Can't decide if I should buy or wait

I've been following all the NBA Live 2005 news I can handle, on IGN, Gamespot, and here. I've seen most of the videos, like the complete games, and I've read the reviews from the various game sites, including this one.

From what I can see, there are definitely improvements in gameplay. But my dissapointment is that I feel that the NBA Live team spent too much time implementing new, extraneous features (like All-star weekend) when the time could have been better spent really fine-tuning the gameplay. Every year, they say there's "improved AI," but like every year I'm sure there will be annoying problems which are evident right away that will make me go, "Why the hell couldn't they have addressed THAT obvious problem!?"

Now, I know it might be premature to gripe about this, seeing as how I haven't even played the game yet. And yes, all the previews seem to be overwhelmingly positive so far. But I can't ignore the glaring problems I see with my own eyes upon watching the full game between the Rockets and Spurs on IGN. I'll list some of them:

- Goaltending STILL is not being called when the ball is on the rim, and instead it counts as a block.

- On freethrows, the CPU again substitutes only after the second shot.

- Substitution patterns for the CPU are messed up. Duncan got three fouls in the first half. Ok, he sits down as expected. But guess what, he doesn't return until the fourth quarter! How ridiculous is that? We had to suffer through the same wacky substitution patterns in '04. As far as I can tell, no improvements were made in this area.

- The commentary is basically the same, which is good or bad depending on how much you liked '04's commentary. One glaring problem for me is that Marv Albert doesn't do play by play during the half court sets. Meaning, if you pass the ball around or penetrate, he's basically silent. Only when you attempt a shot or do some free styling will he say anything about the action. It makes the play-by-play feel unnatural and choppy, in my opinion. But perhaps this isn't an easy thing to do well.

Perhaps I'm in the minority here, but when I play Live I only play against the CPU. I just don't have anyone else to play with, and I can't play online. So, for me its a priority that the CPU plays as realistically as possible, and that the way it plays is extremely customizable. Live 2004 took a step in the right direction with sliders last year. But so much more could be done, in my opinion. Obvious things, like making the CPU be less aggressive with its three point shooting and take more mid-range jumpers or configuring sensible substitution patterns. What worries me is that in absolutely none of the previews I have read has it even been suggested that Live 2005 offers improvements in this regard. In fact, it appears that gameplay might be LESS customizable, as I have read that the PRIMACY rating for a player can't be edited anymore. That blows my mind. So, if some role player all of a sudden explodes offensively next season and becomes the man or the second option on his team, there'd be no way to make the appropriate adjustments in the game.

Some may say that Live has made the gameplay more realistic, so its not necessary to be able to customize it. I'm sorry, but I just can't accept this. EA ALWAYS claims to have made their gameplay more realistic, and every year I wish I could tweak things. While there might be some improvements with 2005, I'm sure its not going to be perfect and I'm sure I'll be annoyed with the lack of some customizable options again.

Those who play the PC version can at least do DBF editing to access certain customizations that aren't available in the interface. I personally don't understand why EA doesn't allow the user to access all of these options through the interface itself. What harm would there be in that?

The thing is, I know why EA went the route they did, and decided to implement new glitzy features instead of really addressing all the known problems and fixing them the right way. They need to sell games, and showing the dunk contest in the ads is a bigger draw for most than if they simply fixed all the gameplay issues and made things totally customizable. My guess (and hope) is that EA will concentrate more on gameplay/sliders next year. So while I'm tempted to buy 2005, I think it might be smarter for me to wait.

Things I'd hope that EA works on for 2006, in order of priority, are:

- Fix all the bugs which obviously go against the rules (goaltending when the ball is on the rim is the BIG one that apparently hasn't been addressed still)

- Make CPU substitutions much smarter, and more customizable (including fixing the freethrow substitution bug)

- Continue to improve spacing and AI, and make player's decisions within the team's offensive and defensive sets more realistic and reflective of their real life tendencies. Extensive per-player customization options to allow the user to tweak individual player tendencies should be available. For instance, how often they penetrate and what kind of shots they like to take (off the dribble or catch and shoot).

- Improve the general gameplay sliders. One suggestion off the top of my head: blocking dunks frequency should be SEPARATE from blocking layup frequency. In 2004, its way too easy to block a dunk, particularly for the CPU. The fact is that in the NBA, dunks aren't blocked very often. Usually, coaches encourage player to "take it up strong" to prevent getting the ball swatted away, but the opposite is true in Live -- a dunk shot is more likely to get blocked away than a short jumper or layup.

- Just like you have player editing, there should be TEAM editing as well. You should be able to configure the type of offensive and defensive sets used and how often they are used during the game, for instance.

- Fix all the gameplay annoyances, like the crippling animation sequences that prevent you from controlling your players and going after lose balls. Hopefully most of these will be addressed in 2005.

- An improved practice mode, which allow 5 on 5 scrimmages. I'm think there should be something similar to Madden, where a coach talks you through offensive plays and how to execute them the right way. They could get Mike Fratello to do this part.

- Make ALL teams editable (including the all star and legend teams), and allow the user to create new teams.

Presentation stuff
- Improve play by play. Also, commentators should say common names. One idea is to create two databases: all unique last names and all unique first names of every player who played in the NBA. This actually won't be as big as one might expect. There should be a sound sample of Marv Albert (and maybe Fratello too) saying each of these names. Suppose I want to create a player: "Greg Thomas." Becuase "Greg" and "Thomas" both exist in the the first name and last name database, respectively, Marv Albert would be able to say that name during the game. The advantage of this would also be that you could create a Legend who wasn't included with the game (Jerry West, for instance), and have the announcers say his name.

- Add more cutscenes during the game to make it feel more like a television broadcast. Examples: players on the bench, the coach screaming at the refs, players walking towards the locker rooms at half time, player subbing in, giving the freethrow shooter a pat or hand slap, exhuberant player reactions on amazing shots or game winners, showing coach or bench player reaction shots on replays, etc. The ESPN games do a better job at this than Live, and I'd like to see Live make big improvements in this category. I understand that some people might feel that this will bog down the game, but there could always be a customization option to tone it down or turn it off. For those of us who'd get a kick out of it, I think it should implemented.

Damn, this is a long post. Ok, I'll stop now. Just needed to get this off of my chest.

If you don't want to try out the dunk contest and better gameplay at the expense of the game looking more like it's a television broadcast, go watch television... The games start in november, so you can get the authentic NBA experience even without touching your PS2/XBOX.

The cut scenes are something that every player will skip in a week or two so their value really isn't worth anything. It makes for a good first impression... That just lasts so long.

And anyway... Live will rule as long as ESPN isn't coming out on PC.

If you don't want to try out the dunk contest and better gameplay at the expense of the game looking more like it's a television broadcast, go watch television... The games start in november, so you can get the authentic NBA experience even without touching your PS2/XBOX.

The cut scenes are something that every player will skip in a week or two so their value really isn't worth anything. It makes for a good first impression... That just lasts so long.

And anyway... Live will rule as long as ESPN isn't coming out on PC.

Dunk Contest I'm not so interested in. What I care about most IS gameplay, and that's exactly what I'm worried about. I know there are probably some improvements, but from what I've seen its not significantly better than '04. I'll probably rent it when its available and test it out for myself, though, before buying.

The TV presentation stuff, if you notice, I put last on the list. That is, it's something I'd like, but there are other things I'd want EA to work on before they got to it. I will say that if it was a choice between them making the game feel more like a TV presentation (better commentary, highlights, cutscenes, half-time and post-game analysis) versus adding the All-star weekend stuff, I'd just better presentation. Just my tastes.

AH

thats WHY live is better than espn.

epsn is just like TV, only stiff and not real.

LIVE on the other hand, understands that

it is a video game

and therefore has unique video game qualities,

a "mario bros" feel if you will,

it's just special.

AH

thats WHY live is better than espn.

epsn is just like TV, only stiff and not real.

LIVE on the other hand, understands that

it is a video game

and therefore has unique video game qualities,

a "mario bros" feel if you will,

it's just special.

Have you seen these? Pretty cool stuff and the commentary is better also, IMO.

I'm guessing that Live will have better control and, overall, be a better BASKETBALL simulation, but we really can't be sure of that at this point. Presentation-wise, though, I think ESPN has Live solidly beat. Some may consider that stuff superficial, but I like it. And I hope EA makes some improvements in that area next year, since they apparently haven't done anything about it this time.

I also agree that they should spend more time on the game then the presentation. In the replays of those Live 05 vids, I didn't really like them, they were short and more to the point (some replays had the player already in the air), but it doesn't bother me, because after awhile, I will end of skipping them anyway, and I know my online opponent doesn't want to watch them either.

wow those vids make shaq run so fast lol

AH

thats WHY live is better than espn.

epsn is just like TV, only stiff and not real.

LIVE on the other hand, understands that

it is a video game

and therefore has unique video game qualities,

a "mario bros" feel if you will,

it's just special.

I've always had trouble wording exactly why I love NBA Live, and dislike ESPN. This post by vladiv is what I have been subconsiously thinking for the past couple years. The Mario Bros part is right on target. As simple as his explanation may be, its 100% true.

its the return of sho

Yes, yes it is