A Petition for Change

I know a few people that would help other people with their dynasties with different things such as revlin making that commercial on the video and if I'm not mistaken, he helped cocobee do something to help make his videos for his all-star weekend.

For the record, I taught myself. I always do--I hate asking people to do things for me because I want it to be "my" work and not anybody elses. You just have to want to experiment and try new things. There are a lot of ways other people can make there dynasties different. When i fist got Live 2000, I had to ask and claw my way to learn things. I'm just the type of person that I'll want to learn something because I don't want to be "that guy" that can't do anything.

BTW--again, wasn't this the reason you guys came up with livedynasty.com? You're telling me you want people to post dynasties on both forums? What would be the benefit of having both forums identical? To spread it out? Spread what out?

Okay Cocobee, are you talking about Livedynasty.com? Or the Livedynasty.com forums…I need clarity here please.
Okay, in my defense...the origianal purpose and intent of Livedynasty.com was to "extend the bounds of the NBA live experience" as an add-on to the dynasty thread here on NLSC.

this was kind of grandious way of saying, I just wanted a platform to automate the Birdie Board formula...so it didn't take me hours upon hours with math manipluation..
...with webspace that provided me to host my code, came a domain name: livedynasty.com
Since I did see there were tons of dynasties that we're getting past the first season, I was thinking, what's one way that I can help ALL OF YOU...want to keep going and pushing and pushing that dynasty to the next year and next, what's something that I can do to make it just that more interesting.
I chose the Birdie Board concept because, yes, it's a slightly original idea that can't be easily duplicated(at least not yet) and teamed up with Donatello, he encouraged me to add the Message Board- in agreement on the condition that we do not compete with NLSC…I mean how can you? And now all this is going on, so now it's "what kind of monster has Honor Glow created?"

To a degree, reading somebody elses Dynasty is like reading a Biography(and there are a lot of biographies out there)…in the light of qballer, do you actively seek out to read some normal Joe Schmo…no…but you will read it if the person is original, creative, or, has done something beyond the norm. Are the majority of our dynastys represent a norm? Perhaps… but give them time to mull over possibilities, people can create something very artistic. But you need to encourage them along the way. Not all our dynasty threads can be an almost instant hit like Cocobee's…unfortunately, for most of us, we get bored of the game and then the Dynasty thread goes into oblivion anyway.

I'm a bit off track, my point is: I love NBA Live, and I know you guys too…the NBA efficiency rating/Birdie Rating for YOUR OWN DYNASTY is a fairly new concept that I thought many of you would feel could be applicable(from the looks of my Thread views…I can kind of accept the fact that it may not be) To answer Cocobee's question of what's my intent…to help the NLSC community…I don't code to 2am for self gratification and I wish I could give more of my "3 cents" on every person's honest effort for their dynasties.

Donatello and I were just brainstorming on ideas to get people to participate…one strategy was to include a message board. I can't believe by Donatello and I trying to help out the community, we're finally getting these Dynasty dissertations from all of you(which in sense, in one way, is a good thing..hence a forum) and offending some which is not at all intentional(now I know how Kobe feels about the Karl Malone thingy)

I feel Donatello just truly wanted to help out the truly great Dynasty threads, encourage 'Rookie Dynasters' to work hard and create something truly creative in time, and help me spread the concept of "bringing your stats to life"…I'm glad that everybody has had the chance to express their feelings but I hope you understand Donatello's viewpoint and that he meant no harm what so ever… …um, me neither. I back up Donatello's idea of putting up a message board on livedynasty.com. Again, having a website "add-on" as an homage to NLSC is a fairly new concept, so we're still on the learning curve here. We need patience in this inasmuch as any new idea that comes around the corner.

Last edited by HonorGlow on Fri Dec 10, 2004 8:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

BTW--again, wasn't this the reason you guys came up with livedynasty.com? You're telling me you want people to post dynasties on both forums? What would be the benefit of having both forums identical? To spread it out? Spread what out?
Just my 2 cents. Drew, Do whatcha like man.

Okay Cocobee, are you talking about Livedynasty.com? Or the Livedynasty.com forums…I need Clarity here please.
Okay, in my defense...the origianal purpose of Livedynasty.com was to "extend the bounds of the NBA live experience"...

this was kind of grandious way of saying, I just wanted a platform to automate the Birdie Board...so it didn't take me hours upon hours with math manipluation..
...with webspace that provided me to host my code, came a domain name: livedynasty.com
Since I did see there were tons of dynasties that we're getting past the first season, I was thinking, what's one way that I can help ALL OF YOU...want to keep going and pushing and pushing that dynasty to the next year and next, what's something that I can do to make it just that more interesting.
I chose the Birdie Board concept because, yes, it's a slightly original idea that can't be easily duplicated(at least not yet) and teamed up with Donatello, he encouraged me to add the Message Board- in agreement on the condition that we do not compete with NLSC…I mean how can you? And now all this is going on, so now it's "what kind of monster has Honor Glow created?"

To a degree, reading somebody elses Dynasty is like reading a Biography(and there are a lot of biographies out there)…in the light of qballer, do you actively seek out to read some normal Joe Schmo…no…but you will read it if the person is original, creative, or, has done something beyond the norm. Are the majority of our dynastys represent a norm? Perhaps… but give them time to mull over possibilities, people can create something very artistic. But you need to encourage them along the way. Not all our dynasty threads can be an almost instant hit like Cocobee's…unfortunately, for most of us, we get bored of the game and then the Dynasty thread goes into oblivion anyway.

I'm a bit off track, my point is: I love NBA Live, and I know you guys too…the NBA efficiency rating/Birdie Rating for YOUR OWN DYNASTY is a fairly new concept that I thought many of you would feel could be applicable(from the looks of my Thread views…I can kind of accept the fact that it may not be) To answer Cocobee's question of what's my intent…to help the NLSC community…I don't code to 2am for self gratification and I wish I could give more of my "3 cents" on every person's honest effort for their dynasties.

Donatello and I were just brainstorming on ideas to get people to participate…one strategy was to include a message board. I can't believe by Donatello and I trying to help out the community, we're finally getting these Dynasty dissertations from all of you(which in sense, in one way, is a good thing..hence a forum) and offending some which is not at all intentional(now I know how Kobe feels about the Karl Malone thingy)

I feel Donatello just truly wanted to help out the truly great Dynasty threads, encourage 'Rookie Dynasters' to work hard and create something truly creative in time, and help me spread the concept of "bringing your stats to life"…I'm glad that everybody has had the chance to express their feelings but I hope you understand Donatello's viewpoint and that he meant no harm what so ever… …um, me neither.

and you said that it was hard for you to explain things that basically explained everything in a way and im glad you posted that.

and you said that it was hard for you to explain things that basically explained everything in a way and im glad you posted that.

Well, Mafia, compared to you and everybody else on this particular thread, in terms of explaining things, you guys are definitely in the Pro thread and I feel like I'm the rookie.

Totally.... Honor Glow hit it dead-on, there.

I have zero clue whatsoever how something like this could end up with any hostility going on- you yourself, Cocobee, just a few days ago, were saying you were going to move your dynasty if you didn't get more comments- so how can you tell the rest of us to not complain about lack of comments?. All I was saying is that the majority of the people who I have talked to about the system we implemented on the livedynasty.com forums have liked it- and several people have gone over there exclusively (AKA not posting their dynasty on NLSC anymore)- and I quickly realized that that wasn't at all what I wanted, so I brought up the concept to do something similar here- and after Andrew's thought-provoking comment, I realized that on a scale this large the Rookie/Pro system just wouldn't work- and I agreed that a split to two sections would be best. (that was a huge run-on sentence )

This is a forum for discussion- It's not like we are playing our dynasties SO we can post them (well, I know I'm not)- we post them to generate comments and discussion about them. That is the purpose of a MESSAGE BOARD.

On the topic of originality, while part of me agrees with you completely, part of me also says someone had to be the first one to post their dynasty. Therefore everyone who subsoquently posted a Dynasty was not being original. Someone had to be the first to post a screenshot- someone had to be the first to "___________" (insert feature there).....and it continued from there. BUT I DO AGREE THAT PEOPLE DO DIRECTLY TAKE IDEAS WITHOUT AT LEAST GIVING CREDIT.

And it's not like, for example, the "Rookie Diary" was of your own creation, cocobee......NBA.com inspired you to do that, just as you inspired someone else to do it. Just for an example. No offense to you there, but when you're in an environment like this, it happens.I bet most of you wear blue jeans. I bet you wouldn't be wearing blue jeans if someone else hadn't before you.

This whole thing has gotten blown out of proportion...it was just an attempt to strengthen the community.....and I guess all it has done is shown a weakness. I apologize for that.

On a different subject- Honor Glow has worked his ass off for months for the features of livedynasty.com- the forum was launched a week ago. The Rookie/Pro thing was NOT the purpose of creating livedynasty.com. That wasn't even the purpose of the forum- just an idea I had a couple days after opening the forum.

Because I'm human, I have to throw my one little agressive jab in here.....and I'm sorry in advance. It's probably just jealousy.

Cocobee- it's easy for you to feel that way, because when you posted that you might not continue your dynasty, the world wept at your knees. And while I realize that this is a tribute to how much people like your dynasty- the point must be made that when I stopped my Nets dynasty, not one person said a word. Not a peep- and then I worked very hard on the first recap for my Magic dynasty. And while it's not 'original' as you say, It isn't directly ripping anyone off, it's just posting pictures, text, and recaps...but I worked about an hour on the post, and I got 2 lousy comments for it (which I appreciated ). The purpose of posting a dynasty here IS for comments and discussion...if you can argue that, well....hopefully you can't. Forum=message board=discussion.

Okay, I'm glad that my agressive bit is over.


I'll re-emphasize that It wasn't my intention to cause any problems with this......especially since we dropped the rookie/pro idea one I read Andrew's comments. I hope there's no reason to continue this hostility.

First off, don't lay this all on me. Jae also felt the same way. Maybe some people out there too.

Please get the facts straight, I said I was going to move my dynasty to a forum where I seem to be getting more responses. I just found it funny that people on other forums were e-mailing me about my dynasty and commenting but didn't wanna join NLSC so they could comment. So I contemplated about moving it to there forum. It just seemed that the interest was there and it would be pointless to post at 2 places. Not to mention time consuming, something I have not that much of. But I decided to keep it here since I had everything already in place. I wasn't looking for hand outs or sympathy by my post. But the love I got was well appreciated.

The Rookie Diary was from Slam. It's not about ideas, it's about taking them and making them your own. That's all I was talking about. Dude, you know nothing about me..I have made shit for people here and help them start there dynasty even though I don't have much time.

I have no beef with Honor Glow, I have nothing but respect for that man. What he's doing is great! I have supported him since the early stages of the birdies last year. I for one appreciated everything he's done for the community.

Because I'm human, I have to throw my one little agressive jab in here.....and I'm sorry in advance. It's probably just jealousy.

Cocobee- it's easy for you to feel that way, because when you posted that you might not continue your dynasty, the world wept at your knees. And while I realize that this is a tribute to how much people like your dynasty- the point must be made that when I stopped my Nets dynasty, not one person said a word. Not a peep- and then I worked very hard on the first recap for my Magic dynasty. And while it's not 'original' as you say, It isn't directly ripping anyone off, it's just posting pictures, text, and recaps...but I worked about an hour on the post, and I got 2 lousy comments for it (which I appreciated ). The purpose of posting a dynasty here IS for comments and discussion...if you can argue that, well....hopefully you can't. Forum=message board=discussion.

Where I'm from, that's called "HATING".
Use that "HATE" to make a different off the wall dynasty. Use it to motivate you to create a better dynasty. You think I let these people stop me..it motivates me to try something different.

It's all good man. Good luck with your dynasty

thanks for the luck

and, i didn't mean to place it all on you. i know other people said stuff too...i was just directly replying to what you said. if i didn't say "cocobee--" before it, it wasn't to just you

i, myself....am having trouble of thinking of anything. in the world of sports reporting/journalism/tv news/whatever other medium there is......there's only so much you can do......i really don't know that there are many new ideas to be thought of- it's not like you can do THAT much and still stay in the realm of realistic sports reporting....not saying this to argue, just saying it to explain why maybe all the dynasties are starting to look the same (mine included). i suppose I could do "Dynasty Reports from Beedooo the Martian" or something......

I, personally, do have one idea that I'm going to implement pretty soon that I'm pretty sure no dynasty has done before-and if it has been done, i haven't seen it anyway.......i want you specifically to know, cocobee- that i like you and didn't mean to offend you at all. hope we're cool

We're cool.

This is gonna be long, please read it though.

As for having the same looking dynasties, people wouldn't even respond after someone asks them what are they doing wrong in their dynasty for people not to respond. Since everybody is doing the same thing, who is going to take the time out to do something new that will take double the time they already do to have a dynasty that people never respond to anyway?

As I said in my previous post, the reason I don't respond to Dynasty's is because they're all the same. What's the point in posting something in say 3 or 4 separate Dynasty stories that all look and feel exactly the same? If people did put in the effort then maybe people would bother to respond to them

Like I said before, it's alot of ideas I can have, but lack of technology experience on stuff such as photoshop keeps me from doing it. If someone is more experience in photoshop than me and can come up with more ideas because that person is more experienced with technology then of course he is going to have alot more ideas. You shouldn't judge people who don't always have the tools to make their dynasty better and they use what they have

This is a fantastic example of how to mis understand what I meant by new idea's.

I'm not talking about fucking around with Photoshop or making video's, I mean just general idea's. They don't have to be visual or technological, just something that makes whoever's Dynasty stand out from someone elses. Look at this Seonadancing bloke's Dynasty. It's all words, in article form and it's very well written. He doesn't have pictures or radio shows or whatever other fancy thing someone can come up with. It's all about creativity. To be honest, I'd rather read a dynasty that was all words and no pictures if that person could come up with something interesting to keep me interested. I don't want to read game reports that are virtually identical to everyone elses, it's boring and pointless.

After having a regular format from like last year dynasty, nobody really wasn't that excited about it anyway then after I saw how many people had the "new" format I saw people responding and I decided to switch to the new format.

So you saw this new format was getting more attention, and the key was that you saw how many people had the "new" format surely you could've recognized that if everyone took this new format it would gradually become boring, like the regular format? Why didn't you try and come up with a format of your own, something that would differentiate you from the others and due to the fact that you're not just following the pack you're trying to be original. People would recognize that and respect it.

I think people should start helping people out in the dynasties to help them coming up with more ideas by actually giving the person suggestions in their thread

I'm not sure I agree with this, I mean the key to creativity and originality is people thinking for themselves. If everyone's just using the idea's that others come up with, there's nothing creative about it that's just basically following the same thing that's happening now.

How would some people know that their dynasty needs a change when nobody comes out and say what your doing wrong or how to make it better?

That's a very good point, but at the same time there's been a few times (mainly in the Live 2004 Dynasties) where I've commented on how similar the format of someone's Dynasty is to everyone elses, and they just usually reply with "Yeah I know lol, awell". I think the idea would work only if people will listen.

If someone has an idea that they can't use, then why not try to help that person out with the idea to help the other people learn how to use different tools. I know a few people that would help other people with their dynasties with different things such as revlin making that commercial on the video and if I'm not mistaken, he helped cocobee do something to help make his videos for his all-star weekend.

But again, those aren't original idea's. They're just basically the things that are happening now, and also you don't need video's or commercials to have a good Dynasty story.

EDIT: I will also like to add that if your playing 82 games, play every game and give a solid update each time you play it, it will take awhile to finish a season. It's not THAT easy to finish a 82 game season when you play your games. If I could sim most of the game and like play in the 4th quarter, I wouldn't be able to really write recaps (which is my best asset to a dynasty). My recaps wouldn't be that good, because I wouldn't know what happened in the other quarters I played. So that would take away from something that I do well.

You don't have to give recap's for every game though. Something alot of people do in Championship Manager stories is give a result/top scorers for 5 or so games then do a big recap for a good game, you don't need to give a full page 6 paragraph recap after a game where you beat the Bulls by 30. Or why not even sim the "lesser" games and just play/give recaps for the main ones, i.e against play-off teams.

It's fun to do it, but either way it seems that if you get hardly any recognition for posting it won't make things better. Taking about two hours out of your day to post a dynasty (even though you like to do it) kinda makes you feel bad when nobody responds to it and if you don't like the dynasty then why not say some things that can help make the dynasty better?

That's a valid point and I understand that, but why not try to come up with something that will give people no option other than to reply to your Dynasty. If you come up with a kick ass idea, or something brand new people are bound to say something about it.

I was thinking, what's one way that I can help ALL OF YOU...want to keep going and pushing and pushing that dynasty to the next year and next, what's something that I can do to make it just that more interesting.
I chose the Birdie Board concept because, yes, it's a slightly original idea that can't be easily duplicated(at least not yet)

And that's a great way to help the Dynasty community. I mean it annoys me a bit that people haven't fully embraced the Birdie Board idea (not that it isn't popular) but at the same time it's definitely a step in the right direction for being original and freshening things up.

On the topic of originality, while part of me agrees with you completely, part of me also says someone had to be the first one to post their dynasty. Therefore everyone who subsoquently posted a Dynasty was not being original. Someone had to be the first to post a screenshot- someone had to be the first to "___________" (insert feature there).....and it continued from there. BUT I DO AGREE THAT PEOPLE DO DIRECTLY TAKE IDEAS WITHOUT AT LEAST GIVING CREDIT.

That's true, but my problem is that people take alot of idea's and copy them exactly. I mean sure people post screen shots etc, and no one's ever going to be truely and entirely original but why can't people just put their own spin on things? If you like an idea you don't have to duplicate it exactly in your own Dynasty. Take the influence, and make up your own idea from it.

And it's not like, for example, the "Rookie Diary" was of your own creation, cocobee......NBA.com inspired you to do that, just as you inspired someone else to do it.

Maybe so, but no one else was using the Rookie Diary at the time. I don't care if someone completely steals an idea from some other website and puts it to use in their Dynasty as long as it's something that hasn't been used in another Dynasty. THAT is what makes it original, the way it's been implimented.

First off, don't lay this all on me. Jae also felt the same way.

And I still do. It annoys me that people won't use their minds to come up with something. I mean, to be honest with cocobee's Dynasty stories I won't admit to being a big fan because I wasn't. I liked them but I never kept up or anything (partially because of 56k) but I mean his team always won and his players averaged massive numbers. But I respect him because he always tried to come up with something new and that's what it's all about. I mean people can have a team of Shaq/KG/T-Mac/Kobe/Kidd and win every game by 50, but they could STILL make the Dynasty interesting just by making it something original.

I pretty much understand what you were saying at first now after you replied to my post. It's just all in the matter of thinking and taking your time basically.

This is honestly the most productive conversation I've seen on the boards in a very long time. (that wasn't sarcastic)

I agree that all the dynasties are similar, that isn't something that has really bothered me though- but I'm 'different'...and I failed to look at it from your perspective though. I'll be doing my part to make mine unique

Jae, thanks for saying what I was trying to say.
Respect.

First of all, I must offer an apology for not responding more in other Dynasty threads. There's a few reasons I haven't been so active this year though.

Apart from being busier with work and focusing on other areas of the site (running it more so than participating in the forum), I also have a slow connection and a monthly download limit (which I can exceed, for a price but I like to keep my usage in check) which means I can't always give threads with pictures as much attention, especially on the old server after the problems caused the forum to load much more slowly. I'll try to participate a little more when I've got the time to offer constructive comments.

With last year's Dynasty and the new one I've started for NBA Live 2005, my main aim is to just enjoy the game and play it because I want to - which I certainly do. But sharing game recaps and experiences is as old as the time that NBA Live and the World Wide Web first came into contact with one another, and I enjoy doing that too. Personally, I maintain my Dynasty thread mainly for my own record and for others to read. Feedback is certainly welcome and I'm grateful for the people who show the interest, but it's definitely more fun to play your own Dynasty than read someone else's.

That's not a knock on anyone else's Dynasty - trust me, from your perspective, playing your own Dynasty is a lot more fun than reading about mine. Swapping stories only offers a certain amount of interaction, so the interest won't always be there. All I'm saying is, it's not as easy to draw attention to Dynasty threads as it is, say, a discussion in NBA Talk, a topic about gameplay tips or codes, or an update for the game.

That said, I think we should do what we can and I'm happy to help out however I can. A split into two sections is certainly worth a try, though I think that's more about organisation than traffic. I'm sure interest will rise a little but as Cocobee and Jae have said, the best way of attracting attention is to maintain a Dynasty that is interesting to read.

My advice for an interesting Dynasty would simply be to play a Dynasty that you're really into, one that you're enjoying and one that is providing you with excitement...well, as much excitement as a video game can offer at least.

As far as the split is concerned, I might put that off a couple of days as to be honest, I don't feel like doing much site maintenance tonight unless it's urgent (long day at work today ) and I most likely won't be online tomorrow. If there are any more suggestions or points to discuss, by all means post them and I'll get to them when I'm online next.

As far as the split is concerned, I might put that off a couple of days as to be honest, I don't feel like doing much site maintenance tonight unless it's urgent (long day at work today )

Rough translation: hangover

No, that's Sunday's excuse.

Hey Jae, thanks for mentioning my Dynasty there, i wasn't expecting my text Dynasty to be used as an example for worthwhile reading but thanks.... (i don't even know how to put up that thumbs up icon)

You've made everything clear for everyone regarding this Dynasty topic so thanks for that too.. Play On...

Anyway, no updates today, i mentioned that the weather here is sleep inducing so i slept for 12 hours . The Saga was postponed but it should begin this weekend...

yeh I like the idea but umm what about 2004 dynasty.....they'll get mixed in this too or what.....course Im practically the only one with a 2004 dynasty but yeah just like to know

Anyway, today itself theirs like 4 new dynasty's being posted...I think NLSC should consider having a diff section for dynasty issues and dynasty stories.