TALKING ABOUT GAMEPLAY AND HIS PRESUMED FLAWS

[fred.cad]

Hi everybody,

As a PC user, i just can't wait the next release of nba live wich looks great ! I'm a fan of nba live since nba live 97, i've played nba live 2000 for the last four years 'cause the latter versions could'nt work on my old computer....but now i'm upgraded for cheering the 2005 version...yesssss !
But i've read a lot of reviews on different forums who are very negative, i would like you to tell me if these critics are relevant or not...
fans seems to have a good karma on this forum so i will trust your opinions more than anyone else'.

these bugs below will be GAME KILLER BUG for me if they were true (

Presumed Minor Bug n°1 :
the pro Hop doesn't work anymore, he seems unusable (ends with a loose ball or a charge) now compare to last year where it was too powerful... too Powerful to unusable, EA resolve the last year bug in extreme fashion !!!

Presumed Minor Bug n°2 :
Once your are double-teamed, you can say goodbye to the ball as it is impossible to save your butt on that situation...

Presumed Minor Bug n°3 :
No fastbreaks possible, the Computer players are recovering to quickly so you're unable to finish alone on the break.... your running guy has not even the ball that a defender is already all over him, my o my....

Presumed MAJOR Bug n°4 :
The computer keep the game close so that you can't win easily even against the extremely dangerous Bobcats with their absolute superstar Emeka Okafor who threaten every inside players at this year olympics ...

Presumed MAJOR Bug n°5 :
The ratings have ABSOLUTELY NO EFFECTS on the Computer players...they all look like jordan, they score mid range jumpers from all over the place at very high percetanges. This bug is related to the bug n°4 in which the bobcats player seem to be the next Three-Peat champions...
Make this test : a computer guy with a 0 rating can still shot the damn ball well !!

Presumed MAJOR Bug n°6 :
The change in mid-air shot never goes in, on the contrary the computer make these shots...

So is nba live 2005 is that flawed ???
thanks for your answers !

Fred C

[carsley]

SLIDERS!!!

[Doug]

I don't even have the game yet but from people on these boards they've all said those bugs arent in the game and like the lastest guy said making the sliders better make the game that much better.

[fred.cad]

I don't even have the game yet but from people on these boards they've all said those bugs arent in the game and like the lastest guy said making the sliders better make the game that much better.

ok guys !
But are the sliders really the solution to all these problems ???

[oboeguy]

Pretty much "no" to all except the last, which I haven't tried. Take a deep breath now...

People whining about the pro-hop are nuts. It works nearly perfectly now (last year was ridiculous).

Edit: typo

[-BHZMAFIA-]

I'm glad you can't use the pro hop as affective because in real life, you don't see players pro hop every time they get the ball, especially when a defender is on you. It's still affective, but you have to be more careful at using it. When someone double teams you, I feel that its realistic as well. When 2 players get their hands on the ball, you shouldn't be able to pass the ball out just like that, because you will lose the ball. I agree with you on the computer making almost every jump shot. I was playing the Mavs in my dynasty and Stackhouse made a turnaround jumper over Posey and Battier....

[Sauru]

lol last year you could score 100 a game with crawford cause of the pro hop. it was stupid, glad they fixed it.

[oboeguy]

The thing that still bugs me is that dboule manual double-teams in the post don't seem to be very effective.

[Jay-Peso]

The thing that still bugs me is that dboule manual double-teams in the post don't seem to be very effective.

IMO, it works well for me.

It all depends on how you play defense, or how well your team plays defense.

[Spinners]

It is also alot easier and you get more success playing defense with players like Ben Wallace, Ron Artest and AK47. So if you are having trouble playing defense then maybe its the players you are using.

[cyanide]

Sliders can help with a lot of these issues, but if one is at the extreme, then there's nothing you can do till EA addresses these issues for next year. I wish I had the game (waiting for PC) so I can determine how well the pro-hop works. I was frustrated with the power of the pro-hop last year because Toni Kukoc could go right through Robert Parish and McHale and throw down a slam...

[fred.cad]

thanks for your answers guys

i guess this year at least EA has some good excuses...i've been told that there is a new feature which is huge , simply HUGE

[orb]

Having played around 10 games on the PS2 as the Celtics on allstar level (12min/quarter), no tweaks to sliders, this is what I think:

Presumed Minor Bug n°1 :
the pro Hop doesn't work anymore, he seems unusable (ends with a loose ball or a charge) now compare to last year where it was too powerful... too Powerful to unusable, EA resolve the last year bug in extreme fashion !!!
**Pro Hop is perfect now. You have to be a step ahead of the CPU for it to work. You can't just hop over people, which is unrealistic in the first place.**

Presumed Minor Bug n°2 :
Once your are double-teamed, you can say goodbye to the ball as it is impossible to save your butt on that situation...
** You can pass the ball out as long as you are quick enough. Harder to pass once you start losing control of the ball. Key is to dish once you see the double team coming.**

Presumed Minor Bug n°3 :
No fastbreaks possible, the Computer players are recovering to quickly so you're unable to finish alone on the break.... your running guy has not even the ball that a defender is already all over him, my o my....
** I have no problems with fast break. You lose the fast break when you try to pass a full court pass once you get the rebound. This is realistic since you don't see too many perect baseball passes from one end of the court to the other these days. You won't lose the break if you pass first to the pg (who has a better pass rating than your c) and then dish to the streaking wings. Another tip is to use the side view, since you will get a better view of whether you have a good passing lane.

Presumed MAJOR Bug n°4 :
The computer keep the game close so that you can't win easily even against the extremely dangerous Bobcats with their absolute superstar Emeka Okafor who threaten every inside players at this year olympics ...
** I had no trouble killing the Bobcats by over 20 pts and sat all starters out by the third quarter. Key is to call timeout when the other team starts building momentum. There are too many steals and blocks, and the players move too quick from one point to another, but these can be fixed easily by sliders.**

Presumed MAJOR Bug n°5 :
The ratings have ABSOLUTELY NO EFFECTS on the Computer players...they all look like jordan, they score mid range jumpers from all over the place at very high percetanges. This bug is related to the bug n°4 in which the bobcats player seem to be the next Three-Peat champions...
Make this test : a computer guy with a 0 rating can still shot the damn ball well !!
** CPU shoots well when you give it open looks. Sometimes the star players or the player that is hot may hit well guarded shots, but that happens in a real game as well. Besides, I have hit well guarded shots which I did not expect myself to make as well. So, it is fair. **

Presumed MAJOR Bug n°6 :
The change in mid-air shot never goes in, on the contrary the computer make these shots...
** Haven't tried many of those, but they go in once in awhile. Besides, you don't expect to see a team to make too many of those in a real game either.**[/b]

[Metsis]

I don't know how much you guys value Stackhouse, but he's one helluva scorer... He has been the top dog in two of his last teams (WAS and DET) and certainly knows how to score and can make those jumpers with defenders on him... He doesn't lose that ability once he's a bench player in Dallas. And he shouldn't lose it in the game either.

Stack is a great player. And the reason he was brought to Dallas was that he can keep the scoring going while the starters take a moments rest. So there will always be a go to guy on the court. Same role as Jamison had last season.

Don't know how Terry will fit into the fold, but that remains to be seen. I am not a big Dallas fan, but don't diss a player when he's good. Jamison might fit better for Washington.

[Matt]

its good to see that a lot of the probs can be fixed. A lot of them seem to be problems with the USER and not the game

[Syphon]

I can't wait to get this game, if what you say is true Orb I'm going to love playing every minute of NBA Live 2005!!

[XxMrLuckxX]

Bugs 1-2 are are easy fixes, plus I like the prohop the way it is now. It was abused far to much last year and most people relied on it far to much. Its not even used that much in the Pro game, should only be used to create space on a break/drive, so what they did to it in 05 is fine by me. As far as double teams...you can easily pass out of double team, thats not an issue this year.

Now ........

Bug 3....Yes, this is a problem, I dont think the game should be dominated by fast break points. But fast breaks do indeed happen, but we will not see to many of them on Live. Ive stolen the ball right at half court which in real life is an automatic, pretty much uncontested layup/dunk. For some reason, the defender is allowed to catch up to you before you even make it to the 3 pt line. (But I will be playing with sliders a bit to see if we can remedy this somewhat)

Bug 4 and 5...pretty much go hand in hand, we interviewed some developers on the ESPN series and got them to admit in previous versions...that this was a "normal" programming feature. So im sure the same will hold true for EA. Its very cheap and takes away from the whole "Sim" feel, another error is players dont play the same as their real life counterparts, players who are generally considered to be pass first type players chuck up 40+ shots per game. While players who should get the touches never see the ball. There is no slider that will fix that, this will have to be done in programming, So Bugs 4 and 5 are very apparent in Live 05. (Just to touch on what you said about Okafor, he is averaging 30 pts per game in my dynasty)

Bug 6....Quick slider adjustment can remedy this, but I know what you mean. Although I have made my fair share of adjusted shots, even made a few and got fouled in the process. The computer still makes them a bit more frequently than yourself. Again, slider fix.

Luck

[DJ Rhude]

I agree with Luck about the pro hop....last year it was far too easy and guys could pro hop their way to 70 points with guys like Charlie Ward.....not very realistic....this year, it has to be used in the right situations and not to bull your way thru traffic.....

Only thing that has annoyed me more this year, is the amount of times my men seem to shoot behind the backboard and it goes out of bounds.....the amount of blocks are too high as well as even with the slider at 0, they still block way too many, especially layup attempts....but all in all, Live has improved so much from last year and I'm enjoying it......

[fred.cad]

...

thanks for your answers, orb and mr luck !!

Luck said :

<<<<<Bug 4 and 5...pretty much go hand in hand, we interviewed some developers on the ESPN series and got them to admit in previous versions...that this was a "normal" programming feature. >>>>>

damn ! there is an option in nba live 2000 named "keep the game close" or something like that, check it and you'll always have a close game, check it not and the AI will not cheat so you can have close games and blow-out games as it happened sometimes in the real life...
Why they didn't put that option again ?? I mean i like closes games but i hate the AI cheating...

[nicosantos76]

Hi everybody,
Presumed Minor Bug n°1 :
the pro Hop doesn't work anymore, he seems unusable (ends with a loose ball or a charge) now compare to last year where it was too powerful... too Powerful to unusable, EA resolve the last year bug in extreme fashion !!!

Presumed Minor Bug n°2 :
Once your are double-teamed, you can say goodbye to the ball as it is impossible to save your butt on that situation...

Presumed Minor Bug n°3 :
No fastbreaks possible, the Computer players are recovering to quickly so you're unable to finish alone on the break.... your running guy has not even the ball that a defender is already all over him, my o my....

Presumed MAJOR Bug n°4 :
The computer keep the game close so that you can't win easily even against the extremely dangerous Bobcats with their absolute superstar Emeka Okafor who threaten every inside players at this year olympics ...

Presumed MAJOR Bug n°5 :
The ratings have ABSOLUTELY NO EFFECTS on the Computer players...they all look like jordan, they score mid range jumpers from all over the place at very high percetanges. This bug is related to the bug n°4 in which the bobcats player seem to be the next Three-Peat champions...
Make this test : a computer guy with a 0 rating can still shot the damn ball well !!

Presumed MAJOR Bug n°6 :
The change in mid-air shot never goes in, on the contrary the computer make these shots...

So is nba live 2005 is that flawed ???
thanks for your answers !

Fred C

Number 1: pro Hoop does work with the right players, fortunately it's not what it used to be, it's another offensive option as useful as the others, it's more balanced now but forget about trying it in traffic unless you are playing T Mac.

Number 2: wrong. Once you are doubled you can pass the ball, try to do it fast since it's a matter of time (very short time indeed) until u lose the ball.

Number 3: The CPU defensive players catching up your players is almost gone, once Francis has a free way to the basket there's no way CPU point guard will catch him running from behind (unless opposite PG is almost as fast or faster than he is). The number of Fastbreaks depends on which team you are playing, playing the Magic it is easier to fast break than playing Indiana. In superstar there aren't many fastbreaks, but I think it is OK.

Number 4: Hahahaha, Emeka is playing much better in this game than he did in the Olympics (he did??), but the CPU ain't keeping the games close. I defeated the Bobcats quite easily and the Nets not that easy, and the CPU didn't start shooting those fancy 3Ps with a hand on the shooters face but kept trying to find the wide open guy. The gameplay is the best ever, believe me, I have to study a lot and I don't know how to keep my hands off the keypad.

Number 5: I won't make that test since no guy has 0, every man on Earth has at least a chance of making a 3Pointer, even Shaq. if open, the CPU players will score in the most of ocassions but it is due to the fact that the CPU ain't taking a long range shot with Shaq if open, instead of that CPU will command Shaq to go to the basket or pass the ball. When in certain plays Shaq or Battie or another center without long range shooting receives outside the box I leave him unmarked and they never pull the trigger.

Number 6: As in NBA Live 2005 you have to tweak the slider here a little bit and that problem is gone.

Final question: The NBA game is not that flawed, is almost not flawed at all, the best ever, gotta play it to understand what I'm talking about. Gotta study but can not keep last night play against Duncan off my head.

[fred.cad]

useful answers nicosantos76, thank you !
i feel a little bit relieved now...i think i will love this game, i will , i really will !!


by the way, Emeka Okafor did in fact play 14 minutes at the olympics, took two shots , missed them both...
i guess USA basketball somewhat underestimated the adversity in athens... there was some of the most fabulous basket-ball games i've seen in a long time (italy-lithunia among them).... but that's another subject

[Heavenly]

The game is much better now and the AI is a lot better. Some more animations are great. I'm playing with Miami and a couple of times I,ve stealed the ball with Wade and made it all the way to de B for a dunk.

Thou there is a big, big time bug that I don't like at all. Players just stop to receive a pass. Only when you inbound the ball the player that receives the pass continues his movement with great animations. And I noticed that if you steal the ball, sometimes the first pass you make, the receiver does the animation and continues, maybe 10% of the time.

It,s annoying cause if you draw a double team and the other player starts going to the basket you pass the ball to him but he stops to receive the pass and that gives the defense time to be right back.

So if you draw the double team and make a great pass, you don't get credit for the great play.
Your still able to make the play somtimes so it,s not impossible but really looks stupid to have the players stop to receive a pass.

I have not noticed the supposed bug of the pc defense catching up to be over welming, I have done plenty of fastbreaks without the pc defenders caching up All Star difficulty.

I have both, Live 05 and ESPN2K5 for the PS2. If you guys want I can give my comparison later

[50first]

I have both, Live 05 and ESPN2K5 for the PS2. If you guys want I can give my comparison later

sure pm me your comparison.