly larger than before (35 not 30). The thing is, as those mins and maxs are set to historical highs and lows, such narrow gaps essentially mean players frequently differ very little on the ratings, but that may be the way it should be. Besides, low range players have significantly lower stats in relation to the values for Superstar, it seems to be curved as the rating goes down.

A few days ago, I've also made ammendments to my realism settings calibration stuff for Live 04 and 05. No longer is it going to try to adjust the FT's to real life averages. It's simplified the foul function (before, it was even erroneous through complication) and now weighs all foul categories, doesn't considering shooting fouls separately. This came after I noticed on Live 2004 the game counts FGA for every shooting foul. This basically results in increasing FG shooting ratings while also increasing foul ratings and that results in an overwhelming amount of FT's and 3 point players, not to mention better than proper shooting. It also damages gameplay, like speed for instance. You don't want to score 3 point plays every possession. It opens up an exploit, so I've weighed it to the other foul categories with the default set to 0 ('off'), which means it won't adjust the value played at. I've also revised the speed calculation to including a third option in shorter quarter.

[dwayne2005]

I just played Boston vs Cleveland, 1982-83, full 48 minutes, with 25-60 FG and 35-70 3PT shooting ranges.

Interestingly, I won 129 - 116, my biggest victory ever against Superstar CPU. Given most of my trials are between two strong teams, perhaps that says there is a some truth that even on Superstar you can find weak teams. Then again, it was only about 5 points difference in the last minute when Nate Archibald scored 8 points on layups.

FG: .526 - .405 (take into account the absurd amounts of blocks in this game that get returned back, if an average is about 4 blocks for a team then that's 14 less FGA's and .453)
3PT: .250 - .118 (even at this setting, most are being banked off the glass and look uncomfortable. There was a point when I hit 3 in a row with Bird and Ainge, it felt real otherwise and discouragement from taking an abundant amount like real basketball, plus the CPU percentage was 3 times lower when I played on 15-45 ranges, so I think they were just off in this game.)
FT: .429 - .800 (nevermind this, the present range is really good I was just really off in my timing this morning, I think McHale missed 3/3)
REB: 65-48 (I out-rebounded the PC! That's really rare for me, but the front court of Parish, McHale and Bird is really formiddable under these settings!)
Blocks: 18-3
Steals: 4-12
Assists: 38-19

For Cleveland, my favourite Lloyd Free had 40 points (.472 FG, 3 rebounds, 4 assists and 1 steal). How is it that a PC controlled player played out 46 minutes? Didn't think that was possible. :/Cliff Robinson had 26 (.565 FG) and 13 rebounds, 1 block and 1 steal. Scott Wedman had 16 points and 3 steals. G. Huston (whoever that is) shot abysmally at about 20% and had 10 (6 rebounds and 6 assists).

For my team, Larry Bird finished with 35 (.615 FG, 14 reb, 3 blks, 4 asst). Danny Ainge had one of his more milestone games at 28 points (.448, 13 assists and 6 turnovers). Archibald (thanks largely due to that final minute) finished with 20 points (.435) and 6 assists. Now centres like Robert Parish are the reason why I set the FG rating real low to begin with. He shot .727 for 16 points, 20 rebounds and 10 blocks. Now, I know I don't want to lower the FG rating to such an absurb extent as before where you don't get any range shots and you miss even more easy layups, so it seems unavoidable to have these shooting numbers game after game from your dominant centre. It seems you have to have it like the blocks, unfortunately. McHale had 16 points (.470 shooting), 19 rebounds, and 2 blocks.

I also took plenty of ranged 2 point jump shots, and my using the default in game rosters for various tests these last 2 days has made me more accustomed to the spin move.

Without typing it up, these are the ranges I had copied and posted from the .bkr:

\1,=ROUND(((\2/99)*(60-25))+25)

\1,=ROUND(((\2/99)*(70-35))+35)

\1,=ROUND(((\2/99)*(99-45))+45)

\1,=ROUND(((\2/99)*(50-0))+0)

\1,=ROUND(((\2/99)*(10-0))+0)

\1,=ROUND(((\2/99)*(10-0))+0)

\1,=ROUND(((\2/99)*(99-50))+50)

\1,=ROUND(((\2/99)*(99-0))+0)

\1,=ROUND(((\2/99)*(99-70))+70)

\1,=ROUND(((\2/99)*(99-0))+0)

\1,=ROUND(((\2/99)*(25-0))+0)

\1,=ROUND(((\2/99)*(30-0))+0)

\1,=ROUND(((\2/99)*(20-0))+0)

\1,=ROUND(((\2/99)*(99-0))+0)

\1,=ROUND(((\2/99)*(99-85))+85)

\1,=ROUND(((\2/99)*(99-0))+0)

\1,=ROUND(((\2/99)*(50-0))+0)

\1,=ROUND((((\2-8)/17)*(25-8))+8)

\1,=ROUND(((\2/99)*(60-40))+40)

\1,=ROUND(((\2/99)*(35-0))+0)

\1,=ROUND(((\2/99)*(99-0))+0)

[mariulis1]

Can not wait when I can play NBA Live with the following players. Accurate statistics

[dwayne2005]

I'll try my best. The above video has the only example range I've worked on for that game, and it's very unadvanced. Looks are deceiving, especially with Live 2003. I keep being happy with settings, but then I realize the values are screwed. I had 8/9 in the 1st quarter from Robert Parish and only missed the 9th because I was getting bored. By this time, I had already revised the range down 5 and shrunken the range to 25 points. Now I've reduced both the upper and lower threshold and have a range for FG of 25-50 (not far from the original 15-45). It gets clumsy and I'm not sure jump shots are very easy to get now. 3 point rating is also reduced to a 25 point range with 45-70. I am trying to keep the 3 point setting a notch lower than real life to try and discourage outside shots, but I'd like FG shots to be spot on because it's so easy to get in close to the basket for an easy two and there's seldom any reason to take a jump shot. But then you deal with those centres scoring ridiculously high percentage basketball. I am more hopeful about ranging shots for the other lives, especially as you get the ball wrestled from you if you take too long with it, thus encouraging outside jump shots.

EDIT: Parish ... 27 points ... 1 quarter ... 13/18 shooting (.722). Lowering the FG rating to 20-45. I may have had it almost right in my Phoenix vs Celtics video above, though there's no range in the jump shots. I am happy at the moment with the 3PT rating of 45-70, though now it's got to be more inviting to take range shots from outside the stripe than inside, I don't think either are more inviting than going in closer to the basket. EDIT: 15/21 (.714) from that range for Parish with 30 points. Keep in mind, this one doesn't factor into account blocks it seems (I didn't realize that before). Parish was blocked a couple of times by Joe Barry Carroll in the last two examples, but they didn't tally up. The team could benefit from better play than passing into Parrish all the time if the blocks actually mattered, but since it's returned back for another shot in Live 2003 it hardly matters. I may make the rating a notch harder, but then even Parrish's stats would lessen over 48 minutes. And not even in Wilt's 100 point game was he handed the ball on every play. Though it gave me very good point margins, so it would seem basketball-wise, it wasn't the most efficient quarter scores I've had (32 - 20). Going to make fatigue greater, but don't believe it's relevant to how much play a player gets in Live 03. EDIT: Just played a 42-24 quarter as a team. My team shot .800 mostly on fast breaks (this is despite adjusting the FG rating down to 15-40). I'm going to reduce the speed and quickness ratings further, hopefully it limits the sheer number of fastbreaks. (CPU is shooting .385 from the field, so the FG range seems too strict for Superstar CPU... I may try and increase the hex value above Superstar, see if they play any better. )

[dwayne2005]

I think, though I'm not sure, you can get difficulties greater than superstar here. 0=Novice, 3=Superstar. If I set it to 9, FT is absurd (and totally unplayable!). It definitely impacts that. For a while, about 7 minutes, the CPU out scored me in a major way (15-29 compared with 42-24 the quarter before), but then they began getting weaker. I also don't know how much my lack of competitive focus contributed. I didn't detect any increase in steals or anything at the 9 setting, but I just changed it to 4. Shooting remains bad for the CPU as on Superstar, but in a couple of minutes they've just stripped my players of about 4 possessions. That was rare to see 1 or 2 per game before. Most steals before were intercepts.

So, verdict is uncertain, but there may be more difficulty settings there. It also just may be disorderly chaos, since the steals/shooting values don't seem to match up with the observed effect at 9. If it does work, I'll have to put in a 'lock' for it, since it defaults back to 0 next reload.

I'm unsure whether this 'trainer' will work for anyone else. This is the first time I ever made one up, don't know if the RAM location change between the .exe's used (I use one that is not allowed to be mentioned on these forums, though I own the game I just don't want to insert CD in all the time and after 6 years I doubt many here would still be doing so either).

Okay, it appears disorderly and funny. I just had 2 vs 3 steals in the first 30 seconds on play on the 4 setting. Most of those were straight after the other. Might include a lock setting just for the gimmick of it. It actually means that you can't just run into the computer opponent, which is good. But it also appears to mean the same happens with your CPU team mates against the computer, thus they get it back. Or vice versa. You also bump into your own CPU team mates causing you to lose the ball. Weird. Super-steal rating. Actually, it might be very playable if you don't run into people! Getting interesting. It's like there's a contact role activated here that EA games may have been toying with, maybe steal has little to do with it but it's the contact?

[dwayne2005]

I may have erred in my understanding of something, needs to be explored a little...

[tommy]

the ZIP file is damaged...

[dwayne2005]

This is a rearchived version, now using 7Zip instead of IzArc, but still in the .zip format.

http://rapidshare.com/files/290302281/NBALive2003Rules.zip

I followed an online tutorial on how to make these 'trainers' using TSearch, but TSearch was a load of rubbish and done nothing so I scrapped one part of the tutorial that may have, in fact, been vital. For the last 2 hours, I've been trying to decipher someones tutorial for another value search program. Worst tutorial ever. And I thought mine were bad.

I need to know if the values in this little utility work for anyone else, whether any fields fail or not. I may require 'pointers', which I'm still yet to fully understand.

[dwayne2005]

BEST GAME of computer basketball I ever played! It was amazing what setting the speed range from 0-30 down to 0-22 accomplished!

Boston (me) vs Warriors (Superstar CPU) 1982-83, 48 minute game.

The shot distribution was as beautiful as it ever got for this game! Bird was shooting range FG's. I don't see how that was so, considering how difficult it normally is with 20-45 FG ranges.

1st quarter I was down 24-27. I was shooting 39.3% while Golden State was shooting 40.7% from the field. It was the lowest aggregate for a 12 minute qtr I believe I ever had in NBA Live 2003 while remaining believable.

2nd quarter, I beat the CPU 39-33 shooting 62.1% from the field. Half time up 63-60. Unfortunately, the CPU didn't play much Pervis Short, who has been trampling me in my various tests, because of foul trouble in the first half.

3rd quarter, I scored 34-31 and shot .640 from the field. I scored my first 13/16 shots (then made only 3 of my last 9) from the field which was disturbing no doubt. But I can't tweak these ratings lower I don't believe. At one point, I was up by as much as about 16 points, but only 6 points at 3 qtr time.

4th quarter, was low percentage basketball very similiar to the 1st qtr. The superstar CPU predictable came back and took the lead. With about 20 seconds to go and down by 3, I believe it was Robert Parish who shot at medium distance. I tech somehow tech fouled. They scored the free throw and inbounded the ball. Bird steals, passing it down. Archibald had about 3 players in front of him, it wasn't an easy layup. He jump shot from medium range and the ball bounced around about 4 times for the basket.

Game was tied.

A fraction over 2 seconds remaining. CPU times out and inbounds it from centre court. I think Ainge effects the steal from inbounds and passes it to Robert Parish. He shoots from 3 point range and swishes! I win the game by a score of 123-120.

Final game stats:

FG - 50.5% to 45.0%
3PT - 20.0% to 35.0% (I was actually very happy with this setting; Bird scored two straight 3 pointers and then I got stupid and thought I'd score more with him, and he wasted about 8 shots. In reality, Bird was actually a patchy 3 point shooters who went on electrifying streaks that made him appear better than he was.)
FT - 40.0% to 71.4% ... okay, this was the bad part about the game. For some reason, a setting that I found challenging but good has quickly become too difficult for me. Bird was notorious here! But I get worse with my best free throw shooters, I find it more difficult to time those slow ones. I had upped the range from 45-99 to 50-99 and now will up it to 55-99. Bird should have faired about 5 points better.
Rebounds - 57-56, pretty good in any NBA Live game to wind up with aggregates like that after 48 minutes! The shot total was low and surprisingly rewarding to hold back a fraction, at least for 2/4 quarters here. Even NBA Live 2005, the slowest game, would probably get higher figures than that.
Offensive rebounds - 9-10 (unfortunately the cost of setting the shooting values low is that many offensive rebounds don't result in a successful basket, but it is a minor sacrifice)
Blocks - 9-2 (low for me, I think the speed changed my incentive to keep flicking between defenders and boosting their numbers)
Steals - 9-7
Assists - 40-22 (unfortunately, I still break free for a few too many fast breaks. I didn't seem to get many when I was playing with 0-20 speed range, so a slight touch to 21 or 20 might be in order)
Turnovers - 16-12

Player stats:

Boston

Bird - 34 PTS, .481, 9 REB, 2 BLK, 5 AST (41 MIN)
Parish - 21 PTS, .556, 18 REB, 4 BLK, 2 STL, 4 AST (39 MIN)
Ainge - 17 PTS, .571, 5 REB, 2 STL, 7 AST (34 MIN)
McHale - 16 PTS, .444, 13 REB, 2 STL (40 MIN)
Archibald - 16 PTS, .615, 12 AST (35 MIN)
Maxwell - 11 PTS, .417 (16 MIN)

Golden State

Carroll - 24 PTS, .462, 13 REB (41 MIN)
Romar - 22 PTS, .375, 6 REB, 6 AST (39 MIN)
Larry Smith - 17 PTS, .500, 6 REB, 4 AST (46 MIN)
Pervis Short - 16 PTS, .438, 6 REB (22 MIN)
L. Lloyd - 13 PTS, 5/6
S. Williams - 11 PTS, .417

I'll try and get GamerOSD up right now and get that last shot if it's still in the replay. Unfortunately, GamerOSD tends to crash my PC when the game is already in memory when I start it up.

I'll probably find I'll soon be able to get .600+ for every quarter and 150 point games, but it was heaven while it lasted!

And I found out the cause for appalling CPU performance when I tried capturing my last video. The trainer is a freaking CPU hog! It must be all those input fields (continually refresh). I think I may have to go more minimal or scrap it altogether. I'm not so sure it matters if or not it even works for other people that much anymore. I can set it simple I guess, remove the indicators for various rule conditions and options customizable in game.

Unfortunately, the game didn't keep the last few seconds of play in, only the 2 seconds leading up to the last inbound and the millisecond it was inbounded before the buzzer!

[mariulis1]

This is a rearchived version, now using 7Zip instead of IzArc, but still in the .zip format.

http://rapidshare.com/files/290302281/NBALive2003Rules.zip

I followed an online tutorial on how to make these 'trainers' using TSearch, but TSearch was a load of rubbish and done nothing so I scrapped one part of the tutorial that may have, in fact, been vital. For the last 2 hours, I've been trying to decipher someones tutorial for another value search program. Worst tutorial ever. And I thought mine were bad.

I need to know if the values in this little utility work for anyone else, whether any fields fail or not. I may require 'pointers', which I'm still yet to fully understand.

How to use this program.