Mr. Shane's NBA Live Review *updated - 10-18-03 (Dynasty)*

Discussion about NBA Live 2004.

Mr. Shane's NBA Live Review *updated - 10-18-03 (Dynasty)*

Postby Wall St. Peon on Fri Oct 17, 2003 5:49 pm

I've played ten games on All-Star, 8 minute quarters (this is my first year on the PS2, and the first year with an actual controller as opposed to keyboard), and I'm thrilled to death with this game. There are some kinks in it, but it is by far the best basketball game I've EVER played.

I'll follow the format of someone else, sort of, anyway:

:arrow: Graphics:

The graphics could be better, but the PS2 is definately starting to show its age. I'm dying to see it on my Geforce4 (I'm getting it for PC for patching purposes...gotta kill time somehow). However, the animations are smooth, the lighting great, and the arenas are wonderful...I finally noticed the reflection of the jumbotron on the floor, along with the roof, banners, and so on, on the floor tonight as I was playing.

:arrow: Frontend:

The frontend's good, but it could definately be better. I'm a hardcore NCAA 2004 player (I got to be a level 31 EA Sports gamer on that game alone), and I love the fact that after you play a game, it automatically saves everything - profile, dynasty, settings, and so on - if you want. It's a pain in the ass to go to the saved game thing, retype your saved game title everytime (or profile), and then save it.

Speaking of the typing, it sucks. Again, EA Canada should take a cue from the Tiburon team and implement the same keyboard element in their game. I mean, come on, who wants to go down to "back" when there's like 8 buttons they're not using? I suppose it's a good sign for PC users, as it's more at us, but then again, maybe they just assume everyone who has a PS2 dropped the $100 or whatever for a mouse and keyboard for it...

The menus are generally easy to use, if you're used to PS2 games, so that's not a problem. I wish they had done something like NCAA did with Sports Illustrated (I saw "Inside Stuff" when I started my dynastay, why not keep it up?). Other than that, the frontend is much improved.

:arrow: Music:

I adore the music. I mean, they sprung for Outkast, Jermaine Dupri, Chingy (even though he sucks), Twista, Mobb Deep, and so on. Great!

:arrow: Controls:

The controls were good, very smooth, although it took me a second to get used to the two shooting buttons. The running is really strange as well, but again, you can get used to it, so it's minor. It'd be nice to have a bit more control over the freestyle, as you may mean to do a crossover of some sort (up and left), and you end up doing a spin move out of bounds. Other than that, the control is intuitive and smart. Oh, and you can DIVE for balls...I don't think anyone's mentioned that. Don't ask me how, I figured it out once and then forgot.

:arrow: Sliders:

The sliders are what makes the game great. I can change everything to my liking (although, I can't seem to make the computer call blocks more than charges :/), and I run the game at about 35 for speed...the pace seems the most realistic. When I move up to the next level, it WILL be perfect...I'm blowing out the computer right now, but I still get spanked on the next level. However, in the games where I got my shit rocked, it was probably incredibly realistic to NBA style. The computer had more points than it should, but that's because of the way I was playing the game - not the computer.

:arrow: Dynasty Mode:

Contrary to what others are saying, I like the dynasty mode quite a bit. Injuries occur ingame,and that's a great change. They're minor injuries, too, so it's a lot more realistic...a guy will love for a quarter, a half quarter, 5 minutes, whatever, and then come back. A strange thing I noticed, and it was mentioned in another post, is that there is no starting lineup in the dynsaty games...there is in the 'play now' mode, but not in the dynasty. They focus on one player, then show that player ripping shit up on the other team (even though they haven't played?)...it just doesn't make sense. I suppose it could be like previous footage against the other team, but that's a strange assumption for EA to make, that we would pick up on that. *shrug*

I haven't tried trading yet, so I can't comment on that. I'm going to try to move some of the worthless players on my team for another point guard, maybe like Kirk Hinrich or something. Someone was complaining about draft picks, I remember, but really, how often do teams get draft picks? They are generally packaged in blockbuster deals to even them out. I also haven't gone to the offseason.

It may have been just me, but I had signed Kenny Anderson (he's still in the FA pool) to backup Alvin, and then he was outplaying Alvin, so I benched him and Jerome Williams for Kenny and Chris Bosh...the next few games, it seemed like Alvin and Jerome were playing better. JYD had a couple double doubles off the bench, and Alvin was a huge scoring lift. Murray over Peterson is a no-brainer...I moved VC to guard. Anyway, I digress...

:arrow: My NBA Live:

I know some people have complained, but I really like this feature (partly cause I got 1000 pts because of NCAA football ;)) It encourages you to play every game, not just a few, simming, and then the playoffs. If you get bored, you can just go for the goals; for instance, shooting 100% for the game (min. 20 shots), making four threes in a quarter, scoring 20 pts, 30 pts, 40 pts, 50 pts, and so on. When you earn those, you get points to unlock stuff. It's a clever way to get replay value out of something. That's just me, though. ;)

:arrow: Create-a-Player:

Create-a-player sucks hard this year. While the hair styles are better and are actually named, the faces are horrible, and you can't modify the headshape. There's only like 30 faces, so that'll be a problem for people making rosters. You can only use headbands you unlock, which is kind of silly, but whatever. The shoes are decent, I still think they're the same texture size, as they look as blurry as last year. They use high-res ones in the NBA Store, and they look pretty damned good, but they look shitty ingame. Hopefully this is just because of the constraints of the PS2, and we'll be able to up the resolution so we can tell what the shoes actually are.

:arrow: I'm gonna split the gameplay up into offense and defense.

:arrow: Offense:

This is much improved. The players react ten times better to defensive pressure, and if you're doubled, they generally make pretty good decisions about cutting to the hoop or running to an open spot. The jump-stop can be over-used, but if you jump-stop into traffic, the odds are pretty good you'll be stopped and then be doubled and forced to pass out, or you'll just miss the layup or dunk because of all the contact and pressure.

You can change your shot in midair, apparently, if you double tap the dunk/layup button...a double clutch. Also, you can draw contact and go to the free throw line, which I love. In the past, it's been incredibly difficult to get to the line. Against Houston, I shot 12 freethrows with Carter alone - in the FIRST QUARTER. I'm loving it! Speaking of freethrows, the new free-throw meter is the same, but it's new and much cooler. Just a small touch to make the game more fun. Oh, in the game against Houston, I got HAMMERED every time I went into the lane when Eddie Griffin and Yao were there. Yao swatted for of A. D's shots, and I had a great deal of trouble scoring on him.

Midrange jumpers can be made, but they're more difficult because of quick defensive rotation on the part of the computer - just like real life. Mid-ranges can only really be made when you're open, but the star players can make them with a hand in their face, which is also realistic. Three pointers are the same....pretty much money when you're open with anyone with an above average rating, not so much with a hand in your face. You really have to learn to pass out of double teams, but the computer generally doesn't leave the open man too open and can get a hand up.

The computer offense needs some work. I played the Lakers, and GP and Karl Malone had the most points. Shaq only took like 8 shots, and Kobe finished with only 18, partly because he got in foul trouble, partly because he wasn't active in the offense. The shot distribution is junk, obviously. Houston was the one team I've played that the star players (Ming and Francis) were the one's who stepped it up. Ming was dominating me when he had the ball, and Francis was whooping my ass. I was up by 15 at the half, and they tied it late in the third, and then I was able to pull away for a 20 point win.

Their spacing and ball movement is good, however. The only real problems with the computer offense is that they don't utilize their best players. I held Spree to 4 points....on 2/4 shooting. Sam Cassell had 20 some points in 20 some shots, and KG only had 17, but he almost pulled a triple double. And no, it wasn't Sam jacking up threes, it was him getting the ball on the fast break from KG and then driving to the hoop. They beat me...

A complaint of mine on offense is that if the ball gets stripped, the offensive players just stand there and the guy who lost the ball seems to be stunned. It kinda sucks...

:arrow: Defense:

I'll start with the computer D. It's not too good on the level I'm playing, as I can drive into the lane fairly easily. However, on the two games I played on a higher level, it was hard as hell to score. They do rotate well to the ball, and they double team at appropriate times. The computer never really gets called for reaches, but then again, neither do I. The computer's fairly physical, bumping me and denying position. I'm not that good at posting up (haven't gotten used to the controls quite yet), so I can't tell you how good the post defense is. A double usually comes over when I pass it into the low block, which is pretty realistic and makes it harder to score.

As for the human D, I've never had so much fun playing defense. The animations are great; if the defensive player bumps into the offensive player they put their hands up. The analog stick makes it super easy to stay in front of your player, denying them position. The double teams are a blast to pull off, as most of the time you just force the pass, and it comes in handy as hell to set a double on say, T-Mac, as the rest of his team isn't that offensively proficient: make his teammates beat you. The double's aren't overly effective, though, which is good...steals are very rare, and when they happen, it's usually when a guard and a big man double a big man, or when a point guard strips the ball from the other point when they do something careless. It's really, really realistic when it comes to steals.

As for blocks...well...blocks are hard for the human, but the computer blocks quite a few shots...like 6 a game against me, which definately isn't bad, except for the fact that they're generally layups and dunks. However, I'm going to give the game the benefit of the doubt and just leave it at the fact that I still suck hard at this game. :)

All in all, this is a MUCH better game than Live 2003. While there may be some glitches in the dynasty, those can be overlooked for the quality of the actual gameplay. If you want to just be a GM, get a game that lets you just be a GM, or buy the PC version, which might be patched. I can't really comment on the dynasty mode, as I haven't tried everything, but once I do, I'll add to the post.

:arrow: Dynasty
I really hate to say this, but the dynasty mode in Live this year is horrible, probably one of the worst of its kind, if not the worst. Where do I begin?

The dynasty mode feels incomplete. From the Inside Stuff magazine covers (but no content, ala NCAA 2004) to the free agent bug to the totally FUCKED UP stats to the ability to save your Bio after each game, but not your dynasty, and it's an incredibly disappointing experience.

First things first, the preseason training. What does this do? The only "results" I've had was 0's all the way across the board on offense, defense, and shooting, and then NEGATIVE results on the conditioning; my players actually got worse! I mean, what does this training do? And then the cutscenes...wooooo....cutscenes....if you're going to put a training thing in, you should do it like Madden's and actually have your ability at the game have something to do the results of the training...

The Inside Stuff magazine could have been implemented like Sports Illustrated in NCAA and have you be able to see who's tearing up the league, who the top MVP candidates are, and so on, as opposed to a random cover three times over the course of a season. If it serves no purpose, why the hell is it there? Oooo, a magazine cover...:roll:

As for the GM's desk, if you're the GM, shouldn't the roster stuff be in that section, as opposed to separate? It doesn't really make sense. Just an observation...

I played about 30 games, then I decided to try trading and simming. I couldn't get any teams to take any trades I offered, with and without draft picks, but I did get Brad Miller from Sacramento for Mo Pete. Pretty good deal, as I was playing him off the bench. Anyway, so I had Brad Miller, didn't make the playoffs because of an absurd amount of injuries to about everyone, so I went to the offseason and drafted a rookie.

Which brings me, yet again, to the cutscenes. I mean, they have the guy you draft by himself in like auditorium seating...have they ever seen the draft? They sit at tables, not in rows...anyway, he doesn't even go up on the stage, and it's the same no matter who you draft, there's no variety. So what was the point?

They should have scouting points and results from pre-draft camps, not the crap they've had for what, the last five years? Add some depth, then add cut scenes...

Now on to the free agent signing. If you go to it, then push start to move on, and then go to the next season, it STILL doesn't matter; you can just go to the free agent pool and sign any free agent for the minimum. Tracy McGrady was available, so I signed him, along with Brent Barry, Richard Jefferson, and Stephen Jackson. My lineup was this:

C - Miller
PF- Bosh
SF- TMac
SG- VC
PG- Willie Hains

SF/PF R. Jefferson
PF/SF S. Jackson
SG/PG B. Barry
PG/SG A. Williams
C Moiso

Alright, I played a game with this team and the stats were something like VC 25 4 6, TMac 23 7 5, Bosh 21 11 2bs, Miller 14 8, Hains 12 12 2st - all very realistic stats (for a normal game, this was 8 min. quarters on All-Star...haven't moved up to Superstar yet). If that team was assembled, the stats could very well be that way. My bench didn't score much, I think Jefferson had six points and the rest that played had maybe a basket.

Now, I simulated the rest of the season and only won 42 games. I had a couple major injuries to Hains, but that should matter as I had Williams and Barry to step in. The reason, I'm thinking, for this to happen is because Vince Carter averaged 19ppg and 8rpg (!), Brad Miller had 17ppg, and TMac had 15ppg. What the fuck.

I made it to the playoffs, of course, and went out in the second round because TMac broke his foot (simming). I noticed something strange about the playoffs....the Lakers weren't htere, and they still had GP, Kobe, and Shaq. So after I went through the offseason, I went and checked their stats. Kobe averaged 15 ppg, and he's the highest rated player in the game. What the fuck. I went through other superstars, to see if it was similar. Allen Iverson averaged 12ppg and Glen Robinson 19ppg! What the fuck?! The guy who lead the league in scoring only scored 23ppg, and the second place was 18ppg. Oh yeah, and did I mention that I sim stats for 12 minute quarters?

The stats are trash.

Hopefully they'll fix some of the crap for the dynasty for hte PC version, but I kind of doubt it. The dynasty has lots of promise, but it was completely rushed and left unfinished. Thank god this game plays like a dream and is a ton of fun, otherwise I'd want to shove my copy the gamestop clerk's ass...
Last edited by Wall St. Peon on Mon Oct 20, 2003 11:55 am, edited 6 times in total.
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Postby chipper on Fri Oct 17, 2003 6:17 pm

Nice Review (Y)
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Postby Swoosh on Sat Oct 18, 2003 12:48 am

gotta feelin' if shane can dig it, i will dig it :wink:
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Postby Nick on Sat Oct 18, 2003 2:41 am

Fan-didly-tastic review Shane. I feel like i already know the game and i haven't even played it. GREAT!

It better come out on PC, cos i'm gonna upgrade my computer soon! :P
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Postby Gottlieb on Sat Oct 18, 2003 3:50 am

great report, i cant wait to play it...
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Postby Pirate on Sat Oct 18, 2003 4:09 am

Thanks Mr. Shane. The review was very thorough. I too am excited about the sliders.
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Postby Eugene on Sat Oct 18, 2003 4:37 am

Excellent review, Shane.

NBA Live 2004 has gotten me positively giddy, driving me to post 2 to 3 times a day (for those of you who know me from the NBA section, I don't post that often if at all).

How is the endgame strategy for the computer? Is there a strategy at all, or does it still take inordinate amount of threes. Does the computer intentionally foul you?

Thanks in advance,

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Postby AznBBoyX on Sat Oct 18, 2003 5:07 am

Hey Shane, you said you played with Carter against Houston. Since Carter is better than most players, can he take the contact and stuff and still dunk the ball hard on someone?
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Re: Mr. Shane's NBA Live Review *updated*

Postby Mook Dog on Sat Oct 18, 2003 5:13 am

Mr. Shane wrote::arrow: Graphics:

The graphics could be better, but the PS2 is definately starting to show its age. I'm dying to see it on my Geforce4 (I'm getting it for PC for patching purposes...gotta kill time somehow). However, the animations are smooth, the lighting great, and the arenas are wonderful...I finally noticed the reflection of the jumbotron on the floor, along with the roof, banners, and so on, on the floor tonight as I was playing.

:arrow: Create-a-Player:

Create-a-player sucks hard this year. While the hair styles are better and are actually named, the faces are horrible, and you can't modify the headshape. There's only like 30 faces, so that'll be a problem for people making rosters. You can only use headbands you unlock, which is kind of silly, but whatever. The shoes are decent, I still think they're the same texture size, as they look as blurry as last year. They use high-res ones in the NBA Store, and they look pretty damned good, but they look shitty ingame. Hopefully this is just because of the constraints of the PS2, and we'll be able to up the resolution so we can tell what the shoes actually are.




Great review Mr. Shane,

Graphics are one of the low points of the game. Although the game play makes up for it ten-fold. I don't blame it on the age of the PS2 however, I blame it more on lack of programming and time from EA. I mean just compare the graphics for Madden 04 and it's clearly night and day.

The other major complaint I would have is the dynasty mode. There are too many cut scenes and not enough gamer involvement with trainging camp ala Madden. I just don't like that fact that all you have to do his set a point limit on what part of your team's abilities you would like to improve on and then watch the cuts scenes and they automatically improve. What I like about Madden is that the gamer is in control of the outcome of said training sessions and that determines whether or not your player impoves or not.

I do think it is a vast improvement over last year's version.

Eugene wrote:How is the endgame strategy for the computer? Is there a strategy at all, or does it still take inordinate amount of threes. Does the computer intentionally foul you?


To answer Eugene's question, in the games that I was up by 8 or more points, I found the CPU players fouling intentionally in the fourth quarter. Also CPU players taking a quick shot with 35 or so seconds in the earlier quarters in hopes of getting a 2 for 1 possession.


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Postby Tony on Sat Oct 18, 2003 5:32 am

Hefty wrote:The shoes are decent, I still think they're the same texture size, as they look as blurry as last year. They use high-res ones in the NBA Store, and they look pretty damned good, but they look shitty ingame. Hopefully this is just because of the constraints of the PS2, and we'll be able to up the resolution so we can tell what the shoes actually are.
This is what grabbed my attention Shane. If they use high-res looking ones in NBA store, then they probably use the lower res ones ingame because of hardware limitations... thus meaning, on PC, they would probably be kept in high res, since PC mostly hasn't got any limits...

good news to PC users, and shoe patchers (still hoping they kept the last years shoe format, so we can recycle the already-made shoe textures).

just hoping PC users don't get screwed, and the game actually gets released in november.

nice review (Y)
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Re: Mr. Shane's NBA Live Review *updated*

Postby the_yellow_dart on Sat Oct 18, 2003 7:06 am

Mook Dog wrote: in the games that I was up by 8 or more points, I found the CPU players fouling intentionally in the fourth quarter. Also CPU players taking a quick shot with 35 or so seconds in the earlier quarters in hopes of getting a 2 for 1 possession.

thank god. Someone at EA must have lost the remote while trying to change the channel to Lifetimes original miniseries "Navigating the Heart" and accidently saw part of a basketball game... :roll:
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Re: Mr. Shane's NBA Live Review *updated*

Postby Colin on Sat Oct 18, 2003 11:50 am

Thanks a bunch Shane, glad to see you don't Dynasty is that bad. It is still better than last year obviously which I enjoyed regardless.
Eugene wrote:How is the endgame strategy for the computer? Is there a strategy at all, or does it still take inordinate amount of threes. Does the computer intentionally foul you?


To answer Eugene's question, in the games that I was up by 8 or more points, I found the CPU players fouling intentionally in the fourth quarter. Also CPU players taking a quick shot with 35 or so seconds in the earlier quarters in hopes of getting a 2 for 1 possession.[/quote]
Oh goody. I'm giddy like Eugene.
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Postby Nel on Sat Oct 18, 2003 2:26 pm

Nice review. Its good to hear that the gameplay is better this year. (Y)
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Postby Wall St. Peon on Sat Oct 18, 2003 6:44 pm

People were complaining about the draft pick thing...well, I simmed the rest of my season to check stuff out, and lo and behold, Utah offered me their first round pick for Moiso, and I took it. The computer offered me the trade. I didn't try trading anyone on my own, haven't tried that yet, but I will sometime when I'm sober enough to pay attention to what's going on...
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Postby EddyMVP on Sat Oct 18, 2003 7:25 pm

How do you trade your draft pick?
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Postby EddyMVP on Sat Oct 18, 2003 7:28 pm

EddyMVP wrote:How do you trade your draft pick?


Nevermind. I figured it out.
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Postby aussiebrett on Sat Oct 18, 2003 9:46 pm

Mr Shane, FANTASTIC review my friend. Great to see haeps of people on this site taking their time to pass on their thoughts. Everyone has different priorities, and it's also refreshing to see someone who is not fixated on the Free Agents bug. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but if the problem exists when you simulate the FA signing period, then why sim it?!?!?! Why are people simming anyway? I want to have the hands-on aspect of the off-season. Can someone please confirm or deny the fact that the problem is avoided by not simming? Thanks in advance.
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Postby MPAndy on Sun Oct 19, 2003 1:47 am

Nice Review. Live is certainly a good game this year, a few kinks, but what game doesn't have those.
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Postby Wall St. Peon on Mon Oct 20, 2003 12:53 pm

just a spam to get this moved to the top...
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Postby Eugene on Mon Oct 20, 2003 2:59 pm

Wow... that sounds like a serious problem. And yet...

You're the first and only one so far to mention that serious a problem, which leads me to believe that 1. It's just a freak accident with your copy of the game; 2. It's happening but everyone else has either overlooked it or ignoring it; or 3. The most viable and potentially frustrating, changing the sliders for each game actually impacts the statistics for the simulated games.

Here's the thing, I haven't seen problems like that in any of the videos, when they are giving out the awards.

So, my question is, Shane, did you make any significant changes to your sliders, as far as shooting and defense was concerned? Was scoring stat the only thing that was out of whack? Were the other stats accurate?

Any elaboration you can offer will be much appreciated.

And to think... I just pre-ordered the PC version. I'm not very happy at all right now.

Please, Shane, hit me with some good news...

All the best,

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Postby Nick on Mon Oct 20, 2003 5:16 pm

Man, i'm hopin' Shane just bought a freak copy of the game. :cry:

Well, if what Shane says happens to PC versions, looks like DSTATS will have to be removed... *sigh*
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Postby Bill Russell on Mon Oct 20, 2003 8:04 pm

Uh, talk about getting scared...
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Postby EGarrett on Mon Oct 20, 2003 10:26 pm

Tracy McGrady averages 16 points per in my franchise. I'm thinking that maybe they removed Dstats and are just going by ratings which sometimes causes that.

Also...about 90% of the compter generated players average arond 14 points, 4 rebounds and 4 assists when simulating. I posted earlier about this...
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Postby Wall St. Peon on Tue Oct 21, 2003 1:32 am

Eugene,

Yes, I did modify the sliders some, mostly to knock down shooting percentages, steals, and blocks. Some of the other stats are strange as well...for instance, VC was averaging almost 8 rebounds a game, which could happen, I guess, but it shouldn't with Chris Bosh and Brad Miller up front.

We may be in luck with the PC version, though, as we may be able to add D-Stats. However, if it is simply going by the ratings (which I'm thinking it is), then TMac should be averaging more than 16ppg, and so should Kobe Bryant, Shaquille O'Neail, and Allen Iverson. Perhaps the sliders are affecting the ratings, but it shouldn't....Kobe's the highest rated player in the game, and if it was going by ratings, then he should have been scoring 30 a game. The stats, however, were right for the first season. Also, isn't TMac's contract through like 2007? It was up in after the 2004-2005 season for me. Maybe my copy's somehow screwed up. :/

The thing that I don't understand is how their ratings can be so perfect while actually playing the game, but they're crap while simulating. I think EA totally missed the boat on the dynasty, but got about 99% on the game play. Regardless of the dynasty for the PC, this is bar none the best bball simulation you can get. I also have the PC version preordered, and I'm still happy with the PS2 version...I just play more games than I sim. I've actually probably played the same amount of games in a week as I had in the first two months I had Live 2003. The gameplay is great, and EG will back me up on this one. I so wished they hadn't screwed up the dynasty, though. I think if EA's paying attention to the boards at all, they'll be able to see this...Andrew, send EA your D-stats ;)....if they have the D-stats from last year's game, then they could easily add a field to the DBF file to fix the stats...or they could use Andrews, I'm sure he wouldn't mind.

Hopefully the free agent signing is fixed for the PC. At least this year, the human can sign the superstars for the minimum, as opposed to just the computer. I can live with the screwy stats, it's not realistic, but at least they're consistant with how the league is. It may be something else entirely, that the computer's simming for 8 minute quarters, but I don't know. I'm disappointed with the dynasty, and I know a lot of people love that aspect of the game, but you can still go through with it and just play every game. Then at least your stats will be accurate.
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Postby Andrew on Tue Oct 21, 2003 10:47 pm

My Dstats are just the 2002/2003 season statistics (except for a couple of players who had off-years or did not play), nothing special about them. If I update Dstats through the course of the year, I usually use the projected stats from ESPN.com's playerfiles (or calculate them myself).
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