EA Canada Meets Dre Naismith: A LONG Post

Talk about NBA Live 2005 here.

Do you think these ideas would improve the Live franchise?

Yes
17
71%
No
1
4%
You're a certified wacko Dre!
6
25%
 
Total votes : 24

EA Canada Meets Dre Naismith: A LONG Post

Postby John-John Joe on Mon Sep 13, 2004 10:55 pm

First off Andrew, I'm sorry for doing this. I know that this post might not fit the criteria for 2005 issues but this being the most active board I'm simply dying to get some feedback from all these intelligent Live fans. If you have to delete or move could you please at least let me get some critiques first. Trust me, I don't make it a habit of breaking forum rules or ignoring mods. I'd appreciate it greatly!

We've all fantasized I'm sure about the prospect of becoming a consultant for the NBA Live franchise. We all have our own ideas of what we would like to add but frankly there just isn't enough time to implement all of our grand ideas. Here's what I think would be the best additions to the NBA Live franchise.

1. Improving Franchise Mode- Forget everything else that we loyal Live fanatics clamor about, this is single-handedly the most important thing to work on.

Why? Because it's the feature that offers the most replay value. Franchise mode has taken some great steps in the last 3 years but here's what I'd add or change:

- It's great that we'll be able to use actual $$$ in the 2005 version but how about the ability to perform sign and trades? There should also be the mid and low level exceptions available if your team in fact does have them to give. Also in this vein, I'd like the ability to sign players to 10 and 30 day contracts and resign them when I see fit to do so.

- Improving Trade and Free Agent Signing AI would take the franchise mode a step closer to realism. I'm sure we all know what needs to be fixed as far as the free agent signing goes, but what about trades? For trades, a player shouldn't be able to acquire Omeka Okafor from the Bobcats with Bonzi Wells. My guess is that Live will have Bonzi rated higher than the rookie so the tendency is for the cpu to accept that trade based solely on the ratings.

In an improved franchise AI the cpu will take into account several factors when considering pulling the trigger on an impending trade. Taking into account Omeka's age the Bobcats might wnat to hold on to him to build around him for the future.

They should also take into account the value of a big man in a depleted market, not many teams will risk trading big for small anymore unless they are trying to dump contracts. Which brings me to my next idea:

- Franchise Mode should include teams looking to unload stars or big contracts in order to free up the cap. Not to say every team will have a fire-sale mentality but perhaps one or two looking to rid themselves of big/bad contracts or to rebuild through the draft.

This would also account for guys dumping players in their last year under contract, out of fear for getting nothing if they don't resign. You could even ask for assurance from the player and his agent that if you pull the trigger they'll resign with you.

- Practice Mode should and can be an integral party of the franchise experience. For starters, it would be great to have the mode available during a franchise anyway since it currently isn't. But you can use this feature it so many ways:

a) You would be able to bring the whole team into this mode and actually have the ability to scrimmage. This does a number of things, for one how much you practice will actually translate to your team's play in an actual game. A user who skips practice or does it too quickly will have guys who don't execute as well, make the right cuts and set picks and screens on offense, and tire by the fourth quarter.

b) The only thing would be for you to not overwork your players. Finding a healthy balance in anything is key and it most definitely applies here. An overworked team might lead to disgruntled superstars, bad team chemistry and even trade demands. So use your time wisely just like a real NBA coach.

c) Individual practice would still be available to the user and would be executed as a sort of mini-game. The user would have 2 minutes (Very similar to the set-up of Tony Hawk Pro Skater 3) to work on a specific task such as mid range jump shooting, 3 point shooting, freethrow shooting, rebounding, individual defense, shotblocking, passing, etc. Depending upon the level of difficulty used and the grade the cpu gives you for your performance, ratings points for specific abilities can be raised for that specific player.

2. Create-A-Team- This is the second most important feature and would gladly choose this over the new All-Star Weekend Mode. Why? Because again, it adds to the replay value much more.

- The ability to create your own team from scratch. Choose your team colors, nickname, and design your own uniforms and logos. You can then choose from a list provided by the developers of over 100 cities and all the states so that you don't have to always have to be referred to as the "custom team". If feeling extra ambitious, the ability to choose your own venue and it's name would be great also.


- Expansion Mode

1. The ability to add a new twist to Franchise mode, "Expansion Mode". What happens is you create a team, design the uniforms, color scheme, logo, and choose the city/state and nickname. Perhaps the audio database would have over 100 nicknames and 30-45 cities/states to choose from so you don't have to go through your franchise being referred to as "the custom team".

Then you would choose players from the expansion draft and have the option of pulling off some deals with other clubs. You then attempt to navigate your franchise to the promised land, the NBA championship.

But it won't be easy, free agents won't be eager to come and play for you. You'll have to decide whether to let the young talent develop or decide to overpay for 2nd and 3rd tier free agents. This would make for some fun times!

Frathouse Mode

2. Frathouse mode is perfect for the guys who get together, chugging beers and talking trash while going head to head in Live, not all gamers like to play alone. You and the boys can use the create-a-team feature and go into the fantasy draft.

After the cpu decides via the lottery balls who as the first pick etc. the pressures on. You'd better have your gameplan and draft notes in order because you're on the clock! After the draft the cpu will generate a schedule based on the amount of teams in the customized league. 6 people might have a 60 game season, etc.

Essentially an upgrade of tournament mode, the cpu will keep track of stats and will even choose an MVP, sixth man, defensive player of the year, etc. Of course it will all lead to a playoffs and Finals for the ultimate bragging rights.

This mode would also be great for online play. I can already see a whole bunch of custom leagues popping up and guys who are more heart broken over their custom team's dip in the standings than there favorite team in the NBA. Could you imagine the field day our patch experts would have with that here at NLSC? You'd see all sorts of creative uniforms and designer logos, further enhancing the NBA Live experience.

Sure, I have plenty more, especially where gameplay is concerned. But as far as features go, these are the most important.
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Ok, so we've covered what modes I feel would be a great addition to the NBA Live franchise. Now let's assume Executive Producer: Rory Armes read my post and said, "This guy Dre Naismith knows his stuff! I need him on my team to give us some more ideas!" :roll:

The second most thing that needs attention is the audio department.

Crowd AI

I always thought that there should be some serious work in this area. For instance, would a regular season game draw the same crowd reaction as one with playoff implications? How about an All-star game versus a game 7 of the NBA Finals? How about the first quarter versus the fourth quarter with a the home team down by one and possession of the ball with 7 seconds to go?

Obviously, the more important/intense the game is the more the crowd will be into it. EA Canada could reflect these differences by changing their outlook on crowd reactions. If I'm the Wizards and I'm playing a home game against the Hawks the crowd should be much different than that of a playoff atmosphere.

I think how this could be done would be for the cpu to recognize "game important situations" and to react accordingly. These are instances where you should "feel" the audience:

- any game where the home team begins to fall behind by 10-15 points and you get that "nervous rooting-on and cheering" for the hometeam to make a run.

- a game where the home team is facing it's rival, divisional or otherwise. The crowd's excitement should be alot higher because of the opponent.

- a game that could determine whether you reach the playoffs should be very high energy. A playoff game or Finals game should reach a fevered pitch! Fully equipped with "thundersticks' and the like......

- any playoff game or Finals game that is in game 7, the crowd should be absolute pandemonium.

How this is all determined is easier said than done, I realize that. As long as the user gets a different sense of atmosphere and game importance as he progresses through his Franchise Mode game to game through the sound.

His first ever Finals game should be a complete "ear-gasm" of crowd sounds and intensity he hasn't felt up to that point. Further pushing the realism of the gameplay to new heights through "raising the stakes" from an audio standpoint.

Player chatter is cool, but pales in comparison to the forgotten "sixth man" of any NBA game, the crowd atmosphere.

Play-By-Play and Commentary Talent

Now, the marketing department would absolutely laugh in my face over this one, but hear me out. If possible, end the contract with Marv Albert and Mike Fratello and hire Trained Actors.

I know from a marketing standpoint my idea is dumb, Marv and Mike definitely help to sell the game and add to the realism of an NBA broadcast. But here's what I say:

- Quite obviously, you only have Marv and Mike for a certain amount of time. Sure, it's an assumption on my part exactly how the audio gets layed down but by the overall repetiveness there must be time constraints.

- With hiring trained vocal talent with a keen knowledge of the NBA and sports, you not only get them way cheaper but will get much more out of them. By hiring these unknowns to work specifically for EA Canada you can work out a schedule where they can almost quadruple the phrases and insight offered by virtual Marv and Mike.

- You could also have them say tons of names and pronunciations in the vocal booth. Further adding to the realism of having a created player play in the game. Chances are, the majority of gamers won't have their name in the audio database but it does increase the options of naming a player.

- Just imagine how far the play by play could be taken if you were to more than double or triple what Marv and Mike give us now. The "trained actors" could even give their "take" on famous announcers like Howard Cossell, Bob Costas, Joe Buck and the like.

Not to make a mockery but to create their own "vocal character" that is totally believable within the world of NBA Live even though they truly don't exist. Obviously, these actors would also have to have extensive knowledge of broadcasting, sports, the NBA and the game of basketball.

I could name more pluses for unknown commentators but the list would be too long. Use your imagination, them announcing who is in the running for MVP, giving vital statistical information about your created rookie etc. etc. etc.
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Now, as the newest member of the EA Canada development team I've officially made some changes and improvements to the NBA Live franchise. I decided what was most important and went on down the line, here's my newest feature:

Highlight Reel Mode

- This newest addition will take sports gaming into the next millenium. Users now have the ability to save replays during actual gameplay by pausing the game and entering the instant replay feature. They will then be prompted if they wish to save the replay upon leaving the mode.

- After a game is finished you can access your game footage option and watch all of the replays you deemed worthy of saving. You can then manually enter the time, date and a title for each piece of footage if you wish. Like this: EX: "Bosh lays down the law on Big Ben!" You can also delete any footage you no longer wish to keep or wait until you enter the "EA Sports Highlight Reel Studio" to do so.

- In the "EA Sports Highlight Reel Studio" accessed from the main menu you are given the power to make your own highlight packages. A game footage option is now available that's directly connected to your user profile where you can edit all highlights into a slick package.

- Perhaps it would be a bit primitive in design but certainly effective. The user can do the following from the Studio:

a) Cut and splice replay footage where he sees fit. Maybe you don't want the blocked shot that led to the fast break dunk you wish to highlight, you can "splice" that part of the footage away keeping only what you want.

b) Add cool replay effects such as slo-mo, super slo-mo, lighting, black and white, splashes of colors, "glow" around featured player(s), contrasts, etc. as well as the option of having wide or full screen. You can even make things go in reverse for added creativity!

c) Music, whether the users own music via his cpu and XBox hard drive or to the in game music provided by NBA Live. This will really add the flavor!

d) Sound effects, such as car crashes, human laughter, bells, whistles, horns, and "blooper reel" related sounds such as "BOINGGG!" etc. etc.

e) Can decide the length and title of his particular highlight reel. The minimum time for a reel will most likely be 1 minute with a maximum of 4-5 minutes. It all depends on what the memory capabilities will allow.

f) User has a "Vault" where he can keep any discarded or stray footage for later usage. User should be able to keep at least 8-10 minutes of footage that was sent here from the game footage options he accessed during gameplay. The cpu will let you know when you are getting "full" in this regard.

g) While not as exciting, user will also have the option of using "stills" in his footage rather than actual movement. Just click your camera option when viewing a replay and that segment will be available as a "still".

The intuitive and simple design will make it a fun and easy way to experience Live in a whole new way! Can you imagine the kind of contests EA Sports can have with this feature? They might even offer some sort of prize for the best Highlight Reel they receive, and users on line might compete with each other as well.

I can already imagine a section of this very site devoted to user highlight packages for download and viewing purposes with critiques given on the message board. Guys, I'm willing to move to Vancouver, holla at me!
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Before I go into my latest fantasy driven diatribe about my job as the newest member of EA Canada, let's recap quickly what has been covered up to his point shall we?

- Improving trade AI in Franchise Mode
- Including the mid and low level exceptions & 10/30 day contracts
- Incorporating practice mode into Franchise Mode
- The return of the Create-A-Team feature
- Expansion Mode
- Frathouse Mode
- Crowd AI and game specific crowd reactions
- Incorporating actors into the commentary to broaden aural experience and end repetitiveness
- Highlight Reel Mode

So far, so good. Visual Concepts has caught wind of these additions and they're now shaking in their collective boots, some have even tried to recruit me to save their game from the depths of arcade hell but I'm loyal to my colleagues! Now, I'm no fan of cutscenes what-so-ever during or before actual gameplay but this is an absolute must:

Storybook Endings

One of my biggest pet peeves as a long time sports gamer has been the lame endings. There is nothing worse than spending countless hours playing a season/franchise and when you finally reach the promised land named the Larry O'Brien trophy it's about as anti-climactic as a spoiled orgasm.

Live is no different in this regard though in 2004 they at least showed the players getting excited for a few seconds as opposed to just showing a screen with your team's name and trophy like years past.

I've always envied RPG guys who play games like Final Fantasy where they are treated to 10 minute endings and the like. Now, I'm not suggesting that I want a 10 minute ending but a "payoff" would be nice.

- when winning the NBA championship in Franchise mode you'll be treated to cutscenes galore.

- first, the obligatory running around in disbelief and then hugging, fingers raised (we're number 1), while ticker tape falls from the ceiling (if you win at home)

- opposing coach gives congratulatory handshake to your coach and star player (s), as well as certain members of the opposing team.

- EA Canada shells out some $$$ to obtain the rights for Queen's song: "We Are The Champions". They can simply take the money they would throw at say, rapper Fabolous (who is a Mase wannabe anyway) or Jermaine Dupri and put it to MUCH better use! This will be the song playing after you win and throughout the Storybook ending and credits.

- camera pans the crowd (if at home) waving banners, hugging and celebrating in an excited joyful fashion.

- audio from David Stern himself, if you have to pay him or corner him to get this from him then fine. But all it would take is for him to say..."and your NBA Champions <insert team name here> while he hands your Finals MVP the trophy. Your coach and whole team will be there in tow with expressive jovial animations that turn into handclaps and "Wooo!" when the trophy is finally handed over.

- players are wearing NBA Finals caps. It will be at the discretion of the programmers whether they are authentic or not, it's not important that they are just as long as they're in fact wearing caps.

- switch to locker room scene where the players are pouring champagne over each others heads and hugging. You can even get creative and seemingly have champagne hit the "camera" like it does in real life.

- switch to parade scene were the player are in a motorcade. I realize the difficulty this can present, crowd scenes are easier said than done. All that matters is the appearance and illusion of there being a mass of people, the main focus will be close ups of the players waving as they ride by anyway.

- switch to players on a makeshift stage dancing and high-fiving each other to a deafening roar from the crowd. One might even be holding what appears to be a "Super Soaker" spraying the crowd. Screen becomes still, the end. Rolling of credits to the Queen song I eluded to earlier with obligatory picture of team insignia and the Larry O'Brien trophy.

- my vision for this Storybook ending would be for it to run for approximately 2 minutes , giving the gamer a sense of fulfillment and accomplishment never felt before in the world of NBA Live.

- in Season Mode the gamer would receive a shortened version of the Storybook ending that lasts approximately 30 seconds completely omitting everything after David Stern hands the MVP the trophy as well as shortening the other sequences.

- there will be 5 different versions of Storybook mode. Basically they will be the same sequence of events but in one, the opposing superstar might "talk" (whisper in ear) longer than usual to your MVP or players may dance incessantly instead of raising their fingers, etc. etc. Just subtle but noticeable differences really, further pushing the experience to new heights.

I realize that to some gamers this all might be terribly unimportant to them, perhaps they're comfortable with the current 10-15 second ending, But I dare anyone to say that your feeling of success where your franchise is concerned wouldn't be greater with the Storybook ending.

Instead of focusing on things that get skipped incessantly like the pre-game intros and cut scenes of player's reactions to calls, it would be much better to put all that talent, time, energy and money into cutscenes that you KNOW the user wouldn't skip and would watch proudly.
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Okay, so now we've gotten the NBA Live series going in a positive direction. We've got some major additions, but what about the little things?

Camera Options

- this has been one of the biggest pet peeves as of late, guys just aren't happy with the options available. Simple solution? Custom Camera. Now the user can rotate the camera left or right to get the perfect angle.

Also the "height" of the camera is fully adjustable for those who want to change the perspective, whether up over or right on the floor. Zoom in where you can see Shawn Kemp's chili dog stains on his jersey or zoom out where you can make the players look like overpaid insects running and jumping about. The choice is in your hands.

Improving One on One Mode

My mama always told me, "Son, if you're going to do something do it right." One on One was an excellent idea when it was implemented in the 2000 edition but it always left an empty feeling with me. Here's what I'd do to spice things up:

- For one, we need to have some continuity where this mode is concerned. How tedious is it to play someone and then have to leave completely to pick a new match-up? We'll first explore One on One when using an NBA player.

- there will now be a tournament feature. Before starting your game you can choose if you want to only play against shooting guards or small forwards or a mixture of all the positions to keep it interesting. You then decide whether you want a short, medium or long tournament much like when you choose a random schedule in season or franchse mode. Short will be 10 players, Medium is 25 players and Long will be 40 players.

- then you choose not just the difficulty level but the level of talent you'll play against. For instance, ratings of 70 or above, you decide. But of course if you chose "Long" there might not be enough players to fit your criteria, so the cpu will simply go ahead and get players who most fit your specifications.

- the cpu will then generate a list of players which you can edit, picking and choosing your opponents and when you'll face them.

- you can now play One on One similar to a season, saving your progress as you go along. Expect a fantastic cutscene when you are crowned One on One champion the harder the level as well as the longer the tournament the more elaborate the ending. So "Long" on Superstar earns you the longest ending. BTW, in order to acheive endings all games must be to 21, you bloody cheater!

One on One Career Mode

This is where it really gets fun, create a baller and then prepare to take him to war with the NBA's best. It won't be easy though, why? Because in order to enter career mode your player's ratings can be no higher than 60! So choose wisely when deciding where to increase or decrease ratings. All offense? Prepare to get smoked. All D? Your offense will get shutdown in a heart beat. Balance is key, yes indeed.

- ahhh, I know what you're thinking, you'll create a player 7'7 and just shoot over everyone, right? Didn't I tell you to stop cheating? Your player can be no taller than 6'11 and if you do choose a player 6'10 or above don't even dream of giving him a guard's handle. 6'10 or above can only have a maximum dribble rating of 50!

- there will be several ways you can dress your baller. Either you give him an NBA jersey with his name on the back (throwback too!) or you can go ahead and design your own. It's totally up to you. For the less creative/ambitious there will be about 20 default outfits to choose from. And of course head to the NBA store for some hot kicks of your choice!

- now that you've created your baller prepare to enter One on One career mode. You'll be given a two way pager similar to that of the PDA where you can receive messages. You then choose your baller's "environment". the choices are Street, Suburban,and Rural. We'll delve deeper into the significance of all three later.

- now, you'll be transported to your home court. Street- urban area, chain linknets, etc, etc. Suburban- a park in residential area, swings and slides in background etc. Rural- country setting with barn and cows grazing in backgound etc.

From here you'll face 5 generated created ballers created by the CPU. After beating them a guy will approach you and sponsor you for One on One tournaments around the U.S.

Much like my vision of Franchise mode, Practice Mode will be an integral part of this mode as well. Working on your mid range game, etc. etc. Scroll up to see my vision on practice mode and how it would affect a player's ratings. Your sponsor or agent will contact you via the two way pager and have you "travel" to play someone.

It won't be a cutscene but an actual "cheesy" little plane that is really a cursor used to pick your next destination on a map of the U.S. and accepting by pressing the "A" button or whatever corresponds to your controller for "accepting."

- now you'll be playing actual NBA talent. Starting out of course playing against guys 60 to 65 until you boost your ratings, then you'll continue in that fashion until you hit the 90's ratings wise.

As far as the locales you travel to, if you're next opponent is Iverson for example. You'll face him in a park with the Liberty bell in the background. Kobe? Venice Beach, with bodybuilders, chicks on rollerblades, etc all looking on. Ricky Davis? The parking lot of Fenway Park with a make shift hoop and the "Green Monster" in the background. You get the idea I'm sure, very creative boards to break the monotony of just plain parks...

- return "home" anytime and you'll see your environment change. From there you can play pickup games against rendered players for fun/practice, and enjoy the crowds of people who weren't there before. You've now got a loyal following! An NBA player might even show up and surprise you, challenging you on the spot. Don't punk out!

- opponents will page you also to wager ratings points in a quick game to 11, a 3pt shooting contest (if it applies to your baller's abilities), a dunk contest (same applies as dunk contest) and NBA 2Ball.

- now before you start laughing, as wack as the event 2Ball is in all-star festivities I always thought it would translate well to a videogame environment. Think about how it's played and I'm sure you'll agree.

- an opponent might even challenge you to a freethrow competition, who can make the most straight would be the most likely scenario but you can see the different directions this can go in. The whole time wagering points, there is no penalty for not accepting but if you choose to skip all challengers your sponsor may force you to compete for your rep.

- as you advance uo the ladder, the crowds will get bigger and much noisier who watch the matchup.

- in all aside from mini-games/challenges you'll probably face 50 ballers in all. Not having Mike in the game ruined my idea a bit because he would be the obvious choice for the last "boss" that you'd face. Can anyone think of who it should be?

- and naturally, a 2 minute cutscene ending to feel the true merits of being the One on One champ.
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More to come soon, please give your comments on every thing I've implemented! I've purposely stayed away from gameplay issues and things we've discussed in detail or are all on the same page about already. Love them or hate them, let the analysis spring forth NLSC brethren! (You also 2K Twins :D ) Hehehehe, peace Dre.
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Postby cyanide on Mon Sep 13, 2004 11:31 pm

Wow, that's a looong post, and since I'm at school and have class soon, I managed only to read part of the post. So far, I like your ideas, and some have been regurgitated from the wishlist, but it is something that EA could take into more consideration for 2006. I have already posted in another thread that there should be a separate team of experienced "franchise" programmers that focus primarily on the franchise mode of the game. I really like your idea of a storybook ending because that does give the ultimate satisfaction after going through a long season. I gotta head out to class now, but if EA calls you up, remember, I'm only a province away ;)
if you were killed tomorrow, i WOULDNT GO 2 UR FUNERAL CUZ ID B N JAIL 4 KILLIN THE MOTHA FUCKER THAT KILLED U!
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Postby some guy on Tue Sep 14, 2004 6:30 am

nice :applaud:
i like the one on one thing but i think it would be a bit more fun if you took the same concept and played it as a 3 on 3 thing. even with some of the insane dunks and fancy tricks that are available in the allstar mode. i might be wrong but i don't think it would be too hard. just maybe not enough memory.
just my 2cents
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Postby cyanide on Tue Sep 14, 2004 6:48 am

some guy wrote:nice :applaud:
i like the one on one thing but i think it would be a bit more fun if you took the same concept and played it as a 3 on 3 thing. even with some of the insane dunks and fancy tricks that are available in the allstar mode. i might be wrong but i don't think it would be too hard. just maybe not enough memory.
just my 2cents


Actually I'd prefer a 3 on 3 over a 1 on 1 tournament, and it'd be awesome to have created players as a team in the tournament against NBA players (that the user gets to decide as teams, or even random teams).
if you were killed tomorrow, i WOULDNT GO 2 UR FUNERAL CUZ ID B N JAIL 4 KILLIN THE MOTHA FUCKER THAT KILLED U!
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Postby Bill Russell on Tue Sep 14, 2004 7:27 am

All in all a very good post Dre Espn ( :lol: ), I think you could post it in the wishlist section too... Some of your ideas are quite good. (Y)
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Postby Sauru on Tue Sep 14, 2004 7:58 am

i would use the quote button but i would have to delete to much so i just copied and pasted this to comment on....

"In an improved franchise AI the cpu will take into account several factors when considering pulling the trigger on an impending trade. Taking into account Omeka's age the Bobcats might wnat to hold on to him to build around him for the future.

They should also take into account the value of a big man in a depleted market, not many teams will risk trading big for small anymore unless they are trying to dump contracts."


this has been in madden for awhile now and its a HUGE reason the game is so good. you cant trade a 30+ guy for a top rookie, no matter the rateings. infact alot of the time you cant trade 3 players for a top draft pick(well the real ones anyway the cpu generated are a little easier to get). in 2004 i had to use 3 of my best players from my pats team to land mike vick. in nba live i just toss 3 players together with average rateings and try to trade for 1 good player and 2 scrubs and the comp agrees. far to easy to get franchise players.

also you mentioned position haveing influence over the trade. madden has this also. some positions are easy to trade for whiles others the cpu just dont want to let go. i like it and its very realistic.

whichs brings me to this point, why does the cpu usually draft a rookie in a position they dont need? not only that they sign free agents in a position they dont need. then when tradeing i can throw 3 sg's at a team for thier starting center and back up center and they accept. now they have no centers at all and all 3 sg's i sent them are all on the bench cause the one they already had is better than them all.

is these 3 things changed the live dynasty would be amazing.
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Postby havasufalls on Tue Sep 14, 2004 9:07 am

that post is HUGE
DA MAN HAS SPOKEN
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Postby Bird123 on Tue Sep 14, 2004 11:29 am

Sauru wrote:i would use the quote button but i would have to delete to much so i just copied and pasted this to comment on....

"In an improved franchise AI the cpu will take into account several factors when considering pulling the trigger on an impending trade. Taking into account Omeka's age the Bobcats might wnat to hold on to him to build around him for the future.

They should also take into account the value of a big man in a depleted market, not many teams will risk trading big for small anymore unless they are trying to dump contracts."


this has been in madden for awhile now and its a HUGE reason the game is so good. you cant trade a 30+ guy for a top rookie, no matter the rateings. infact alot of the time you cant trade 3 players for a top draft pick(well the real ones anyway the cpu generated are a little easier to get). in 2004 i had to use 3 of my best players from my pats team to land mike vick. in nba live i just toss 3 players together with average rateings and try to trade for 1 good player and 2 scrubs and the comp agrees. far to easy to get franchise players.

also you mentioned position haveing influence over the trade. madden has this also. some positions are easy to trade for whiles others the cpu just dont want to let go. i like it and its very realistic.

whichs brings me to this point, why does the cpu usually draft a rookie in a position they dont need? not only that they sign free agents in a position they dont need. then when tradeing i can throw 3 sg's at a team for thier starting center and back up center and they accept. now they have no centers at all and all 3 sg's i sent them are all on the bench cause the one they already had is better than them all.

is these 3 things changed the live dynasty would be amazing.


That's it right there, get Tirburon's franchise team and let's do this.

Another thing is that, as I've stated before, these consoles are just too limited to implement a lot of these things. They will probably have to wait for the "next generation". While PC'ers could have a lot of these things, we'll be waiting until after Christmas for release.

Dre said it himself that sports like football and baseball are probably just easier to implement these things. They are actually starting to look like real games when you play them, while the basketball games still look like videogames.
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Postby Sauru on Tue Sep 14, 2004 11:47 am

i dont get how football could be easier to make then basketball. maybe its just me but there is alot more going on in football at any given time then in a bball game. not to mention there are more positions and players to balance. i can see baseball being easy to do but i am unsure about football. so i ask seriously, why do you all think bball is harder? cause i will be the first to tell you i dont know much about programming so if you know tell me i am interested.
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Postby GordonBulls on Tue Sep 14, 2004 12:28 pm

pretty nice stuff but just 2 things im gonna comment on:

The create-a-team is nice and all, but come on, its ALL-STAR WEEKEND, thats the biggest replay value, since, GTA? i dont know, something like that

and since NBA Live 2005 is rated E for everyone, i doubt they will put champange on the game, maybe some kool-aid :lol: :cool:
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Postby driveshaft on Tue Sep 14, 2004 12:29 pm

I think football has a lot of stoppages, and quick set plays, whereas basketball is very dynamic, consantly changing, fast paced, and players present a wide array of body movements. What I could never understand is why it took so long for a good baseball game to come out? How hard can that be to program?

Anyway great ideas Dre, I wish more people could post such imaginative ideas. Many I have thought of myself, and others made me go "hmmm"

There is one I'd like to add to. I always thought it would be a great idea to have a career mode where you create your own player in street clothes and take him up a ladder where you eventually face an nba player or two. I don't think it should be MJ but perhaps Rafer Alston or Amare Stoudemire. Here are my additional ideas.

- it should be all arcadish, with crazy dribbling moves, high flying dunks, more aggresive play, maybe even put the ball on fire aka NBA Jam.
- after every win you get to add a few points, earn some money which you can use to buy protein shakes, gym equipment, shooting videos, treadmills, etc. that will improve your skills or make you bulk up, add strength with the downside being you slow down a bit.
- the reward for winning the career should be that you get to take your player into dynasty mode.
- in dynasty mode you will get a few extra bonuses that a normal created player wouldn't get. For instance the commentators will make a few comments regarding your playground past, these comments can vary depending on how good your player is in the NBA like "He's a valuable role player on any team, I bet a lot of teams are kicking themselves for not picking him off the playgrounds" "It's rare for a guy who dominates the playground to come and dominate the league with his wide array of dribble moves and flashy dunks, but he's just unstoppable", etc.
- Other special bonuses may include being able to choose a signature dribbling move, maybe a couple signature dunks, and a signature taunt to make your player more unique in the NBA.
- maybe make the player a fan favourite so he always gets the loudest ovation from the crowd, and maybe give him a special chant or something.
- some other crazy ideas include giving the ability to create a unique persona "JYD type" or "Rodman wierdo thing" or "Shaq cockiness" that the player displays during games.

There are lots of crazy ideas that could be added to this mode, but I think it would be an amazing addition that I would hope to see in 2006, but would probably be more realistic in 2007...

Again great ideas Dre! Tell me what you think!
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Postby Jase23 on Tue Sep 14, 2004 12:38 pm

A long post but a very good post. If all that stuff went in the game i'd probably retire so I could play it all day!!

Well done Dre. I think EA should spend some time with you. You could represent me well I think :)
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Postby Bird123 on Tue Sep 14, 2004 12:42 pm

Sauru wrote:i dont get how football could be easier to make then basketball. maybe its just me but there is alot more going on in football at any given time then in a bball game. not to mention there are more positions and players to balance. i can see baseball being easy to do but i am unsure about football. so i ask seriously, why do you all think bball is harder? cause i will be the first to tell you i dont know much about programming so if you know tell me i am interested.


I don't know much about programming either but i'll give my semi-common sense reasons a shot.

Well for one, basketball seems to have more continous movement. There's hardly any stoppage unless there is a whistle blown. In football there is an executed play, and stoppage, play, stoppage. One play in football is a few seconds at the most, while in basketball you constantly change posessions.

You also have to account for the individualism in basketball, more so than in football. You may have more players in football, but most of thier assignments are very specific, while in basketball you have specific assisnments, but MOST of the time the players deviate from them a great deal. Programmers have to try to account for individual players styles, technique, and just over all things that they would do in a real basketball game for every position, while in football the only position that will probably have a lot of ad-lib is the QB.

We want to see how players play for real, hence the dilemma that programmers have to deal with trying to have totally different player personalities for each NBA player. l You will only see these with a few special players in the NFL.
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Postby Silky Smooth Vlade on Tue Sep 14, 2004 1:50 pm

I agree with every word except the whole 1 on 1 thing. I just don't think 1 on 1 is fun whatsoever. I think it would be a waste of space on the Live CD to put that big of a 1 on 1 game. Kinda of like 24/7 in ESPN. To me, 1 on 1 gets old fast, just dribbling with one player, no passing or anything.

With the exception of the 1on1 I love all of your ideas. You've got some good creative juices flowing, nice work. I'd like to hear some more of your ideas, maybe edit/update this post sometime. And BTW I actually read the entire post :D .
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Postby driveshaft on Tue Sep 14, 2004 2:06 pm

With the exception of the 1on1 I love all of your ideas. You've got some good creative juices flowing, nice work. I'd like to hear some more of your ideas, maybe edit/update this post sometime. And BTW I actually read the entire post :D .


I was thinking of a whole variety of games in Create a Baller mode, King of the Court (1 on 1), 2 on 2, 3 on 3 all the way up to 5 on 5. Just make it a really arcade mode where in the end you can take your created player from the street to the NBA, where he will start off with a 70 ratiing. I mentioned the rewards that you would get for completing this mode and taking your players into franchise, such as unique moves, personality, and have the commentators talk about your created player as a playground legend giving your player a large set of unique comments that are mentioned every few games. Depending on what kind of player you create "a flashy player, a scorer, a dunker, a super-freak... the commentators would change their comments, and combine that with the different moves that you could pick this would add to the replayability of the mode.
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Postby Silky Smooth Vlade on Tue Sep 14, 2004 2:24 pm

driveshaft wrote:I was thinking of a whole variety of games in Create a Baller mode, King of the Court (1 on 1), 2 on 2, 3 on 3 all the way up to 5 on 5. Just make it a really arcade mode where in the end you can take your created player from the street to the NBA, where he will start off with a 70 ratiing. I mentioned the rewards that you would get for completing this mode and taking your players into franchise, such as unique moves, personality, and have the commentators talk about your created player as a playground legend giving your player a large set of unique comments that are mentioned every few games. Depending on what kind of player you create "a flashy player, a scorer, a dunker, a super-freak... the commentators would change their comments, and combine that with the different moves that you could pick this would add to the replayability of the mode.

I can definately see how 2on2 and 3on3 can be fun. Your idea sounds very interesting. If ESPN can add 24/7, I don't see why Live couldn't add this. The more I think about it, this idea keeps seeming better and better. I never thought that Live would have a Dunk Contest, so things like this can happen.
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Postby John-John Joe on Tue Sep 14, 2004 2:47 pm

Thank you so much fellas for even taking the time to read a lenghty post rivaled only by Homer's "The Illiad!" :lol: This is actually a post from the Wishlist that I've been updating for the past few weeks and really needed some feedback. (Thanks again Andrew for giving me comments on the Wishlist and letting this one live here!)

I'll start quoting and posting replies.....
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Postby John-John Joe on Tue Sep 14, 2004 2:53 pm

cyanide wrote:
some guy wrote:nice :applaud:
i like the one on one thing but i think it would be a bit more fun if you took the same concept and played it as a 3 on 3 thing. even with some of the insane dunks and fancy tricks that are available in the allstar mode. i might be wrong but i don't think it would be too hard. just maybe not enough memory.
just my 2cents


Actually I'd prefer a 3 on 3 over a 1 on 1 tournament, and it'd be awesome to have created players as a team in the tournament against NBA players (that the user gets to decide as teams, or even random teams).


I agree, 3 on 3 would absolutely blow away 1 on 1. I guess I wanted to think of a way to improve the existing mode as opposed to scrapping it all together. You could even get "NBA Hoop It Up" as a license, which is a three on three tournament.
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Postby John-John Joe on Tue Sep 14, 2004 3:07 pm

Tales wrote:All in all a very good post Dre Espn ( :lol: ), I think you could post it in the wishlist section too... Some of your ideas are quite good. (Y)


Thank you my brother, this was actually a post from the Wishlist but I was disappointed to only get feedback from Andrew and a few others. I really wanted some critiques!

Sauru wrote:this has been in madden for awhile now and its a HUGE reason the game is so good. you cant trade a 30+ guy for a top rookie, no matter the rateings. infact alot of the time you cant trade 3 players for a top draft pick(well the real ones anyway the cpu generated are a little easier to get). in 2004 i had to use 3 of my best players from my pats team to land mike vick. in nba live i just toss 3 players together with average rateings and try to trade for 1 good player and 2 scrubs and the comp agrees. far to easy to get franchise players.

also you mentioned position haveing influence over the trade. madden has this also. some positions are easy to trade for whiles others the cpu just dont want to let go. i like it and its very realistic.

whichs brings me to this point, why does the cpu usually draft a rookie in a position they dont need? not only that they sign free agents in a position they dont need. then when tradeing i can throw 3 sg's at a team for thier starting center and back up center and they accept. now they have no centers at all and all 3 sg's i sent them are all on the bench cause the one they already had is better than them all.

is these 3 things changed the live dynasty would be amazing.


As a Madden fan myself, I agree totally. I've always wondered if EA Canada ever gave Tiburon a call, perhaps to get some feedback or even to help out in that regard? I think it would behoove them to do so.

havasufalls wrote:that post is HUGE


Scary part is, I actually have more ideas! :shock:

GordonBulls wrote:pretty nice stuff but just 2 things im gonna comment on:

The create-a-team is nice and all, but come on, its ALL-STAR WEEKEND, thats the biggest replay value, since, GTA? i dont know, something like that

and since NBA Live 2005 is rated E for everyone, i doubt they will put champange on the game, maybe some kool-aid :lol: :cool:


Wussup G-Money! I know, All-Star Weekend is going to be huge. I guess I'm a Create-A junkie who'll perhaps change his mind once I start whooping some ass in the dunk contest! No champagne? How about Apple cider? :)

Jase23 wrote:A long post but a very good post. If all that stuff went in the game i'd probably retire so I could play it all day!!

Well done Dre. I think EA should spend some time with you. You could represent me well I think :)


Thanks J, if I had a game with all this stuff I think I'd let personal hygiene, sex and exchanging carbon dioxide for oxygen go completely out the window! :lol:

Silky Smooth Vlade wrote:I agree with every word except the whole 1 on 1 thing. I just don't think 1 on 1 is fun whatsoever. I think it would be a waste of space on the Live CD to put that big of a 1 on 1 game. Kinda of like 24/7 in ESPN. To me, 1 on 1 gets old fast, just dribbling with one player, no passing or anything.

With the exception of the 1on1 I love all of your ideas. You've got some good creative juices flowing, nice work. I'd like to hear some more of your ideas, maybe edit/update this post sometime. And BTW I actually read the entire post :D .


Wussup Smooth, you bring up a great point about 24/7. 3 on 3 would be a vastly superior choice, and I'll definitely be updating soon! Thank you so much for reading this whole post, hopefully you packed a lunch!

driveshaft wrote:
With the exception of the 1on1 I love all of your ideas. You've got some good creative juices flowing, nice work. I'd like to hear some more of your ideas, maybe edit/update this post sometime. And BTW I actually read the entire post :D .


I was thinking of a whole variety of games in Create a Baller mode, King of the Court (1 on 1), 2 on 2, 3 on 3 all the way up to 5 on 5. Just make it a really arcade mode where in the end you can take your created player from the street to the NBA, where he will start off with a 70 ratiing. I mentioned the rewards that you would get for completing this mode and taking your players into franchise, such as unique moves, personality, and have the commentators talk about your created player as a playground legend giving your player a large set of unique comments that are mentioned every few games. Depending on what kind of player you create "a flashy player, a scorer, a dunker, a super-freak... the commentators would change their comments, and combine that with the different moves that you could pick this would add to the replayability of the mode.


That idea is absolutely brilliant! As long as despite the flashy moves it was sim-based, I'd play the hell out of it!
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Postby gut on Tue Sep 14, 2004 3:52 pm

it's really a long post. I am just starting to read the 3rd section.

so far I have some comments (additions) to the Crowd AI & commentary

CROWD

- the crowd should have to "boo" the opponent / referees for bad calls, hard fouls, etc.

- the crowd would be much more excited if their home team is fighting for the playoff.

- the crowd should be able to support the player who plays very very well or breaking some franchise record.

COMMENTARY

Hiring other actors for commentary is a good idea in some aspects

- The "immediate comments" of a professional commentary in a real sports game is NOT NECESSARY in computer game.

what I mean is all the scripts are pre-defined by the development team.
They are only required to "act like" they are in the game, hence, it'll be much more flexible if they hire some others to do.

- Have a supplementary reports by another reporter.

such as when a player injuries, this reporter when tell us his status. Such as will he be out of the game, what kind of injury, etc.

Some of (or all of) the above may not be important but should make the game be more perfect.
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Postby John-John Joe on Tue Sep 14, 2004 4:01 pm

gut wrote:it's really a long post. I am just starting to read the 3rd section.

so far I have some comments (additions) to the Crowd AI & commentary

CROWD

- the crowd should have to "boo" the opponent / referees for bad calls, hard fouls, etc.

- the crowd would be much more excited if their home team is fighting for the playoff.

- the crowd should be able to support the player who plays very very well or breaking some franchise record.

COMMENTARY

Hiring other actors for commentary is a good idea in some aspects

- The "immediate comments" of a professional commentary in a real sports game is NOT NECESSARY in computer game.

what I mean is all the scripts are pre-defined by the development team.
They are only required to "act like" they are in the game, hence, it'll be much more flexible if they hire some others to do.

- Have a supplementary reports by another reporter.

such as when a player injuries, this reporter when tell us his status. Such as will he be out of the game, what kind of injury, etc.

Some of (or all of) the above may not be important but should make the game be more perfect.


Totall agree gut!

- everything you mentioned with the crowd falls directly under improving the AI of the crowd.

- wow, you agree on the actors? In the immortal words of the man I'm trying to fire, "YES"! Did you catch that audio from IGN's in game action videos? Basically the same stuff from last year, time to go into another direction with the commentating. Actors would provide a much broader experience.
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Postby gut on Tue Sep 14, 2004 4:57 pm

Dre Naismith wrote:- wow, you agree on the actors? In the immortal words of the man I'm trying to fire, "YES"! Did you catch that audio from IGN's in game action videos? Basically the same stuff from last year, time to go into another direction with the commentating. Actors would provide a much broader experience.


Yes, I watched those videos and I have the same comments on that (in other thread). They are commentating the SAME from last year.

Not saying that they are bad, but it's bored to hear the whole same set of stuff one more year. And as what you've mentioned before, using some others (maybe actors) can expand the vocal booth. That could make the commentary be more unique of everygame.

of course in the marketing point of view, it may not be too possible. :cry:
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Postby Metsis on Tue Sep 14, 2004 8:00 pm

gut wrote:Yes, I watched those videos and I have the same comments on that (in other thread). They are commentating the SAME from last year.

Not saying that they are bad, but it's bored to hear the whole same set of stuff one more year. And as what you've mentioned before, using some others (maybe actors) can expand the vocal booth. That could make the commentary be more unique of everygame.

of course in the marketing point of view, it may not be too possible. :cry:


I threw out the idea when we were doing the wishlist for 2005 or was it 2004... An utopistic idea that I knew would be hard to do, if not impossible.

What that idea was... Well pretty much go the ESPN way... Well sort of, but I didn't know anything about ESPN back then so this was fresh and new. Make each game seem like it was going on the television (I believe Live 98 had the broadcast games marked in the calendar so this expanded on that idea)... Back to business... Have the overlay graphics change with different "broadcasts" and as different stations have different commentators etc. have different commentators do the color-commentary on games from their network.

That would mean that you would have atleast 3-4 different sets of commentary and that would bring freshness to the game and a variating look on the game as it would different graphics depending on which channel was broadcasting it.

This was an idea to make it feel more real... Tough to do, but maybe ESPN stole this idea from me back then... Or someone saw it on the boards here and inserted into an ESPN wishlist on some other site.
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Postby Jase23 on Tue Sep 14, 2004 9:15 pm

Jase23 wrote:A long post but a very good post. If all that stuff went in the game i'd probably retire so I could play it all day!!

Well done Dre. I think EA should spend some time with you. You could represent me well I think :)

Dre Naismith wrote:Thanks J, if I had a game with all this stuff I think I'd let personal hygiene, sex and exchanging carbon dioxide for oxygen go completely out the window! :lol:



Hell no Dre! Don't give up the sex man!! Thats what the half time break is for!!
:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Postby guan lu on Wed Sep 15, 2004 3:14 pm

gut wrote:- Have a supplementary reports by another reporter.

such as when a player injuries, this reporter when tell us his status. Such as will he be out of the game, what kind of injury, etc.

Some of (or all of) the above may not be important but should make the game be more perfect.


yep that's great..
and doesn't the nba have interviews at the half of key players, before they get to the dugout or something? so maybe since EA already has the key player stat, maybe they could have a shot of a courtside reporter interviewing this key player at the half. i know, this could get really hard, but maybe they could just have subtitles instead of having them really talk it out.

all in all, dre, and all you other guys in this thread, wonderful posts!
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