How does trading work?

[Leander]

I have the Knicks. Worst choice, I know.
All but two teams have a negative salary cap. e.g. -something.

How can I trade players when almost all teams have a negative cap?

I don't understand how it works.

[Andrew]

When both teams are above the cap, the salaries on both sides of the deal need to be as close as possible; specifically, the total salaries being traded by one team cannot exceed 120% of the total salaries coming the other way. For example, if one team is offering a package with a total salary of $5 mil, the player(s) coming the other way must have a salary no greater than $6 mil or no less than $4.17 mil.

It's much easier to try and put together a deal where the salaries are as close as possible, eg $5.5 mil for $5.3 mil. That way, you only have to worry about the overall ratings of the players in the deal since the equal or near-equal salaries will satisfy the cap rules.

[Leander]

Ah, ok, thank you. Gotta be difficult to find a team with as huge contracts as the Knicks have.

[Andrew]

No question. If there are any teams that are under the salary cap, they can be used for trading large contracts for smaller ones. It's not always easy to get the players you want but you might be able to get rid of some that you don't.

[asgsjb]

You must be a few seasons in if you don't see many teams with cap room. In the 1st season, there are several...particularly Charlotte, who's a goldmine for trading and cap room. I do a Knicks dynasty and I went straight to Charlotte in my 1st season. I was able to pawn of multiple high-salary, mid-potential players for studs I liked...namely Okafor and Gerald Wallace. Once I tapped them out, I moved on to other teams with cap room. Finally, when I had no other alternatives I liked, I went for deals where I fit in the 120% rule and where I got a player I wanted (quality with smaller contracts) and a higher-salary expiring contract. It's the best way to reduce the cap...and you can get good players at the same time. It's not always easy figuring it out, but it's fun. Also, remember that you may have to take several trade steps to get the players you want. For example, you may want to trade your expensive PF for a less-expensive SF and an expiring contract, but the team you want to trade the PF too doesn't want PF's and instead wants PG's. So trade your PF to a team where you can get a PG within 120% salary-wise and use that PG as the bait to get the SF and expiring contract you want. Be creative. Good luck.

[Leander]

I can't get my fav players... Josh Smith, D. Howard and so on...

But I actually got one trade done. It is unrealistic but it would work. I tested it. LOL

The Knicks trade Marbury, Nate Robinson and W. Chandler to the Lakers for Kobe Bryant, DJ Mbenga and Ira Newble.

Marbuy has a rating of 78, Robinson 69. Bryant 99...well, it is the old cheat of just adding overall ratings. The cpu has always traded a e.g. 80 and 50 player for a 70 and 62 player.

[Andrew]

That's right. If you balance the overall ratings on both sides of the trade, you stand a good chance of the CPU accepting. The main obstacles are the salary cap and in some cases, a team simply not being interesed in the deal you're offering. Traditionally, it's easier to deal with a team that's losing, teams that are winning are less inclined to give up star players unless you're offering a star of equal or greater value (by overall rating) and even then they might knock it back.

[asgsjb]

I see you have updated your rosters. With original '05 rosters, I was able to trade Marbury straight up for Kobe.

Don't give up on trading for Josh Smith and Dwight Howard. It can be done, but you may need to map out and take several trade steps first. With original rosters, the tough guy to get is Josh Howard...he has a nice overall ranking, but costs nothing. It is tough to match up rankings and still get salaries close enough, but with enough maneuvering, I was able to accomplish it. With some maneuvering, you can get Smith and Howard with your updated rosters.

[Leander]

I use my "final 0708NLSC rosters".

Josh Smith is not that important. I only need Dwight Howard but without losing David Lee or Nate Robinson.

[Leander]

Ok, after some 1.5 hours of trying to get Dwight Howard I finally got him.

1) Trade with the Kings: Marbury and Balkman for Brad Miller and Kenny Thomas

2) Waived Mardy Collins and signed free agent Mike Sweetney for 745k

3) Trade with the Spurs: Brad Miller and Sweetney for Tony Parker and Bonner

4) Trade with the Magic: Eddie Curry, Tony Parker and Fred Jones for Dwight Howard, Adonal Foyle and Tony Battie.

Ratings: 73/78/62 for 86/51/53.

So far so good...but my roster is competely useless.

Starting Five:

Dwight Howard, Zach Randolph, Quentin Richardson, Jamal Crawford, Nate Robinson.

Bench: holy sh...problem. Patrick Ewing, David Lee, Jeffries.
NO guards and loads of PFs:

Kenny Thomas, Morris, Chandler, Bonner, Foyle, Battie.

I could also trade Kenny Thomas for Greg Buckner. And get some bad guards...but this would take many traded and it wouldn't be Knicks-like. Too many changes.

You also have to know that Crawford, Randolph, Ewing, Lee, Robinson and Chandler must not be traded. I like them and they have to stay.

Curry, Marbury, Collins, Morris, Rose, Jones, Balkman can be traded but e.g. Rose has poor ratings (52) along with a 7 mill. contract. No chance.

asgsjb If you know a better way to aquire Howard feel free to post it.

[asgsjb]

No better ideas...sorry. But I think you did a great job...you got the player you wanted through creative trading.

Now that you have ID'd who you are willing to trade, start with them...see what you can get that fills out your roster. You will be surprised at how decent some of the lower ranked players are if you ID the right stats that are important to you. For example, if you have all post players and nobody who can shoot from outside the arc, you can always find a relatively-tall guard who has phenomenal ratings for 3-point shooting and average secondary stats. Or if you want a better PG, you can find a PG with great dribbling, passing and speed stats, even if his other stats are average. I don't know the stats for players with your roster update, so I can't be more specific. But I know that with original '05 rosters, Korver is a great example...he's an average-ranked player (50 OVR) who can hit the 3 (ranked 89 there) even if blindfolded. For PG's, Jannaro Pargo is a favorite of mine...only ranked 50 OVR, but his key stats are 74 FG, 74 3's, 85 FT, and 80 pass. And if you find these players, they are usually relatively cheap.

As for change, that's a personal choice. I was happy to completely revamp my Knicks team. But I can understnad your desire to keep a bit of the Knicks core. It looks like you have that core in your untouchables...Crawford, Randolph, Ewing, etc.

As a final note, keep in mind that you can frequently use your untouchables as trade bait and just focus on getting them back at a later date. if Randolph can get you a guard that you want or need and then you can get Randolph back by using Curry or your other tradeable players, you get a win-win in the end.

Hope this helps.

[Leander]

Thanks. It's really difficult.

The problem is that Dwight Howard is good, has a relatively low contract and is his team's star.

I traded Marbury, Balkman and Curry to Boston for Ray Allen, Scalabrine and Pollard.

Ray Allen has a rating of 88...Dwight Howard has 86. But even if I offer Allen and two other guys for low rated players and each of my players has a higher rating than the player I will get in exchange the computer says no.

Without Dwight Howard Orlando wouldn't have a good center. I would have to offer one so maybe I should try to trade Marbury and Curry for a good center. Unfortunately, there are few good centers in the league. Allen for Yao Ming would work concerning ratings but Houston does not want to give up their star center either.

[asgsjb]

Again, as I don't have updated rosters, what I say worked for me could be completely different than what will work for you, but I added Ming and Howard (using Howard at PF) and here's the specific deals I did to get them:

- To get Ming: Houston wanted a good SF and a good PG, so I traded Gerald Wallace (64 OVR) and Jason Williams (74 OVR) to Houston for Ming and Clarence Weatherspoon (who I dropped, but I needed to get him in the deal to make it work). As Houston now needed a C, I traded Ilgauskas to Houston to get Jason Williams back (I had acquired Ilgauskas early on by trading Tim Thomas to Cleveland). I love Gerald Wallace, so I re-acquired him by trading Linton Johnson (a free agent) and PG Derek Fisher (acquired in a trade so I could move him to PG-hungry Houston) to Houston for Wallace and SG Gaines (who I dropped...again, I needed to acquire him to make the deal work).

- To get Howard: I preferred to have Howard over Okafor, so I traded Okafor and Jason Williams to Memphis for Gasol and Battier. I then signed free agent darvin Ham and then traded Battier (66 OVR) and Ham to Orlando for Howard.

So it all can be done. I can't even begin to list all the deals I did because there are so many. But I started with the original '05 Knicks, and through a lot of creative drafting a desire to revamp the team to fit my image of what the Knicks should be (talented, young, inexpensive), my present roster looks like this:

PG Hinrich
PG Barbosa
SG Kobe
SG Houston
SG Mo Pete
SF Rashard Lewis
SF Josh Smith
SF Kyle Korver
PF Gasol
PF Howard
C Ming
C Mihm
C Haywood

My priciest contracts are Kobe ($15.95M), Houston ($19.12M), then Rashard Lewis ($8.58M), then Ming ($5.6M) and Mo Pete ($5M)...all other contracts are pretty well below $5M. Houston comes off my books this season and I will be able to trade Kobe next season for Redd (far cheaper and very talented in Live '05) and an expiring contract. Those moves will bring me to approximately $100K over the cap. Pretty sweet. And the team rocks...they play exactly as I like Live '05 teams to play (quick driving, 3 point shooting PG's...relatively tall, quick driving, 3 point shooting SG's...speedy, dunking SF's...tall and powerful PF's who can score and defend...and tall and powerful C's who also can score and defend).

So while your maneuvers may be different due to the roster update, the strategies apply across the board. It looks like you're well on the way, so keep working at it and enjoying.

[Leander]

Trading is driving me nuts. The AI is unfair and simply bullshit.

I was able to trade Curry, Richardson and Morris for Yao Ming, Harris and Woods.

Moreover, I traded Marbury, Fred Jones and Balkman for Tony Parker, Kurt Thomas and Vaughn.

But this (swear words!!!) AI just doesn't let me trade for D. Howard.

I wanted to send Yao Ming, Nate Robinson and L. Woods to the Magic for Howard, Foyle and Gortat.

Yao Ming's overall rating is only TWO points lower!

It is 84 / 68 / 50 for 86 / 51 / 36.
Come on!!!!

[Andrew]

What's the Magic's record and their interest in the players you are offering? Sometimes teams just don't want to give up their star player, even if the overall ratings in the trade are balanced or in their favour.

[Leander]

The interest is ok.

With some trade actions I could get the following players:

D. Howard
Z. Randolph
Q. Richardson
J. Crawford
T. Parker
Ewing
Lee
Jeffries

Gortat, Mbenga, Vaughn etc.

My S5 is great but again I lack backup guards.

[Andrew]

Maybe you can swing some deals for some lower rated guards. As long as you've got shooting guards decent offensive ratings and some height and point guards who have decent ballhandling and speed ratings, they should suffice coming off the bench.

[Leander]

Things are taking shape...I want to have a roster with all my fav. Knicks, with depth and without Knicks I do not like that much.

1st trade: Stephon Marbury and Fred Jones <--> Tony Parker and Kurt Thomas

Reason: getting rid of Marbury. Jones is not that important.
Not realistic but I take what I get. Trading is difficult enough anyway.

2nd trade: Kurt Thomas and Randolph Morris <--> Damon Jones and Eric Snow

Reason: I need guards! And do not want to have Thomas on my roster AGAIN (played enough him with in my 2003 dynasty)...besides, I have enough PFs.

=====================

Ok, with Curry, Randolph, Richardson, Crawford and Tony Parker my starting five is good and I kept my Knicks.
The bench is good as well, with Ewing, Lee, Robinson, Damon Jones...

Having Tony Parker on the roster is brilliant to any team but not mine.
I want to get realistic scores and points distribution. Randolph scores, Crawford scores...Tony Parker scores. I cannot score so many points in a game.

Therefore, I traded Tony Parker and Eric Snow (old, low-rated and expensive) to Indiana for Mike Dunleavy and Jamal Tinsley. The PG now has a lower rating but with Dunleavy I get more depth. Damon Jones, Balkman and Jeffries are not sufficient to fill positions 2 and 3.

Nobody would trade Tony Parker away but...I think I like this idea.

Should I go for:

Curry / Ewing
Randolph / Lee
Richardson / Balkman or Jeffries
Crawford / Jones
Parker / Robinson

or

Curry / Ewing
Randolph / Lee
Richardson / Dunleavy or Balkman or Jefferies
Crawford / Jones or Dunleavy
Tinsley / Robinson

What do you think?

If Randolph or Crawford averaged 10ppg in reality I would keep Tony Parker...but I cannot score e.g. 15 with Randolph, 18 with Parker, 20 with Crawford, 12 with Curry...10 with Ewing and Lee etc.

Ah...ok... LOL I just see that Dunleavy has 19ppg. Ooops.
Still I prefer starters coming off the bench and scoring fewer points to starters scoring fewer points than in reality.

[Andrew]

Personally, I'd look at it from the perspective of creating your own reality. I like going for realism as well but consider that the Spurs wouldn't have made that deal in real life so you've already created a custom NBA reality and within that reality, if that is the Knicks lineup then their numbers wouldn't be exactly as they are in real life.

However, if you don't want a point guard that scores as much as Tony Parker, maybe you should go for someone like Tinsley who is capable of having big scoring games but doesn't do so consistently.

[asgsjb]

While Parker is clearly a better PG in the real NBA, I frankly like Tinsley beyyer than Parker in Live '05. But I happen to love a PG who can hit the 3. With Tinsley, I can charge to the hoop or settle back and hit the 3. With Parker, I have no choice on long-distance shooting...he can't do it. Plus, if I recall right, Tinsley is better with steals and defense. So I think you made out great by getting Tinsley.

[Leander]

I decided to start my dynasty with the default Knicks' roster. The Knicks are not good at the moment and Tony Parker on the roster is not realistic as Andrew mentions.

I followed this season and watched games and therefore, I want to play with the real Knicks. I will only trade players in the course of the season, usually when they play badly.